Back to the archives - Ep. 102 Christopher Korfias 2nd Commando Regiment

SPEAKER_00 2:01

It's time for the Zero Limits Podcast, hosted by Australian veterans. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world, we'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you and the kick to complete any goal you set your mind to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Not only as a Choc or in the regular inventory. Spent a bit of time in the second commando regiment. His name is Christopher Corfeus, aka Cornflakes, which we'll definitely touch on the Cornflakes nickname down the track. Chris, mate, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Good, thanks, mate. Thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

No, I appreciate you, mate. Uh here in the studio, which is good. You've come up from Sydney, Newcastle.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Graced you with my presence.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Um just turn that mic into your up closer.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

That's better, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

It's like a big black dildo. Big black thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

You're telling the story, mate. Is that what goes on downstairs or a bathroom? That's the rape dungeon mode. Yeah, for we've come here, listeners. It's it's shady down there. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Now, mate, uh yeah, again, mate, welcome, welcome to the to the studio and thanks for giving me your time. We've been talking about it for fucking a couple of months now, and uh I was just lining up times, and you were living somewhere else, not down in Sydney, so it kind of made it a little bit hard. And I wanted you here in the studio. It's just a better feel for the podcast. But uh, mate, yeah, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Thanks. It's like I said, it's a pleasure to be here and uh thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

And I intentionally did it to try and get to episode 100, but Travis beat you trying to beat me to it. So he beat you out. Um all right, mate. So let's let's crack off right from the start. Before we want to talk about your mill life and uh post uh mill life, let's let's find out two young cornflakes was growing up. Now he's a young Greek boy. Orthodox. Yeah, still a great Well, not quite.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Old man's Greek and and Mum's Australian. Um old man was born here, so yeah, we're not particularly traditional or anything like that. They didn't make me go to Greek school because the old the old man wasn't a fan of that, so it didn't make us kids go, and it was by the time I got old enough to realise it would have been nice to be able to s communicate with my family in Greece. It's a bit a bit too late. I've tried, yeah, but it's hard to learn. I I my my bra I guess my brain doesn't work very well for um too many traumatic brain injuries, maybe with uh picking up a picking up uh uh another language other than like the odd word. But I I I'm trying. Um so where it all began. Yeah what you want. Yeah, give us a rundown. Young young cornflakes. Quickly on that, what it what have her audacity. Yes. An Arabic woman probably can't even pronounce her last name.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Has the audacity to So in Baghdad when we're on the gig in Baghdad uh at the embassy had this um office administrator and she could not say call fears to save a life, and she's like cornflakes? I'm like, yeah, that's it. So cornflakes are stuck. Uh I don't mind as well. I said to a few people they're like, What's that mean? Like, well I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah, it's yeah, it's probably a shit story, really. Um it's not the first time, it's certainly better than some of the things I've been caught in the past. Uh you know, so yeah, I I I thought it was pretty funny, but uh just the irony. The irony. Well yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

So give us a give us a rundown, uh younger life growing up, born 1985, of course, in Sydney. You know it, mate.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

In your Adidas tracksuit. That's how I came out legs first and dressed in a matching Adidas tracksuit. No, so I was uh born in Sydney in the south there. So uh for those that maybe unfamiliar with with the with the city, uh the St. George area, if you're more familiar with the National Rugby League, the St. George area there. I'm not quite the shire, so I was north of the George River, Port Hack and River. Um only just the eldest of of four. Yeah, grew up the entire time in in Sydney, moved, you know, the odd house and that sort of thing, but you know, sort of just surrounding suburbs, never anything really dramatic. Um went to high school um in the local area, finished high school. You know, I wanted definitely by that point you wanted I wanted to join join the army and almost certainly full time, but uh wasn't old enough and I I think it I was you know I was even only I was only just 17 when I when I finished high school, I only just turned 17. So I could have left in year 10 and just you know pursued some some sort of like part-time job. No offense to anyone that you know may have done that, but I wasn't interested in just working at McDonald's for a couple of years. Um so I figured I've got the time, I've got the opportunity, you know, I'm at least smart enough to hang around in school. Why not do that? And I got told of that, you know, I'm sure you were the same, Matt. Everyone said you've got to finish your HSC or you know the equivalent. Um otherwise you won't be able to get a job, which isn't entirely true, isn't entirely untrue either. I mean it all depends on what you are gonna do. Um but I had no interest in going to university or anything like that, and I I would say a little less interest nowadays. You know, maybe you should use my time a little more wisely and learn uh study something. Plenty of mates had done that. But you know, um I just I'd solely focused on uh joining the army, joining the infantry and just just getting amongst it. Yeah, right. And just back what school did you go to? Uh Pigos to High School, and then uh as I was finishing year ten, uh they basically changed the structure so that our school, which is it was co-ed school, and then the local boys and the local girls' high school would fit finish at year ten, and the last two years we'd go to this campus in Oatley, which uh used to be uh a university of something, which was just this derelict building. It was crazy actually. So when they just when they uh announced that, they put us all on buses one day and took us to this place. And literally it was just this old building that had nothing in it, and they just let a whole lot of fifteen year old fourteen, fifteen year old teenagers run amok. There were people like there was a lift over this, it was this five-level building. There's people in the lift like pushing furniture out. There was tables and chairs that went over the off the roof into the pond that was that was outside and all sorts of just absolute mayhem, you know, people running through the library just throwing those old library card, you know, catalogue cards everywhere. And I was just thinking to myself, like, what what were they thinking? Um yeah. And then we went there for the last two years of high school. So I was you know, the uh the first class to graduate from from uh Oatley High. I'm also uh the first cross country under 17 champion there as well. Yeah, yeah, right. That's that's actually uh a funny story, but we probably you know haven't got time for that. You might have to start the music mate like they do at the Academy Awards and just have somebody usher me out of here where otherwise we'll be here till tomorrow sometime. Um but yeah. Uh it was yeah, it was uh just I guess fill in the time. Yeah, till I was old enough to be able to join up.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Um W where did the the uh I guess the interests of the military come into play? Did your family have any history?

SPEAKER_01 9:13

So I have a uh he's passed away now, a great uncle that served during uh World War II. Um and I've been meaning to track down Australia. Australian Australian uh he was actually a very incredibly famous uh Australian author. I had a number of his books created in the movies, his name is John Cleary. He served for a short time and was ended up being he was in Crete for a very little bit. Um I've been meaning to track down his his uh his military history in a bit more detail. Um my old man served in the Naval Reserve and then in the Army Reserve. Um but shortly after meeting my mum and you know getting married and everything, he was you know, had to make a decision about whether he wanted to continue doing that, and Mum obviously um you know influenced that a little bit. Uh so he did about four years. And then I think just my old man's a huge John Wayne fan, and you know, we would spend uh afternoons on a weekend watching you know old black and white films, cowboy films and war films. And uh I also I just think the kind of idolized that warrior uh behavior, mentality, and the stories and and that that you know it resonates with me. Um that it's you know it's some of the most incredible, difficult, arduous um, you know, environments in which to be in that you know, you hear about all these incredible stories throughout history. Um that you know that these things just sort of capture my imagination as a young, impressionable kid. And I, you know, I remember when I up to that point just sort of enjoyed and I think it's kind of one of those things being a boy, you run around, you've got two younger brothers, you run around the backyard playing armies, you know, you get those all those sorts of gifts and things at Christmas time and and birthdays, and I've got some other you know, cousins that you're sat we're around the same sort of age, and you know, we're just mum come from a large family, so a lot of cousins and um the Australian side, funnily enough. And um and so I just I guess it was just kind of natural to you know um to do those kinds of things as as as a young boy. And then I remember my old man coming home from work one day and uh we went out somewhere and we were walking through the city and he said to me, I'm reading this great book. I'm nearly done. And it was like I sat down in sort of like two or three hours, and that's two or three sittings is kind of almost, you know, uh annihilated. I'll give it to you when when I'm done. And uh that book turned out to be Bravo 20. And then I, you know, I got a copy of it, and you know, I remember reading it, and I can't remember exactly where it uh uh how early in the book that it is, but I remember the exact moment where I realized that's what I want to do. Um because up to that point I hadn't had any real sort of direction, I hadn't even thought about joining the military. And I would have been about 14 years old, I reckon, at that point when I read it. And I just remember reading the exact part where they were talking about the level of detail they go down to to hit a target in this particular instance. It was the scud launchers, and you know, they were working out which way the door opens, and just that level of detail is like that's what I want to do, you know. Uh that kind of precision. Um as it turns out, I'm not I'm not actually that uh that pedantic about that kind of stuff. Uh I don't know if that's a matter of like being around it too much of the infantry and the the army in general and to kind of like phase it out of me, but I remember that exact moment reading that book, it's it's like a seminal memory memory and deciding that's what I'm gonna do. So then my complete focus was that. You know, I went and you scoured libraries and and other like you know, bookstores for everything on the special air service. Most of it was the UK, the 22 um guys, and then uh around about the same time, wasn't too long after, uh Gary McKay released um um Sleeping With Your Ears Open about Vietnam. There was also um James Warner's Phantoms of the Jungle, which had been out for some time. So I managed to get a copy of that. Um and so I just you know just have a voracious appetite for reading anyway, but then this particular subject in general, and so it isn't until more recent times, you know, that uh I don't know, I was already in by that point that people started writing about their personal experiences, but the history of it definitely got my attention and it was just my sole focus. And then at school I just picked you know subjects that I enjoyed doing because I felt that would keep my attention while I just treaded water until I was old enough to join up and done my h HSC. I finished on a Thursday, my last exam. Monday morning, I was in uh in the city in Liverpool Street where they were doing the uh the testing, doing the you know, all the testing to to to join up. Um was clearly you know successful with that, and I remember ringing up to find out on the results or getting told like you know that you're past everything and uh calling up to say, you know, when can I go down? And that was 2002, I finished high school, 2003, February, February 25th, locked in as a Tuesday, locked in uh looked at Kapuka and just got amongst it. Thought it was the best best fun I'd ever had. At that point, you know, I was like I said, I was barely 17 and I just thought it was great, great time down there.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Yeah, so you enlist as uh Choco for infantry. Yep. Um was there a reason for that?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Did you just uh yeah, so uh I but like I said, I wanted to join up. Um Old Man had been planning to take the whole family to Greece and it was a big deal and uh and naturally I hadn't you know seen the family on that for quite some time and some of my siblings hadn't met ever met them other than you know over the phone and they were reluctant to let me join up and and not be a part of that, which I you know at the time I was a little bit like you know, I just want to just want to go, right? I just want to get in there, but so I managed to come to a compromise with them because I also I was not 18, so I couldn't sign the paperwork. I wrote I I needed them to sign the at 17, I needed them to sign the sign the papers. So I said to them, How about I join up part-time? And then when I get back, I'll go full-time. Because you know, the recruiter, that's another funny story, actually. But the recruiter, you know, said to me, Oh man, you know, it's just as easy to sign a bit of paper and you know you're full-time, which is not true. Um I also so my brothers, my younger brothers were cadets and they were uh they were uh parading at Cogra. And so there was a um, I think back then, if it's not the same, it was uh two second 17th Royal New South Wales Regiment um company out there, and I walked in there to, you know, and the first person I came across is an officer, ushers me into this room, I you know, say I want to join up and everything, and he's like, Cool, well, you know, what do you want to do? I was like, I want to join the infantry. He's like, Have you thought about the artillery? Because you can do all these other things like call and naval gunfire and all this other sort of stuff. And I was like, that's that sounds pretty good. And he goes, and not on top on top of all that, you can also operate as an infantryman. So you get to do both jobs. Here I am, not knowing any better, right? So, you know, I assigned the dotted line and everything with the plan of going to parade there. And remember the the day that I did the testing in in uh in Liverpool Street, it was a warrant officer that they had the like the last sort of interview with me, the last sort of say, I guess. And he's sitting across the table from me and he's in his uniform and he says to me, Why do you want to join the artillery? And I said, Oh, I don't, sir. I want to join the infantry. And he goes, Well, why have you got artillery? And I said, Oh, you know, explain the story. And he's like, Man, I'm gonna talk to that bloke about a few issues with him already. He'd obviously flagged this guy. So uh I was like, Yeah, cool. So he goes, mate, I'm gonna change it right here right now, done. Like, excellent. He was infantry, yeah. He was infantry, walked out of there and um and you know, like I said, was successful with the testing and everything. Um and so then I just literally called 131901 and tried to work out where the nearest barracks was that had an infantry you know unit there. It turned out it was um Sutherland. Um so that was in the Shire, so about 45 minutes from where I was living. And Alpha Company, I don't think it is Alpha Company anymore, it's a 4-3rd battalion, Ronald South Wales Regiment. They still exist, but uh just not in the same capacity out there. Tipo's still there. Uh, and so that's that's where it all began.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Yeah, mate, far out. I'm lucky you didn't join the artillery. I know who would like could have trustly changed the uh you know you wouldn't know where I'd be. You wouldn't know what gender box to tick then, though. Artillery. Nah, just just kidding. You guys got your purpose.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah, they're alright. I've got a couple of mates in there, they're pretty good. Uh mind you though, there's some something there's something about artillery though. I've met a few more of the and I just you know, yeah, it speaks volumes when they say I I'm artillery. Uh that makes each more sense now.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

So you head down to Capuca uh as a fresh 17-year-old. Now obviously you head to your enlistment day. What are they called? What are they called? Um It's enlistment day. Yeah, it might be. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

So you go to the easy on the space.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Yeah, and you all stand there dressed up and jump on a bus and then Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yep, yep, yeah. So family came. Yeah, I think it was, yeah. Same sort of place. I remember going to the same building where I'd done the testing, um, rock up there, family's there, I'll say goodbye. I think there's some photos somewhere uh uh of that happening, and get on the bus. Um, you know, and we I must have stopped by the airport as well and a couple other places because there was definitely people that were from like you know, whole other parts of Australia. Um I remember you know, we took the bus down to Wagga. I remember falling asleep, um, you know, drooling on myself and waking up and then pulling into Kapuka and seeing kangaroos jumping all over the place and just thinking like as a city kid, uh you know, because I've ever seen a kangaroo is maybe skiffy on TV or you know, if you go to the zoo or something like that, maybe. Um and it you know, being like super excited about the whole thing and you know, about the experience, and and you know, the bus pulls up and it's that you know, cliche old mate gets on and starts yelling. Um sergeant, you know. And I remember you know, he might have had like a slightly high-pitched voice or something like that, or his voice broke, and it kind of, you know, it kind of just dispelled that fear for me for a moment, you know. It's kind of like check this guy out, you know. What do I know, but yeah, uh there's that moment, you're like, get off the bus, and you know, we all it's kind of getting dark, and you know, we form up in some version and you know, get told where we're going, all this kind of stuff, and end up being uh um two platoon, so hallway two. Um it was two and three, we had enough enough people for uh or it might have been one and two, it was enough for two platoons. Um what I distinctly remember about that though is like once we got assigned and got put in our rooms and everything, and at some point, you know, like our our secos mentioned that all the chicks got put in the other platoon. They were pretty happy with that. Me, it didn't make any difference to me. I think probably now, you know, it was probably a good thing because I remember, you know, we were getting pretty close to marching out of that joint and they were still getting yelled at and and you know there was all sorts of calamity going on um upstairs, you know, because they obviously hadn't nailed the discipline part in the beginning, whereas we were, you know, humming by that point. Um it was just easier, you know, you didn't have to watch not that it would have mattered too much back then, but you didn't have to watch what you said said or say or do or any of that sort of thing. Um the other interesting part about that was downstairs, the other platoon ended up being the first DRS uh the direct recruit scheme. So I I ended up meeting some of those guys later, you know, in my career. Um it just happened to come in, I think, the week later or something like that, but it was the first direct direct recruit you know entry scheme uh for the for SF straight off the street.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Yeah, right, yeah, right. Now just in regards to uh Kapuka itself how how did you find that training? Obviously, you it's it's fucking as you know you're measuring fucking handkerchiefs and ironing your bed.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah, well mate, back then, like I said, you know, I had that like laser focus about being so precise and you know, um just have the level of detail. And so you know, I just looked at it like all things, same with school, and I didn't do particularly uh terrible in school or great. I like I think it's just you know just average. But um was I was always seen as some sort of um uh what's the word I'm looking for? Um as just like a challenge to overcome, you know, um like some sort of test that people put in front of me that I was like have to have to nail to the best of my ability um and just show I'm like I got this kind of you know, that kind of attitude. So yeah, it was a bit strange, you know, folding things to specifications, but I was just solely focused on getting into the army and this is you know what I knew I I thought I loved, which it turns out I do, that uh I just thought it was great and being so young and I guess I just a bit more resilient with a bit of youth. Um and I I you know I had probably a little bit more mature for my age when at least when I was younger anyway. I don't know. Maybe that's changed now, but definitely back then because I remember there were one other there was one other bloke who's still in, as far as I know, um kind of kept contact with him, served with him at two for a bit, he was overseas with us at one point, he was in logistics. He was also 17. I just remember we're in the same section together, and I remember some of the other guys um who were a bit older, you know, saying to him, like, why like what why are you so incapable of looking after yourself and you know he just kind of was a little bit more out of his depth at the time, and you know, why can't you be a bit more like Chris? Which I didn't think was particularly fair, um you know, that comparison, but certainly um I just thought it was great. I remember, you know, one time we got told, right, uh it changes as good as a holiday, everybody. So what we want you to do is take everything that is in the room you are in currently and swap it with the room across the the the the uh hallway and that room will do the same and yours will now be on the opposite side of the hallway. And you have forty-five minutes in which to do that, and everything has to be, you know, as you said, measured and perfect as it's supposed to be laid out and everything. And I just remember the other two guys in my uh in my room, because we didn't have a fourth person yet, j just got very, very flustered all of a sudden, didn't know what to do, where to start. And I just remember turning them saying, Hey guys, we got this. And they just looked at me and they're like, Yeah, we do. And then off we went. And um uh, you know, I don't know if we made the time limit or not, but we got everything to the other side, or at least, you know, we fudged some of it. I think we left one of the I think we left one like whole bed there because we didn't need to move. We just hoped, hedging our bets that the DS wouldn't wouldn't see it. Um and then they were like, right, cool. Um now we've decided that that was a terrible idea, so we want you to change it back, and you've got 30 minutes, and so then we had to like you know move everything back to where we were. Um and I just remember there being uh you know a couple of occasions like that where I just thought it was great. You know, it was this like challenge that was pretty easy to kind of you know deal with, I thought, and it just was really exciting and and you know, what hadn't been too pro pro long prior to that that uh HBO's Band of Brothers came out. Yeah, by that point, you know, when I'd seen that and mates at school and we would watch it every week and we'd talk about it. I definitely knew I wanted to join up by that point. And so, you know, what I was expecting to get down to Kapuka and have like some sort of you know Kurahee uh hill to jo you know run up every day and you know and and and that kind of thing, you know, that sort of like level of um I I guess you could you probably could call it bastardization back then. We I didn't think we had it, but you know, that sort of it was dictated in the show, you know, that that sort of you know um pressure that was put on put on them by you know the the the staff in preparation you know for going to war, which as it turns out, you know, technically Australia was at that time as well, just not quite to the level it was it was it was going to be. Um but we didn't have anything like that. You know, the most we had was a basic fitness assessment where you gotta run like you know on flat ground and do a couple of push ups and stuff like that. So um turns out I I uh ended up getting awarded uh best at PT Um down there. And uh you might actually know um I don't know if it say his name on on it, you maybe could leave it out, but Brian Turner. He went to three, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

And he ran the coffee van, right? Yeah. Um him and I were caught at competition for it. And uh I I don't know how what edged what out, maybe it's because I'm a little bit more built for running and him not so much, but they used to do the I don't know if they still do it down there, but this like high wire confidence course. And uh we'd done at some point we'd been doing like max heaves at a PT session. Um and so at some point you're up on this confidence course and there's a trapeze there, and you know, somebody said like you know, one of the PTIs can do so many heaves off that. And so when I got up there, you know, or Brian got up there, I remember him doing push-ups on some sort of beam and or platform or something, and then you know, trying to do a couple of heaves on that. And then I got up there and everyone was, you know, egging us on, and you know, I did a did a bunch up there. I didn't I didn't make as many as you know, whatever the record was at that time, but it didn't didn't do too bad. Um and so, you know, when it got at you know at the end of Capuco got announced, you know, just before we were about to do all the all the formalities and marching and everything, like who's who's getting what award I managed to get that um which you know has prior place on the wall now, but for for many years it's spent a spent lived in a box, moved house to house. But that you know, that was probably the beginnings of you know, just realising just how much I was gonna love what I was gonna do. Just that the camaraderie that you get and the friends you make and some of those guys still in contact with the day. Not many, not as many.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Yeah, yeah. In regards to your session commanders at Kabuka, were any infantry?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, so mine was uh five seven.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Pants down, pants down.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Yeah, I hadn't heard that yet and and didn't understand understand that joke at the time, but uh we had uh I forget if he was one or three, there wasn't there was another, and then there was an MP and a bombardier from artillery, who a number of times we called corporal, sometimes just out of habit because you call everyone corporal down there, and other times what's his name?

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

O'Hanlon.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

O'Hanlon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

His brother actually served in the infantry, mate, still do, and he came to two R AR at one point. Remember him there for it just because they looked so alike. One was a little bit heavier set than the other, but man, they looked it was just like far a man. I've I've just called him like five years back in time to to Bayesi training and he and then realised it was his old mate's brother. But yeah, caught him, you know, corporal a couple of times.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yeah, well yeah, I had I had a bombardier. Take the piss as well sometimes, you know, intentionally do it. Yeah, I went through a couple months later and had a bombardier, so I was just wondering if it might have been the same same bloke that would kept calling corporals. Oh maybe. I don't know. We all there was also a bloke.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Bombardier mailin' right, right. I remember we had an instructor for I think it was first aid, and he he was uh bombardier major. His last name was Major, which you just think like is really unfortunate. I mean it's not the worst, but it's just a difficult, it makes everything a bit more different. Yeah. Having your last name as Major.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

There was another mate, there was an actual major down there. His last name, he's one of his listening, you'd be well out now. His last name was Heifer. So it's Major Major Heifer. This is a piss date. Now, mate, so obviously you finish your 42 days at Capuca. Back in those days, again, Chocos and Regs were doing the exact same uh uh basic uh course.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah, they also modulised it as well for Chocos. They did eventually, yeah. Yeah, so at that time you could do two weeks at a time. And so we eventually had so one of them one of the blokes in our um in our room withdrew himself. Um he'd had you know some personal issues and you know, like you know, medication and stuff like that, and decided this was not for him. And I think he also at the time, he's a little bit only a couple of years old than me, but he had the kid and it was just you know, he was he was decided it wasn't what he wanted to do. And then I think it was for the last two weeks uh a bloke came back. And I just think that would have been the heart one of the hardest things to do is doing two weeks and then leaving and then slotting back in again for two weeks. Yeah, and you know, generally, I don't know if it's the way that it is now or the way it was intended to be, but you know, that first two weeks was sort of get you in the mindset and get that discipline and install all those things, and then after that it was sort of sort of s silent running. Um and the what the staff weren't around all day and you know there were a bit more, you had a little bit less supervision. Um I could imagine it'd be very difficult, you know, you k coming and going, you know. So, you know, good work for an old mate doing that, and he was an older gentleman, he was kind of quiet, um, seemed like you know a good enough dude and everything, but man, he must have been a little bit, you know, like it would have also been a little daunting knowing you get on a bus or whatever and drive him back down to do another two weeks down there, knowing what you know prior to that. Because you know there's plenty of people who've said they spent their first night thinking to themselves, what the hell have I done? Like staring at the roof trying to go to sleep, like what the hell have I done? Which I never had that problem. I just fall asleep. No. Wake up in the morning with jump out, you know, yeah, that hallway too. Yeah, well, she's over egg. Trying to hide it because you got just seven. Fortunately I didn't have that problem, but there were definitely a couple of occasions where some people and I got had a uh mate from school that went through a couple years later and he had a couple of funny stories to tell. Um I mate, it was that I was that young, I didn't need to shave. I I could shave once a week down there. I remember I could literally get away with shaving almost, you know, like five or six days or something like that. And so I would make all of our beds while the other two guys would race down the hallway and get them because you know you've got 48 or something other people in the in the bathroom trying to, you know, operate out from five, you know, half a dozen um sinks or whatever. Um and so I could just go down there and and you know, like every few days and you know, scrape off the little bit of you know bum fluff that was there if there was even any. Um so that you know that yeah, that's changed completely. But we've got hair coming out everywhere now.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Down the down the track, do you know Luke Staten? Uh yeah, yeah, he served we went through Kapuga together.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Right, yeah, because he served it too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yeah, there you go, man. Yeah, right. Obviously you finish your 42 days, you get posted back to your Choc uh battalion down in Sutherland. Uh Sutherland. How did you go for the next two years of being a CHOC?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Training, yeah, IETs. Yeah, so I smashed out my initial employment training pretty quick. Back then it was it changed from six weeks to four weeks. I was just again modulized two weeks, two weeks. So by the time you know I I got around to it, I think it was just that the change had just happened, so I nailed that pretty quick. And I literally would parade every single Tuesday, every single weekend. You know, they'd do these nine day blocks, you know, weekend to weekend. I go and you know, hang out and do those things. I just, you know, by that point, um, like I said, I knew I wanted to do it full time, so I just had to, you know, we went went away to Greece for the family holiday for however long it was, and then you know, turned 18 while I was there, came back. And um I actually uh same schoolmate that ended up joining up and driving tanks, he uh he was working as a labourer and kind of needed a little bit extra money. So he said, mate, there's you know, there's always jobs going. You know, I'll put you in with the boss and you know you have a have a chat. And so I went down to his office and chat with him and put him put me on. And uh he was building a place out at Cronulla. Um at the time it was only about three million dollars he'd bought this his uh this house for and he was actually renovating, so he'd already owned it and was just completely knocking it down, rebuilding almost. Anyway, so I started there on a Monday, and the bloke running the site said to me, Um, you know, you seem like a very intelligent kind of kid. What are you doing with your life? Um he goes, Look at me, I've been doing this 20 years and I don't have any licenses or qualifications, you know, so I can you know organize people to build a house, but I don't actually, I'm not legally allowed to, you know, do any of the work. He goes, Maybe you should think about getting an apprenticeship. And you get and I'm like, I I guess so. And he goes, mate, because the Tyler here, um, you know, his his apprentice has just left and he's looking for somebody. And so it's like literally day two. And I was like, Oh yeah, sure, okay, all right, I'll chat chat to this Steve. And Steve's like, mate, I'll take you if you're if you want me and get it all sorted and we'll you know do the paperwork in the internet. Was he Greek as well? He's Italian. Greek tilers.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Italian tilers. No surprise.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

His whole family, his old man and uncles and all that, emigrated from Italy and we're all stonemasons. And that's Steve's trade was in stone. So it's coincidentally, he's also the brother-in-law of the of the bloke that owned the place, so that's why he was doing the work, but also he he worked in, like I said, to uh stone. So, you know, it's a lot a little bit extra money in that, in that, um, in that part of the industry. Um, and so yeah, he's an Italian bloke who took me on and man, I you know, I worked all over Sydney and I got some I picture somewhere, you know, of me working with you know, like so close to the harbor ridge you can almost touch it and some like incredibly expensive places. Um But at some point we I was about nine months in, I think, and you sort of had this chat one day, we're out in the street, he was leaving me to finish off a job, and and um he goes, mate, what we need to do is we need to um like you know start getting you some your own tools and stuff like that, because he was unloading some stuff out of his truck into into my little little forward laser. And um and then, you know, so we can like start sending you off on your own and that kind of thing has been going to TAFE and just you know, I was getting a little you know a l a head around it a little bit. And you know, his whole idea was to train a whole lot of um apprentices and then basically take a step back and just have a whole lot of working for him, you just drive around all day doing quotes, which I hope, you know, Steve, if you're out there, mate, you're still doing that, or if you're not, you're retired and living the good life. Um because you know, we're looking 20 years ago now. But he um yeah, so he you know, he'd had a few uh apprentices even go through the like the full four years or work or labour as work for him for four years and you know, and then just go and start working for somebody else. So he was very cognizant of that and uh wanted to capture that. And I just remember like literally thinking about what he just said, going, I really don't have any interest in that. I'm just gonna do this four years, get a license, it'll be this you know, backup that I have, and I'm gonna go join the army full-time. That's that was sort of my plan. You know, I'll have something to fall back on because you know, yeah, the army might not be for me when something might happen. And uh, you know, peop plenty of people told me to have like an insurance policy. And so I realised it was just gonna be very deceitful, you know. It's and also I just really had my my heart in it to do it for another three odd years. So I remember just walking down to him before he got back into the truck and and just saying, Hey Steve, I I think you know, um it'll be best if we we part ways, you know, because I got other plans. And he's very cool about it. And uh and so you know, yeah. So I you know, I finished the week out and and then I just managed to super chalk even more than I was already doing because that was you know full time now, and there was a good full-time staff down there and became good mates with with one of the guys still in today and um and and you know, put in my application for full time and and it ended up taking, you know, another uh I think from the time I joined up was about two years by the time I sort of yeah, so minus nine months, you know. It took that long for them to come back with a with an offer. So in that time, yeah, I just you know spent as much time doing exercises and training and stuff like that and getting involved in you know in some capacities, like you know, doing what they call general duties on on other IET courses and stuff like that, because you know, um it just you know you get hands-on and um you know, just having exposure to it and getting paid, basically, you know, to um just keep on while waiting for this this uh contract to come through. Yeah, right. Which which it did.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah, yeah. So it finally comes through after about nine months.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

And well over twelve, it would have been like twelve to eighteen months by the time it came in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Mine was pretty quick, I reckon it was a couple of months, but my Seko that I had for Operation Relex, she worked at Schema. Right. So she was like Yeah, made it happen. Me and Blue Andrews. Um Yeah, so your posting comes in. Did did you have any concept of battalions? Like obviously one, two, five, seven, uh three.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Somewhat, somewhat. Um like I said, there was a full-time staff there and they were all infantry. So one was X2, um actually both of them were the QE as well. He'd you know, he was back then when you could like you know join up as infantrymen and then transfer to the Q stream and a lot of logistics and that kind of stuff. So he you know he was uh infantryman. Uh he can't do that anymore as I understand it, but um and our training way was was three hour hour and the training corporal was six because eight and nine hadn't been hadn't been re raised at that point. So just back it up there, all the Choc command structure, they were all regs. Yeah, so you have what they call it, what they call it a carter stuff. Yeah. So you'd have a one officer generally, he can be all can be a sergeant, is it he's the training one officer. So he helps to facilitate training and just guides the the Choco um headquarters. Yeah. Because you know, the the generally the major and captain and all the company headquarters, as you well know, it's more for the listeners, I guess. The company headquarters is essentially they're all Chocos, whatever you have the positions filled. So they just sort of guide and mentor and and help them through those processes because ultimately everyone has a day job and it's not the army and understanding how all that you know paperwork and the planning uh works. So we we basically it's a little different now, and I think it's just like numbers-wise and manning that kind of thing. Otherwise, we back then, you know, every company had at least in 4-3, had a had a training woe, a training corporal, um, a full-time clerk, and a full-time QE. At least we did at Sutherland there. Um so you know, we would get on the piss after the parade on Tuesday night and I'd hang around. I didn't really drink so much. Um, wasn't my like you know, I do drink, but just not not that much. It was more just chatting because these guys had been to Timor, World War Timor, which was, you know, it sounded like it was, you know, it was hectic over there. And I don't think they really embellished anything. It was just, you know, uh That's all that was happening. It was all that was happening, yeah. You know, um and so it was just it was just interesting to know. And you know, it's more at this side when you haven't been there, your your preconception of what ops is. Um so there was just you know these great stories. And then even just you know, funny shenanigans and antics that happen up in the battalion and finding out about you know all these sort of characters and stuff like that. Um so yeah, it certainly fueled it and it was definitely really keen. And there was a couple other guys there, uh another good mate as well, that like he joined up full-time, went to three. Um and that's where honestly, that's what like at the time was my intention because it was more about foolishly just staying in Sydney. I didn't really care to become a paratrooper, and as it turns out, it's probably a good thing because I hate jumping. I had perfectly good airplanes. Um but uh you know, it's just sort of I guess to kind of help my mum and dad, at least my mum anyway, you know, like living in Sydney, but still being close because she wasn't totally thrilled about me joining the joining the army. Um, you know. Um but the offer came through and it was like, here it is. If you want it, take it. If you don't, who knows, you know, you might not get another one. It was for two R up in Townsville. So the 2nd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment. Um Did you go to Singh A? No, I didn't, and and at I like I wanted to, right? Because as far as I was concerned, it was right of passage. You know, I'd heard all these stories about stuff. I remember even at Capuca, you know, we had um PTIs that were infantry and you know, they would tell us all these sort of stories and they'd try and word people up, like, you know, keep your head down and just you know, do as you're told and all that kind of stuff, because otherwise, you know, someone will come at you with an entrenching tool and try and chop your head off and you know, that kind of stuff. Because there's obviously you know, all these old stories about people you know getting hold at each other and whatever else. And it was probably those people coming through at the period where you know a lot of dead ground counselling might have occurred, so you know, people might have you know copped the old uh you know fist in the mouth for you know saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. Um so that that was their generation, so they were just sort of you know helping people out, I guess, and and then then you know the Carter staff there, same sort of thing. You know, um one you know telling telling war stories, you know, because people want to listen and then also you know trying to help people out and and maybe convincing you know uh people that they identify as you know being being um a potential you know um reg, you know, and and and and um and what's it we'll call it, you know, like promoting that, you know, and trying to encourage them, encourage them to uh to join up. So it's um I didn't really have you know very much other than stories. Um but at the same time, all I wanted to be was just a full-time grunt. So I don't even remember th thinking twice about signing it or what it the actual implications of it meant. Like I literally yeah, in my mind, yeah, go regs. Absolutely, mate. You know, it because what it meant was literally packing up what little I owned, uh chucking on the back of a truck, you know, packing a bag, getting on a plane, landing in a town I've never been to before in my entire life, uh, all by myself. I don't know absolutely nobody, and and just just going from there. Um so I never thought about any of that stuff until it happened, and even then I was just kind of like, I've you know, I've got this, like, you know, nothing's gonna happen kind of thing. So yeah, I didn't didn't really think about it too much. I just signed the dotted line. I do remember asking, because I I wasn't a hundred percent ready for you know anything other than hanging out in Sydney, what do you think if I was to you know um decline the offer? And I remember them just saying, like, you might not get another one, mate, you know. Um and I don't know, someone from schema can can message you, mate, and ask it, you know, can can confirm or not, but I imagine it might be an element of yeah, it could maybe maybe you know, like because it did take uh over 12 months before I got the offer. Um so you know, I could have just been put at the back of the bottom of the list and you know, back to the bottom or something like that, or you know, never considered again, or who knows, or you know, like I said, it could be complete bullshit. So um I was like, you know what, this is you can always transfer and stuff like that, or just let's just get in, get it, get stuck in and get going. And you know, but at this point, um I remember you know watching images of the invasion of Iraq, Ekapuka, you know, so you go in at six o'clock to for meals and they change it over from one news um channel to another so that you couldn't onto channel 10, so or whatever it was, so that you couldn't watch uh The Simpsons while you're standing in line for 30 seconds collecting your food. And I just remember seeing images of you know, you know, dudes jumping out of the back of uh planes at you know, under night vision and stuff like that, and just thinking, man, like it's the invasion's gonna be over before I get out of this place and the war's gonna be over, and you know, I'm not gonna get my my uh my shot, you know, my generation's not gonna which is obviously totally wrong and naive of me to think that. Um because at that point, pretty sure like the GAN had kind of Afghan Yeah, the invasion happened and Afghan was in full swing by 2005. Yeah, well, so by the time at the time, Kapuka 2003, yeah, like one thing has sort of switched off, the other one just started. But none of them, like anything, I guess it's the same sort of thing. People thought in World War World Wars I and II and it was you know, Vietnam, Korea, and that was gonna end and gonna miss out. Um so I thought the same thing. So I was like, just get in amongst it and and let's get going. And you know, like I like to think not that I don't appreciate my like I you know I had a great upbringing and all that kind of stuff and I have nothing to complain about, but everything before going to Kapuka was just like just existing. Whereas I was like not to offend anybody out there, particularly my mum, it's like that I was you know, Kapuka's where I was born. It's like where everything began. Purpose. Yeah, where it all began. It's where it all began for me. You know, like that was the beginning of the end, you know. Well not to be so dramatic, but it was like that, yeah, that like you said, the purpose is just I was on the I was on the right path, this is this is what I want to do, and I'm loving every minute of it. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

So obviously you get on this uh flight up to Dar uh Townshill and post it to the second. How is the reception to the young fucking chock with the fucking slouchy chock? Check this guy out. What does he know? What's the Royal New South Wales Regiment?

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, the hat badge. Yeah, so it was it was uh I'm pretty sure it was a Wednesday afternoon, and I I landed late and I, you know, uh I remember actually, because it was it might have been, I'm pretty sure it was a direct flight, but I remember you know it was three or four hours, and I remember as we come into land, like my ears couldn't equalize and it was this intense pain. I was like, man, this is this is this some kind of omen, you know? Uh and so I land, jump in a cab, drives me into lab rack back when you could actually take taxi I don't know if you can anymore, but you take taxis on to the base, drop me off out the front of the the guard room, um, you know, calling everybody corporal and by their rank and all that kind of stuff, and I'm at just like mate, relax, you know. Um this guy's you know, have you eaten yet? No. All right, cool. Well this guy's going off to dinner, so follow him, he'll take you to the mess, eat, come back here, and then someone will take you up to your room where you're gonna stay. Um, because they were kind of kind of ready for me, at least they seemed somewhat anyway. Um so you you know, I get put in a room, um, and I remember just literally like this little room with the own toilet, share uh laundry with the dude next door, and all I've got is my bag, you know, uniform in it and some other clothes and stuff like that. My other stuff's coming on a truck and and like literally no nobody, so I I remember just like going to sleep and and then waking up the next day, uh I got told that I was, you know, marching to Charlie Company. Um so I you know kind of make my way down there. I don't know how I know where to go. I can't remember that. I guess I just sort of, you know, maybe some maybe old mate showed me on the way back from the mess or something, but I I I knew roughly where to go and went down there and reported in. And it coincidentally, what had happened is on the Monday, I think by this is Thursday morning because it was sporties. I remember that's another thing. My first day at work um was was a lot there was like calamity of mayhem going on because it was a whole of these personalities in the company, but in particular it's like, right, cool, um, it's it's sporties, uh off you go. And I'm like, I've no idea what they're talking about. But what had happened is on the Monday, a whole or at some time in the last couple of days, a whole new bunch of re Rios had come from Singo. So everyone just kind of thought I was one of those guys, you know, because no one really recognized it in blended in, so it's not too bad, right? So so even and the funny thing was is that the guys that turned up from Singo all knew each other because they've gone through their training and everything, thought I just was already in the platoon. So I remember having some conversations with dudes in the first sort of couple of weeks there where that we'd be sitting around and be like, oh, so you know, what's your deal? And and I explained, they're like, Oh man, I you know, they didn't didn't know that I just sort of so that was pretty handy coming under the target under the detection threshold, which is you know, that's my MO. Pass the missus, you know, sneak up on her all the time, scare the hell out of her. Not intentionally, mind you. Um so yeah, I was kind of fortunate with that, but uh certainly the platoon staff knew my background and everything because they were a little bit wary of me. I remember having these conversations much later. Um, because my first platoon commander, he uh he just recently stepped down as the CR of three. Um but uh he became actually I saw that I heard about that. Yeah, yeah, he's he's a good man. Um so he the platoon sergeant as well. I remember them just being very sort of I guess like wary of me. Um I remember having an margin interview with them and having a quick chat about stuff and that kind of thing. And they obviously had conversations and like the pl I became good mates with the platoon SIG, you know, sometime after that, and he remembered being in the room as well because he'd you know he'd been to Timor, been in the unit for like maybe eight years by that time, something like that. So you know, he told me about some of the things that were said, and uh, you know, so I got put in with the sexual command. He'd been at 5'7 back in the day, uh, you know, done all his other postings and then had just come into um to Charlie Company at two there. Um so I could put in with his team, Max. He's a he's a good man. I don't know, he wouldn't s I don't imagine he's still in. Um and so it was just sort of a mix. We had a couple of new people and you know like me, there's a couple of extra guys that like Saint that you just marched in was there's a mix of, you know, um of of experience there. Uh one of note though, one of the b uh gentlemen that marched in from single earlier that week was uh Luke Gavin, who was tragically killed in action um some years later. Um and you know funnily enough like um he has a yeah pretty good sense of humor and he had a he uh for those of you you know google a Google a picture of Gav, he uh really good dude looked a little bit like a Lebanese version of Homer Simpson. And so we would give him a little bit of grief about that and you have a good old laugh and he'd just sort of shake his head like you idiots. And he was a vacuum clean vacuum cleaner salesman before that he worked at like Godfrey's or something we were chatting about that. It was just a sort of a strange so people come from all over the place with such a like a strange wide dichotomy of people that you know join do something else and then decide to join the army and do you know that kind of jell of all things. But it was a great time. It was an absolute like I had had a I had a great time. Trying to fit in is a little bit difficult but I just you know did what I'd heard before and was just you know keep my nose clean it's it's pretty big so it's hard to do and uh and um just you know try to blend in and you know not get myself in too much mischief which wasn't that successful with um so I think we were I was there maybe two weeks and then um exercise uh talisman saber came around I'll Taliban Slayer was that 2005 it was 2005 it was the first one I think from that changed from whatever it used to be called to to that and um yeah so I was on uh exercise uh totally gay bar and we were gonna be the the enemy for the for the um the activity and we went a little early like maybe a week or something like that and we were just doing all these IMTs as a platoon as a company and and one of the first couple days that we're there we're doing a section attack and like all new guys you get given the the gun so I had the the F-89 the light support weapon for those of you gun nuts out there um and with the in the in the assault team and so I'm you know we're doing a section attack and uh it's all blanks and um the cocking handle locks forward and I can't I can't cock the weapon and get it going and I uh there is a there's a recognized drill for that. There's also the unrecognized one that people have joked about a number of times which is where I decided to go foolishly. So I as I was you know keeping with the rest of the team you know up he sees me down I was finding the nearest tree to strike the cocking handle on to try and get it to to cock. I must have done that at least three times but it could have been more um and it broke the cocking handle. Oh no yeah so uh got myself in a fair bit of trouble on that one. Um funnily enough though I guess it was one of those things having this conversation afterwards once 'cause Max could could spit chips he like he was furious my sexual commander um and was just going absolutely bananas and uh and I I had nothing obviously I'd yeah I made the mistake instead of just cracking the top of the the feed cover and and you know racking it back and getting started. So the weapon's completely useless. Like I've literally I'm carrying around a a a paperweight basically just a very long and and silly looking paperweight for a number number of days until they can fix it. And um you know everybody like it's you know it's a it's a loss of uh weapon system so the platoon commander doesn't have that little bit extra capable section commander the platoon commander even though the you know I get put in front of the um the uh commanding officer uh sorry the company commander and the chief sandwich maker the um company sergeant major and they've got other things on their mind but I do remember standing outside their their you know their tent the CP the command post that they were in at the time and then we're kind of just like what have you done private Corfeus you know and it so disappointed in me and I was you know I was tearing shreds off myself because it just I was like I'm gonna get kicked out of here. They're gonna they're gonna kick me out of the army for this kind of thing, you know. Which they clearly don't um so that was the first time I definitely came above the uh detection threshold for the all the wrong reasons and that was the first mistake that I made. It still bothers me to this day. I'm incredibly embarrassed about it. Just you know it doesn't keep me up at night as as much as it used to um but I thought it was you know opportunity to highlight mistakes that I've made for those that are listening. I'm not we're not perfect um regardless of you know what I've what I've done you know post that and and or in the past however you want to look at it. But it was a great time and you know we um did the rest of the exercise and had a great time and I got a good rapport with my my team and I think one of those other things and certainly for anyone that's interested out there is going to think about joining up the thing with the infantry or at least the way that it used to be and I like to think it hasn't changed much is that if you can perform well and that you're you're physically robust and durable and resilient and have a you know positive attitude and just you know as a new guy be like yep I'm whatever job you get given within reason obviously um to just approach it with you know the right mentality and and 100% that people will realise this person's a hard worker and they know what they're doing and you know they're willing to learn with that with things that they don't know and so you fit in much well uh much much quicker. If you play football at least back in the day if you played football man you're in like that. Didn't matter what you could do you were Teflon coded and you know you're you know you're yeah you're riding with the cool kids from the moment you you literally landed in Townsville and turned off to work. Seen that plenty of times um yeah and that's just because that that sort of like physical prowess which is just a natural kind of byproduct of being in such a you know a warrior masculine culture which is you know subculture is exactly what it is um so for anyone out there thinking about it you know preparation yeah preparation physical preparation was it talisman saber or was it cater there was one of those as well later that year yeah because I did cater I missed talisman on the you didn't miss much mate no I was up there for cater mate or we all we did for those of you going to be doing talisman saber this year um good luck I won't be joining you but we basically just walked patrolled throughout the day with our pack you know marching order and stopped somewhere at the night dig a hole stay there maybe overnight maybe a couple nights and then pick up and do the same thing again and just did that for a month until we literally I thought not quite a whole month. Well we're out there a month the last week we just spent in this one location on this hill the entire company and that was where the you know the the bad guys although we were you know obviously we're the bad guys and the good guys come to get us um to the enemy you know the good guys come to get the enemy basically just lived on this hill in this you know and in shoalwater bay in the wintertime man it is incredibly cold. So also if you're found to go out there don't it's it's not like the rest of Queensland. It's for some reason it's this little vortex in there's like beautiful triangle kind of stuff it it gets ridiculously cold. I remember I didn't have any equipment right none of my stuff had turned up so I just had what I I literally had with me so I had to borrow a pack and and and uh I had my own webbing but I you know like in terms of like um um cold weather equipment I had I had literally nothing so I literally I cut the sleeves off the old um uh ceremonial jumper they used to give us the issue Howard how it green yeah that yeah so it was like a it was like a like a baby yeah kind of uh brown you know with with olive fluid little bit of camouflage on the shoulders yeah so I literally I cut the I cut the sleeves off to try and you know make it smaller because I figured at least you know wool and everything it would it would cover the cover my uh torso and keep me reasonably you know a little bit warmer than nothing um but it was it was pretty in insufficient for that time of year and I had no idea I was like ah we're gonna we're in Queens then we'll be fine. Better the softy I mean there was frost and stuff like that. It was lucky I had a proper sleeping bag otherwise it would froze at night. I had my first military birthday on Talesman's saber. Oh yeah yeah so shared sh uh we were like a couple of days apart on picket um yeah so well I our two IC had the had the uh policy that if you had your birthday outfield you didn't do picket oh yeah but I remember it for a number of reasons so Maxie had gotten a beat a speargas in his eye had to go into uh Rockhampton to the hospital to get that removed and he knew that uh one of the other guys in our section he was the the the uh fire team leader for for of our little crew was it the crew was him and myself because we were we were short a couple of people in the section um it was his birthday you know sometime in that time so Max brought a cake Max comes back to the section or out in the field or in the bottom of this literally in the bottom of this trench at night time and he finds out someone says oh Chris's birthday is like tomorrow or the next day or whatever he's like cool we're celebrating two birthdays and so this little like Woolworths you know kind of style cake in the plastic you know pops the lid off and everything and everyone sings um the two of us happy birthday I was like man this is like the best birthday again no offense to my parents or anyone else and my wife it's like at the time it was like one of the best birthdays I'd ever had always the best birthday I've been right I still remember you know I remember everything about it basically and um and then you know I remember uh it was a a couple of days later it was my actual birthday and Matt um the two IC says to me mate you you know you you've got the night off I'm like sweet anyway we we uh lay down for the for the night wherever it was I remember looking up clear sky I'm like you know I'm not gonna put up any kind of cover it'll be fine next minute I wake up and I am literally I am literally lying in a puddle of water there is water running through my sleeping bag and it just happened to be like some uneven ground so I managed to elevate myself in my sleeping bag on this little bit of uneven ground on using my like shoulder and my little bony hips and everything that sort of you know because I'm such a little bloke you know just enough to keep me out of this and I can see as I look down this water running through my sleeping bag and disappearing down to where my feet are and literally just hating going well at least I'm not picket I guess but it wasn't a particularly it wasn't a particularly um restful night. Yeah um and anyway yeah so we were out there for that whole month and yeah we just sort of dug holes and hung out and chatted and you know met the other guy had plenty of time with other blokes and yeah you know within the other sections as well because you know we'd yeah there'd be some sort of like you know bit of um uh changes you know who we were hanging out you know doing pickets and stuff like that with so I got a chance to sort of meet everybody and get to know people a little bit better and you know um it yeah it was it was a good time. Good time.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Yeah so during your time at two you were posted with your brother. Yeah so your brother's in in two as well.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Yeah so my uh my brother was at Singleton um at the at the you know at the beginning of the of that year finished finished um singo and um and marched in I while we were outfield on Tales of Saber. So what was actually I guess it was interesting about us I turned up that night uh in Townsville that afternoon and I got to meet the acting RSM who um I won't say anything about him. Um anyway he's he's not a particularly nice person. I mean maybe maybe his kids love him I don't know but anyway so and I I actually remember him being he'd been like uh staff on one of my IET courses but being a senior instructor he'd never seen him I think I just heard him once because he has a particular kind of you know he has a sort of particular voice. Anyway I remember him like you know I'm I standing in front of him sort of put your heels together when you talk to me kind of thing and um and he's like mate we're not expecting you for another couple of weeks like what are you doing here? And I'm like so I just got told that you know get on a plane and you know I signed I I you know like and and turn up and um anyway so he works out he's they're expecting my brother a couple weeks later not me. So it's it's it's an unusual last name right so they were just there's like there's some sort of mix up. So then we worked that out because my brother I hadn't had any communication with him for that point. He'd changed his preferences when he found out I was going to two that he wanted to go to two as well and managed to get it so there was a hole like there was a bunch of guys that came in that sort of period to to uh to our hour so I hadn't spoken to him in in in whatever time it was and known that he was also coming as well or maybe I did and maybe that's what I said to him you're probably thinking about my brother. I can't remember but yeah we there was that confusion when I turned up like what the hell are you doing here so so early. So he he turned up while I we're outfield and got back and he went to Delta Company and man we you know did a whole lot of stuff together it was it was the coolest thing ever. It's like one of my like fondest memories you know um there was always that whenever we were running any kind of fitness test it was definitely always that competition. We're both built for running I'd say that at that time he was a little bit um little just a little bit faster in you know longer distances and middle middle to long distances so it was always a competition. You know we'd one of us would beat the other and you know try and do more push-ups and all that kind of stuff as well and you know any time there was any sort of like physical aspect you know we were definitely there was it was it was that you know competitive rivalry the two brothers have yeah um but also too you know like it was it was healthy. Yeah um how long did he spend in well he's still in now he's still in yeah so he's uh no way he's over at seven um which is funny because now I'm starting to get correspondence from people um because I'm still a Chocko and so I get things that get emails about stuff or I get phone calls from people because I'm the first of the two Corfuses to come because I it's obviously rank na uh so it must be like name alpha first name alphabetical or something like that. So I'm getting a few random calls from people. Some people who actually know me and don't realize that there's another one of us too it's been a strange conversation we've had as well just recently um so yeah there's there's still still a bit mixed up but he's yeah he's still serving he's he's been doing high up in the in the yeah so he's a CSM yeah at at uh to get him on a podcast mate yeah mate I'll let it cornflakes number two shit stories as I do but yeah sure he would have done the GAN or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

Yeah yeah we were over there at the same time yeah it's pretty cool yeah fuck your mum would have been having a heart attack that's that's saving private Ryan shit right there.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

A little bit a little bit it's funny 'cause we you know we talk about more about in de detail but we were in the same platoon for a period of time as well um not for very long and you know we weren't deployed and then we just happened to be in the GAN at the same sorts of times and you know more recently when I was um on my way out and doing some um protective security details and that before I left too um he was over there as a platoon sergeant you know with eight eight nine at the time I think they were running out of um um Kabul Airport yeah but we yeah I've got a cool photo actually it's up on the wall at home of the two of us yeah um fuck that's awesome it is man it is very cool he's not smiling at the photo kind of ruined it um but yeah but no it's don't get me wrong it's it's a great photo I think it's it'd be nice you know our kids in the future yeah you see that kind of stuff because you know I like I don't really do that stuff anymore even though I I technically do but I'm not you know what I mean it's not the same sort of thing so my little blow probably by the time he's old enough it'll just be you know it'll be a picture on the wall. Yeah you know because his kids are old enough they you know they know what their old man does and has done and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 59:46

Yeah right yeah no awesome mate shout out to uh CSM Nick cornflakes number two don't be scared if any of your diggers out there don't be scared to call him that cornflex now mate uh during your time at two qualified recon you did mortars and sigs like you just fucking wanted to do them all and you did them all.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Yeah well it wasn't a matter of SIGs no no offense to anyone out there as a SIG but that was that wasn't that wasn't my preference I wanted to I went you know I got there and it was too long after um courses period started and I wanted to do a recon um and I got SIGs along with my brother so we did the same we did that course together and then to try and get out of getting sent a signals platoon because I did not enjoy the course at all it was there was a lot of stuff there that we were taught that was outdated and that's the way the army was like the instructors knew it was but it just takes such a long time for things to change. Like we were getting taught stuff that was literally Leviathan era technology like the switchboard we spent like a week setting up a switchboard and and wire all over the battalion people could around it you know it's like stuff that you literally never ever use. Even the people instructing on it were like we've never used this in the entire time we've been in signal splatoon you know so there was stuff like that you know and then also we did like a we drove around for a week up north we went in three different directions and we used all these you know different we used antenna theory to improvise antennas in all different environments to try and communicate back to Townsville and didn't get a single peep out of anybody no one you know other than using mobile phones. So I was just like man this is just this capability is it's not it's not tickling my fancy here it's not it's not getting me going so um I do not want to go to the platoon. And you know people obviously who are a little bit more competent in things you know um instructors identify that and they're like we'd like to work with this person. So I was like you know um there was plenty of other dudes there that were definitely capable and competent and all that kind of stuff but thankfully um I stayed in Charlie Company um and we deployed these T more and then I got back and the opportunity to do the mortar um course came up my brother and I both again went down there and did that and there was like 50 people on on that course there's a lot of two RR, a lot of three RR and um and my idea I had to be no no offense to anyone as you know because it's a very capable and competent mortarmen and it's an incredible ability. Yep. 8-0 baby they um I had no interest in doing that either but I think it the the lesser of two evils this way I might be making myself a bit more available to go if I'm going to get put in a support platoon out of mortars as opposed to um those people in SIGs that you might want to call losers or not. No never mind I've got some good mates that are SIGs. No exactly mate if you if you want to guarantee a trip fucking become a SIG guy absolutely they go everywhere get to hang out with the boss be his handbag and you hang hang out and do everything with him yeah the CO's CO's bat boy. Yeah um CO SIG yeah it really wasn't um I like at the time I just yeah that's not what I wanted to do. I actually you know by this time I I was said or identified you know special forces as my path and everything. Didn't make it but really uh known to anybody outside I guess just you know performing physically and you know and also trying to you know with my skills as well. But yeah definitely didn't have a choice with the SIGs used mortars to try and get out of it um and it wasn't until I was like literally about to leave two R and and and you know go to go on selection that I did um I did the recon course which was kind of like training for it really and also to tick that box and the opportunity came up and there was a spot and all that kind of thing. But yeah so I got pretty I got some pretty good um skill sets out of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

Yeah so let's let's go back to May 2006 uh your T Wall trip you know Tmall uh swung into a bit of action a bit of riding bit of looting bit of Well well Tmore too because you could say kicked off it was kicked off I missed it all I was injured I'll let you know Matt jumping yeah didn't miss anything mate experiences may vary it's definitely something so I um I've heard plenty of people say they had a great time and I don't doubt that um I would be on the other end of the spectrum we had a company commander and and um a CSM who was that gentleman that met me the day that I arrived at Townsville who were um I'm sure at some on some reality in another dimension were a great combination.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

There's only one way to describe those two people you know um you can pick a word um can't yeah that's a good way to do it that's a good that's that's exactly right I would that's perfect. So you know they had their grand plans and ideas and I and I understand like you know people have their different motivations and stuff like that and trips operations and stuff definitely have a um a different meaning and a different um future aspect future or you know future promotion aspects for for different people so um they definitely thought it was something more than it was and I mean when we got there there was you know it was martial law had been declared there was you know there was social unrest is is a polite way of putting it there were just gangs of youth getting around burning stuff down and stealing things because I mean why not when there's no cops around we'd probably do the same thing if we're in in in their situation. Yeah yeah um some of it was also you know there's like money cultures uh you know you I would say even here we're not different we're not totally different where you know you have um grudges and rivalries that are you know generational and this is an opportunity to to get even to get square so there are people certainly reporting things on on you know other activities you know just trying to like you know take their either the competitor or some person they didn't like you know out of the picture but we basically had um we had uh like com what's the word I'm looking for oh complete control we had complete um like latitude uh we had a lot of latitude for detaining anybody like there was literally you could just I don't like you I'm detaining you yeah basically um but it was usually you know people that were of suspicious or of a certain age group and that kind of thing or we caught doing stuff so um there was one particular time we we um put a a vehicle checkpoint on this bridge that was leading into Dilly and it was not too far out of town but it was one of the major routes that you know you would take from up the mountains. I think Gleno was like sort of like the next major village along which was a fair way down the road like we're talking probably another hour or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

But this was north east you're talking northeast?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

Yeah yeah I think another bridge you talk about yeah it was near a marketplace called Bacara which is funny because at the time I was reading um Somalia I was reading Blackhawk Down uh it was it's I forget the um the Bacara Markets yeah I forget the uh author's name is Mark something but yeah he they that's where it all happened Bacara Market so M Mike Drean no he's the he's the helicopter pilot he's the he's the Blackhawk pilot that was right have you? Yeah yeah that'd be cool that'd be cool interesting hectic um that'd be very cool uh so yeah I remember reading the book at the time and you know just like the the similarities to it because actually what was happening was literally we'd be doing the vehicle checkpoint and then you'd just like notice a a trail of smoke leading into the into the into the uh into the sky and be like man so you'd send a section over there and someone literally just like because it was you know just marketplaces and people's businesses they just literally you know put put it to the torch. So you know by the time you know by the time we were there for I don't know for how a week or something like that you know the whole place had basically been burnt down one little stall at a time. But right where we were there was a corner um a corner uh there was a a building it's a residence with a corner store on it and it had been ransacked well before we got there. Anyway we also used that building to like lure people in so basically we would hide in the back of it you know and then wait long enough for some dudes to come in to try and like you know if they're gonna like loot it or something like that, see if there's anything left and then huzzah jump out and surprise them and nab them, right? Because we're kind of bored and you know we just like I said we could literally detain people for any reason. This was a good enough reason right um for you know looting and that sort of damage and vandalism anyway the owner of the building it looked like just given the interior that it might have been Chinese or something like that then they'd clearly like fled the city or maybe they only lived there you know a certain time of the year or whatever because it was much different comparison to other interiors of places we went in Timor. I just remember I've even like I've written journals of every you know trip that I've done and I remember at some point you know like just remembering it reading back at some point it's been a while since I have but like people just like living in dirt like literally it's like I don't understand when people look I look for I don't know you mate I look forward to going to sleep at night got a nice comfortable bed. And these people literally just like living in what looks like So this place was tiled and you know it was a bit affluent. They obviously had that business and everything, so they're doing alright, but they weren't around. So at some point people actually eventually broke into there. And so again, same thing. At this point, because I'd done SIGs, I um I did that deployment as the platoon SIG. So I was with um with the boss who mentioned before. Um he was still at Platoon Commander at the time. So he's a big tall, six foot something, lanky bloke, and just wanted to get in amongst it. So you know, at some point maybe we, you know, same sort of thing we hidden when I was you know in the house or whatever, or we like hid close by to the entrance, you know, left the door open because it had already been it'd already been broken into, and you know, guys are going there and then we'd follow behind them like, right, cool, got you guys nabgers, and then we'd you know, set the trap again and wait and see if we get anybody else. And that was sort of how day was days were going while we were also stopping trucks and stuff and stopping you know um gangs infiltrating into the city because they'd obviously heard and were coming down to try and see what they could steal. You know, that's this was before um iPhones and and iPads. I mean I had an I had an uh Apple iPod, the old like 60 gig, yeah. Big bad boy. First first generation. Yeah, like yeah, um, all that kind of like Apple products hadn't really used. Yeah, so they were anyway. So you know, we were having a good old time, I guess. Um, but like the oversight by uh headquarters was you know a little restricting and and you know um it it wasn't it wasn't uh great to be around them. And you know, they had some ideas about like patrolling programs and stuff like that that were just probably a little too hectic for for Timor. Because I would say like after two weeks, all that sort of looting and and pillaging and that kind of thing had really stopped, either that like there was nothing else to burn down and steal, or you know, they just kind of like gotten over it and got it out of their system. So it just sort of seemed like to me, like, all right, let's just pack up and go home, like give the cops back their pistols and you know, like I've got a real war I'm getting ready for but you know, like a you know, the because the GAN is going off and you know Exactly everyone five seven's getting a Guernsey and fully armored. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so there was at that time someone had heard from somebody who was like in the headquarters somewhere, in the division somewhere, that Charlie Company 2RR were getting the next GAN trip, right? Because it did actually end up happening. I just wasn't in it. Um so it didn't actually come in true, but we heard about it and was like it's gonna happen in 200 uh seven. Yeah. Um sorry, no, two thousand and six, and it did actually happen, but sorry, no, no, two thousand and seven. Yeah, it was two thousand seven. Um so it didn't actually end up happening. So, like, you know, my mind I was just like, cool, let's go. But at the same time, um, you know, there were a whole lot of officers there that we definitely made it seem like that there was more to do. Um, and we, you know, I feel like it's fine to say this, but we were told basically we'd go out on patrols and you had to write a patrol report when you came back, and there had to be something, so you couldn't have nothing to report. You couldn't put NTR that was not sufficient. Yeah. So you had to make something up, or you had to generate something. Yeah, like we we walked past some dude who just came out to his front yard to take a whiz or whatever, or had a smoke or something like that. One of the boys had their sure fire torches, which were all the rage back then, they just came out on the market. And this thing is just like a laser beam, right? From the moon, you could put a bloody dot in the moon. Scared the hell out of this bloke, right? He's in his own front yard, you know, playing with himself or whatever he was doing. We scared the hell out of him. And we're like, what are you doing up at two o'clock in the morning, Matt? You come with us? Because we could do that, right? Just took him off with us. And I remember just like being very disillusioned by the whole thing at that point, you know, could like it's like this is this is not what we're here for. You know, clearly we don't have a job. If we're making things up or we're generating work to put in a report, then like why no problem with patrolling, that's fine. But it like to we're giving in uh an inaccurate impression to anyone in charge, there's actually anything to do here. But it became kind of apparent, and you know, like sure I argued that someone could prove me wrong, but it's pretty confident that like all those people in higher places were like, you know, maybe it's a politically motivated thing, we need to be here, we need to be here for a long time. We've got our foot back in the door or whatever. Um, so we'll just make it like we've got and you know, to their credit, they wanted to be on ops because it's good for them, and we get to be on ops with them because they can't do the job by themselves, they need diggers, so we get paid. Um, because that's all we were concerned about too, is when we got there was whether it was going to be warlike like the previous Timor trip. So the talk was all about money. Um the theme song was um Pink Floyd's Money from uh Dark Side of the Moon, which I absolutely love that album. Um but yeah, we'd just be we'd just be singing that while we were you know sitting somewhere and money. I also wanted to play it uh like if you had a couple of rudimentary sort of speakers and stuff like that. I remember having it on my um on my my big heavy brick-like iPod. Um so you just hear like the opening uh the song where you know the money is you know in the and the cash registers, you're chicken and all that kind of stuff. Um it turns out it wasn't, but we still made pretty good coin, yeah, considering how young we were and everything. Exactly. It was tax-free.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

You came back with 50 grand in your account. You're like, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:39

I didn't not quite that much, but I was still pretty pretty good. Like it wasn't too far off it. For the most guys end up staying six months for that trip. I I came up home after three, same with my brother. Um again, I think it was a bit of a downsize, and it was like, we really don't need all these people here, so we can send some home. And my grandmother wasn't um you know at best of health, so they they uh they asked the other companies if anyone had any other reasons than they would just substitute for anyone who wanted to stay. So um it like it wasn't the the there were there were good times. Like I have some fond memories. Again, I I celebrated my 21st birthday over there. Um the boss had his mum send over some cigars, um, and we we would get mail like that because we were so close to Australia. Like literally it got to a point where the mail was so good, we'd like getting stuff the next day. We get newspapers literally like you know being published a day or two ago. Um, you know, Zoomags coming out everywhere, like all that stuff. Which was back in those days. Yeah, man, that was that was freebies. Actually, I was in Zoomag. Um it's the back of my head, right? So we're doing we we get I don't know if we got called somewhere, we're patrolling somewhere, but I do remember a building being on fire. I was a hostel or something like that. And I'm in PHQ with the bosses, you know, I've got I'm I'm his sick and everything. And he just sees his building on fire and beelines for it, right? To go and see if there's anyone inside it, because it's only just starting to go up. Um and I just remember thinking to myself, well, gotta follow him in, which I didn't really need to, but you know, like I've got to protect this this idiot as I'm thinking this idiot from himself kind of thing. So we we bang it into the first room, and I could just remember seeing the the flames like crawling across the ceiling, so they're coming up up the back of the wall, the back of the room and across the ceiling and everything, and it was just some bunk beds, no one in there, it was completely like almost derelict. And um and and then like right, cool, run into the next room, and it's like the quicker we get this done, the quicker he'll he'll get out of here and we don't have this bloody flaming building um collapse on top of us. And so we checked the last couple of rooms. Anyway, at some point, like we were still at um in you know in Dilly, we ended up being in this FOB where we'd rotate a platoon would rotate into the hospital and provide security there because it became an internally displaced persons camp because everybody you know there was actually like uh the UN actually set up a campaign. Yeah, the white chance. Yeah, which got like a massively out of control, and everyone else obviously, you know, if they couldn't get in there, we're like, well, the hospital's a pretty safe place, I'll go there. So there were people just living in the in the uh in the um the grounds of the ho uh the the hospital. So we were providing security there, and then we had the other two platoons um in this area with CHQ, and it was like literally the size of a basketball court. Um I wish I'd take a picture. I don't know if I maybe I do, but it's got a picture of it somewhere. I wish I had taken a picture of it because it was just all these like neatly laid out, really close together um stretches in in mozzie nets and everything, and we like managed to fit you know the better three quarters of a company in there, um, but then had the like very constant oversight of a certain couple of people we mentioned earlier who you know just made life very um uncomfortable. Um so you know there was um there was opportunity, like you said, we get out of the hospital, be a little bit you know, less observed and there's a little bit more fun and a bit open and everything. But um like for the most part, I just wasn't like I said, I was disillusioned with the whole process and everything, and I wasn't having as much fun as like Brava Company was over there with Three Rava Company with their you know your your OC was running around in the in a bloody parish mock and you know I actually you know I also have 90 degree heat. So coincidentally, mate, there was the the clerk at at um Alpha Company 4.3 ended up going to 3R and he was over there at the time and I didn't like I knew he was there but hadn't seen him yet. And he was there was this um newsletter was getting produced like weekly or fortnightly or something like that, and it was basically just um you know taking the piss out of the whole thing. Right and I've I've got copies of it still. And I just remember reading it, thinking to myself, man, this sounds so familiar. I don't know what like what is it about this is you know, and then and then it dawned on me um that it was him creating this thing because he'd been there, you know, the previous Timor and that they used to have the what they called the Samachon. Um and so it was just like the unit was producing newsletter and just had all these like funny things that happened within the unit and funny quotes and stuff like that, you know. So it was an unofficial thing anyway. So he tried to re-reproduce that because it was actually quite entertaining. So I managed to I've got all those copies at home somewhere in a box. Um and I just remember thinking, I was like, this is this is John. This is I'm what I'm recognizing is his like you know, pattern, vocal pattern kind of thing is anyway. So I remember seeing him over there and um uh you know like and it was kind of cool, you know, again, like to come together and then and then the other mate that was really keen who joined up and came through, he was obviously over there with Bravo Company. Um and so like we hear about a lot of that stuff that happened because we were completely dislocated from everybody else through this newsletter, like you know, old mate running around the parish mock saying, Follow me, gents and running up the road by himself, tallyo kind of sh kind of shit, you know, and quotes from things like I'm too scared to go out there, is it safe, you know, and stuff like that, and finding out that it's you know, one of the platoon sergeants or something like that. And um, you know, there's just all these sorts of funny things that that happened that you you know wouldn't have heard about. I mean, that's when you know there's some people that end up going to RR that are, you know, well known uh sorry, two commander that are reasonably well known. I won't say their names, but like they you know at three at the time, and so you know, those names appear and stuff like that. It's funny how it's kind of a small community, even though it's there's still still quite a few people um you know that that have you know been in it. But um, yeah, I like like I said, I was a little disillusioned with the whole thing where we were just trying to create work to stay there longer, and I can appreciate it because it meant we've got to stay there longer and make cash, but at the same time, I was like, this is this job's not what I'm doing. This is not infantryment, it's work, you know. This is like anyone could do this, you know. At some point you have people riding bicycles around to delete. If I'd still been in and been doing I would have flat out refused. I'd be like, I'm I'm pulling, I'm pulling a hammy here, I'm you know, I'm I've got a medical problem that I can't discharge, I can't you know, deploy something like that, because there's no way you catch me doing that. Riding a push. No offense to anyone out there, but it's just not what Chris wants to do on ops, you know. Probably sounds like a lot of fun too, yeah. I'd like to think you're hanging out at a beach, sipping pina coladas, you know, and just enjoying life, but man, it's just not what I wanted to do. I was still so like razor focused, laser focused on on you know where I wanted to go that it's just like this is not you know, and you were starting to hear some stories about like op anaconda and and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:26

All right, so you get back from your first T-MW trip, you cashed up. Did you buy an SS like everyone else? No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:34

I got married though.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:34

Oh, did you? Yeah, that was a mistake. So you're wasting your money.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:38

So you just wasted it in a different style. Yeah, just a different style, mate. I was more mature about how I wasted it basically. Um we did it wasn't an expensive wedding, but uh you know, we bought a place shortly after that as well. You know, um yeah, it needs to say that didn't work out, and I'm happily married to an amazing woman now, so that was the right choice. I think uh you know, you sometimes gotta make a mistake to learn from it, to realize what you where you went wrong, what you gotta what you gotta change. But yeah, we got we got back. Uh like I said earlier, uh opportunity came to do mortars because I was staring down the barrel of going to support company the following year in 2007, and I was like, I do not want to be going to six. So make myself a little bit more employable and give them the option. And um so I went and did that, and that was great, great fun hanging out again in Melbourne every weekend with my brother and the other boys uh and you know making friends with other and again same mate from uh the Choco days had gone to 3R here and I'd been on that course. Um and then find out we're coming back to to work in 2007 and we're gonna get put in a surveillance cell, which had previously existed, got disbanded, was getting re raised, had no idea what it was. And basically we were just like the the uh shit kickers for recon snipers because they didn't want anything to do with us, but they wanted us to do all their you know their dirty work, like clean out their you know their cages and stuff like that. Um, you know, it it turned out to be alright because that was an opportunity there. I did a bit of I basically could say OJTs of recon. Um there just a number of times there where they needed extra hands and they were like, right, cool, well you guys are more than capable. Um you're you're in a recon patrol now, and off I go. Um and that was good, you know, because it managed to work with a bunch of other people and maybe a little bit more in that sort of motivation that I was I was looking for. Not to say that you know, guys I worked with weren't in the sections, but you know, you get varying amounts of like attitude about how people approach their their profession and their work and that kind of stuff. So that was you know, that was good times. Um also got told we got you know first beginning of the year was um we're going back to Timor. Good news, everyone, the entire battalion is going back to Timor. I remember being absolutely gutted and thinking I do not want to go back to that place. I had a terrible time, you know, I'm not interested. Someone take my spot. Um but it won't be till later in the year, so maybe something will happen, it'll be maybe it'll maybe it'll end, you know, maybe we'll get someone else will get it. So I remember going home from the boozer and and drinking um a lot because I was upset about that, but anyway. Um everyone else is just excited because it was getting cash, right? Everyone just wanted to do trips, yeah, you know, and and and yeah, anyway. So um at this point was it, yes, so it's 2007, we get told, uh so I get sent to support company, I get put in um surveillance, and a whole lot of people from support company and some of the other companies get put in Charlie Company, and Charlie Company goes to the GAN. Um so kind of a little disappointed about that. Um you know, because we put two years into that company, and then like they just completely changed it all up and everything. There weren't too many people that got to stay. Anyway, so yeah, that's just the way it is. And um and in my mind, I'm like, you know, SF's going all the way, right? With SF. So um then the opportunity comes up for the uh Duke of Gloucester Cup, which is a section competition within the Royal Australian Regiment. So every every battalion puts in a in a uh a section and they compete in infantry minoric tactics. Yep, better known as dog cup. Dog cup, yeah. So uh, you know, they say everyone's interested, you know, put forward and um and you know, for selection for it essentially, and you know, we just did a whole lot of a whole lot of stuff, everything from you know physical tests to to skill-based tests and that kind of thing. Um, and you know, again, my brother and I um were selected into the team, which is pretty cool. Um, and it was a good cross-section of of um uh experience. We'd had a I think Alva Company had uh just returned from Iraq uh doing that uh Overwatch Battle Group or whatever it was called with the Japanese, yeah, something like that, with the Japanese engineers um in the south of Iraq or something like that. I don't know much about it because it didn't go, but um yeah, so they had a few of the like Section Commander and and 2YC and a couple of other digs in it. Um so there was a bit of experience there in terms of ops, and then we had you know Timor, if you want to call that experience. And anyway, so we did that and um and then you know we competed in the uh the battalion um uh section competition and we naturally won. So this is the thing, right? So they said to us, right, if you get into the into the dog cup, you're not going to you're not going to Talisman Saber 2007, and if you win the dog cup, we're gonna send you to the United Kingdom to do the Cambrian Patrol. And I remember just sitting there just going, I believe when I say it, mate. You know, like whatever. As if you can like get it, we're gonna get out of an exercise. Sure enough, to their credit, didn't go on on it. We trained because the the CO is in the is the one that said it in this room. He's like, I want you to win. This I this is what I like, I need you to win for me because it you know it's a big massive bragging ride's fans. Huge prestige for him, apparently, right? And I'm just thinking to myself, like, whatever, man, I'm just in this team to win.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:09

Like, I don't give a I just want to trip to the UK, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:12

Like, well, if that happens, yeah, sure. Like, I'll believe that when I see it too. Right when I land in the UK and I realize like English people walking around talking to me, I'll I'll believe it. But uh my I just I'm just here for the the competition, like I'm all about winning, right? Anyway, so it was a great time. We trained for several weeks beforehand, got down there, absolutely smashed every other team. Um, you know, no offense, four area, you know, former you know, well should sooner be two commando. Um, or is now two commando. Um they did win one trophy. We won the out of the six, we won five of the trophy. So we're pretty pretty chuffed with ourselves. Remember getting on the plane at Singano to fly back to Townsville, and Wendell Saylor was on the plane, and he just like good work, bought because man, we were still a bit dusty from the night before and just full of bravado, you know, young, young dudes, walk them with these trophies because we didn't want to put them in the in the plane and get broken. So we carried them on the plane and everything, and man, like he was just like clapping and that kind of stuff. And I remember just looking at him like, pfft, whatever, mate, he's like some sort of drug drug cheat. Because at that point he was doing his been done, right? So in my mind, like at this point, you know, every room I walk into, except for my mates there, I think I'm better than everybody because I'm an infantryman. I'm an Australian infantryman. That's how my mentality was for quite some time, right? So it's a little bit, you know, it was a sort of an element of it's warranted.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:20

Imagine being a paratrooper.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:25

We're better than everyone, and and broken up with the head back and uh knees and yeah, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so you know, I had that kind of mentality as you as a as a young um you know. Yeah, of course, ten foot tall and balls. Exactly, exactly, his young infantryman. So yeah, we had a great old time. But uh the the four R team they put together and had um this gentleman, I remember he was out the front when we were you know uh all formed up to find out who won and who got all the different trophies and stuff like that. I mean he's just big, tall, six-foot looking, barrel chested, you know, just typical he's epitomised what you imagine a soldier to be and yeah, he's his commando, right? And at this point, you know, like w admittedly, again, I feel it's a little embarrassing, but at this point, like a lot of the almost everybody in the battalion just sort of seen them as just another infantry battalion that used an acronym at the end of their at the end of their um you know, at the end of their name, right? And that we didn't really know anything that was going on at that point because it was just you know, this is 2007, so there was like it had been kinetic in in the GAN and these guys were getting tripped. So these guys, you know, we didn't realise until we went out the piss later with them um in Singleton at the Imperial Hotel that every one of those guys on the team was a combat veteran. You know, and and um and if you want to talk about um confidence, uh, you know, then those guys definitely had it, you know, like you know, we were just dreaming, you know, thinking that we were the best, uh, you know, because we'd won a couple of trophies or whatever. Anyway, so it turns out that that you know gentleman standing at the front there leading the section, and at that time they changed to a 12-man section, so they were they were um uh like trialling that um was was Muzz Turner. And a whole lot of guys that I ended up serving with in Delta Company, not all of them, but some of them end up being instructors on selection and and some other and other courses on the Rio and stuff like that, and some of the guys I just ended up serving with in Delta Company. So it's funny how things kind of came around at the in, you know, like who was to know it, right? So anyway, these guys, you know, we're like out in the piss with them, and they're talking about man, we don't do this infantry market tactic stuff, we do DAs, you know. We and I'm like, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. What's a DA, you know? And um anyway, obviously come to find what that is.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:22

So anyway, you know um not housing approval.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

No, it's not. Although it is banging in on your house, yeah. So and telling what you can and can't do. So uh we we do that, and then sure enough, we get told you're going to the UK. And it was literally the first time an Australian team had been sent in 30 years. Uh the the brigade RSM at the time, Regimental Sergeant Major, he had been the section commander in 1985 or whatever it was when they when we we we'd last been there. And so he came and gave us the hot tip about what it was like on kind of stuff in here. And again, we're just like, man, what do you know? Like, you know, we just we just won five out of six trophies and yeah, no big deal. Anyway, so we also got told that we're gonna do the camera trial, and then we come back and then we deployed a team more, so we'd miss out on a bit of that. So we missed a few weeks of that trip. So it was a bit shorter than everyone else's, but not sufficient for my liking. Anyway, came back from from that camera patrol, had a great time. Literally, it was just sort of three weeks on the cans in the UK with you know all expenses paid basically. Um it was only a 48 hour activity, so we were there for like a week beforehand. Literally, like if you turn up, if you don't turn off on time for your little window, you get told like you've got to forfeit basically. And we literally were 10 minutes from, and this is before GPSs and stuff were like commonplace in vehicles, we had a hire truck or uh sorry, bus that they gave us. We were 10 minutes from being late. And I remember like pulling over and asking people, locals, like, do you know where such and such is and trying to navigate to this you know start point and just sort of like I mean we're gonna if we're late by one minute we've got to forfeit this thing. And we were just like we'd had we had a week in the UK so far and been enjoying ourselves, traveling all over the place, going to leads and stuff like that on the weekend. That I just remember we all looked at each other, no one said anything, but we're all sort of thinking, hmm, what if we were just 11 minutes late? Like, you know, if we were just one minute late, we could just get back to getting on the piss. But it was just sort of an unspoken thing everyone said with their eyes. Anyway, we made it on time, we banged it in. Uh it was it was it was definitely arduous and uh for even for just that short time because this dog cup's like a week long, different environment and everything, but it was a great time. And uh so we came back, deployed to T-Morr, was with support company, which was re-rolled as Delta Company essentially, so each of the support platoons just got given a number instead, and basically more just hung out with themselves. Pioneers I got put in with pioneers and um you know, and each each platoon got put in a FOB and we're out at Gleno for a bit, and then Christmas Day comes along, and basically everybody who was in that team got promoted, which was kind of cool. So my brother and I got promoted on Christmas Day 2007, which was also cool. So I got promoted to Lance Corps with him. We both went to Alpha Company, went to different platoons, and then we spent the rest of our time in Timor from there. Um came back in April, and I'd already started the put my application in for for um SASR selection for the 2008, so it was April 2008 that we came back for I think it was in July or August or something like that. And uh so I started the testing and everything, and it worked out that from the I got back on like the 4th of April, something like that, that I could have three days to get like acclimatized, I guess, back to home or whatever, and then I had to get stuck into the 13-week program because I also needed to take two weeks off or a week off to go down to Sydney, and that was like because we didn't have leave up straight away. It was like three days decompression, come back to work, and then and then you know, have some have some leave and I can go down to Sydney, right? So and then literally that would give me two weeks at the end to recover and get straight into selection. So it was like a real tight time frame. So I was just like, and again, just laser focus on that, right? To the detriment of a bunch of other things, particularly home life. Anyway, uh you know, uh, I don't remember doing the I was thinking. About this earlier, I don't remember doing the entry test before that, but I do remember doing the entry test when we turned up in Raff Base Pierce, which your previous um uh guest, Mick, was also and Corey were also on that um on that selection, and I would agree with Mick, it's definitely the swim test is definitely top three times I've ever been the coldest in my entire life. I got out of the pool, managed to make the time, but I was definitely the last dude out of the pool, and I like was so cold I couldn't articulate the muscles in my mouth to to talk, and I couldn't get my fingers to work to try and get to get changed. And like for at some I don't know whether it happened if my stuff didn't make it there, but some of our stuff, some of the people, some of us candidates, our stuff didn't make it on the plane, and so we had to borrow other people's PT gear. So some people you had to find somebody who had shoes of your same size and PT gear that would kind of fit, and then you would like literally they'd go and do the like the running test or whatever, and then you'd have to swap. And because there was like 200 of us there, so there was you know, but it was just like it was not a great way to start, you know, um an occasion uh an activity like that, you know, because it's just gonna get worse from there, right? So um I yeah, I remember remember being super cold, middle of the night. It was definitely dark at that point, you know, in the in the pool, and it was just in the middle of winter, it was very cold, and then um getting busted somewhere, getting dropped off short, and then having to walk in the dark and hearing like people like call out for medics and stuff like that, because they'd fallen over and rolled something or broke something or whatever, and um, and then you know, turning up and just subjecting myself to oh again, Corey spoke, I think even spoke about it as well, like the the the kit chick, which was which was a funny occasion. Again, same sort of thing, like, right, everyone, stripped down naked, and you're just kind of like, I don't really feel comfortable doing this, but like what other option have I got? And who really cared, you know, and they they'd intentionally bought a couple of the um female staff and the Corey talked about it as well. I think the dogs walking around, dog handles walking around. So I was really concerned about was the dog nipping it, you know, what pathetic excuse you call for a penis. Yeah, I just wanted a little thought was like a peanut or whatever and gone, you know, twisty or whatever, and just feel that he might have a little nibble at it. So that's all I was really concerned about was just like getting getting bitten, I guess. Um obviously didn't happen. Um I do remember hearing Corey say, or somebody saying, Okay, I'm gonna just gonna say it's it's cold and you I do remember that because I was towards yeah, towards the back the back of the room. Um and you know, and anyway, so I think it was Mick. It could have been. It was one of it was I've heard the I'm pretty sure it was definitely remember hearing it because I remember like everyone laughing at me, just being like, man, I'm not gonna laugh because like that might just vector in some DS onto me, and I don't need that kind of heat. But I think it was hilariously funny, like, man, I'd you know, would love to be able to like enjoy this moment a little bit more. Um and then you know, like, you know, get our gear on and get started and get stuck in and and um uh like honestly, it was it was a it was a great time. Um but like the problem I'd had is been like you were talking before, like as a teenager, from the age of like 14, just like laser focus on being you know being in the SAS. And so I find myself there and and at the risk of embarrassing myself, I didn't think it was as difficult as what I had imagined it to be over all those years. It's like you know, it's 10 years almost by this uh yeah, it's just shy 10 years. Like I think I was 23 at the time. It's almost 10 years of thinking about it, right? And obsessing about it, reading books and you know, all that kind of stuff. And so it just wasn't quite as difficult as what I thought it would be. You know, like there were certainly elements of it that were, and I was definitely under you know under pressure at at times. But I got a little complacent and and and and you know, it's my own fault, but we got to um Happy Wanderer, which is you know, two weeks in of the three weeks, and basically heard the other guy say, like, it's just five peaks in five days kind of stuff, right? And I and in my mind I'm kind of like, well, if I'm just here at the end, I'll be good and I'll go on to the next thing, right? Um and I didn't put in the required amount of effort, you know, guys were were banging out 30 plus kilometres in the morning before lunch and then after, and you weren't allowed to travel at night and you didn't have a watch, you know, so it was hard to know what the time was and you know whether you know what how early you wake up and that kind of stuff. I'm not great for waking up early, and you're literally out there by yourself and you're under your own steam. And there were times where I just thought, man, I could just like be happy with this and just go back and you know find something else to do with my life or whatever. Have those sort of moments you do when you're out there by yourself. So I got a little complacent, got off the bus half because you had to go to the Sterling Rangers to do the to do the um the activity. We came a several hour drive, several hour drive back, and um I remember being made to like write about stuff, you know, so like something about an ambush or something like that, you know, uh like to keep us occupied on the on the bus ride. So we weren't just falling asleep and getting getting some uh extra because you know you're then rolling into um happy uh lucky dip after you get off the bus, basically. Yep. Um so I remember getting off the bus, everyone forms up, they read out a half a dozen numbers, mine's one of them. They're like, right, you guys step over here, the rest of you is off you go. It's like hey, cool, you guys are you know, you've been removed from course. And um, you know, be remember being pretty devastated about it because I realized I'd realised probably you know day four that I like hadn't been put in the the amount of distance that I needed to do. And I'd had that conversation a couple of times with some of the DS where had a dude that was like X2RR who knew my name and everything and knew that we had mutual mates who'd kind of looked at like something and said, Oh mate, like if you put in a little you know, you should be right if you can you know just make up a couple of kilometres the next you know 36 hours, something like that. Um and I just you know I couldn't couldn't do it. I couldn't you know I had to get up to like 1050 kilometers, what they were kind of expecting. And I you know, I just like 120 or something like that. Just wasn't far enough enough. And um and I realised it was just literally it was just complacency, you know. Like I just thought if I was just here at the you know at the end, I'd be fine, kind of thing. And you know, it was a really foolish kind of attitude to have, and so that's probably like my second you know, biggest mistake. I mean, I've had plenty of them, but like in terms of of that, I'd suggest anybody else, you know, you want to do make sure you know you put in 100% all the time. Um otherwise you might find yourself you know falling short and being disappointed about that. I mean, had the opportunity to go back and had that conversation at the end, or happy with the uh other aspects. Um, but you know, as it turns out, my wife at the time wasn't keen on living in Western Australia. We were both from Sydney, she said, can you just like consider this Sydney, you know, unit because you know we can live there for a little bit and then you can try for this other one again, you'll be a little bit older and better and equipped and all that kind of stuff. And and I was, you know, again embarrassed myself, I was a bit like, man, it's just for you know, like you know you know, they're not no concept of it. No concept at all, like so foolish and naive and just idiotic, right? And uh and at this point, like there are things coming out, but we're not you know necessarily finding out about them or reading about them or understanding the importance of them because they're kind of maybe a little sanitized, you know, for for military publication, you know, because you've got like the army rag and stuff like that. So there's only so much things that they can say. And I think if it's still around that uh Aussie New Zealand Defender magazine, that was a big one. Yeah, um, so you know, as it turns out, 2008 Delta companies over in the GAN banging it in, you know, therefore at that time trips were like four months, and they spent something like 90 odd days on in vehicles on ops out you know, outside F a B. Like literally just banging it in night after night.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:43

I think Declan talked about it the other day when he's we were there at the same time. Yeah. And they used to feed us like fucking music bars and every all the good stuff. You boys used to get everything that was good. Yeah, we didn't went to the mess a few times and we're special. First time I had an Alaskan king crab.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:58

Man, I I have a I have a general rule. That far away from um the s the ocean, I don't eat seafood, especially a landlocked country. Yeah. I know that there are like lakes and dams and stuff in in Afghanistan, but man, I don't you know, even here in Australia, too far from the coast, I don't do I don't do seafood. Um but yeah, man, we're we're special. That's why we you know we we special, that's why we get it, yeah. Just helps to inflate our opinion of ourselves, basically. Yeah, so I um like I said, foolishly, you know, thinking like man, that like this is like you know, these are the amateurs kind of thing. Not maybe not that like that, that's another word you use, but just like these guys aren't you know doing what expect. But I was like, right, cool, no worries. It's uh it's a reasonable request because you know she's allowed me to you know to to attempt this and then she's known that I want to do it. So so come back to uh to R and um some other guys were successful there, some other guys weren't. They made it to the end, got told come back next year, you know, came back the following year, got told, sorry, come back next year. You know, there's a couple of people like that where like you know in my mind I was like, those are the people that you wanted because that guy came back the first time and the next very next day was getting ready and doing all and like maintaining maintaining everything they needed to do to go around 12 months later. Why would you not take someone like that? Like, you know, he maybe you have a slight disagreement with his personality, but I mean that kind of motivation I uh that is hard to find, I think. Anyway, what do I know? I'm not a member of that unit, so you know, he's not the first person that's happened to the uh mates of mine, and they've ended up coming to two commando and being very successful, and that guy's that particular guy's still there killing it. But um yeah, so you know, I was like, cool, no worries, all right. Let's yeah and uh also too, it was a bit of like loyalty in my mind. So I never wanted to serve within another battalion. Once I got to two, it was like I there's no way I can be loyal to any other unit after being to this one because that just seems fake. It's like following a football team and then next year changing it because you you know, for whatever reason, you know, you live in that town or your player that you like goes to that player goes to that team. Yeah, no, they're not, mate. But uh you just wait and see if it happens at the end of the year, right? So I the my concept of loyalty is like you you're there till the end, like literally, you know, you don't live until the the the final buzzer. Like I don't leave the football until the the the game is done, you know. So there's losers leaving at like halftime because their team's losing. Man, what do they think? Anyway, I digress, but so I'm like, I can't the uh the the I the idea just doesn't sit well with me. As it turns out, they're gonna be changing their name shortly. So that was how I kind of got around that one inside my head, because whilst I was on selection, you know, the birthday happened, they changed the name, and so I marched into you know two commander when I eventually got there. Um so I you know, like I yeah, I came back from that, I was a little disappointed in myself. Actually, to be perfectly honest, it's the first time I ever experienced depression, like I was proper depressed. Um and in and you know, my significant other than some other people didn't really understand that, you know, and I was mostly it was because I was disappointed in myself, you know, this dream I've had for ages and I just didn't put in and you know, here I am, and you know, anyway, so I was a little disappointed in myself and and needless to say it was you know it was not I wasn't in a great mood. And anyway, so you know, I I basically I put my app in for you know oh yeah, so I've come back and put my app in for to to go to go around next year, and um and then you know 2009 comes around and I get posted to Mordiplatoon with my brother. It's like literally four years since I've done the course, so I can't remember anything, you know. Um so I'm kind of useless there, but I've already got my app in, I've already done the testing, I've got the date and everything, and the opportunity comes around to do um the recon course, so I take that, and it's kind of like I didn't do the 30-week program previously because I was kind of like, you know, a bunch of other things kind of get me prepared. My just general like PT was pretty good, right? So I was like, and in my mind, I'm like, pfft it's a training course, it's not the same thing, it's not selection. You know, as it turns out, they actually did add the S in there before I did it. So it that was the first one, apparently, where they it became commando training and selection course. So they actually had this that word in the in the title because that allowed them then to make decisions that they weren't previously allowed to do, apparently, where they would say to somebody like at head at the training center, like, we can't take this person, like it's not a selection, you're taking him. Like, can he pass? Did he pass all the lessons? Yep, cool, you're taking him, kind of thing. So it was a little bit more of a gatekeeper aspect to it, I guess. Anyway, so um yeah, so I think it's May of 2009. Go down there to uh Singleton or Yeah, go to go to Singleton and the whole thing's in Singleton. It's wet, it's raining for like the first two weeks. Selection. Yeah, this is selection for uh how long was this it ended up being like five weeks. Yeah, it's about 35 days or something like that. It was it yeah, it was it was long. Miserable? Yeah, well, I wouldn't say miserable. It like the first two weeks I remember were pretty close to it, it just rained the whole time. It was kind of yeah, it's kind of shit, right? But um the fact that I was not learning a lot of things completely new for the first time, because there were dudes who, you know, like come from other cores, or even guys who come from other cores but had like been on say Delta Company or a previous rotation recently, and spent so much time hanging out with them that got got the bargain, decided to do it. So there were like some medics and other and and some SIGs and that that were that were, and some that were successful and some not so much. But um like for some of them, they're literally learning things the first time. Like I remember the Keela, the the medic that we had in Apple Tune at one point says to somebody in the you know years later, like, Oh, this is Chris. Chris taught me how to pack my pack on selection. And I didn't realize at the time when I was helping people out that you know I was actually teaching them things for the first time, right? Like I just they asked me a question, I'm like, oh man, this is this is how I do it, this is how I've seen it done. So for those, some of those people, they're literally learning this stuff the first time. With me, it was just a variation of some if you might attack story new size, a bit more comfortable and it was a little less of a learning curve for me. And so it was more I could concentrate on those other things, like performing and putting in effort and you know, like just you know, um do it doing my best as opposed to like the pressure of also learning stuff for the first time. So it was a little bit better, and also it got to a point where it just felt like a really long X, like it felt like a long talisman's aver or something like that, you know, just without the digging. And uh so uh like it was still challenging, don't get me wrong. Um, but but uh not not anywhere near like what probably again sort of expected it to be, um, or that you know other people might expect it to be, or that you know, in comparison to the other unit. Um but it was still it was it was a great time, and you know, again, the really great thing about it was that all the instructors there had all just come away from a ro uh trip, and like if it wasn't their first, it was the second, some cases third, and they were all combat veterans. So everything that they were telling us, they had literally almost done themselves and they'd learnt the battlefield. Right. There even some cases, you know, sadly we had some killed in action by that point. Certainly a lot of woundings in action. So there were people that you know were literally you know, the stuff we were learning, they were you know making that um connection between why we were learning it and you know why it was important and to take it seriously and that kind of stuff. So you know, it wasn't people just reading out of a textbook sort of thing, you know, and just regurgitating stuff that they'd been taught and slightly to be tested. So that was something of your kind of realization, and it was also like being told a few times that you know if you pass selection here, you get on the rear cycle and you pass, you're going straight into a company and you're going overseas. That's basically how it's been going, you know, sort of the last couple couple of Rios or something like that, um, which is exactly what happened basically. Um so yeah, it was like said 35 days or something like that. And actually, the funny thing about it is you had no, you had no, you knew what the start date was, you had no idea what the end date was, you're just there to the end, right? Um so at one point where you know I think we'd actually technically finished, but or kind of, but you know, they made us do one last PT session because they were trying to get rid of a couple of last people and hoping that they'd you know they'd drop the ball at the end there and like pack it in. Um and that's where like I said, I met uh Corey and Mick Um and you know no no Norm wasn't on wasn't on our I think it was the Rio bitches before us. So you guys were all for the same Rio? Yeah, yeah. So I'd like I you know that's where I met those guys and yeah, we all end up being Delta Company together in X-ray platoon. Yep. And so that was cool. That's reinforcement cycle. Yeah, sorry, reinforcement cycle. Just for listeners. Yeah, sorry. Um try not to do those acronyms myself. Uh so you know, all the courses that you need to be a basic level commander, I guess you could say. Yeah. And this is nine, twelve months? At this point, it's only about six. So we so we did we started selection in May and we were all done by December. I failed advanced close quarter battles, the ACQB course, and had to come back and do it again. And it was I don't know if it's still the same case, but you could only put two cracks at it back then, and then that was it. You could you know n never to reapply sort of thing. I'd and what happened there? Give us a quick Yeah, well, you know, you had Nick Hill on and he was the SI, the senior instructor for that one. And um uh so basically amongst the uh essentially you could put um you had uh f two safety um uh what's the word safety safety breaches, right? Um and then and then you were done. So um I managed to make it to the end of the first two weeks, and I think it's like the last day or two, it might have even been into the next week, maybe you start all the room floor combat stuff, so all entering a room and engaging targets and that kind of thing. And um I already had one safety, and it was a really silly one, you know, instead of uh from a pistol not having my safety on. So like what you would do at the range after shooting a serial is you'd clear your weapons and you know the the drill was just to use your thumb to engage a safety catch, but I hadn't like realised that I hadn't engaged it properly, and so you know it was considered a safety breach, and it's probably it's a little bit, you know, uh too it's probably a little bit harsh, right? It's probably not quite that serious now, but you know, having said that, you want to maintain a high standard, you know, and and plenty of other people passed, you know, not doing that, right? Of all the shooting we did, never had a problem. So it clearly can be done, right? I was just not that good. Um admittedly the the shooting was difficult, and I'm not great with a pistol, I'm pr probably better at throwing it at people, and even then I'm not that good. Um that I don't honestly don't know how I passed. And I remember you know, Declan was you know um talking about it on his um on his own. That's it, yeah. One or the other day. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, at the time, uh you know, this is not their fault or anything, but the the all the we had almost one instructor for every student on the course because the unit had just introduced this um particular course and it as a as a prerequisite. So everyone that was already in the unit had to go back and they'd all done a CQB course and now it was known as ACQB, so they had to go back and do it, right? So these guys were getting um their instructor qualifications so they could then take it to the unit and the unit could run one internally and and get everyone qualified, right? Because you had a whole lot of shooters back there that technically, you know, weren't qualified technically. Anyway, so um there was a lot of oversight and those guys were under a huge amount of pressure, right? And you know, Nick Hill is a is a is is a um he's a professional and he was a hard taskmaster, right? Um and and so you know those guys definitely were feeling it. And some people probably you know a bit more so than others and how they deal with the stress and like their competence and stuff like that, because there were it's probably one or two people there, you know, that like a little out of their depth, right? As you know, in in the situation they're in. But you know, that's that happens. Anyway, so you know, we're all see out of our depth as well, some of us as students. And um I you know I remember like you know trying to shoot with the you know with iron sights on the M MP5 and the you know the old um S10 respirator and stuff like that and it's fogging up and you've got to try and like squeeze your face, you know, there's no way to do it because it's just you know there's there's stuff between you and the and the weapon that you just can't you know get the kind of anyway. So managed to pass, right? Some of us took a little bit longer than others, and I honestly don't know how I managed to do it, but I did. And then like I said, I think it might have been like the last day of that two weeks or something. There was like a little intro to room floor combat, or it was the following the following week, whatever it was. But anyway, I made it like to the end of that day and um and had another safety breach, and that was me done. Um remember sitting there with Nick Hill, you know, and he was like, mate, yeah, some people got it, some people don't. Off you go, there's a plane, you know. I'll see ya, see ya with the next like come back on the next the next one, right? Um he was nice about it, you know, but it was it was kind of funny as you know the the situation. I was sitting there in the room all by myself. He was just sort of I was just waiting for something, you know, whatever it was, and he just happened to be in there and just came, sat down, and started talking to me. Anyway, um so I go back to two and again I'm I'm gonna. So you got all the way back to back to Townsville. Back to Townsville. Back to two R. Yeah, right. So sorry, I shouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:44

So how far so how how far in of this uh reinforcement you're in?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:49

Uh I want to say a few weeks. We'd done like uh two weeks of heavy weapons, we'd done demolitions, and it might have oh, our first one was roping. So literally we've we finished selection on like a Thursday, got knocked off or Wednesday night, got knocked off and got told come back Friday night, you starting Saturday morning. So we had like 36 hours or something like that. It was like Thursday afternoon. I remember walking out of there, going hang out with my parents and coming back and you know, being on the on the bus back to uh Ramwick because that's where we were getting picked up from. Um, and finding out Michael Jackson had had died, and then getting on this bus and driving to Holesworthy, and then literally like getting strapped to the uh a a rope to sit like hanging from the bottom of a Blackhawk helicopter on a Saturday night with the rest of me mates with their arms locked in, just going, This is the coolest thing ever. But also like, what the hell am I doing with my life? You know, like I'm suspended underneath a helicopter on a Saturday night. I can see the city in the distance, we're flying around Holesworthy in the dark, and you know, like caving ladders and and and repelling and and fast robin kind of stuff, and then you know, all the climbing aspect to it. So that was the first one that they banged out straight up so it was, you know, um, and then it kind of got into like a bit more a structure where it was Monday to Friday work and then weekends off kind of thing. Um so I want to say that course is like four or five in. So it's probably around August or September or something like that, because I got back to um Townsville and um And you've got to wait for the next ring. You've got to wait for the next next well, wait for the next segment, the next um ACQB course running. So as long as I could get on the whatever the next one was, it didn't matter. So I yeah, so I go back to Townsville, I'm hanging out there, kind of a little depressed about the whole thing again, you know, because you know, like will I be able to make it again because I only got one more shot at this, otherwise, you know, everything's been sorted for nothing and I'll have you know another option or whatever, which is not true because you know, could obviously go back west. Anyway, uh 2010 comes around, I'm gonna make some phone calls and getting myself on the next course that was running. And basically they were running one early in the year because they had some like individual guys from the unit that needed to do it, and and then also they had like a number of the previous Rios. There were quite there were probably I don't know, half a dozen at least from mine that hadn't hadn't made it. Like one guy literally the last run through and the last afternoon, last day of the course, got failed. Like you've been there the four weeks, they had no problems, and and literally like it was it don't want to get into it as a little bit of politics. They were trying to get rid of the other person, and unfortunately they had to safety both of them to get the other dude, and so I'll mate I'll dad to come back and do it again. Anyway, we were allowed to complete the rest of the Rio. So we came back and did what the um close quarter fighting, which is all your your uh knife hand, chop people in the throat, you know, stuff with JJ Kale and um which is just terrifying, you know. Like you sit in a room, you're like, right, I need a need a volunteer, and you're just like, Man, can I become invisible? Because I'm about to find out what pain is, you know, some of the stuff I seen him do to people, you know, even just in like in just a training environment. Um having said that, like, you know, great training.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:31

And then we had to do um uh what was it uh we did the basic parachute course, the w SF water module where you jump into water. That's what makes us special. And um I think there was also drop we end up doing a split. So usually you would do the like you got those sort of three methods of insertion, C air and learn, like you. seals. We all did because you have to be basic paratrooper and uh as a commando, we all did air. Then some of us went off and did some of them went off and did amphibious ops and some of us I was one of them did did uh driving so I went and did the driving uh which is just learning how to drive a rover which wasn't particularly like taxi or anything else it's like two weeks hanging out in single and driving around Newcastle and stuff or whatever it was. Anyway so we did like an aspect called bums on seats which is just like a familiarization and you're able to basically sit in a boat and you understand like the safety aspects and what your responsibilities are. So you do that for a couple days. Then we went and you know um did driving and the other guys went and did two weeks of bo whatever is a boat and like Declan said it's just I'd you know once I got into the unit had to end up doing that that course at some point and also we did like a whole lot of like exercises with them and they're just a nightmare. Bose is just the worst thing ever who'd be in the navy like honestly like literally you get them out for one minute you get them out for one day the amount of work that's to done to get them packed up and cleaned up and that's just and then they just never work and it's a nightmare and then sit on a boat for who knows just waiting for like life to pass by is just a killer man. Just getting wet and all that kind of shit. But anyway so I digress which I do a lot anyway so we are able to do everything else on the Rio with the idea that we'll come back and pass those other aspects of it right so um I remember you know like everyone else being pretty excited with themselves in that late uh early December when we finished basic para and they were all qualified and they were going like the guys we did there last night jumping guys were high fibing each other that's it that's the that's basically that six seven eight months of whatever the whole thing from selection through to Rio they go into the unit and I was going back to Townsville for Christmas and um and and you know who knows an uncertain future. Anyway 2010 comes around get myself on the next course bang it in pass thankfully some would say it's probably not as hard as the other course but you know anyway um and then you know the whole posting order stuff oh I had to then do the commando urban operations so you could you had to do you had to pass ACQB to do C U O so the urban operations package was another two weeks. So yeah basically just it was a six week uh thing and I got I think I got the week off from the um knife handing people in the throat punching people in the throat thing because we'd already done it and they didn't seem to need to do it again I guess or whatever. And then back to Townsville ready for a posting order for the whole process of the you know to to go through it to go through uh the system. And um and we're coming I get the phone call to come down Anzac Day 2010 to get badged at the Dawn Service which was pretty blind. That's pretty fucking cool. Yeah I've got a picture of myself and the two other guys that you know um that I went to Delta Company with um so you fly back down to Sydney? Yeah fly back down to Sydney for the day um night before bang in the Dawn service there at two commando uh real you know credit like it is any any dawn service real somber moment and everything like that and then the CO goes right cool we've got some got some new members of the unit we're gonna um hand them the berets here and I got my um it's funny because a lot of stuff just went in a box for years and I only just recently you know twelve months ago or whatever got it out and banged it up on the wall and my certificate to say that I'm qualified commando it was it was raining at the dawn service right and so it's literally just like gone in a bag, gone home gone in a box and then just lived in a box right so it actually well no it it's still intact but it had like fused so when I wanna what had happened in all the moving that I wanna I always wonder why like why is there a sound of broken glass in this box right and so when I eventually opened it up after years with all the other stuff I'd stuffed in there realized that I in moving it from house to house to house um that the the uh the glass screen on the frame had broken I was like that's pretty impressive actually you know went all that effort and extra cost and got glass right and uh that with that that special and um and so basically I you know got a new frame and put it in there to put it on the wall right so it's it it you can't tell unless you take it out of the frame but like I had to cut around the edges because it looks like a it looks like a pirate map you know kind of thing like it's all the you know the way that it's frayed around the so it seats in a frame that's smaller that you can that hides all that. So it's on the wall now you know just so I can like remember how cool I used to be I'm sitting in my study big noting myself to myself yeah you know friends come over like oh just come to this room for a second I want to show you something. No I don't do that but but I just thought why not put it on the wall I got it why put it in this box it's silly you know like why not you know like it's been long enough anyway so yeah though that was pretty cool I got a picture from it you know we're get our uh a barrier on the antake day I was a good time gun delta company um once you get back to you know Townshill get your movies so you go back to Townshill get all your shit I'm still waiting for the like you know pack my house up formal like use as your start date go down all kind of stuff right my question did you ditch the fucking uh crap out by then and bare on back to Townshell? No I didn't I didn't uh I like I couldn't I think I went back the same day and got on the beers with the boys right back up at Townshill in the afternoon. Um but I like I yeah I didn't uh I didn't make a big deal about it. Uh in that few weeks while I was waiting um the CSM took uh issue with me and maybe that's because I had a little relaxed a relaxed attitude around around work or whatever but basically sent me off to admin companies is this the same CSM? No no different one this time different one he um it wasn't unusual for him to be like this apparently because he you know he was jockeying to get himself on this GAN trip or whatever that was happening in like 2010 or 11 or whatever that Tuaro got or might have been 12 anyway they got a couple of trips at that point but um yeah he just didn't I I don't know whether it was like what I'd done and he was you know one of those haters or whatever he just didn't like my attitude or whatever. I don't know. I wasn't like I didn't walk around telling people what to do or nothing or how big I am and no you know I just I just tried to hide in PT all day because ultimately I wasn't in the unit anymore as far as I was concerned no one was giving me any work to do and I was just waiting to get my posting order right so I was like like days away from that. So I think he just you know sent me off to admin company for like a what ended up being like a two weeks or less than that and I you know did a couple of guards or whatever just a couple of little knife before I before I left the unit. Anyway um it finally comes through and they're like cool pack the house up fly down we'll put you up in a hotel your missus can look for a you know um a place to stay because you are going on your mission rehearsal exercise because Delta Company's deploying so I literally like I remember it being like fly land on a Thursday yeah come to work Friday morning put some guns in a trunk get told knock off come back tomorrow morning Saturday morning we get on a plane we're flying to Kaltana in South Australia yeah cool no worries and literally go and bang in a three week um mission rehearsal exercise where you do all your preparation for going on ops um and then um come back and get told you're going on the advanced party Chris so you've got one week off and then you're going to the GAN and I'm like yeah buddy let's do this so that turned out to be uh my birthday my 25th birthday I was rocking up to work to deploy to the GAN so like I landed in country on my birthday because you know you go back in time so that was kind of cool as a nice way to remember 25th birthday and um and man I was like man I literally like you know the other guys had finished the Rio and gotten there you know the beginning of the year so they've been there for six months or whatever. I didn't know nobody except a couple of guys in my team one of the other guys had also done ACQB with me he was in the same boat so him and I got put in the same team he'd come a few weeks earlier than me so I got you know told like Chris you're going to X ray platoon team five it was just like it's like Swahili to me. I don't I was like yeah cool whatever but I'm I'm I'm here let's let's do it right um there was like at some point someone said to me like oh you were in Mazza's team but um you know you know you're with the you're the you're the Jundy team or whatever and I was like I have no idea what they're talking about and it turns out what uh team five was for that trip was the mentor team for the indigenous personnel that we were partner partnering with the partner force this provincial police unit that we put together because basically as it's been touched on before in other episodes you got told to commando if you don't get some partner force no ops for you CLA so we're just like let's just like let's find somebody so we I don't know we invented this you know police unit or whatever we did. That's not true that's not true. They they were they were they were official but they also and I think I feel like the statute of limitations is you know is is sufficiently surpassed now but they were basically working for a ward he's he's now gone but um uh he basically with like his private security force that he then got you know recognized as provincial it was called the PPRC now I can't remember what the R was but provincial police company yeah and um response company or something like that. And basically we take some of them out on gigs with us which meant we could do gigs jobs and you know he you know they got paid by you know you know in US dollars or whatever and you know kind of legitimized him a little bit because he was obviously planning for the end of the war and like you know making a making a you know bit for politics or whatever before he got blown up. But you know it was reported so he owned like the road the highway between TK Tarrancout and down south to Kandahar which was like a massive US base down there. And it like reported I don't know how true it is but some guys were telling us like you know 5,000 US dollars per truck which I think is just incredible amounts of money. I I I feel like maybe that was local currency but anyway a lot like there were a lot a lot a lot of trucks driving up and down that highway like a lot right so he you know he's definitely making money. Meanwhile these cops were just like they weren't your you know your typical law enforcement you know they weren't going to the the academy learning how to like write tickets and enforce law and get you know getting called the domestic you know violence you know reports and stuff like that and households or whatever. They literally were just they'd be in a checkpoint on the highway and make sure people were paying the money and protecting the road from bandits and stuff like that so that the vehicles would get through and you know old mate gets his money. So you know not to say that like to diminish them in any way but they weren't what you would think is typical police despite the fact that's what they were kind of referred to as policemen. And they were making 80 bucks US a month which for them was a was a was a decent coin right um only problem was they were banging it in with SF dudes and they weren't a hundred percent keen on that some of them you know they weren't really keen on getting um you know blown up or shot in the face which I can understand no one no one wants that so you know their enthusiasm sometimes during some jobs was lacking but I mean for the most part they were pretty keen and you know they like uh I think Declan spoke about it on his they're not particularly nationalistic you know in terms of the whole country but certainly tribally you know on the little village that they came from just like we are with you know where you where you grew up that kind of thing they're you know very passionate about protecting that and the people that they cared about and that was their opportunity to do that and get paid you know and survive because otherwise it was probably becoming a farmer and farming poppies and you know getting the shot in the face by the DEA you know or something like that or you know getting your hands broken by the Taliban because despite the fact that the poppies you know producing opium was used to fund the cultics was used to fund the Taliban it was against the law in Afghanistan to farm poppies. So if you got caught farming poppies they'd usually bust your hands off apparently was one of the typical one of the typical um punishments for that. So you know the irony. Yeah I know yeah crazy so hard to explain to anybody it makes no sense when I'm saying it right now you know like it's it doesn't even make any sense but just yeah it's very ironic anyway so um yeah so I literally was in the unit a month and I find myself in Afghanistan yeah exactly mate and obviously at this stage too there's a few KIAs uh for the unit a few for the SASR and how's your mental state well it became certain became real real yeah so you know I we got called in we're on the Rio got called in um to let us know that um Mason Edwards had been uh tragically killed in action you know on MRE for the that trip so you know that kind of a little bit but I didn't know the people and I was still on Rio and I wasn't in the unit and so it's not my attitude wasn't I wasn't blasé about it but I was kind of like I didn't even know if I'm going there yet you know is it you know and I don't know the bloke. So I it wasn't s necessarily connection. But we landed and and uh like four of our six team members we went early.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:59

What month?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:00

It was June, right? So we'd like June. Yeah we went in mid-June, right? It was my birthday like I said before and so 2010. 2010. So it's literally seven days before the chopper crash right so we Oh is it yeah right. Yeah so so we land with the other mentor team and some of the advanced elements from the company headquarters right like the CSM H and uh and and like and one of the int dudes and I think that was about it really. And then there was just us from our two mentor teams right to try and like you know um get all the info and everything beforehand and start getting acclimatised and everything because those guys are obviously looking to phase out and we want to you know we're taking over the job from them as well in terms of a a reasonably new kind of um uh aspect of our job because you know we hadn't been mentoring these guys on previous in too many previous rotations. I think it was like we were like maybe the second or third rotation where they were you know they were our our thing. Prior to that guys had done other rotations with the uh National Army. Anyway, I remember getting there and um and our our two IC like you know walking past one of the boys from our company that we were taking over from sitting there and it's like hey mate you know they're there it turns out they know they were uh in each other's wedding parties and stuff like that and then from 3R together and you know I think they'd done selection and all Rio together and just gone to different companies or whatever. Anyway, you know I I they introduced me to him I was like this is Chris cool you know we're chatting and I just listened to these stories and you know like literally just I'm literally just a spectator listening to them talk about you know previous trips and stuff like that and what's been happening on this actual rotation. Anyway it's late one night and someone comes like literally middle of the morning like three in the morning someone comes bursting in the room that we're in where it's like a transit accommodation and they're like is the they're looking for you know some officer they're like is there such and such here whatever acronym it was and next thing you know it's like no mate's not in here light goes on and someone's like man that sounds pretty serious and so the CSM gets up and disappears into the into the command centre and anyway we all go back to sleep because you know there's no real context to it and don't under fully understand it anyway comes in at some point and and lets us know that three guys have been killed and who they were and uh and that maybe some more or also you know they're being flown to Germany and that kind of stuff at quick sticks because you know it's pretty uh uncertain at this point just given the the sheer amount of injuries that happened and and then the two IC turns to me and and uh because he's visibly upset and uh he says to me Scotty Palmer he goes that's that bloke you met the other day that's Scotty and I just remember thinking man like literally like two days go sitting you know in neck next to this dude um you know listen to him talk and everything and now he's gone. So that's yeah it definitely became real and I I didn't know Tim uh Tim Apple well but he was he was a platoon uh platoon sergeant for Pioneer platoon um when I was at two and yeah he was a he was a yeah he's a big presence and a big character and I wasn't really mates with him like in what past sake of two RR sorry yeah two are so he'd he'd come across in you know the year or two before Dunrio back then you had to relinquish your rank so he relinquished his rank as a sergeant in his seniority and became private and so that's why you know he um uh yeah he's that's his rank is different um is listed there and and so I you know I like and I I I'd never met Ben Chuck. Like I said I'd been the unit literally two seconds so I didn't really you know know anybody but I just remember it it like I said became very real at that point you know long story short my shit story like it would become very real immediately just like the kind of seriousness at all and literally it was like their last job and then that was it they were get packing up and going home. Yeah you know like who would have known you know it can happen anytime but it's just one of those things like it always seems I mean for some of them you know um and this was like one of the deadliest years for the Australian army in in country.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:32

Yeah well just before you turn up that uh young Jacob Mole and Darren Smith Yeah so the two those two snappers were were killed.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:39

It wasn't too many weeks later and Jason Brown was killed. Yeah Jason Bughes as well from uh Six Rep yeah Peter was killed as well yeah mate and then yeah fuck Six R lost a couple more boys later on there Kirby Dale I think uh Crash McKinney I think yeah well yeah so that was was that the engagement that uh Dan won his Dan Kieran went to these uh Crash Crash McKinney um all so for some of them whether the weren't not not like not to sound insensitive but if they weren't a member of the SOTG the only reason you would know about it happening was because you know they'd have that comms blackout and then eventually you know we get told what it was. So you know um it yeah definitely I must admit it didn't really um didn't really uh reflect on my mortality at that point much you know it just kind of was just like well that's the business we're in right um but you know to your brother has he done a rotation I think he might have I think I think he might have done it in the Christmas of 2010. Yeah right because he came right yeah he's all I'm pretty sure yeah he was there I tag team then came over in 10 because he was back at yeah I think by that time he might have gone with with two um or something like that. But yeah I'm pretty sure because he came on maybe no maybe it was the end of 2010 because he's my niece was born he came back for her birth so maybe yeah we were over there maybe the I can't remember it's a little bit hazy that I asked him. But yeah certainly we we were if we weren't over there at the same time it was definitely like one in the next one out. Which is worse for your mum. Yeah even worse right it's just like you know once the danger's over with one it's the other one's in there. So I mean Spawnflake there all the time you know if anyone deserves a medal it's her you know like keeping her shit together. You know and and yeah so it yeah I didn't didn't really like you know reflect on my mortality or or think about it too much. But certainly it was like this is the business we're in it's busy you know it's yeah it's it it's um and also at the same time kind of like this is you know I'm in the environment which I've been you know wanting to be for such a long time and it was everything that I thought it would be and even even more so. You know like as a mentor in the mentor team um you know we'd we'd uh sometimes we we go as an entire team other times we go out just as a pair we take you know any uh you know s maybe from ten through to maybe thirty you know of the partner force and we go and clear these buildings with them and just basically you know we train them in the in the barracks in the in our um in our camp camp russell and uh and then go and like lead them and direct them and control them out in the field out on a job. Meanwhile you know the rest of the platoon is in their teams on these high features just sitting in the sun like you're just thinking like you know sucked into those guys they're just sitting up on this feature in the sun and this bald feature in the in the hot desert sun and here I am sitting in the nice um you know uh like cool shade of the green belt in an orchard somewhere they're handing me pomegranates fresh off the off the trees and stuff like that's the first time I ever tasted a pomegranate it's delicious. And um and admittedly it was a bit dangerous you know we're banging into all the you know literally clearing an entire village you know with these guys but most of the time we're already in that process of like the Vietnamization that they had back in back during that conflict you know where we were like taking a little step back and you know giving them all responsibility. So we still have that in our mind. I mean you know we were getting involved in it but I mean um other people who are in Delta Comp at the same time you've had on before I've already talked about like their kinetic um um uh experiences there I was around for those but I wasn't in any of them so you know my entire trip whilst I did shoot at the range of zero weapons and help you know the uh the the um partner force do it I didn't fire a single shot in anger because there just there was never a time where I see an enemy that's how I was you know that's how I was trained see a bad guy you shoot him right so we never really got that close I did see a bad guy one time or four of them but uh it was such a like at like an instant exposure that you know it was over literally in a blink of an eye if I had it blinked at the wrong time I would have missed him. Um we got time for me to tell that story yeah for fucking run back run back first let's tell tell me about the first time you got shot at well that's what I'm gonna say yeah yeah so I I I might be I might be meshing two occasions together but I'm pretty sure we got told to pull over into this village there was some bad news we find out Triver Jason Brown's been killed in action and they're not they're not too far away. I mean they're like they're still a distance but we can kind of support move to support potentially and uh and also too there's just like there's obviously the AME um aeromedical evacuation aspects of it as well so we got told to stay in place and I remember you know seeing Mick um he's previously talked about it you know like taking a moment and being really upset and you know I find out later what that's that's all about and I like I think that story in itself is quite incredible. You know like just you know like I said it's a small world in in in the infantry despite the fact you know a lot of people served anyway so we get told our team you know we don't have any of the partner force with with us for but we like we they're probably there in in their vehicles or whatever but we get told right you're going up on this feature we're gonna secure this location and you know we're gonna wait out for further information everything so we go up there and um there's there's five of us in the team and I think what what we've been doing is leaving one member back there and we would go and live in the Candak for a couple days and that was they'll build rapport with them. And like yeah that there's a whole lot of stories from that as well but that was the cool SF bit right anyway so we there's this five of us and we're up on this little feature just a sort of like I don't know hill wouldn't call it a mountain or anything that's just a bit of a hill and so team commander and two of the boys sitting over there and we're about a hundred meters away myself and and Oppo and we're basically just facing opposite directions. And my Oppo he has um he's carrying an AK 47 and the third man in the other group's got a um RPK right so there's a bit you know heavier caliber weapon systems um and um so that you know he's sitting there with the team commander and the two IC anyway we're sitting there we're talking we're facing back down into you know so we've 360 degree kind of view and everything and we're facing back down to where our cars are and we can see the other other call signs out in there little locations and everything and um just hear this this bang sound and we we turn and look at each other and I'm like a little unsure about what that was and then I go is that what I think it is and just as I say that hear another bang and he goes yeah I think it is and then one of us says do you reckon that's it us and it goes ah and the other the response was I'm not sure and then bang another one's like yeah I think it's us should we move? Yeah we probably should move so we we can tell that it's from behind us and what it is is is it's someone has been shooting at us but it's literally on the limit of this particular oh yeah bullet's trajectory right so we're not getting the crack thump we're just getting the the report of the of the round and so that's way back where the guy with the rifle is right and and we're not hearing any our end and and so we literally get up spin around and we run you know five ten metres away and there's this little depression in the ground that's sort of like the beginning of a reentrant you know for a creek. And and um by this time the other three guys have um because they've got the heavy weapon system right they're starting to fire that at their RPKs you know and they're um you know adjusting their fire and everything so giving the uh bad guys the good news right because they're thinking like they've identified us as as Australian knowing that we have a smaller caval weapon ri rifle and so that we can't reach as far as we're there because they're probably like a thousand meters away, right? Anyway so this green treasure starts going Out and they're just like, oh, we weren't expecting that. Anyway, meanwhile, back at the ranch, we've ducked into this little creek line, and as I'm running up the opposite side of it, it was all dry and just rock. I've slipped on the way down, I've released the magazine catch on my M4, and the magazine has fallen out, slammed on the ground. My mate laughs at me because he sees it, you know, it was such a stupid thing to do, and I managed to scoop it up all in one go, put it back in, land on the edge of the of the other side of this little um you know depression in the ground that we're going to use as cover, and literally look through my site, and just like I said, if I'd blinked at the wrong time, I would have missed it. See these four guys dressed in black just cutting big schwash stickers around the corner of this compound because they'd literally stood up on this mound, fired at us, and it was just the limit of the for the round to make it to us. So it literally landed the guy, other guys said, because they were facing that way, it landed in between our two locations to that sort of like 50 hundred meter distance, right? Literally, and that's why you know we sort of didn't really know what it was. And I literally seen like the briefest moments, and you know, and that was it. And I was like, well, there's no point shooting because I can't even I can't even reach that far. Like they're that small, like I know that they're over 400 metres away, yeah, and it's just a waste of time. And yeah, they're they're out and they're out of view, so we'll just wait and hopefully we'll you know they'll they'll come back and we'll get another shot or whatever, and and they didn't. Um and so you know, that's my shit story about the first time I got shot at. That's uh it's not as it's not as exciting as people think, but I always think it's funny because it's like literally like, is that what I think it is? And he was like the opposite that was with me, it was his third rotation, right? Like he was another direct entry guy. He'd literally just gone Delta Company, come back, Charlie Company rotation, come back, Delta Company rotation. Like literally in sort of a two-year period, he'd done three trips or something sort of thing. He wasn't even 21 yet. He's like and he'd he'd in Todd Langley's team on that Charlie Company rotation, he'd just gotten back from, and that had gotten like super kinetic because he's he was known as Todd in contact, tick, you know, troops in contact for short, right? So he was always just getting in amongst it. So like he knew what it was like. Um and and yeah, and I was like, I've no idea. You know, I've just I've just been told this is what happens, and I've been you know, you've been at the range where you're down at one end with the targets and you're throwing the targets up and down and you hear it all and that kind of stuff. And so it was just real, you know, it was sort of funny. Like that that that was it, and that was probably the you know, the like the closest I got, I guess, to ever like fire my weapon. And so I you know, again, point of my shit story was I didn't actually fire a shot and anger the entire trip, but I just never was in a position that like either there was that trip to Gumbad the guys talked about where they were there, you know, and running out of everything. Just didn't go on that one. I was back doing some of the training with you know, just being in the but in that team. Um there was the the raid at the back calais at the end of the trip. Again, just didn't go on that. I wasn't the pair of dudes that they that that went, so it was Corey and he's already talked about it, and and the two IC from our team, um, where he was wounded in action. And you know, there was probably a couple other times in between them, but it just you know, it like we had some RPG shot, you know, at the call sign or whatever on another trip where we were in a overwatch position with a with a heavy machine gun. So, you know, once you've seen that fire off and it fired you know kilometers away almost into the where the vehicles were, you know, our weapon system seen that because he was, you know, he's sitting behind it, we're sitting behind it, you know, constantly, someone was sitting behind it and just rotating through while we're living out there for the day or two and just started shooting you know at where it where it came from. Um again, they weren't expecting that, you know. Um but yeah, there was just yeah, there were a few things, but I didn't didn't get amongst it. You know, it wasn't it wasn't the role within the team that I was in. So like I said, we we cleared like countless compounds. I'd literally would be in the thousands. Uh it just never went into a place where there was a bad guy waiting in there in the corner, you know, for us, basically. Yeah. Um there were definitely little people in there, but there just wasn't a bad guy with a weapon. Most of the time they jumped the jump the wall and pissed off because you know no one wants to get shot in the face. So, you know, and they they knew who they were dealing with most of the time, it would seem, you know, when we when we did um come into the into the villages. Um, because it definitely was some times we came across some um target compounds, can definitely remember one. We were expecting bad guys to be there. There weren't, but they literally had just left their beds. Just left their beds. There was like literally six beds. You can see where they're movies. Literally. The food's still warm. Yeah, yeah, man. Absolutely. Like the kettle's still building. They'd forced their way into that house, and then either had someone on picket or sentry or had told the, you know. Saw you come and then fucked off. Yeah, or told whoever was that owned the house, like, you better tell us if you hear them come. And basically they just jumped the fence, and those people like, well, look, we had to let them in because they were threatened to kill us, and yeah, yeah, they jumped the fence and they're probably like five minutes away or whatever, you know, um squirting, squirting away. Um so there were instances like that, but again, like I said, there was also that um intention to try and um uh have the have the the partner force take over more responsibility, right? So you like I say we would go out, which was you know uh good and bad in a way so like I say, I was doing proper SF kind of stuff, like literally as a two-man team, you know, taking 10, 12, you know, two dozen, maybe thirty dudes out, and yeah, there's the rest of the the commander call site, you know, platoon around us on features and stuff, and sometimes in sort of more direct support, but ultimately, like as a as a little as a newly minted commando private into the unit, I'm in there, you know, literally, you know, two seconds, and I'm I'm you know, like leading these guys and you know, um clearing clearing villages and stuff like that. And so it was very cool. Um and like I said, we spend time down the Candac with them, which is like their police station, but really it was just a compound that they all lived in and worked out of. Um so that was cool. You built rapport with them and that kind of stuff, and um had a little incident down there with the uh with an uh uh a suicide bomber. Um I don't know if we've got time for that story. Yeah, yeah, real quick one anyway. So this is like you know, another shit story, but basically while while I'm here and I got everyone's attention, yeah, they haven't got a choice. I mean, you can just skip this part of the podcast and stop listening. I mean it's Matt's fault that he's invited me here. Um sorry, listeners. Uh so I take what little one little step back with it. So the previous rotation, I think it was or it was definitely really recent, they had some footage, the the partner force, of a suicide bomber that they knew all about and and basically lured into the into the candidate. They had this like um what you call an airlock, which you'd be familiar with at the on the on the uh in the compound, right? So a boom gate comes into an area, it's all clear and everything, and you've got like, you know, it's a search area, and then you can a boom gate and you can move on to the next thing. There's a chicane and everything, slows you down. Anyway, they know this guy's coming, they've got obviously great in because they let this dude in and they basically lay out an ambush, he walks into this airlock, there's no one in there except for a PK and waiting for him, and blast this guy, he's dead instantly, he's lying on the ground. You can see where the the ammunition has started to like ignite the the vest. I don't know if it was necessarily the the explosive on it, but it was like starting to smolder and smoke and everything, right? It didn't explode, it was just like you know, it was burning, right? Um so you know, good night to him, he was off to paradise, right? Anyway, it must have been really early in the trip because there was still the alpha company guys there that we were taken over from, right? Because they had their supervisor and our supervisor for this little mentor team, right? Or mentor platoon, whatever, because it was you know two teams there running and running this like company of partner force. Got told by the imp dude who'd been on selection with us and withdrawn himself and his next one I do. He's a good dude, right? He goes, um, so there's been a report of this guy from Syria who uh he's gonna be he's planning to you know um suicide uh you know um IED himself, you know, on a target here in TCAT you know, he's gonna be wearing white, you know, he's gonna have his head shaved and he's coming all the way. And I'm pretty sure it was Syria, it could have been Libya. Anyway, it was whatever it was, it was a fair way. I'm thinking to myself, this is this is a fair effort for old mate. But yeah, you know, everyone's got their got their dreams and aspirations. So right, sure. But I was like, it doesn't it seems a bit too like it's kind of like too specific information, but not specific enough. Like I was like, if you know that much, how come you don't know what he ate for breakfast? Or like is he here already in TK? And do you know what his target is? Because that could you know inform us a lot more about it. So I was kind of like, I was a bit dismissive of it, right? Anyway, we're down at the Candac and we'd we take one guy from each team. We're down there, um, and we know we just hang out literally like in shorts, thongs, and and a and a singlet. I'd be like smoking a cigar and drinking a rip it on the roof, watching you know, the um RTF boys drive past completely covered in head and toad in armour and stuff. They're probably looking like, what is this sort of white fella doing? Is he like is it like is he a foreign fighter or what like is this Lebanese? What is it? I don't know. You know, anyway, because I I like we haven't really talked too much about it, but uh you're not scared to get racist, but you know, like I I I could basically uh I look sort of um multinational. So uh for the listeners at some point, so it kind of looks like Nick Curios. Yeah, I haven't heard that one before. Uh a big one when I was growing up, and still to some degree is um Benji Marshall. I get that a lot. When he first came on the scene, I got that all the time with pump.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:04

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:05

And then in more recent years I've gotten it, it's kind of tape it off a little bit, thankfully, because you know, like it's kind of a bit awkward to say something, no, I'm not, and they're like, uh anyway. So I like you know, when we were going to Timor, guys are like, You'd be happy you're going home. I'm like, What are you? I'm not going on leave. What are you talking about? They're like, You're going back to Dilly, mate. I was like, I'm not T Maries. And I'm like, oh, I thought you were. And I was like, someone obviously had said, uh, Chris and Nick East Timorese or whatever. And uh and then you know, like we were doing the MRE and someone said to me, I'd tell everybody you're from Mirambad Valley, right? Because that was that was where TK was, right? It was just not you know, just close by. So like when I had to get up in front of everybody, we're having a few beers at the MRE in a Kaltana there, you know, I just come to Delta Cup, nobody knows me. They're like, Oh, so tell us about yourself, Chris. And I was like, Oh yeah, so I was born in the Mirabad Valley, and I like I just did it as a joke, right? Because everyone some of the guys told me to do it. So people actually believed me. And so like later on, I had to tell people, no, no, I'm not actually um Afghan y'all I'm Australian, mate. Uh but I was never born, you know. Anyway, so we had a yeah, it's had a few last, and like, you know, in Iraq, same sort of thing. You know, I was living in New York City for a little bit, which we'll probably get to at some point if we ever do. And uh, you know, people thought I was Spanish. I'd get and talk to in Spanish all the time and be like, uh, I have no idea what you're saying, mate. Yeah, yeah, high blank glass, you know, or whatever. And uh anyway, so um where were we? Oh yeah, so like we get this, we get yeah, sorry. Um we're down with Candak, hanging out with the boys. Um I also did get a nickname over there, which was pr it was pretty common um for for dudes to get. It was called uh the nickname is Shyster, the Shyster, uh which apparently roughly translated into the beautiful one. So because of my complexion and that, um, you know, and we we all we've all heard plenty of stories about what uh what they're like over there. Yeah, you know the boys. Yeah, basically. So they you know they they they were you know I turned heads. So let's let's uh say keep it up, right? Just inflate my ego a little bit more, you know. Like uh yeah, so uh you know, I I was I was a bit of I was I'll I was an Afghan tent. You're a look. I was an Afghanistan 10, right? Maybe 11. And uh for the dudes too. This is not for the fans. For the dudes, mate, there's no there's no chicks there. Any of the chicks that are there are dudes dressed up. Honestly, you'd watch, you know, sometimes you'd walk in and they'd be watching TV and um and they'd like joke about us in broken English and through the interpreter, and they'd be like, Oh, what do you think about Old Mate? You know, and be like, oh, she's alright. Like, oh, it's a dude with makeup and everything on the like oh I can't tell. Anyway, I digress, right? So we get the in about this this dude, and I'll kind of do the dismissive about it. Anyway, I must have been the first ones to go down to this kin, I can do this this little you know, rapport-building activity down there. Anyway, we'd like to eat with them and and which was great, you know, eat fresh mood food, and uh we'd have our own we had these two little connexes which were ours, one had, you know, r uh beds in it and the other one had all the comms and tack gear in it. Had our own little courtyard and everything, and we'd sit there at night time and chat to them through the interpreter, and we'd also play for volleyball with them. Anyway, the only thing we really had to do down there besides you know not get killed, I guess, was um or or get um um sexually assaulted was uh was call in at like four o'clock in the afternoon on the radio, right? It's basically just a scheduled communication, a schedule, scheduled communication, just to let mum and dad know that we were safe and we weren't staying over at the friend's place, right? Now we're all good and talk to you tomorrow. Anyway, so I'm playing football and you know it's about four o'clock and it's like that's prime time volleyball, you know, action there. And I'm like, man, I've got to give me a sec, guys. Yeah, I've got to go and do this thing. So anyway, I go running across to the parade ground and there was this step up, about a half a metre step up onto this polished concrete floor, which is sort of covered overhead, and at the end of that was the was the courtyard where we had our connexes, and old mates there hosing it down, and I come running along, jump up with one foot onto the polished concrete, slip arse over tit, people's elbow to the ground, and uh and I was like, Oh man, I think I've broken that one. And um, and like I'll just go and sort out this scared on the radio, and then I can sort out this you know uh blood gushing from my elbow anyway. So we go in there and call up and tell them everything's fine, and uh Oppo's realised what time it is as well. He's come in and he come into the thing as well, and he sees that I've already done the call for the day, and uh he's like, Man, can you give us a hand? Because it's kind of hard. Like I realise I haven't broken it, but I've definitely broken the skin, there's blood and everything, and I'll just like you know put a bandage over it and we'll worry about it when I get back to back to the camp you know in a couple days or whatever. And um, as he's like helping me try to put this patch on, there's just this boom, just giant explosion, and it feels like it's literally outside the conics, like so close, right? Everything shakes. I remember something hitting the Persplex window that they cut into the um into the side of the conics to give us some light during the day. And um and there's this like small caliber gunfire, and then um next thing I'm thinking is like we're under attack, and then the very next thing I think it's like sheer terror, right? Because I've only been in country a week or something like that. It's absolute sheer terror, is that next thing's gonna happen is there's gonna be grenades coming over the over the wall because yeah, that's what I'd do if I was attacking this place, right? Just piffing grenades over the wall and hoping to create like you know, chaos, calamity, mayhem, and casualties, right? Anyway, um, the dying the the shooting dies down pretty quickly, and uh and there's no no other like no other noise and everything except for it's it's activated the candac. There's dudes running around everywhere and all that kind of stuff, and where it happened was literally on the boundary of the of the compound over the front gate where there's the the uh security tower looking down into that area, same area we talked about before where the old mate got got unced uh on that previous attempt. Anyway, the um it's happened just outside the the outside the compound and everything. Realised quickly what what it is, we're starting to hear from the dudes up on the roof and everything. Um, you know, like there's a bombs going off obviously from the sound, right? And that um it doesn't seem to be anything going on out there anyway. So we work out we can't I I literally have to call back to the people I've just talked to and said everything's fine, say actually contact wait out like two not even two minutes later, it wouldn't have even been that long. And uh we work out, right, cool, we'll get our tack gear on and we'll go up on the roof and we'll start reporting in. Then we realise we can't communicate back. So what we have to do is one of us will go up on the roof, one of us will stay down, we'll talk between our personal radios, and then that person will then on the main radio back to the back to camp. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there's the ki the the radio is in both the CP and then in our office where our supervisor, Bruce, um he's a SASCat, um, like old school SASCat from the 80s, right? Who's in there and he hears over the radio, starts spinning up our boys to go jump at some bushmasters and come down and rescue us, right? Because they just think like we're being attacked, right? And that that we're like two white fellas down there surrounded by a bunch of useless not that they weren't useless, but you know, like that's how sort of some people thought there's like all the partner force were useless. There's plenty of guns down there. Anyway, wasn't that bad. So uh they come zooming down and everything, and we get up on the roof and find out what's going on. And basically, as far as we know, that that actually was correct. Old Matt from Syria had come all this way, identified the uh governor's um up armored SUV coming down the road, and of all places decided to detonate himself outside the police station, which you know may or may not have been a great idea. But what does it matter? He's off to paradise, so you know, I from like from what I understand, because I didn't actually go out and see anything, because I never actually got up on the roof. Basically, he was more senior than me. He's like, I'll get on the roof, you stay here, get on the radio, you're a SIG, you know, bitch, and uh and you can you can you can you know your job's important too, make us some sandwiches away, their kind of thing. You know, he was it wasn't you know, um it was just the way it worked, alright. Anyway, so I was like, cool, I'll you know, do this radio business, and um everything seems fine, and I'm no longer in sheer terror or anything like that. And so, you know, apparently the boys when they came down, they cleared the area, he'd proper unst himself. Um he'd unfortunately vaporised some locals as well, so there were just sort of remnants of that, and there was definitely some casualties and stuff with them. The shooting was his security team and the other vehicle, or other two vehicles, I'm not sure how many there were, jumped out and were just firing their pistols into the air. That's what the low low like low caliber uh fire was, to tell everyone to piss off. Well, they cross-loaded him into one of the good vehicles and they pissed off down the road. And then they came back later without the governor, obviously, and um and sort of like you know, I guess did a bit of a debriefing just to check to see, you know, like what was going on and if it had any in any way, there was a f guys were saying that there was a foot left in the sort of vicinity of where the you know blast was and there was a a stray cat like sort of nibbling at that. There was some human flesh in the barbed wire above the wall, because he would have only you know been less than ten metres away from that, and there was that thing that hit the window turned out to be a piece of bone, which for like the longest time, because of its shape and and everything, I thought it was like his shin bone because he also his his foot had survived. And I was like, I just recently thought to myself, when I was thinking about this story, I was like, it could have been any part of the bone, you idiot. You could you know anyway, but so there was a bit of bone came over the window, over the wall, hit the window, and uh and then basically everyone came down, said are you guys okay? And I was like, Man, yeah, I'm fine. Like, I mean, nothing, you know, like he wasn't after us, and we've kind of worked out what it was. He's gone now and you know threats over, so yeah, cool, let's just go back to playing volleyball. And um, so we stayed down there for you know a couple more days and and yeah, that was it, and that's yeah, the end of my uh shit story about uh being being half blown up by an IED, which is not really what happened, but uh I got a wound out of it. Yeah, the purple heart.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:31

It's a battle wound.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:33

Man, it was like you know, people like you know, look at the med docs or whatever, and it sounds like I got a I got I you know I got blown up by an IED, but it's like no no no, it happened to go off, but I yeah, anyway, so slipped over prior. Yeah, I slipped over beforehand like an idiot, you know, like I just felt so stupid too. Like, you know, anyway, yeah, uh it was it was all good and it was a it was an interesting time. I guess the point of that shit story is um maybe sometimes you can actually believe the int, because you know, typically with Australia it hasn't always been great, or you know, maybe it's lacking, but I mean I guess the idea was too if we don't say something about it and then something actually happens, which it did, we would look bad, right? Exactly. Um 2010 trip was was great. You know, I was probably doing what I was gonna do. It was it was you know SF as it I think it could get, you know. At least, you know, most ticking most of those boxes. Yeah, it's a great crew of dudes I work with in a great platoon, great company. Um you talked before about you want me to tell like I can do it real quickly, the story about dressing up.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:30

Did you was that on that trip or that trip, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um just just quickly, uh back to the the swash sticker thing, just for the the woke the woke people out there. Sorry, it's well used within the army uh when someone's running pretty fast. If you put your hands like this and your legs like that, it makes you look like a so the Taliban weren't throwing s swash stickers everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:52

No, they weren't they weren't they weren't getting piling or anything like that. They weren't uh narcissistic. They were just running for their lives they were not expecting us to reach out and touch them. Now honestly, they would they picked a distance where they were like, we can you know kind of get this, but they're not gonna be able to and they were wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:08

So yeah, so I was told a couple of times from a few boys uh that you like to dress up. And I I know for a fact, you know, y you dress up in uh in baggage, you used to wear your added ass tracksuits, but that's that's just culture.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:21

It is funnily enough about tracksuits, so we uh got uniforms for that PPRC, the partner force, and they made I've got I've got it I've got a couple of them at home still because I get around the entire time on that trip. It's a purple tracksuit with the black, red, and green national stripe down either side. Because you know, it was like they were just throwing them out there and these guys weren't wearing them and they didn't wear they don't wear churches to them. I was like, man, so like some people would like see me walking around um Camp Russell and be just like, is that is that guy allowed in here? Because you know, they thought they honestly thought I was like one of the partner forces kicking around. Mind you, like all the boys made jokes about it, right? Yeah, even to the point where like uh on the following trip, the RSM um he was a SAS cat, like uh you know, fully did that to me as a joke when I like I was coming out from a jog one day and he was coming back in or something like that, and he's just like, Are you allowed in here? And I was like, What do you what do you mean? And he go, and and I was like, ah, yeah, good one. I got you. I like that. Yeah, yeah. He was a good dude, actually. I managed to see him in here in Sydney, and um he's like, Man, you if you want a job, come on over. And I was like, that's that's nice, I appreciate that. I had very little to do with him, but yeah, he but he basically seen me in my prime, you know, dressing up and acting out um face. He didn't really see any like my professional um conduct, so I don't know, you know, maybe anyway. But he was all into that like grey roll sneaky stuff that's going on over there, and it's probably still is, and we're yeah, we're not let sorry, we're not gonna talk about that. But um I don't know anything about it, so I can't comment, but yeah, he certainly I think I have the ability to like blend into certain environments given my um my my ethnicity. Yeah, I guess I guess he's racist. What are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 2:33:52

I'll be New Zealand and might be might be in Turkey or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:56

But I'm basically slotting anywhere, probably, you know, even fitting, I don't know, like Mongolia somewhere or something like that. We could who knows? Well I don't really have Asiatic features, so I guess that wouldn't work. That was a terrible you know, but example. But yeah, it has it's been pretty common. So I go you know, I I ke I'll try to keep this one short. Basically, the platoon commander wanted a a prayer that we could recite before going into on into a job and just like you know, just create this incredible um spree-to-core sense of you know furor, they'll like just get our blood pumping and all kind of stuff. I didn't necessarily think that would would would uh happen. But um, and no offense to him, you know, we actually had mutual mate um that you know, like we sort of keep in contact that way, I guess. Um what each other's doing since and you know, he's he's a good enough dude and all that kind of stuff, but uh I didn't re I don't know whether he you know was uh particularly religious or whether he just sort of thought you know um that that that would be useful anyway. So I get told um I have no idea that this is going on, and that he's basically asked for submissions, right? I just know that people were sort of talking about it, uh, about something, and that like they put some ideas forward. Anyway, they decided on something. He says, Right, cool, we've got what we want. Um we're going on a gig tomorrow, turns to one of the NCOs, who's reading it, and uh old mate just looks at me. I'm sitting in front of him, whatever, he just goes, uh, Chris is doing it. And I was like, Cool, uh first I've heard of it anyway, yeah. So yeah, I'm like, yeah, man, I'll bang it in, whatever it is. And um, so anyway, they're like, right, you have to I'll like a find out later what it is. You gotta read the uh read the prayer before we go, you know, banging in this job. And I was like, okay, cool. Well, no one really knows me in this platoon and you know, all the company, and this is my opportunity to, you know, um like you know, showcase some of my um my uh sense of humor, I guess, my you know, the other side. And uh and so basically I decide that I'm gonna um put together costume where I look, you know, suspiciously like a disciple of Jesus or something like that, or maybe even Jesus himself, and uh I'll you know Before we go out in this gig, I'll um I'll I'll get up there and and do it, you know, in costume. So I you know, find a sheet, you know, cut a hole in it, pull it over my head, create some uh like something as a beard. I can't remember exactly what I used. It might have even just been paper that I like, you know, spray painted brown or something like that. I think I can't remember what it was exactly. Got a Bible from the Padre, so I remember going in there and saying, Hey Padre, can I uh borrow a Bible? And he was like, Yeah, man, because it's probably the first rotation out of 13 that anybody'd ever asked for one. So he's thinking I'm up to, you know, I'm up I'm uh you know, look for some enlightenment, you know, uh uh and that was not necessarily the case. Anyway, I did go like I had to think I had to Google where it was, but I looked for the um the verse that talks about you know descending in the shadow of the valley of death, right? Because I thought that was a cool thing, uh aspect of it, right? Not to diminish anyone's um you know religion or anything like that, but it certainly has been used before in in same sort of simil similar sorts of capacities, right? Anyway, so uh I like I have the Bible up there, one to just sort of get across my costume a little more too about what I'm doing, and then also I've got the piece of paper that I've got to read off in that page, right, along with like some other things that I've added and just made some slight alterations. Um anyway, so it gets time to it. I tell one of the other team members um who's all for it, you know, can you film this? Or maybe I didn't, I don't know, but he definitely was expecting it to come. And so I get up on the big Hesco barriers that form the outside of Camp Russell, um, still within the larger base, so it's perfectly safe. Um the fact that I'm like you know, three or four metres off the ground, and it looks like I'm levitating over the top of the vehicles we're about to get into, and all the guys are just standing around milling around waiting for us to leave. Anyway, I get everyone's attention, everyone's just sort of like, what the hell's that noise? And sort of looks around, and someone points me out there up on top of the the the uh the wall and everything, everyone's sort of turns and look, and some people have just got this quizzical look on their face, people are like smiling and laughing because they can see that I'm looked like, you know, got a beard and a and you know, looking like some kind of pseudo, you know, um religious figure. And so then I, you know, I read out the the uh the prayer and um and then you know, rip all the stuff off, got my gear on underneath, we jump in the cars and we drive off. Um and yeah, that's that's the point of the shit story. Um that's I guess what it was is I was really uncomfortable about the whole idea. Like it wasn't really something that I you know, I don't necessarily believe in it, and there's nothing wrong with anyone who does, and I don't diminish it in any way, but uh I didn't think that it would do have the effect that the boss thought it might. And I thought this is an opportunity to poke a little bit of fun at it, but then also, you know, like still do it, do it right, right? And try to like actually, in all in all honesty, hopefully, by poking a little bit of fun at it, that the guys would actually kind of get that sensation that the boss was aiming for, you know, m in a roundabout way, I guess. Um I then also at some other point on another trip that I wasn't going out on, I dressed, had a even had a headdress like a big, you know, uh bishop or some sort of archdeis kind of thing, and walked around and blessed the vehicles as they were getting ready to leave. And everyone thought it was hilarious until one of the blokes from the previous rotation, one of the snipers, goes to me, and he wasn't nice about it, and he didn't care, at least that's what he said anyway. He's like, mate, the last time we seen this happen was when the actual Padre blessed the vehicles. We went out on that job, and then Jason Marks was was killed. And so I felt like a piece of shit. I was like, alright, we'll let this, you know. I didn't know it, and if I'd had been told beforehand, I would have definitely stopped doing it. So I can't remember whether I continued or whether I like because I was already doing it or whether I'd stopped what I was doing, but I certainly, you know, I uh I tried to, you know, slink away at some point there and then got on with whatever job because we were literally I don't know what the gig was, but we we literally were just like the only people in the building, the couple of us that were left behind for that period of time while we were doing the training for the for the local force. But um they all thought it was great, you know, like they knew Mr. Shyster. I was like, like literally, as far as they're concerned, I walked on water, you know, like you know, they they all you know at the risk of sounding vain here, which I probably already do, they literally like we had a number of conversations where they're like, mate, like if if you're if you want to, then yeah, we will. But if you don't, then I'm just joking. But I'm not if you know what I mean. And and I'll be like, I appreciate that, I appreciate it, guys, but I don't swing that way kind of thing, you know. Like, thank you. Um I'm I'm awfully you know um uh humbled by the whole thing, you know, because other guys would get really upset about being called the beautiful one. And I was like, uh man, like it's not the worst thing I've ever been called, and you know, like basically, you know, like a guide to them, you're like, Yeah, you know, who's complaining, you know? Like, and if I really want some action, I can get it, you know. Uh which is not the case, you know, but uh they they there were a number of times. Even had one conversation where our old mate was like, through the interpreter, we said to him, How much for a night with Chris? And he was like, a thousand dollars. And I was like, Oh, actually, that's not a bad idea, like a thousand US, that's pretty good. I think we're on about half that a day at the time, something like that. Uh maybe a bit more, I can't remember. But uh and he was like, Oh no, that's local money, and I was like, uh yeah, so him that's a lot of money. To me, not so much. Yeah, yeah, but it's a deal. But for him, it's pretty good, right? It's a deal. Uh so you know, and his name was Torjon, and we had I've got a photo of him because he's he's my biggest admirer. He definitely would have let like if I'd let him, he'd slip one in me for sure. Um I hope you still uh Torjon, I hope if you listen to this, man. I hope you're alive out there. I really hope, yeah, mate. It could be absolutely um hang out for sure. Just not like that. But um, man, it they they're good dudes, right? Yeah, you'll have a bit of a laugh at their expense and everything. Um they thought it was pretty cool, the whole they call it a Moolah, that's you know, the the sort of the version of the religious um uh you know leader. And you know, the rest of the company kind of thought it was, I guess, a combination of funny and completely stupid um and maybe insensitive. I don't know. We never really talked about it. Nobody ever certainly nobody would would have been scared to go and approach me about it. So I feel like if anybody did have a problem with it, they would have definitely come and told me about it. Because I was like literally been there two seconds, they would have probably just come punched me in the face and told me to stop it and my nonsense. So no one seemed to get that upset about it, so I guess it was okay. Um the boss never talked to me about it either, but you know, I guess he was okay with it too. I don't know. Um time's passed. Anyway, whatever, you know, like it was just a little bit harmless fun. Um, which is not the first time that I've done that, you know. Like I said, Matt, you know me I like to defence address. I don't mind, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:27

Fucking hell. I remember one time I left baggers and there was a big cock on my fucking whiteboard that said Bronco sucked. I've got the phone on my phone.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:35

Yeah, in my defense, I think someone had already drawn the the phallic symbol. I just added I just scribbled out whatever it was and added uh you know my my two cents.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:44

So you obviously you finish that rotation, you're back uh into Holesworthy and you do you get posted or you do your sniper course and you get posted to sniper platoon, which leads on to your next SOTG deployment, SOTG 17 with uh Delta, but this time as a as a sniper.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:01

Yeah. Yeah, so we could we could probably comfortably say that changed the trajectory of my life. Yeah, definitely. Because it so, real quick background to it, we we get back at the end of 2010. We know that with the rotation system, we'll be going back in 2012, early 2012. So it's just like 12 months in Australia, you know, do some training and get ready to bang it back in. Super excited about it. And um get to work the first day, and I was actually in Mick's team, um, and I remember being standing next to him, and our our T TL came in and said, uh, what courses you guys were interested in doing? And um I don't know, Mick might have said something like I'm not interested in doing anything, just you know, I just got here kind of thing. And I was like, uh, does the unit do anything with surveillance? And he's like, Ah, snipers do that, and and and then that was as far as the conversation went, right? And he disappeared, right? And then literally like six months later, um get told, like, ah, Monday morning, Chris, you're uh you're on the sniper course. And I was like, uh yeah, cool. I don't remember agreeing to that, but sure, yeah, why not? Just go bang it in. So, you know, go and do the course, and honestly, it is the best course I've ever done. Like, we were treated it was a small panel of six dudes. Um he was also the student of merit, and one of the other uh guys on there was uh Todd Chigi, and he uh he tragically took his own life. Um I forget what year it was now, must have been 2015, 14, 15, it could have been a little earlier. So that was real sad, but he was a such a great dude. Anyway, so there was six of us on the panel. Uh most of the instructors were Delta Company guys who were we were gonna be onto their team and banging it in with them, and there was, you know, there's a couple of AF company guys that we known from in a Rio that were instructors, so it was you know, it was it was a real adult learning environment, period, but then it was also this familiarity with people, and the fact that we'd also done a trip, you know, the people knew we were serious, and you know, like we didn't, you know, we everyone knew what everyone was about, so it was great. Um and most of those instructors had just done the previous trip with Delta Company in Sniper Platoon as you know, as um members of the teams, and so that was also pretty helpful for them to give us some like you know proper um uh like uh what's the word relevant you know training and information and and and preparation for that kind of thing. Um they had a few snipers leave, so there were a few spots, also had this sort of uh mentality, uh like sort of got this um what's the word looking for? Like a uh so this became like um within Delta Company, everyone thought that people who got sent to snipers never got out of snipers, and so no one ever wanted to do the course because they get stuck there, but it actually was just a bunch of dudes who didn't want to leave, they liked doing the job, and so like there's a combination of that. So I ended up spending like the rest of my entire time at Two Commando in snipers because of that because no one wanted to do the course. But you know, like my experience was it was it was great, and I, you know, I never really had any aspiration to do it, it just kind of came along. I just went with the fly and I was like, Yeah, cool, whatever. And um, so that was like 10 or 12 weeks, I think, from beginning to end. It was it was it was a fair while because I remember coming back after the courses over going to the gym the first day, doing some sort of workout and getting massive DOMs and just thinking, man, I haven't done this in like three months, that's why, you know, you idiot. You know, what were you thinking? Um but it was it was it was great, you know. The first week was uh learning how to for learning photography, and we had a bloke from the US Embassy who'd done a whole lot of sneaky stuff and was just giving us all these hot tips about you know how to take photos looking looking legit and all that kind of stuff. You know, and then you know, all the other the the the the shooting and then the green roll stuff and then the um and then the uh like com can domestic counterterrorism aspect of it as well because that's what separates it from, at least at that time, it might be different now, but separates it from the the battalion course. Um it was great, you know, and all six of us passed. And that has some great memories from that. And so the the the four guys from Delta Company that were on the panel, we all went to Snipers. Three of us went to the same team, although it was JTAC with four squadron, he um he went to the other team as their as their JTAC. Um and and man, it was it was like honestly that trip out of I mean not to say that the rest of the time wasn't, but that definitely was like the most professionally and personally fulfilling, you know, time in in the military. If if again, sorry mum, but you know, if if we were still trapped in you know that time of 2012, I could just perpetually live there like Groundhog Day. It was just it was just great. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 2:45:48

So on that trip, mate, you know, we've all seen American Sniper in all those movies.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:52

That's not me. I'm not I'm not a hair on uh Chris Carl's.

SPEAKER_03 2:45:55

Yeah, Australian sniper. Now mate, run us through uh you know a couple of jobs on this trip. You know, I'm sure you've uh you've got to pull that trigger a couple of times.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:04

Yeah, yeah. So I I kept my I get in a bit of trouble this, so I thought that Statue Limitations is surpassed. So I kept my logbook from then, right? So I've got which I haven't read through it in a while and I you know and I'm I forgot to do it before coming here, but I guess it doesn't really matter anyway. But you know, like um it's got the details in there at the time, you know, like it would have been like super secret, but like these are just numbers now, you know, in a in a on a page in a book. Um so I can't remember the name of the place, but I remember the first gig we did um in in filled by Hilo, we're in a in a Huey's a small birds, it's just our team. Old mate flies around like seven or eight times around a landing spot, and like literally goes, Man, I've got to land on the ground, I've got to land at the bottom of this hill and you're gonna have to walk up because I just can't land on top. And I'm like, Yeah, fair one, mate. You tried, we're just going around in circles for ages. So we get down there, we get into this spot, and it looks like it's definitely been used before by the Mujadeen or someone else like that, because there's definitely prepared positions up there. So we go and occupy them. And uh sunrise comes, you know, you see the usual exodus of women and children, and then one of the teams, and I'm pretty sure it might have been Corey's team, I remember hearing his voice over the radio, but could have been for something else, saying that they you know they've had this guy engage them and he's now he's squirting, he's running. And uh and he's heading in in a particular direction, and we're like, oh, that's and looking at the map and the you know the compound numbers, he's heading towards us. But we're like honestly, we must have been, I think it was like oh, I want to say it was like 1500 metres away at least, I reckon. Because I th I remember I was using the 338, uh the caliber, it's a bla the blaze of the 338, it's the caliber. Um so like it's sort of its max effective range is about 600 metres, and I remember it like being basically on that limit. Anyway, we've had some um software that we use that we can input all this data that we've been collecting whilst we're at the range that can then spit out predicted data that you put into your scope, which then allows you to shoot you know without like getting boring about it. It is quite interesting, but essentially, you know, um instead of trying to guess how that you know all that information, all that data, you can get to a ballpark figure, right? And sometimes, you know, first first shot you're lucky, right? Anyway, so we know old mates coming, and then next thing you know, we're sort of ready for him. We see him jump over this wall, and we can tell it's the same blow, he's a weapon, all that kind of stuff. He's dressed in black, he's clearly, you know, running from you know, given all the other information we've got. And uh and so like you know, sexual mind's like, this is your time, guys. And so like all four of us that you know get get down behind something, there's a couple of fifty cows there as well. And uh I just remember like getting down behind us going, man, this is it, like this is you know, this is what I'm this is what I've been training for, kind of thing. But like being like uh not uh like a little nervous, but I guess just like to want to get it right, because you know, people are watching sort of thing. Anyway, we engage and we completely miss him. So I guess it's you know, it's just a story, right? But but I remember thinking about later on, and just like I was going through the process in my mind, and I was like, I've been shooting at paper target such a long time that this just felt like another one of those occasions. It's just that the shot itself, you know, the the the the uh result at the other end was more important, and that's where a lot of nervousness came from. You know, I didn't think about and reflecting on it much later that it actually was a person at the other end, albeit a bad guy. Um so that was the first trip, it wasn't the first job that we did um over there, but it was one of the first. Um that was the first time I actually, you know, it was literally my first you know shot on anger, if that's what you want to call it, um, on ops. So that's how I that's why I remember it. I remember keeping the brass for that, and then they turned it into some cufflinks for us. And so I've stuck it there, like my prized possessions. I've got some um the the R send of the the the bottom of the bottom of the round as um uh yeah, the primer cap and all that uh as um as cufflings. Um the so that our fur uh take a step back the fur I guess it's kind of funny, you know. You probably if you want to, I can give you the video and you can post it on social media. But the first trip we did, right? So the very first one, that it was still it was winter time there. We're flying, we're inserting, and there's literally like fog inside this chinook, you know, the double-bladed helicopter, for those of you unfamiliar with the with the references, um, literally coming in through the windows and the doors and everything, and it's like, man, we are like, you know, and the the the mountains are just on either side of us, it's like real close and it's sort of a bit claustrophobic. Anyway, get told we're spinning around because the weather's shit and we're coming back. So we go back, a couple of days wait, weather clears, we go back into the same place called Mosh Drach. We've been there a few times on multiple rotations, and and and you know, um us again, I think we went back in there in a different time. And it it had been snowing. We get in, we land in the middle of the night, it's it is cold. Um, this is definitely where we get into like another another one of the top three times I've ever been cold in my life. We've got to go up above the the snow line, above the i like so there's literally ice around us and that kind of stuff, and up onto this feature. Daylight comes, we've found a spot, we're in the shade of this ginormous um feature, and we're all just shivering and you know, basically you're going down with exposure. And we're that far away from the from the town that um like we were just gonna be riding observation overwatch. We couldn't actually affect any fires on it, it was just too far away. Um, and so team command makes a decision we're gonna go up, we're gonna break. It looks like we've seen a dude who's looking in our direction, and we become super, super like um conscious of it and think, oh, he's he's compromises, so he knows we're here. So instead of just dying of uh of um you know uh frostbite and hypothermia, we'll get out of here and we'll we'll get on the and we can you know up onto the into the sun and we can also still we can see better a better angle from up there because it's much higher. So he probably was just a dude sitting scratching himself in the middle of nowhere, just happening to be looking in our direction. He was still like 700 metres away. He had no idea we were there. Anyway, so we get up on top of this feature. We sort of like dislocated like two groups of three sort of thing, just a few meters, you know, a couple of ten, ten, twenty metres apart or whatever. Anyway, we're up there, and uh I'm like, right, cool, I'm gonna be here all day. It's just blowing a gale, like just quite it's quite cold still, and it's just like constant wind blowing around your face, so just that sound and everything. And we all end up having like scabs on our noses from wind cheeks and from all the wind burning and everything like that. Anyway, we're up there on this feature, and I'm thinking to myself, I've got to like keep myself walking up, I'm gonna be here all day. So, you know, there's nothing going on in the village yet. It's just the sun's just come up. Um I'm sitting on a spur line, I watch it, and it it it you know, it uh it goes all the way down for several hundred metres and it it crosses um it sort of becomes a creek down towards the to the end of it. Yeah, it crosses it, crosses a track, right? And I'm like, that's a perfect spot for someone to play something, and I'm just sort of looking around, I'm looking through my scope and and uh and it hasn't got particularly high magnification on it, but I could like see something moving down there and I'm like, hmm, wait, hold on, a little bit more suspicious. And then I look and I focus and I'm like really straight in my eyes, and then I see it's like, oh, it's a dude down there. Oh, it looks like he's dancing. What the hell is he doing? Wait, hold on. No, that's that's a donkey. Oh, no. And I'm like, oi, oi, and I I vector the guys in because I they've got a 40 power scope, right, on a tripod and everything. So this would be about a C old mate, like high definition, right? And uh and I'm like, mate, uh, can you like and I vector him in on it and they're like, ah, sure it is, mate. You you poofed uh whatever. You know, like you just seeing, and I'm like, no, no, this guy, he's going at it. Anyway, so they they vector in on they seem like, oh shit, it is too, right? And they've got it much better, you know, with the magnification on the scope and everything. So then it was that cold there. We had because the first gig were all super keen. We had all fresh batteries and everything, right? Everything was below the operating temperature, nothing turned on our night vision was having dramas, night weapon sites, all that sort of stuff, right? The only thing that still had some battery power in it were the two iPhones these boys bought out, who happened to be in that little pit there with the with the um with the scope. And so I've got they've got a video of them trying to get relief with an iPhone against the eye of the scope. And you can see old mate going to town on this donkey. You can see he's standing on two two rocks, right? Um anyway, so like he finishes what he's doing and everything, and we tell everyone in the call sign, and they're like, it's it it nothing's, you know, until you video video proof for basically nothing's happened until it's video proof, and we're like, don't worry, we've got it. Anyway, so we've got it. We go back to we go back to our actual day job and we're watching for people, bad guys, and kind of stuff. We told them, you know, your Most Track Bazaar is gonna be just hectic, there's just dudes with guns everywhere, and it's just gonna be a massacre and all this kind of stuff. And it was less so, right? Anyway, I just noticed like several hundred meters down the road, off to our right, he's no longer in front of us. Old mate's just lying on the ground. I'm like, is that guy dead? Did someone shoot him? And he's well out of the village. Like, there's no he's way, way, way. So it's not one of us. And I'm like, did the guys I'm like, oh you see old mate over there, like reference this. Is he dead? And they like zoom in like that the the donkey was just hanging around, just close by, just nibbling at the grass or whatever, whatever, you know, rocks or whatever was there. And uh like, oh no, I think he's just having a sleep. So old mate just blown his load and then you know, got a little tired after walking a little bit and just had a had a little yeah, had a sleep, then got up shortly afterwards and disappeared off, and the donkey just hung around like it's just every day that happens, you know, it's just standard rims. Anyway, so that yeah, that was a highlight of that that first trip and uh that first gig. And we've like I said, we've got video footage and if you want, you can put on social media. Yeah, might have might upset the uh algorithm and uh yeah and Instagram. Yeah, so there you go. I mean that thanks for thanks for the uh that's what your skills were your investment in your money invested in where it went. Um yeah, so that that that's kind of funny. I like uh you know, I've I have actually shown that a couple of times and things I'm like I warn everybody like this and beastie aliens, everyone just like looks at me like, ha, you're joking, Chris. I'm like, no, no, if you're gonna be upset about this, you better leave the room. Um, you know, and just like a funny little um I guess you arousal, pun intended. Uh, you know, before a lesson. Um anyway, you know, get into the information you really want to hear, I guess. Um Dead Taliban? Yeah, so there was a few of them, man, like not so much myself, but definitely like we were as you've already documented with some of the other guys like uh Dave Parker and Declan and all that kind of stuff, you know, and and Mars and Corey and that we were b and Mick were banging it in and Troy banging it in with um with the DEA. Um and uh like everywhere we went with them was basically kinetic. You know, that's already been talked about. Like their their intelligence assets were spot on. There was never this oh like maybe the dude came from Syria or whatever. Like it was definitely like we're going to target compound, this is where they're doing you know, manufacturing the drugs, and we're gonna go bang it in, shoot the chemist in the face, and you know, like the rest of them, anyone else carrying a gun, and then we're gonna destroy the stuff and we'll go and you know refit for the next day. Um so basically everywhere we went, there was you know, there was an element of it. Now, you know, there's a misconception that as a sniper you put yourself up in a higher position, you know, like I run off by myself into the distance with my weapon slung over my back or whatever, and um, which did a couple of gigs where I just carried the rifle because we literally would land on the plane, it's like overwatch, there's no need to have a rifle, I just carry my pistol with me. The rest of the team, you know, had varying weapon systems, and it was like wasn't expected to be particularly like kinetic or anything like that. So, you know, probably a little foolish, but that was the direction from the team commander anyway. So there were a couple of times where I was just carrying my rifle like a tough guy. Anyway, so you know, I don't just run off into the distance, find a find a tower somewhere in a bell tower and just start, you know, shooting bad guys. But there was one time where we happened to be on this on uh the three of us were separate two teams separated in two two three-man groups, and we're on top of the roof. The other guy that I did the um did the course with, and he was a great shot, still is a great shot. If we've got time for it, I've got a really quick story about the uh thousand meter standing 50 cow shot that you took. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, well, I'll get back to that, right? Remind me. Um because I love telling everybody about this, it's the most incredible thing I've ever seen. Anyway, we're on the roof of this um compound, we've been there all day. Uh the reason why I remember this particular one is because uh I'd put a rock in the boss's pack. So a little town called Wone. Um that means anything to anybody, but basically we would we'd fly down from TK pre-stage in Bastion, which is a big UK camp where the air assets would be, and they'd fly us into Kajaki to Hellman and all that, and we just get in amongst them. Um two of the guys were had the runs, were like, you know, had gastroendritis and so we're gonna get sent back, and they were like, you know, they were big buffers, right? So for them to be sick and everything, it was just, you know, it was definitely they were up uh up near, you know, feeling up under the weather. Anyway, the boss had been complaining all week because he was gonna have to go to an overwhelm position, right? And I've been like, you know, balls deep into this rotation by now, um, with um you know, walking up every time I go on a job, I'm walking up like feature, or I'm walking down off one or whatever, you know. So it's like mate, there's nothing, you gotta walk up this little hill, like stop winging. Anyway, he's leading us onto the aircraft at the camp, getting ready to fly into the onto this gig. And he goes, mate, wait here, wash my pack, and I've got to go and sort out these guys that are going. Home, right? Because they're going to stay on the plane, plan helicopter will come back and then send them back up through the line back to the camp. And I turn around, I'm like, have this epiphany at that exact moment. I'm just like, ha, perfect. I turn around to the guy behind, like, oi, oi, come here, hold this open. And he just looks at me like I'm some sort of idiot, right? And uh, which I am. And uh, so I run over just close by, we're all on this gravel kind of stuff, and I pick up this rock, not not big, but not small either, and I just like drop it on top of the boss's pack, zip it back up and everything. Like, thanks, old mate, you didn't even fucking do anything, right? And um, and he's just sort of standing there like with his head his nods on, just like looking at me. It turns out he was the he's the bear, the uh electronic warfare blow for our platoon, right? Um shout out to Benny. And um anyway, so we get on the boat, yeah, on the plane, we fly, we land in everything, you know, we're banging in this role, we're sitting on this roof of this compound, and he's here as Ray's like, the boss comes over and he's like, uh Does anyone know how this rock got in my pack? And I just remember laughing, I was on the roof by myself, and all mate's just, you know, a few meters away tomorrow. So I don't remember just giggling to myself and I didn't say nothing, right? And uh like, that's enough. He's just spread it over the entire net, the entire company's heard it, so everybody knows. I don't need to like own up to it. And uh not that I was scared, I just thought it was just you know, it's not my sort of sense of humour, right? Anyway, we're on the roof, and the team, one of the assault teams, has got to get from basically where we are in this compound. They're in it, they've been in the compound sort of hanging out with us during the day, but they were somewhere else, and they had to cross this open ground to another target compound because air assets had uh surveillance assets had had vectored there. There was these two guys carrying weapons, clearly trying to position themselves and you know for some sort of ambush or something like that. Anyway, we end up seeing them once it comes over the radio because they sort of expose themselves and they can't see how because we're on a roofs like uh I want to say it was at least a thousand metres away, but it could have been more, could have been a bit less. And um, probably a bit less because the other guy shooting had a um HK417, which is 762, so a little bit smaller caliber around the one I'm gonna be shooting. Anyway, the team says, like, we need you to provide overwatch and protection and everything because we've got to cover all this open ground and everything, and it was some distance, right? And I'm like, look, man, like, yeah, AC will do that, but you know, like it got to be in the right angle to like someone's gotta present themselves for me to be able to engage them. Like, I can't just shoot around corners and stuff like that, right? It just doesn't happen. Yeah, that's in the movies, like you know, it lies in like people being a sniper being anywhere and being able to shoot at anything, right? So anyway, I'm like, yeah, cool, no worries. We're you know, we're anyway. We end up seeing these two guys, and so you know, I um we uh you know give a target indication, so we're you know, we each fire at the other guy, and they're either side of this compound, so they're sort of dislocated themselves about guys. Anyway, I I uh engaged the the t the target and he he was walking on the other side of a wall that was about chest height, and I'm not 100% sure that our eye is actually the one that hit him. He did turn up dead later, but because all I seen was this strike of what it looked like at the wall in front of him, but he dropped immediately, like he knew exactly what was about to happen or what had happened, right? So he dropped immediately, it was just instantaneous. And I was like, and he didn't reappear, he didn't he didn't pop up anywhere else. And I was like, Alright, cool, well, all right, next guy, and he was over hide and sort of trying to hide behind a tree because I don't think he realized back then we were and probably still the guy's still are, we're running um suppressors. So basically, we'd done this sort of testing at the range. You could only a couple hundred meters away, and you would all you hear was like a crack kind of sound. It's just the the the weapon itself making noises internally, right? And so far enough away you wouldn't hear nothing. So I don't know if that guy realized where he's being fired from from the other bloke, right? So the other guys with you know up there shooting, he's engaged this guy, he's gotten some hits. I vector in, you know, give it give it a shot. And anyway, they no longer present, you know, expose expose themselves and present, right? So the team makes their is making their way over there, and they're like, Yep, thanks guys, we've got cool. We tell them what you know in vicinity where we've seen them. These guys go, you know, team go banging in and uh they're a full back that you know blokes are uh um brown bread. And I think they might have even like piffed a grenade in there because they knew the guys were in there, right? And it's hard to tell. One of them definitely dragged the other one who was bleeding out and was in all kinds of mischief. Um, and he clearly had had deceased before that, and then the other guy as a result of whether his wounds or the grenade or I don't know, whatever. But anyway, so you know that that's probably the only real time. I certainly you know had other engagements, but that was probably the only to real time where we're like directly affected fire onto a target that you know was in direct support of a of a friendly call sign, just like you, you know, you you you do see in movies and read about you know, um just because of the way we were facing and where old mates presented themselves and they had no idea that's where we you know where we were. Um so that you know there was there was that occasion. And you know, there were others where uh there's that much activity, you know, that literally it was just like, right, if you if you positively identify uh a target, engage, all right. And then just you know call it, call in the the so that the fire and that so that you know we know like whether you you know we can vector another asset there or whatever, um, you know, if you didn't get old mate or you know, so that we know who you know who's doing the shooting. Because there's a few times where like remember being on a roof somewhere and like all these little pops go off between us and the next compound. It was probably a couple hundred metres away. And I was like, man, they're they're 40 men, what the hell's going on? And it's like that can't be dudes, like we were sort of at the limit of exploitation of how far the teams were going to go through this this village, and then everything was just gonna force the bad guys into the other half where the other team would, yeah, other platoon would come from the outside. And I'm like, man, that can't be like that had to be like five or six of our guys all firing at the same time, and then realized it was a Spectre gunship that was hovering overhead, such an idiot after we realized what it was, and they were firing the 40 automatic 40 mil grenades down into these carez systems, which were like you know, uh like tunnel/slash well, you know, waterway systems that were uh subterranean, which had you know been used by the enemy to like disappear and then reappear in another part of the village and it's in in other places as well. So there was like times like that where if you're not paying attention to what's on the radio, you know, you might not realise that um you know, like there's other things going on, and also you just want to make sure that you know nobody's accidentally shooting at you know a friend that calls on or anything like that. So you know there was it it definitely got very kinetic, like I said, every time with the DEA, man.

SPEAKER_03 3:03:34

Just on, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:34

Yeah, man. Those guys, like we did one gig, they were flying over somewhere else, they identified very quickly that this this compound was um uh production lab, and literally the dudes are are firing the you know the machine guns, as in the shooters fr from the uh from the platform as they're going into land, you know, banging in on this on this opportune target as we were heading because we did, I think that particular job could be wrong, but we basically had three villages in close proximity to each other, and we just sort of like went from one to the other in all in a day. It was like literally like a day job. It's like banging in the morning, done in the afternoon after lunch, thanks for coming, you know, um that kind of uh work rate sometimes. It wasn't that wasn't a typical thing, it happened only a couple times. Um, but yeah, there was you know, there's footage um of of that kind of stuff. I mean, you know, we had some weird in action, there's also you know, same sort of team, you know, the team commander copter burst. Uh Corey's talked about it, it was his team. Um with the uh the team commander copter uh burst from a bloke-lane dogger who knew he was, you know, he had like he had no no other option, so he's just waiting and see if he can take as many people with him. Um so he gets you know uh brassed up and then they they uh Kazovac. Well, yeah, you've sorry, you've talked about it with all the boys that are involved there. So yeah, that was the actually really interesting thing about that whole thing. I'll digress for a moment. It's like you've got Corey talking about it, Mars, Norm, Chris Schultz, who's in the bloody the airframe picking us up. Like, man, I've never been on the roof with Norm. He's the JTAC there calling in stuff and watching the the black hole come in and hearing gunfire and seeing people shooting at it, um, and just thinking, man, those like that's that's brave. You know what I mean? Like what I do, nothing. I've got like a hundred dudes with me, all with guns packing heat, you know, like we explosives and stuff like that. These guys are flying completely vulnerable, you know. Their whole purpose is to go and extract casualties. They're not a war plane, you know, it's not a you know, war platform. So that's you know, it was incredible, man. And like to see that you end up finding all those people that then put all their aspects together. You know, Nick was another one as well talking about.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:28

I want more. Well man, I'd remember being on the roof.

SPEAKER_01 3:05:30

I see him coming in. We've already been told that, you know, um team Dean Commander from that team's you know, um wounded in action, they've already had the previous um wounded in action from that team and you know, the the previous flights come in. Like I said, man, I just remember being on the roof and um uh you know, seeing it come in, fire going in and out. Um the boys are you know giving it cover what they could, I guess. And uh and then it taking off, and then you know, like very limited exposures, but some um bad guys clearly you know manoeuvring around there, I guess trying to like, you know, because our our guys are out in that open air, I guess, trying to maneuver against them. Um and Norm and I, you know, um identifying them and and taking a shot um and then basically vectoring a team onto that guy. I don't think we got him, but it like kind of kept him low to the ground or whatever, and then a team went out and um you know and cha and followed him up. Um but yeah, I just saw it's absolutely incredible, man. Like that that, you know, that is that is bravery. I don't think there's you know, there's certainly other uh uh uh examples of it, but that is definitely the epitome of it. Like if you were looking in a dictionary, there'd be a picture of or there'd be a video clip of that happening. You know, it's just incredible, man. And then knowing they've come back not once, not twice, but three times.

SPEAKER_03 3:06:37

And every time you're talking about you're talking about Kyle Schmidt.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:39

Oh, sorry, Carl Schmidt, sorry, not Chris. Sorry, sorry, Kyle Schmidt. Apologies, Kyle, because I remember listening to his story as well, it's incredible. But like I said, not once, twice, but three times coming back in, knowing full well wouldn't be the only time either. Like, wouldn't the only gig there got shot at, you know what I mean? Like that was that was nuts. Uh talking about uh, I guess helicopters and shooting. So we did this, I've got a cool picture of us uh um posing out the front of it before we did this other job where we were inserting um it was called the reason I remember it, the place was called Bagney, and we got told it was gonna be a complete like barrel shoot. And so I like would uh use alliteration on in my um my logbook and I called it the Bagney barrel shooting bonanza, right? Because we got told basically a village with a main road down the center of it with a little dog leg, and basically every time we've gone in there previous trips, we hadn't been there yet. Um they just would like completely every car, like cars would just squirt down these the roads in in both directions out of the village and just in Xfield and then come back later to fight, right? So they're like you're gonna you're gonna land outside the village, race in, position yourself at one end, the other synoptic will position yourself the other end, you guys will just shoot every car that comes down, right? And I'm thinking, I'll believe it when I see it, right? But we're all just like ged up, like yeah, this is the one. You get told that before every job, it's just gonna be a bonanza, right? Anyway, so we're gonna land outside a couple hundred metres outside the village, and we're not happy with that location. And we get told you can't change it, like it's set in stone. We're like, uh, I don't know about that. So anyway, we get down to the to the uh flight line and we're separated from the rest of the platoon because they're getting on different platforms and we're gonna get into Huey. And we come in, the guy comes out, start going to do his checks and everything. Saying, Oh mate, can you we talk to you know thinking he's the pilot, can we talk to you um about changing the the LZ? And he goes, mate, I'm not I'm the Cowie, you can talk to her when she comes out. And and so she comes out and we chat to her and she's like, I love that idea, because we're not happy about the location either, right? And I was just like, that the moral of that story is like when you're uncertain about something like that, there's all we have an intermediatory organizing those grids. They don't necessarily do any kind of tactical appreciation of the area and don't think to ask or you know make a change or whatever. So they didn't even bother to say, can you change it? They just said no, it's too hard. Like, sorry, yeah, they've clearly just said to us, oh no, mate, you can't do that. It's it's too late. But in fact, haven't probably even asked, right? So anyway, we asked the pilot, she's like, man, yeah, where do you want to land? We're like, cool, this is our target compound. There's a paddo next to it, can we land here facing this exact direction? She's like, Man, you give me the exact degrees distance, I'll put you there, right? We're like, sweet. So we're still hanging out, they're doing the checks and everything, and we find out one of the loadies, he's operating the minigun. He's been there for 18 months. This is the Marine Air Corps wing, too, right? Uh, he's been there for 18 months, hasn't fired a single round through that puppy, but he's definitely cleaned a lot of dirt out of it and dust, right? And he goes, mate, this is my last gig, and then I'm going home. I'm I'm out of here at the end of the week, kind of thing. We're like, pff mate. And he goes, Man, I haven't fired this bloody thing the whole time. And anyway, and then we're you know, talking some more, and we're like, maybe we can help you out with that. Anyway, I mean we get on, we we take off, and there's no skids on it. Um, it's just wheels, so there's nothing to rest your feet on. Anyway, we're flying, and as we fli like fly out of Bastion, it's just a huge airbase, never like just giant, there's just lights everywhere. I can't like you can't sort of fathom, it's like bigger than a domestic or international airport, right? And which is basically what it is. And we're flying up um into Helmand, and as you go up the valley, just the lights and they they're one of the few places we operate anywhere that actually had some running electricity. They would turn all lights out in the village, like just all go out in one hit. And it was kind of like an early warning system, right? As you go up the valley, and anyway, you see that happening. Anyway, we get to the actual target um uh village, and um, you know, that's where we're getting ready to bang it in. So we're gonna be in ahead of everyone else, and then they'll land outside the the um the village and walk in so that the the airframes come up because they're much bigger and everything, much more vulnerable that won't be engaged, right? Because they're just expecting this bonanza. Anyway, so old mate, we're flying uh, you know, at altitude above everybody else, and I just don't even look like something. You're looking through my um night vision, it just looks like something out of literally like Star Wars or something like that. It's just there's traces coming up from the ground, there's traces going down, it's just you know, it looks like laser beams and stuff, this looks like craziness, right? Anyway, it we've got because we've got the doors open, it's loud in there anyway, and we've you know I've got nothing to rest my feet on, so it's just sort of dangling there, and there's nothing to like sort of brace yourself against. Anyway, all of a sudden it just gets much louder and much brighter where we are inside the cabin, and I'm like, what the hell is that? And then I like manage to look over my shoulder and because I've got my pack on and everything, I'm kind of strapped in this bit hard and a lot of space. And I realise old mate is just getting some on the on the minigun, and that's the sound like just right and and shooting down at at targets that are you know, engaging the other airframes and that. Um, and that's what the sound of the noise is, right? I was like, yeah, awesome, cool. All right, so old mate, you know, tick that box to him. Anyway, old mate, you know, comes comes over the radio, like, yeah, approach now, and it's just like literally like some amount of the movie, like this massive big, you know, up like a couple thousand meters or whatever, just massive big dip like a roller coaster, and just level out uh honestly, just above a rooftop is crazy. And at this point, we're flying that fast that like the wind's pushing against my legs and it's pushing me, and I've got nothing to put my feet on that like it's it's not pushing me out of the aircraft, but it's it's forcing me to like want to like lie flat and put my legs across the old mate who's sitting next to me on his lap. And I'm like, man, I like my I'm flexing my abs, something vicious, right? I'm like, man, I can't do this for much longer, otherwise I'll probably pop something, give myself a hernia or whatever. Anyway, we we pull up, flares, she drops us exactly where we want, facing exactly where we want. Myself and the other bloke at the to make first entry, we we run over the not even 20 metres, bang it in, up on the roof, you know, clear the clear the combat and everything. It was it was it wasn't anybody there, jump up on the roof in our spot and hit the roof, ready to you know, shoot every single vehicle that comes driving down with all the bad guys packed in them like you know, clown cars at a circus or whatever. Needless to say, that didn't happen, but there we got very kinetic once the once the uh sun came up because you could see the mass exodus of um women and children, and then there was just stuff all day happening, all day. Um but it was a kind of you know, I remember it because it's a cool picture beforehand, and then there's the the whole like mini-gun bit, and then and then just the approach was like, man, it was like it was full tactical, you know, like a little nauseous, you know, just from the dip and everything, but although it's like this is this is hectic, man. We're just hooning in here, and we're gonna land on top of the old old mate's roof, and then we're just gonna get amongst it. And yeah, like I said, we didn't, but later that day it definitely I ended up pretty sure I ended up expending all my my uh my rifle ammunition. I saw that M4, but more my 338 ammunition, um, because it was just target opportunity everywhere. Um like it engaged a bloke on a bike, and we didn't check up on him, it didn't go in further, but he definitely he went down and there's another dude walking along, he was on a radio with a weapon and everything, he was walking along this wall, and it went just past his nose, and he just cool as anything, like nothing happened, he just spun around on his feet and just kept walking the other way. Didn't didn't miss a beat man, didn't change step, didn't run, didn't duck, nothing. Yeah, didn't even look like uh anything happened. Just did a pirouette. Yeah, man, just did a pirouette and he's like, just play cool, plaid cool, plaque cool. And then I re-engaged and it went down like in the other direction, obviously. It went in front of him again, missed him again by a bee's dick. And it was like, and then he ducked and he disappeared. You know, he came back later in a different spot and everything. And we could hear they could hear him over the icon, so we had the electronic warning guys with us and they were vectoring in, and that's it, you know, he was directing directing action and all that stuff over there because there were there were teams close by that were clearing compounds up there. But um, yeah, that was uh you know, like again, I was like, man, why did the chip like just and that's how like you know, they're prowess two men as as war fighters, yeah. Like cool, cool as, you know what I mean. He just he had he had complete confidence in himself and the fact that even if you know if he if he did get shot, he was going to paradise and you know he'd still he'd done his duty or whatever, I guess. He's you know very comfortable in him in himself. So I guess you know that's the kind of people we were, you know, just one element of the kind of people that we were that we were fighting. He just threw in an about turn. Mate, it was cool. I'll remember it every day. The guy's spotting for me. I've got a picture of, you know, I I was looking for pictures uh for uh Brody when when he passed away for his funeral and everything, and I managed to, I don't know how, but I come across it on the internet and I was like, man, this is this is me and um I won't say his name, but so-and-so's like spot like he would probably not exactly that same time, but it was that gig, just because I remember the position I'm in and where I am, I couldn't lie flat and get enough surface area, so I was sort of sitting up, like kneeling up on a on an incline and shooting over the top of this wall. Um so not the most uh textbook sniper position for those of you out there that you know that want to critique it if you see it, but um it just reminded me of that when I found it, and then it reminded me of that job is I mean man, I'm gonna get up on the Instagram. Yeah, maybe if I can find it. It's uh like honestly, man. I um I don't know if I've got traumatic brain injury or it's just I don't talk about it enough up until this point, you know, like I've yeah, only getting back in the chalks recently do I end up getting telling war stories that it's like stuff starting to come back, or I hear things like the boys talking on podcasts, and I think, oh, that's right, I remember that, or I remember it slightly differently, or you know, that kind of thing. But you know, I I like I said I can't remember if I'm like moulding some story like some locations into into another, but um yeah, that you know that's just like a few like things that I can remember over different kinds of gigs where definitely it was connected.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:12

Yeah, I think it's uh what eleven years ago now.

SPEAKER_01 3:15:15

Yeah, yeah, man. Like when I used to be cool.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:19

So mate, that trip finishes up. Uh that's the last trip for the shyster.

SPEAKER_01 3:15:25

Yeah, yeah. I mentioned about the 50 cal thing. I just thought about that. Okay, we can don't have that if you don't want to edit, yeah. You can edit down. But also, it was real funny because you know only we only it was only 12 months between those trips, bit over. I left, you know, we actually played a joke on him on that first trip that um I'd been uh I don't know if it was wounded in action or killed in action, right? It was played a trick on him, which wasn't fair, and the dudes were wailing and crying and getting really up to it. Yeah, man, and they were like, that's it, let's load up and we're gonna go and shoot these bad guys in the face. Like, they've killed the shyster. It's just that you know, this is a tragedy, you know. And then I jumped out from where I was hiding, and then they were like, oh man, that was not cool, you know, and we're like, ah, we're just having a joke, you know, whatever. Anyway, so yeah, um, I come back and literally like, you know, there's been dudes on there with three plus rotations at least, you know, two, three or more, right? And like, they're just another white fella to these blokes. I turned up for that second trip, man, and it literally was like this no offense to anyone out there, but like the second coming of Jesus. It's like I'd risen on the you know the third or fourth day of the sorry, I shouldn't, you know, uh, you know, the Easter. Like it honestly, it was like the greatest thing that ever, you know, it was like, he's back, the shyster, you know, like hey guys, how you going? And it was the same dudes, and you know, build a rapport with them. I mean, doing a different role this time, but build a you know, huge rapport with them, I thought. And um they were good dudes. Like I said, you know, they were you know, they were doing what they had to do to make ends meet and you know, they're trying to do their best for their country. And there's not so much you can do, you know, when you're like lowly rifleman, you know, in a provincial area.

SPEAKER_03 3:16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:16:43

Um but yeah, so finished up that trip. Like I said, man, I could have could have stayed all stayed all day. We had the another um we don't really need to get into it, but I think Norm alluded to it maybe one time, had a little dress up for Anzac Day. Yeah, yeah. Um do you want me to talk about that? I guess I'll say real quick and then we talk another half an hour. But so basically, sometime maybe six weeks beforehand, some guys so we had some uh Rios that came in, X-3R guys put straight into mortars within the mortar team that was in out for each of the platoons. And one of the guys in the other teams had been in mortars in a previous rotation. He's one of those guys on that dog cup team as well, right? Anyway, so they were having a discussion one night about how old school mortars being as in like Old Mate's earlier rotation is better than the new crew of mortarmen, despite the fact that these guys all like served in three-hour mortar platoon, like not only as digs, but then as NCOs, instructed, all kinds of they they're they are very capable, right? Anyway, the story comes out the next day, because I wasn't around for it, that basically the guy, the new, the newer guy, right, and he's a good mate of ours, Bob, was threatening to punch everybody in the face and knock them out, right? You know, just just walking around just saying, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, bash you or whatever, right? And so, which was as it turns out, because everyone's what what happens is when an when a as you know, when a uh uh a senior member of a unit tells that a junior member did something, it's almost as assumed as gospel, right? Anyway, I'm like, I know Bob kind of, I don't think he would have done that. He'd been on our um selection and then had I don't know if he withdrew himself or got injured, and then he came back the following year, and so he just you know caught up you know the year after or two or whatever. Anyway, get to the bottom of it and find out no, he didn't do that. What he did was he did threaten to punch old mate in the face for saying that his team was shit, right? Um which is only fair, right? And Bob has defended his mates in the past, right, as you well know, right from the contract worker. Um so he was just defending the boys, and so you know, they obviously tried to spin it to make it sound like it was him, right? And it wasn't really anyway, so they then decided they should have a competition, right? Not them two, right? Um, just somewhat decided it, right? And they came to me, they're like, Chris, you're the you're the dude that does this kind of like, you know, promotional kind of stuff and organises activities and events and stuff and gets dressed up or whatever. This seems like it's in your ballpark, you know, and I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll leave it with me. I don't know how we're gonna do this. Anyway, so we talk about it and we end up basically deciding that what they'll do is we'll get them get the tubes out, the mortar, sorry, and they will basically, you know, set them up and lay on as if they were laying on for a target, yeah. Where they've got a line of a number of aspects. This is for your listeners, the line of a number of aspects, right, to have the you know, to be on, as they say.

SPEAKER_03 3:19:08

A one-off.

SPEAKER_01 3:19:08

Yeah, basically, right? But they'll do it a number of times, a number of rounds, like you know, a heavyweight title fight. So then I have all these things in my mind, you know, and like here comes here comes um my uh cut and paste and drawing, you know, um artistic uh uh ability and along with a little bit of uh Photoshop. And so basically we decide um what we're gonna do is they'll do, you know, uh a competition of that and we'll have a couple undercard events and I'll we'll just we'll basically, you know, we'll promote it like a title fight, right? Um meanwhile, old school mortar dude, whose name is also Bob, they're both the same same first name, is not having a bar of it. He's like, I'm not doing this stuff. I like you know, he's basically been called out, didn't quite like it. Shout out to you, Bob. I love you, bro. Right? But he's like, Yeah, I'm not doing it. This right. Meanwhile, other bob's all for it. He's like, Matt, I got nothing to hide, like, I can do this, you know, asleep, right? And so he's all for it. So anyway, we keep putting it off, and then it turns out it's Anzate Day is a perfect opportunity for it, right? Because we know we're gonna have the day off. And I'm like, okay, cool. It seems like a bit too far away at the point, but it's like who cares, right? It'll be entertainment. Meanwhile, as it turns out, like everybody is just hanging for this thing to happen. So we end up being about a month's delay or something like that, right? So everyone's just building the pressure. I get some of the other dudes at his um so old school Bob, get some of his mates who are all for it to like just slowly like indoctrinate him into convincing him right to get on board, right? And basically to the point where I'm pretty sure when I got a person to be the referee who actually knew what he was doing, he just um said to Bob, like, I'll uh I'll um you know, I'll cheat and you'll you'll you'll you'll win, right? Basically, is what I think ended up happening. Anyway, so they they managed to convince him around. I go to the the chick that does the imagery for us and I take a picture of what I want. I've got like the old school boxing image from like 1920 something, and I've got the photos of these guys and the other card and all this stuff, and I'll just I've got a picture, I've actually got it framed on a wall at home, right? And um, and so it's the two of them like in old school like boxing poses facing each other, right, and with their faces on it. So we might have to blow that if you're gonna post it. And um anyway, so we get to the day. Um we have like the weigh in beforehand. So I've got a set of weights from the from the gym, like actual digital weights and everything. I've you know, I've managed to I didn't bring the jacket, I had this, I still have it, it's this coat and tails that I have with a a felt um double diamonds um uh punisher skull on the back that I'd use for other social events that we've done. That's where that sort of that whole like resp reputation came about, right? So I decided that was a bit too much to bring on ops to like in terms of space because I had you know to bring other things a bit more uh a bit more prioritized a little bit more. Operational equipment, operational tactical equipment. Yeah, you know, like who needs that, you know. But uh anyway, so um uh I've got I've got like a pair of uh out of the straxy pants that are black with the red stripe because I bought a I bought a microfiber white um uh uh dress shirt. I think I might have bought a tie, bought suspenders and all that kind of stuff. I've got a couple of fake mustaches. Your hair's grown long anyway, so I kind of like juzge it up and throw some um foot powder in it and look a bit like Don King. I've got my I love smoking cigars and all that kind of stuff. I've got the mustache and everything. And uh right, so you have to weigh in. Corey Jones is one of the contestants, or what so we're one of the the uh you know, one of the um one of the fighters, one of the one of the competitors, I guess, and um a couple other boys that are uh that were mortal qualified. Some that like had done it and didn't want to admit to it and didn't know they hadn't done really any time, like done the course, that was it. Other guys who actually were in it, so it was kind of just a bit of fun. So we had three undercard events and then um we had the main event, right? And uh and so you know at this point we know like both of them are gonna do it, right? But old mate's still a little bit apprehensive about it. But he's been assured that like it's a fixed fight, so he's good, right? As far as I know, anyway. Maybe he wasn't. Anyway, I'm like, I've got to just play it up totally, right? So like you know, we're we're able to have a couple of beers that day. Some of us may have been able to source a few a few more, right? That definitely that was a pipeline. That's another reason why it was a lot of fun. Had a lot of other things we could talk offline because we don't have enough time um about it and probably get me in some sort of trouble, but other avenues of access to some beers, right? And I'd I'd bought like bottles of bourbon over with me um in my bag because you know I don't drink beer and you know, I don't give my two my two beer ration to somebody else or whatever. Anyway, it was just an Anzac Day, they just there wasn't there wasn't any real like um uh limit. Anyway, so we uh I get uh part of one of the avenues was a pair of Maltese brothers, Australian dudes that would run in the concrete um factory down there and they build all these T-walls and everything. They were one of the hookups and we um I said to them, You reckon you can get two tonnes of sand for me? Like, yeah, man, where do you want it? Like just let us know. So they come to the back gate of of um Camp Russell, right? And and uh I I you know get someone to let them in, right? They back up this tip truck, tip out two ton of sand onto the ring road in Camp Russell because it's all rock, right? And we need some some um sort of soft ground for the plates to rest in, right? Otherwise they'd just be rocky and everything. Anyway, so you know I got some dudes taking care of that, they're spreading it out so that there's enough, there's you know enough for everybody um you know to set if and then like someone put double diamonds and all the kind of stuff. The CO and the RSM, like I said, are the the the commanding officer and the Reginald Sergeant Major of that rotation, they were both SAS cats. Good dudes, it seemed. They um oh we had Quentin Price come and visit as well. So she came for the door on service, she came out there. The GG? Yeah, we yeah, she was a GG at the time, so we waited and um she sort of that sort of ended and everything, and then we went back, and it was still really early, you know, um, went out and back of our buildings and everything, and they came out and had some beers with us, and they heard about what all this stuff was going on, so they're like, cool, we'll come back later and see what's going on. So we had the way in. I mean, by that time there was just this electric energy under the at the back of the comp so we had three buildings at the back of the company headquarters one where we lived in or at the very back, there'd been a deck built with an overhead cover. We then like converted it into essentially a social club. Um, the Sierra Sierra Heights Hunt and Fish Social Club. Um, shout out to it. And um, and so we had a f quite a few occasions there. It was a lot of fun. Again, podcast for another time. And uh, so everyone's out there, it's just like people are like coming to me, I'm trying to get ready and get another ducks in a row, and they're like, man, you've got to get you've got to get this shit on the road. Like, dudes are waiting, you know, like everyone's just ready to go, primed. And I'm like, Cool, cool, cool, that's what I want. We get out there, we do the weigh in, everyone's having a good old time, like, right, cool, everyone outside, you know, ten minutes and we'll get our first contestants anyway. I have like a setup um someone to a um a like a long piece of timber, you know, four by two that like reaches up into the air that I can loop the the um microphone over so that it can be lowered down in front of me just like it does in a in a boxing rig, right? So I can do this intro because I've been spending like the last four weeks coming up with intros for everything you can do.

SPEAKER_02 3:25:29

Yeah, I've got I've got palm cards and everything, mustache, smoking a cigar.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:33

Um I was using a foolishly, not doing at the same time, but I did use a um which was a suggestion from someone else, um uh an 81, uh it might have been a 60 60 mil mortar bomb, perfectly safe and inert um as a microphone for the weighing and everything. Anyway, so on there, you know, we've got the microphone, it comes down and everything, and I the there's footage out there of of all this, right? Not necessarily me talking, but definitely like all of the like activity going anyway. Everyone's out there. I think the SAS cats that were there were just like, oh my, what are these losers doing? Like they're hanging out in their own rooms or whatever. Anyway, they might have come out, I don't know. It's hard to know. There was just all the engineers were there, there was guys from the workshop and stuff like that. So they'd heard about this. Anyway, uh old so new school Bob was definitely said on board. So I said to him, mate, do you mind making a bit of an entrance? He goes, Yeah, absolutely. Put me in coach. So I'm like, cool, right. So I've got a bushmaster driver, he's gonna drive you around the ring road and come from this other way, right, to pres and drop you off at the base plates where we're gonna get set up to the tune of why can't we be friends? Which is great. So everyone just hears this music like, Why can't we be friends? And it's like looking around, like, what the hell is that? And it's just Bob comes driving on top of this thing, he's like standing up there like majestically, like with his hands on his hips, looking out like he's on the the bow of the Titanic or something like that, you know, and everyone just like loses their mind and everything. I was like, yeah. Anyway, we had a great time. He laid on, he lost the the punishment. Was uh a Robocop, which I know for those of you you might not be familiar with, but you know, we talked with a lot of you've uh worked with a lot of poms. Yeah, basically, it's all the hair forward of the earline, you know, around the top of the scalp. So it looks like Robocop, you know, from Robocop Murphy, you know, detective or whatever, policeman Murphy from Robocop when he takes the mask off, right? So just that kind of thing. Like, so Bob graciously loses, knows it's fixed. You know, the guys jump out there immediately, shave it, um, all the hair off and everything, and then he, you know, hung around for a little bit. I think he took a picture and then he shaved the rest of his hair off, and you know, everything was fine. Um he was a good sport about the whole thing. Um and you know, it was it was a great way to celebrate Anzac Day because at the time I was like, man, Anzate Day overseas, like, man, it's just gonna be, you know, like we're not doing nothing. We won't do any jobs that day, probably, and we'll just sort of hang around and do nothing, and it just sort of it's nothing to distract you to remind you that you know everyone's back at home getting on the piss. Turns out we had a great old time. You know, there were some guys that had to be sent to bed early, and I mean early like pre-lunch, um, they got a little too carried away a little too early. Um, but it was a great time. Another quick one of that, all the rage at the moment was those little remote control uh helicopters. That's right, yeah. So all the guys were playing with those, right? And the guys came to me and they're like, Man, can you one of the kilos, he might be worth having a chat to on the um because he looked after the guys that were wounded in that that gig. Um he's the kilo for that. He um he's like, Man, can you organise something? And I'm like, sure, man. Um right, cool. So they basically just had this like obstacle course that they had to negotiate with this remote control helicopter, right? And it it culminated in a literally a ring of fire. We found a uh a timber um uh pallet, which I knocked all the panels out of and used that as a stand, and then literally we poured um lighter fluid around it and then lit it on fire. Um and the guys had to fly through that at the end to to light, and whoever can who were can negotiate this this this um obstacle course the quickest with their helicopter and make it intact through the ring of fire, one. Um so like some of the um I forget the call sign, I forget what they were called, the the Apache you know um or the squadron that we had attached to us and we worked a lot with, they came down, there's pictures of them like with the helmets on. I'm sure Norm's probably got a picture or whatever. They were really getting into it, they let the other guys hold it while they were flying thing. There was guys throwing things at these helicopters, and it was just mayhem and calamity. At one point, that ring of fire nearly collapsed on top of me. I was wearing this microfiber shirt, and I was like, man, about a felon, I would have just gone up in flames and you know, it'd be how do you explain that to the at the uh at the medical center? Like, uh yeah, so we were just uh you know, anzic day, beers ring of fire, you know. Like, um why are you wearing a dress shirt and the you know anyway? So like I just took it as an opportunity, maybe there'd be something, and sure enough, there was an opportunity to use that particular setup, and we had a good old time. And I think it's like honestly, it's if it's not the greatest Anzate Day of that, it's definitely it's in the top three. And it's you know, norm enough for norm to have to bring it up and say that we had to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:32

Um and again, it's boring listers you have to.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:34

No, that's fucking that's that's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:36

Use the use the 30 second skip function on the on uh Apple Podcasts to just get you know, skip through all this. Yeah, I'm indulging myself here, I apologise.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:45

Yeah, probably talking a little too quickly with the SF and uh talking too much about ourselves. No costumes.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:51

I don't know, mate. But having said that, I never got involved in any kind of you know um inappropriate well at least at least I didn't get captured on film, I guess, and get put across um news media. Yeah, yeah, there were no like, you know, schwash stickers or anything like that. If anything, it was just me dressing up like you know as as a as a boxing promoter, the slash, you know, weird-looking Mario Luigi kind of dude. I've got a photo on my photo.

SPEAKER_03 3:30:14

I think Quinton might have posted it one time in our chat, you know, I just miss your calling as a promoter, just in in general.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:20

Mate, I honestly this this poster takes like pride of play. So I even got them made up in like the big poster size, yeah, like full length size, like boxing posters do, to put on the T-walls around the place, just around where our company was. So from the map chick. Basically, yeah, yeah. So she was like, when she came in, I was like, this is a plan I got. She's like, yeah, buddy, let me let this is great. She you know, she sits and just vets photos, like of a dude like taking a picture of a compound, like, oh yeah, cool. You know, it was facing this direction or whatever, and you know, it's like kind of boring some of it, or just like here, print print some maps out for us, yeah, cool. You know, um, so she was like, This is this great and sunny listening versus Muhammad Ali. Yeah, mate, and like I said, it takes pride of place, and you know, I just I look at it occasionally sitting in my room, you know, doing the things I do and just like man, that was a good time, it was a good day. And yeah, yeah, it was a good way to let about a bit of steam as well. Because you know, we were man, like, you know, at that point we'd only had wounded in action, but it was only a matter of n thankfully, touch we didn't happen, but you know, it would have you know it's potentially just a matter of time before it was a much more you know tragical catastrophic uh circumstances. And yeah. So it was a good way to let off some steam. And we're in the the thick of the fighting season, you know, like right in the thick of it, man, and you know, banging it in with the DEA and you know getting amongst it.

SPEAKER_03 3:31:23

What months were you there for that?

SPEAKER_01 3:31:24

February to August. February to August, yeah. Because obviously then uh So it was the arse end of winter, like we actually did a couple of jobs in the in the snow and there was like you know, snowing in TK, but then after that it just ramped right up.

SPEAKER_03 3:31:34

Yep, yep. And um yeah, mate, that's funny.

SPEAKER_01 3:31:38

And then the Alpha Company took over, which is you know, you're probably gonna it's some you've probably you know spoken to Heston, or you'll probably will at some point, you know, like that's the rotation that um you know he's been a bit more vocal about in some of the aspects of things that he's been you know, the comment about that.

SPEAKER_03 3:31:51

Um you know Gallagher Gallagher and uh McDonald's passed away as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:31:58

Yeah, good bloke, good bloke. Been to been to too many um ram ceremonies and funerals.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:04

That's it, mate. So fucking when the boys can let their hair down, let them let their fucking hair down. Any other media organization out there that's painted a different picture, go get fucked. Go fuck yourselves.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:14

I don't want to get into it, but sometimes I wonder what they're thinking when they some of the things they say and do, you know, like it's easy to get yourself in the mirror.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:20

Yeah, it's easy to comment when they're sitting in their fucking in their rooms eating, you know, fucking Jenny Craig or something.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:26

Yeah, well, you know, there's also context as well. Exactly. Like I've seen if you had seen a picture of the state people were in, you know, a couple hours into that activity, you would have just been like, what are they doing? Like they're on ops, what are they yeah, but it was a day off and we didn't have anything the next day. And and honestly, as as much as I got amongst it, and I again it's not I don't this is not to deflect, I don't drink a lot, but we did party and enjoy ourselves and be sociable on that trip, for our team, right? Um, you know, there were there were guys involved romantically with some of the um women that were around the camp and stuff like that, and like I said, we had those Malt Teeth brothers, shout out to those. Um and they're great dudes, you know, and they like help us out. And they were also we use them for um targets, which is where I'll get into the 50 cow shoot that we'll finally get around to after like six hours of me talking. Yeah. Um sorry, yeah. We you know, we burnt the candles at both ends a little bit with with you know getting a bit of the action of that. Um you know, anyway, the well I was getting to the point of that shit story was uh that as in terms of like enjoying ourselves, is it we didn't do it before going on a gig, like we weren't rocking up shit faced, you know, going out on a job. Like we I can say to say we weren't doing that, you know. Um we knew when we had the time between a gig where it was safe, we'd have a couple of beers at night time, you know, and then that was it. Yeah. Um there were the couple occasions, you know, because we had a couple of KOAs that Blaine Didden's was uh another bloke, you know. So there was a couple of times where you know there was an opportunity to have a little bit of a drink and let it off. And you know, we've had again, we had some like other other um sources that came out. And one I'm particularly proud of, which I'm not gonna incriminate myself with, but um may have gained access to uh connects. Um another bloke discovered, same guy that took this shot, he discovered the uh bloke importing it through some Russian pilots.

SPEAKER_02 3:34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:34:03

Man, that was hectic. That was at the end of the trip, and I was like, man, if we had to discover that at the beginning, we probably all would have died in some like in some way, shape, or form, you know, like just from it me, sheer exhaustion and from them. Um, you know, probably haven't reviewed too many drinks on occasion just because you know it was easy to do. Um, because there's guys literally it's like if you had the money, they'll bring it in. Like it was just you know, it was just incredible. I backed the bloody you'd up that day, and they just literally pushed a stack off that was as tall as me, you know, like almost as tall as you, that that's how many cartons were stacked on top of each other, and so like hid them under a hid them under a blanket and um yeah, CSM sort of might have caught us and came back later and you know bought a carton, and so like it was all it was it was kind of funny because that wasn't that was the night it was at the end of the trip and we had our piss up, you know, like a little bit of an occasion to say like good on you, there's no more no more jobs after this, you know, you're going home in a couple of days and yeah, um but it was good times. It was good times. And I was good, yeah, just just loving it. Absolutely loving it.

SPEAKER_03 3:34:52

Yeah, mate, fuck best time of your life. Now you get back back to Holesworthy, uh you spend what the next couple of years 2013, 2015 on tag, and then 2016. This is where you look at pulling a pin. Is there a reason for this? Just time's come and Yeah, yeah, basically, mate. Like just you know, obviously SATG won down, fucking the war on uh fucking terrorism is kind of fucking done.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:21

It was over. Um so there's no more cool trips. Um was looking down the barrel of how the unit was going at the future, how it looked at the time. It'd just start blousing your trousers. Yeah, exactly. You know, and it's silly, man. Like I look talk about it now and it just seems petty, but like, you know, we couldn't wear berets in where we had to put slouch hats on. We had to have name tags. Slouch hats. Yeah, we we couldn't have we had multicam back then. You had to. They were making youar slouch hats. Yeah. Sun Sun Smart being Sun Smart. It's ridiculous, right? Um name tags, you couldn't have you know how like uniform you might you wear at different times and different versions of it, and sometimes it fades at different rates. Yeah. You weren't allowed to wear, you had to had to be matching, you know, stuff like that. It was just like of all the things we had to worry about, and we're back in the barracks, I I don't think this is important, and I just couldn't I honestly I couldn't wrap my head around and I couldn't um uh I don't justify it's not the word, but I couldn't I just couldn't remediate, I guess, for lack of a better term with myself. Like we've been going on ops and doing these jobs and then all of a sudden this is what we're worried about, you know, and and and there was that some guys again just and it's typical and there's nothing against them, they'd locked it in as a as a career, and you basically, you know, you can you either go along with the tune that's been being um played or you know you get you know forced out, I guess. And so, you know, like the environment, the working environment we're in was a little bit toxic, and you know, I I played a part in that too. And uh and then like I said, I just looking at the way the army was going and all these sort of rules and everything, I just you know I wasn't able to um yeah, I was I wasn't I wasn't I didn't see a future with me getting along with with that um particular environment. And you know, in my mind I was like, I can always come back, you know, I never was gonna, but um, I could always come back if I wanted. If I decided whether it was about a dear, I just I just needed some separation, yeah, you know, um I come back and it was still it was still a good time. Like the uh half the company had gone to Iraq and I had absolutely no interest in doing it. We did a couple of protective security details, because less than half of us were left back there. And basically, Delta Company was going to have that whole year in Iraq, so it would just swap over the other half of guys would go and they'd probably back up a couple of dudes or take some guys from other companies. So basically it was just like, okay, don't worry about not going this half of the year, you'll go the second half of the yeah. I was like, I don't want to go any half of the year, I'm not interested. I don't want to go to Iraq, hang out at an airbase, and and train dudes to go out and do ops. I'm I'm just like, I don't want to be home for six away for six months doing something that I don't really have a huge interest in in the environment which I was operating in with certain people. I was like, I'm not gonna look forward to hanging out with them for six months, they're not gonna enjoy it either. So, you know, I think that was just one of the contributing factors to a number of other things where I was like, you know what? I'm the dude who's rocking the boat here, and if I get out, the rocking will stop. So, you know, it's time to leave the boat, you can always come back if you need to, kind of thing. You know, the army's not going anywhere. Um, so yeah, it was just a combination of things. I think I'd had enough a little bit. There was another cool job going on, didn't really see a future, and I'm not to say that there isn't one there to anyone that's thinking about it. But you know, it's just like you you get to that pinnacle, I guess, and then you know, it's the same sort of issue people have now when it's they come down the other side of that pinnacle and they're like chasing, you know, the dragon essentially, you know, chasing wet at the top, the sort of thing, like you know, and that's what guys are adjustment issues and other aspects of it, you know, and and you know, I guess abusing substances themselves and stuff like that, and having a bit of a hard time, which thankfully I haven't had, you know, I have a little bit of problem with my anger, I guess, but you know, um like yeah, it just it was it was time to go. I had a good time, had a good run. And you know, um that's where I met you, mate. Like I I literally I everyone was jumping ship in the sort of 12 months prior to that, um, which were on team going working off with Hart and Kabul. Opportunity came up, I got um it didn't go any further, I didn't need anybody at the time, yeah. They they were flush with dudes. And then uh has it some other guys that got over to the uh unit uh URG contract at um the Baghdad Embassy, and I literally I literally was in Iraq on one of those PSDs with I think the Governor General was was um Cosgrave at the time, and the guys were like, Oh, Chris is here, he's like, he's starting work with us next week. And like literally, I was like finishing that job, flying home. I had five days, I was back on a plane, landing in baggers and and getting on the contract, and I was like, that's you know, I thought you were there the week prior. Almost it was like just a bit less than two weeks prior. Yeah, yeah. So Dusty, who was the PM at the time. Yeah, when our when our bloke that was with the principal came because you guys took over security for that um aspect of the visit, right? We still send our you know our principal officer with him, right? To you know, even though he ends up being like seven cars behind or whatever, because you guys take, you know, the contract takes over because they're the ones responsible for it. Um he knew Dusty because they're but X2, right? So and he and then he mentioned my name because he's seen it on a list or something like that, and it's like, oh yeah, Chris, uh he's like he's he's back there at the because my job at that particular time was uh executive officer, I was looking after airframes and making sure everyone's got their bags, you know, and another another aides left a handbag or something like that, you know, or forgot forgot their pants or something, you know. Because man, some of them people, like despite the fact that the rank they have, they I I like you just wonder how they look after themselves in in their like personal life. Like it there's no different d army time to home time, like it's the same thing ultimately, like you know, making sure you have everything and you've got every every one and all that kind of stuff. So that was my job. So I didn't actually see Dusty, but Dusty's like, oh, Chris, he's uh he's coming to work for us in a week. So yeah, I um I literally finished up, it was the 16th of September, which is my old man's birthday, and as it turns out, it's my son's birthday now, which is kind of cool. So that's another reason why I remember that day. And five days later I landed in baggers and met you, and you taught me how to um change a tire on a up arm SUV. Yeah. For full clarity, I already knew how to change a tire on a car. But you have to go through the you know the training beforehand, make sure everyone's on the same sheet of music, you know. I know I don't look like a dude that gets his hands dirty, you know, like I've never touched a never touched reason in my life. I'm too delicate, but uh yeah. Well we did a I've watched a YouTube video.

SPEAKER_03 3:40:57

We did a we did a few tie changes and and it wasn't by yeah it was it was be it was by default we had to do those fucking tie changes.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:04

Yeah, sometimes you make us pull up and if we've done a short a short job, you make us pull up and go, like, cool, we're gonna do a yeah. I guess it's good training. I mean, I think I understand the idea. Uh I arguments are both, and I agree with both to some degree. You know, like in you know, right place, right time, maybe not, but then also too, it's like it's it's you know, that's when you're gonna have to do it, is probably when you don't really want to and you're out in the street and there's traffic going past and the potential you know you're a bit vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 3:41:29

So I understand his thought process behind it, but I don't know if it's you know if it's a if it's a necessarily a especially if you're a silly Brit and you've reversed over the fucking spikes. Yeah, those checkpoints. While you got the ambassador in the vehicle. Is that great? Then something else. Now it's another time. This team reversed over, didn't realise until they got bagged they had fucking flat tires. Obviously, run on the run flats, it was only up the road. Anyway. Because I I I'm a bit of a shit starer as well. I fucking manufactured these little speed uh speed um spikes and put them up on the stairs on on their level. And it was and I put these little markers and said, watch out. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:13

It's a little bit of gentle ribbing. It's good for you know it is, mate. It's perfectly healthy. It's perfectly healthy.

SPEAKER_03 3:42:18

Great from Rouse. So um so you leave that contract after about a year.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:23

Yeah, I did 12 months. Basically, I told myself, didn't tell everyone else on the contract. I ended up going to Kabul. Yeah, not too long after that. So basically, like I I you know I did a video call online uh you know over Zoom or whatever and you know got the gig. In my mind, I was like, I just need you know, maybe it's not particularly uh attitude to have it, I was like, I just need a job that's it's gonna be an easy transition because I don't know what I'm gonna be like getting out. Everyone I know that's done it has had some sort of issue, or at least, you know, it's pardon me, pretty common for people to have an issue. Um, and so I don't know how I'm gonna go. I thought I'd be fine, but you know, who who who can be sure, right? And uh so I just need a job while I look for something else and I'll just do it for 12 months. And I didn't really look for any other work, it just happened to come to me. Um and it was a combination of things had a at a mate's wedding in Hawaii, and I didn't want to like have to, you know, do half of a trip or have someone look after or whatever. And guys were like, man, you just you know get someone to look after you a bit and then you come back, and like I said, I was like, No, no, it's fine, you know, I'll just I'm happy with that and you know, thanks for you know, thanks for the offer and um you know it was it was a pleasure working with you as all and you know I'll see he's around, I'm sure. And at the same time, too, I must admit, uh security wasn't really my where my passion lies. Um I've done some other jobs since then in that in that industry in various capacities, but um it was an easy job, and you know, basically I would describe it as a a Baghdad taxi driver. Yeah. Um, you know, still enjoyable and uh it was you know a great bunch of dudes to work with and uh it's it's definitely allowed me to access other opportunities, you know, not just because of the history, like work history, but then also people. Um so yeah, around that 12 sort of month mark, um had some personal things that I wanted to go and do, and then also um a mate who um from two was running a small team for a a high net worth, ultra high net worth individual in Sydney who's looking for another member of their team. Being two, we had a couple extra two guys there, and he wanted to basically you know fill it with known quantity. Um and uh and so you know through the grapevine, someone gives me a call, drops me messages and says, Oh, are you you know you're thinking about doing this? This is you know, because I think I talked to a good mate of mine who you know um knew I wanted to like work from Australia, you know, stop going away for two months and all that kind of stuff. So he you know got in contact with me. Long story short, I come back to Australia, come back and do a do an interview with these guys and um get the gig and and uh and like you know start Monday kind of thing. And um and basically again it was just like being security for this dude's mansion, five story mansion at the time was like the most expensive piece of property to being bought in Australia, at least in Sydney anyway. Um, you know, and he sort of is you know lived there half half you know a period of time of the year and that and he you know he's an is he was an Australian citizen, but he's also a foreign national as well and um didn't really have any interaction with him. I mean he did the one visit while I was there, otherwise some of his family, his his children and stuff would were living there periods of time then. Other times there was no one in the house. Just do twelve twelve hour um shifts, you know, just making sure everything's you know, with all their cars and all their expensive stuff in their house was you know not getting broken into or someone jumping, you know, like New Year's Eve, they'll worry about you know kids jumping the fence and using the the pool because they had a beautiful view of the harbour and that sort of stuff. So it was really just like you know, just living in the place kind of thing, so to speak, you know, just like giving you a bit of protection to it. It was yeah, it was pretty benign. Um but you know, it paid really well. And uh I got you know in that time got married to my uh beautiful wife, and we'd been talking about for some time that you know she's in advertising and marketing that she wanted to go and do that in New York City or London. And I'd recently visited New York City, we'd also gone there together, and I was like, I could definitely live in this in this city. Like, and if we're gonna do it, now's the time. So I went to work, said, look, sorry guys, really appreciate this. I know it'd been here like three months, you know, two seconds, but um you know, wife's got a job offer and we're going, and um she left her job and you know we literally packed up the house and we moved over there and lived there for two years, and man, it was it's great. I don't like you you spent some time in New York City and uh talking about it, and it was just I didn't even scratch the surface of it, lived there for you know two years, and I just even now it's just the lure of it. Sorry, Mom. Yeah, but uh the lure of it is just is too much. We we decided to come back because we want to start a family and that wasn't the place to do it.

SPEAKER_03 3:46:15

Um about that time we're on the same plane.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:19

Were we? Was it us?

SPEAKER_03 3:46:20

Yep, yep, it was me and you. Uh I got on the plane, I was flying to the US and And I got off it maybe? No, you were getting on as well. You you were on the plane. Oh sorry man. It's Cornflakes.

unknown 3:46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:46:34

Sorry, man, I don't remember that. Maybe um actually it might have been a connecting flight in the US. Maybe. I don't know. Sorry, man, I can't remember. I've got a photo I've got a photo. I'll find it on my phone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:44

Picture in the back of your head with a term stamp and I'll probably work out where where it was. Um because man, we flew out, we end up visiting 50 states. Yeah, sorry, 48 of the 50 states. Um proper visits, like going there, spending the weekend a week, doing road trips, all kinds of stuff. And like it, you know, we ended up coming back during COVID. And you know, I I I'm proud to say I survived uh like a hundred plus days in the epicentre of COVID in the world, and um, you know, it was pretty um a non-event to be honest with you. I mean there was stuff going on, so not to be incentive, but um like it, you know, it seemed a lot worse on the news than than what it did being there in person. Um but it was a it was a cool place to live and I um managed to get myself a job in a uh very fine uh cigar um establishment. Yeah, nice. So like dudes would you know, like come and visit and then they go back and you know, mutual friends would be like, Oh, yeah, you know, what's Chris doing? Like people are like, Oh, I went to US and I've seen Chris in New York City, and like, hey cool, what's he doing yourself? And they're like, Oh, he's working in a cigar shop, and they're like, What I ask? Of course he is. Okay. Is he dressed in a matching tracksuit or with a fake mustache on? No, it was uh it was it was it was amazing, man. It was an amazing time dressing a suit every day, wearing nice watches, and just you know, smokes try to smoke less cigars than I um than I sold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, fire out there. Right there in the heart of the city on Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street. Yep. Main library, bloody uh Empire State building there. I'd get up, I'd come up out of Times Square every day, walk across the across the park behind the library and that. I was like, man, this is this is mate, this is living. Um did a little I'd quickly tell I guess the story if it we've got the time. Yeah, did the uh we're talking about security. Um this is my claim to fame, so this will be on my headphone somewhere, but I did um no big deal, but I did uh security for JLO for one day. Um so we're became good mates with a dude over there who's in the film and television industry. And uh he got we got talking with him and asked Amy and I what what we're doing, and you know, mentioned you know she was in advertising and I was in you know security is what I you know, was the word that I use because I just came out of you know that industry, I guess, and didn't feel the need to tell everybody, and I was also a veteran, you know, or anything like that. It just usually comes up in conversation at some point, I guess. Um so he goes, Man, well I'll put you in contact with a dude that I know that does security, and I was like, Yeah, cool, no worries. So, long story short, we get put in contact with each other and because it took a little while and and some other things, I had to go get a license and uh New York State license, and um anyway, his name's George, he contacts me and he goes, Man, are you are you available for these dates? Um and I'm like, Yep, sure. And I've just started the job at the cigar place, like a couple weeks or something like that, and so it's a little bit hard to like just ask for a day off because one of those days I wasn't actually free. But anyway, I managed to swing it. At this point I don't know what it what it's for, right? So I I travel over to uh Long Island City to this address that he's given me, and uh it's um it's a strip joint, uh soon discover, and it's just like there's trailers and lights and people everywhere, and that and work out that it's uh a movie set and that uh it happens to be um this job happens to be with Jennifer Lopez and she's filming at this point in time. She's not actually there, but they're filming the Hustler movie. Or Hustlers, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I haven't yet to see anyway. So I managed to remember walking through the set and everything, and it's the interior, and then people are looking at me, and I just sort of think like it's just strange, all these extras, you know, I guess they were just bored and nothing else to look at because I'm like, I'm not anyone special. If you're looking for a job, just don't look at me, I'm not I'm not an executive or anything like that. And so we threw and I meet, you know, a chief of staff or whatever, and um, and then you know, George says to me, you know, gives me the details and he's like, How do you feel about it? I was like, Yeah, man, I'll bang it in for you, no drums, because he's got another client he's gonna bring in for this occasion. Because she's gonna come into New York City, go to where they film the Today Show or whatever one of those morning shows is, do a do a segment there, dance and all that kind of stuff, do it, do an interview, and then later that night she'll go to the Met Gala, um, which is a huge thing in in New York City at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Right, big, big thing. And um and I'm like, yeah, man, I can bang. And he's I think he was taking CR or something like that, so he couldn't do the job. Anyway, I'm like, yeah, cool, no worries. And um so I I go home and I think I'll like it's the next day or two or whatever, and I've got to go into um into the studio just to do like a little recce with the because he had a had an ex-New York detective who was like you know the sort of um advanced party for us, so he'd go set the conditions, make sure everything was good, and you know, entries, exits, and all that kind of stuff, and just like sort of, you know, because I was gonna be in the car with her, it's a little hard to do that kind of stuff, as you know, when you just rock up on the on the at the venue. So um he he was there, I met him, you know, met the security for the you know the studio and they talked us through, they walked us through how they're gonna where they're gonna go and all the sequence and everything for this sort of stuff. Um I remember like seeing people already like camped out on the street, and I'm like, that isn't for Mondays. And like, oh no, that's for Saturday Night Live. People literally camp on the street so they can get into the the studio ones for Saturday Night Live. Anyway, we did the whole thing and everything. I I go home, I get paid, you know, like quite quite good money for that day, and I was only there for a couple hours or whatever, and uh and just tell the wife, like, on Monday I'm just gonna I've got this job with George and I'm gonna be gone all day and I'll probably see you on Tuesday, right? And she knows not to ask just because it wasn't for any other reasons, just like security. It's like I'm I'll we can talk about it afterwards, but prior to that, I feel like as a professional, you shouldn't talk, you know, it's a little it's there's a second, it's operational security, and it's just a reasonable thing for the client to expect from their from the you know security professional. Um plus I also didn't want to lose no mind and you know and carrying on about because I was like, it's not a big deal, right? Even though I guess it kind of is, but it's not. So anyway, Monday morning, super early, like five o'clock or whatever, I rock up. I'm standing outside the apartment building with the driver. Jeff's a good dude, this um African-American bloke, he's a little bit older, but he's you know he's previously served and um in like Armor Corps or something like that. Really good dude. And he's been with JLo for some years. Anyway, you know, she's been up like since three in the morning doing hair and makeup or whatever. We're gonna drive up town, she's gonna do a rehearsal, and then she'll get dressed, and then she'll come out and do the actual performance. Do her interview, get in the cars, or drive off. And so, you know, basically that's what we do. And I'm just standing there, you know, like close by the whole time and um trying to look, you know, tough. If I can even do that, you know, like trying to be imposing because I'm, you know, I'm 70 kilos ringing wet and you know, like five foot nothing or whatever. And uh and you know, everyone's sort of like you know, really uh quite professional there, but also um as if like kind of making a bigger I guess it's the way you gotta do it, it's just the expected from those people in that in that in that environment, you know better. Like they just sort of seem like it makes a bigger deal than what it is. So I'm like, man, she's just you know, she's just a chick kind of thing. It's cool, whatever, you know, she's 50, she looks, she looks good for age, but you know, like anyway, so um not to play it down, like I was super excited about the whole thing, but at the same time, I was just kind of like it's not a big deal. Anyway, so you know, at one point she's in the green room getting ready or whatever, and then she's like, I need to go to the toilet. I'm like, cool, uh, come this way. So we walk, take her down the hallway. The toilet is just like a hallway section with like three or four individual cubicles, kind of like the way that we have um disabled toilets, right? You know, so there's a big, big old space in there for you to throw yourself around on that kind of thing if that's what you're doing while you're in there. Anyway, what I thought was super, I stand outside. What is a reasonable distance, I'm not loitering around the toilet, but I'm also there to provide security when she comes out and she knows where she's going because she's got absolutely no idea where she's walking, right? She's literally like point or whatever the door, you know, I've got to literally lead her through doors and stuff like that, and otherwise you get lost, which would be awkward to explain. Anyway, someone comes and waits, and I just feel like oh, I'm not, I'm not waiting, and I just take one another step away. Anyway, the first cubicle to become available opens up at the door opens up, and there's JLo standing there. And the person tries to act real cool about it, right? And then I try not to laugh because I'm thinking, like, you know what it's like when you you go immediately into a cubicle after someone else has just been in there, you know, like what kind of like uh smell and that is in there, you know, that like the old mate's just gonna go in there after J-Lo's uh you know dropped the kids off at the pool or whatever, and uh like that you know, it's kind of awkward, you know. It's like it's fine if it happens, but if you see the person make eye contact with them after they, you know, the door opens, it's kind of weird, you know. And so I just try to pretend like I'm just invisible or whatever, and I'm just there, you know, as the dude that just makes sure she gets where she's got to go and come no comes no harm. We go back to the green room and I just you know sort of thought it was kind of funny, and then we go upstairs and she does the performance and then we take her inside and I got a cool picture of me standing behind the cameras. More more for posterity and like the fact that I actually, you know, in the future when I forget because of my traumatic brain injuries or whatever, or just old age, that I can say to my kids, no, I actually did like hang out with JLo for one day. Not that anyone they'll ever know what she is, because she'll be like a hundred and probably dead by then, but you know, it's like just just to remember the occasion, right? And uh and there's like like and not that my wife wouldn't have or my family wouldn't have um uh believed me, but I just thought, you know, why not? I'm here, I took up the sneaky little photo of her sitting there and um anyway, so you know, hang out with them for the day. And then she was going out with Alex Rodriguez, the uh New York Yankee baseball player at that time, they no longer are. Um anyway, he um so they get ready for the Met Gala, I come back in the evening time. Um she's she's wearing quite an amazing dress and everything. And there's a picture around that time that she posts on Instagram that day or later that night or whatever or someone did it for her, I guess, where I actually am like sitting behind the camera like I could like literally like my my big nose and brush against old mate's head and poke him in the back of the noggin. Um, because they're in the back of one of those like luxury high um sprinter vans, you know, he's been sprint events and that. Um and we're cruising up, they block off, I think it's Fifth Avenue or whatever, whichever one it is, and you come around onto sixth or come outside the the the Met the museum. Um and so the people just line the streets, man, going nuts, you know, and trying to work out who's in which car and all this kind of stuff. And like I, you know, I'm just sitting in there just going, man, we just need to negotiate, like, make sure the doors are locked, because old mate had had uh literally we had the car behind us with their like entourage, literally in traffic, run from their car and jump in to out, like open the unlock the door and jump in to finish off her makeup or something like that. And I'm like to the driver, like, what are you doing, mate? Like, get the door locked. We could just anyway, I'll hope I could just jump in here, you know. Like, I'm thinking we're reasonably secure anyway. So I was like fully cognizant of that now, like I actually have to explain some of these things to people. I was like, I didn't this guy does this for a living, I didn't think I'd need to. Anyway, so he was a nice enough dude, but a little bit, you know, inexperienced, as it turns out. So anyway, we um and old Rodriguez didn't help by literally turning the interior lights on so everyone could see who he was inside this thing. So then people started going nuts and like following the car, and I was like, uh great. Here I was just thinking I make some easy money, you know, hang out, take some pictures, tell everyone how cool I am, and like go home anyway. So and it turned to me fine. They went into the to the Met Gala. Uh I hung around like a bad smell out the front, you know, chatting with George because his client was in there, um, and you know, seen a whole lot come out, like Katy Perry and Bet Midler and oh Nicki Minaj. So this is another thing too. It's funny, you've probably seen this too before, man. Everyone wants to be the last person to arrive to get full attention. So we intentionally were late so that J Lo could be there, but then Nicki Minaj was like, no, no, no, hold my beer. And she literally had six dudes have to lift her train out of the the vehicle she came in and lay it down and roll it out and then attach it to her. The thing must have weighed like a ton. I don't know how she managed to walk down the red carpet, or it's pink or whatever it was, down the carpet and get in. So like everyone's trying to outdo each other. Jared Leto was there with a with a uh mould of his own head carrying it around under his arm in his like red dress. It looked a bit androgynous, a bit like David Bowie sort of thing. And uh it was just real interesting, mate. Like, you know, and then they all came out shit-faced and like they're all sitting around talking and still chatting, and we're trying to get him in cars, and the security is like, man, we're you know, we're gonna your cars got like literally a 30-second exposure. If you don't get them in there, they're going back around the block, you'll be here for ages, you know, probably another hour or something like that. And so you're just bit of you know a bit vulnerable at that point. You know, you don't know if someone's gonna jump the jump the other s the barricade the other side of the the street or whatever, but yeah, man, this is like you know, they're all drunk talking and stuff like that. You're like, look, sir, you need to get in the vehicle, we need to go. Like, otherwise, you know, and eh, whatever, mate, yeah, cool, you know, that sort of thing. And it's just like, man, this is not something I want to do for a living. Yeah, it was nice to do one time, maybe another time, you know. Odd odd job if I do it in the future. But I was like, man, could do it for a living, it must just be painful. Yeah, that's what I do. And that's what you do, mate. So that's what I do. So good on you, mate. It takes yeah, it's it takes some patience, I think.

SPEAKER_03 3:58:16

A lot of patience, a lot of yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:58:18

But you know, I I I enjoyed it. It was cool. It was a cool little memory. And as it turns out, he actually made a YouTube video and I appear on it for like literally a blink of an eye, somewhere along it at like I don't know how many minutes, because the missus went and tracked it down, so did my sister, because my sister's like, stop it, shut the gate. You did not, you did not hang out with your you know, and and I like what I also did was um we had their uh invitations. So I I like to take a little memento as souvenir from little things. So I've got flags from here and I've taken I may or may not have you know uh borrowed some things in the past that I haven't returned. Um and one of them was there, which they weren't interested in, their invitations. So I've got their personalised invitations that I had in the car, which I took, slipped everything, and I was like, walked home. It ended up not being a late night, so they didn't do any after parties, thank god. And so we finished about midnight or something like that, and I got home and uh you know, rock up in my suit and Mrs. is so lake and she's like, I wasn't expecting to see you yet, and um I was like, She's like, How'd the day go? I was like, Good, check this out. Just like handed her the invitation. She just like her face was just like, No way. And I was like, Yeah, who would have thought? Like, you know, little walk kid from Sydney doing yeah security for J Lo in New York City. Benji Marshall doing security. Yeah, Benji.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:23

Yeah, right, mate. Fuck. So mate, we've been here for I don't know. Sorry. Mate, we've been chatting for four hours. Sorry, mate. I'm sorry about this.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:31

I'm sorry to all you listeners. I honestly I get carried away. Just skip this one.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:36

Yeah, mate. This will this will run uh a couple of trips in the in the in the car. So mate, it's been absolutely fucking crazy to hear you know, your full what story in four hours. You know, you can't fit a fucking life story into a podcast. Uh-huh. You have to write a book like the rest of them.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:55

I'll get on to that.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:57

Norm, if you're listening. Yeah. Help me out, mate. Now, mate's um I've got three final questions uh that I ask all my guests. And that first question is I guess, you know, what advice can you give to people just to complete their goals, you know, um and just crush it, whatever they do. You know, you you kind of you found purpose as a young kid, you wanted to join the military, and then you know, you made your way to the dizzy top uh within the special forces side of things and and I crumped a couple of Taliban, which is fucking literally only a couple, mate. Which is a dream.

SPEAKER_01 4:00:36

Plenty of other people did a lot more than I did. Yeah, I I you know honestly operated in the in the uh company of some extraordinary individuals. Yeah, of course. Absolutely, just chasing after it. You I mean I didn't work with him, but you look at you know um you look at uh Bertie, and just like anyone that talks about him, you know, just an absolute warrior and a champion dude. What little interaction I had with him, you know, certainly certainly I I you know would agree with that or I seen with it. Um in terms of like as a person, him as a person, I never seen him operate in the in the field, although there's plenty of footage out there. Yeah so you know, it proves it. Um but to your question, mate. You played your part. Just take that. You played your part. I'm just uh just an average you know, a little warkey from Sydney, mate. I did my bit, you know, I'm happy with that. You know, I'm just the promoter. Yeah, it doesn't keep me up later night, I've got self-esteem about it, all good. But yeah, I'd certainly, you know, there's been some extraordinary stories out there from Tucumino that you haven't even screwed, or even I would say uh I would argue, West Coast, haven't even scratched the surface of me. Hey, just close literally closing with the enemy.

SPEAKER_03 4:01:34

That's it if they if they're listening and want to tell their story. Touch out and reach that bad boy.

SPEAKER_01 4:01:38

Yeah, just you know, you're crazy, man. I don't know if I and our our mutual mate Trigger, isn't Delta Company there? I know you've been trying to get him on. Trigger, if you're listening. Man, you've got to come tell your story, dude. Because honestly, I recount an an element of it to people when we're talking, because some people also know him, and we, you know, I'm a choco now, and so sometimes I meet three eye dudes. Yep. And man, I like I don't even know if I'm doing the story justice, but I'm like, he is literally the cr the luckiest dude I've ever met in my life. And I reckon if even one of those things happened to me, I would have lost my nerve and been out. I would have I would have discharged earlier than that. I reckon I like I like to think that I'm a tough guy and I would have been fine, but I don't know if I could have you know getting shot and you know blown up and you know trigger mate.

SPEAKER_03 4:02:14

Just you're listening. My first ever photo on Facebook was me and trigger.

SPEAKER_01 4:02:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:02:19

Yeah, back in 2008. He's such a nice dude, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:02:21

I know he I know he's just he's like, uh no one wants to hear my story. No one hears to my story. Oh, but I'm here. I mean, they can just skip it if they don't want, you know. You go to episode 100 and whatever it is, you know, like oh Chris, yeah, that guy he talks too much, you know. I mean I've got four hours to waste with this guy and he's shit stories.

SPEAKER_03 4:02:35

Dressing up as Jesus just blessing every vehicle.

SPEAKER_01 4:02:38

Yeah, he's not talking about anything actually cool or tactical, he's just talking about how awesome he is dressing up like an idiot. No. Again, sorry I digress, uh, listeners and and Matt, but answered your story. I don't know if I can add anything that hasn't been said in this many episodes, but you say it pretty good when you say just do it. And I 100% agree with that. I think if you have whatever it is, it doesn't have to be in the military or enforcement or anything like that. That if you have something that you really want to do and you get your heart set on it, within reason, don't allow anybody to tell you that you can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 4:03:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:03:09

Go and work that out for yourself. It it's you you don't know until you give it a go, and you have no idea in some cases what exactly it is that someone might be looking for and a particular thing that you're looking to do, or what the reason for it is. It may not even be something that someone else makes a determination on. And I just think it you're crazy to die wandering. It you know, I uh some of the best advice I ever got was always hear guys in the battalions, I'm sure it still happens going, Oh, I don't know if I'm ready for it. I'll give it another year, I'll do selection next year or whatever. And I had a bloke who uh he done some time in, he'd also done time as a boot neck. So he's one of those guys that we know, you know, Australian citizen, jewel jewel citizen, and he just said, let them decide. And the moment I heard that That I was like, that's how that's how I live my life by. Let them decide. Exactly. They know what they're looking to select in the the the personalities, the traits, attributes, and things like that. You just do it, turn up, do what they say, do it to the best of your ability, attack it a hundred percent, and and hopefully you're successful. You know, and obviously that's not like I said, selection isn't something that everyone has to go through to to to you know achieve their chosen profession. But don't don't die wandering. Just go and do it and if you have no luck, maybe go back and attack it from another angle. You know, take the experience. I mean, like they they say that you know you're not starting from scratch, you're starting from experience. And maybe that's what you need. I mean, I in the same case, maybe a little immature when I first you know attempted selection and you know um or you know, just maybe, you know, like I said, made some mistakes. Um and I think I like to think I rectified those. You know, and here I am telling telling my story to anyone who listen. Um but yeah, absolutely, just give it a shot, do your best. I always like to think uh that this is something that came back to me recently. I used to say it all the time, I'll think about it all the time, especially when we got the battalion, that if someone who was a great operator had to write a operator had to write a list of the people he wanted in his team, you want your name on that list every time. Anyone who gets asked, and you want to be at the top. If you're not if you're not at the top, you're at least somewhere along that list. You know, you rate your mates, the sort of thing that they do in the army a lot, you know, and and that's how I sort of you know cre it uh I guess you know operate, uh you know, treat you know the way that I uh treat my my yeah, and then also too, reputation. You know, I I I got you know I got a strong work ethic and a and a sense of belief in myself and um I you know I don't want to be known as that dude, you know, that liability or something like that, which you know maybe in the past might have been guilty of a couple of times. But uh, you know, certainly you know, where you identify that, try to you know rectify it. Like I said, made a few mistakes. There's a bunch that I haven't mentioned. Um but again that's a podcast for another time. But just for anyone listening out there, you know, you're unsure, just just bang it in. Just do it. Use that confidence, yeah. And you if you what you you know you'll you build it, they'll come. Or in this case, you do it, you'll get better at it. Yeah, exactly. You want to get better at push-ups, do more push-ups.

SPEAKER_03 4:05:51

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Just do it. Fuck it. Just do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:05:54

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:05:55

It's simple, isn't it? So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:05:56

For me, uh, not to not to trivialize it, but it is, man. Like honestly, if I think what's the worst gonna happen? You don't make it? You don't make it, and you get to come back another time. And you're gonna go do something else. Yeah, well, you do something else cool. And plenty of other people didn't have the success, came back, went somewhere else, went with another another direction. You know, you don't know those things until you get to that four thing. Exactly. And then you decide, you know what, I want to go down that direction. And I've been very fortunate in where where where you know life has led me. Um a lot of the things that happened in the last five or six years haven't been, you know, through any it's really just been, to be perfectly honest, it's just been kind of fortunate and luck. You know, I've just at one point my wife said, as long as I've known you, you've never had to you've you've you've done a job interview and you've got a job. And I was like, thought to myself, yeah, that's actually true. That's been a little less so in recent times. Um but yeah, at that point, yeah, I just and again, is my background, you know, two commando connections, that kind of thing. So you know it's a bit more fortunate and a bit more lucky in that in that instance. But having said that, if I hadn't put myself out there to find out whether I could or I couldn't, then you know, we wouldn't be talking about that aspect of it.

SPEAKER_03 4:06:55

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:56

You know, and yeah, just just do it.

SPEAKER_03 4:06:59

Just do it. Unless you're a wonder or a cold blind. Well, yeah, obviously not the most things. Kill yourself.

SPEAKER_01 4:07:05

Exactly. Yeah, kill yourself. Yeah, exactly. We won't uh you know we won't get too political about it that on that. I guess the other thing too, you know, just caveat is there's obviously gonna be times where there's things that you just you just can't do. Exactly. Yeah, within reason you have to understand your limitations. That's another thing, though. A man has to know his limitations. Yeah. It's a famous line from a favourite movie. You've got gotta know your limitations. Clint Eastwood. Clint Eastwood. Dirty Harry, actually, the character, but you've got to know your limitations, man. Yeah. You know, and and having said that, look at plenty of people who you know, you've interviewed them, I've talked heard about them talk about on other podcasts. You know, they don't have the marks out of school, and then next thing you know, they come back and they go and become a pilot. And yeah, they're flying top gun and and come instructor and you know, all sorts of things. You get told as a kid, Matt, you've got no chance, you're an idiot. And, you know, sure enough, they applied themselves, they attacked her from a different angle and came back, and you know, there they are. I mean, there's plenty of dudes we know that didn't even finish high school, joined the army, told themselves, like I did, I didn't, you know, I had the marks to still join up. And and and we got told if you don't finish high school, you never get a job, which is not totally true. And then they've gone back since in their older as a mature student and gone and finished university because they left them the myth on that that you don't have to be smart to get university, you just have to pay the money and turn up. Yeah, like ultimately, yeah. Yeah, apply yourself too is obviously a a a factor there to get the good marks, but like university isn't for super intelligent people. No. There is aspects of it, obviously. Yeah, but if you want to be a doctor or something, yeah. Doctor, engineer, lawyer, you know, you need to do those sorts of things. Having said that, I've got a good mate, didn't finish high school, he just graduated as a lawyer, he's over in Perth. Yeah, right. And yeah, he Yeah, and like I said, just apply yourself. He started out looking at maybe becoming a school teacher. Yeah. And then just along the line, the pipeline, doing the study, realised that you know, law and arguing with people for a living for for good money was where he wanted to be. And actually, funnily enough, there's been a couple of ex-snibbers from Delta Company that have become lawyers. He's not the only one, strangely enough. I think uh it's a common trend people like to argue, I guess. I'm not sure what it is, but certainly you know, it y people can do it, they've proven it. I think this in the age we live in with access to information is dispelling all those myths. Exactly. Yeah, long story short, and to get back to the point of my shit story, the moral of the question is just go and do it.

SPEAKER_03 4:09:11

No, I appreciate it, mate. Yeah. Now, uh second question, what is the plans of the future?

SPEAKER_01 4:09:16

Well, at the moment, I'm a stay-at-home dad, which I absolutely love, and uh I'm a Choco um out west over in the central west, and so I really enjoyed back to where you began. Choco. Yeah, back at full circle, just in a different unit. Um, shout out to the Bushman's Rifles at Legend Blokes out there. Um and I enjoy I've you know I like to think that I've got a lot of experience and that it's still relevant, at least for another couple years, and there's people out there being trained in you know infantry, um, the infantry role, and that I have something to add to that, so that's what I've been doing. So it's mostly where I apply myself. I still turn up um you know for the regular kind of training, but I certainly like you know being utilized and try to focus my energy into um either instructing or you know, role-playing and stuff like that, and you know, adding my two cents worth in where it's you know, where it may or may not be uh w wanted. Um but like I said, I just feel like I have a bit of experience and there's a lot of guys that got out and gone into other avenues and and that that uh combat and wartime experience and just is being lost, right? And um, you know, again, like I said, at some point it'll be it yeah, it'll be a little irrelevant, but there's probably a few more years yet before that yeah becomes a case. Yeah. In which case, you know, I'll just quietly disappear into the sunset and take my shit stories with me. But at the moment, um you know I'm enjoying it, I get a lot of fulfillment out, it gives me purpose. And the great thing about Chocos is you literally pick and choose when you want to work, which is exactly what I do. I'm like, I'm not doing that, I'm not turning up for this thing, I'm not interested in that. It's no offense, but I've done enough of that stuff and I'm not interested in doing it anymore. So it's you know, I go and I come to these other things and I you know I'm still banging in the days, man, bang racking them up and making some good coin and they work around you. Yeah, man, it's great. Yep. Yeah, the army's like regular army's like, you will go and do this thing. But the chocolate, they're like, uh, they come into a room full of people and go, um, could we please have somebody volunteer to do this thing, please? Um anybody? And if no one puts their hand up, they're like, okay, cool, and then leave the room and then someone eventually feels like guilty and goes, Ah, I think I can do it. You know? Um whereas I'm like, nah, man, that's it. You know, I either yes or no, I'm not gonna.

SPEAKER_03 4:11:10

Yeah, exactly. Go and get a haircut. Nah, man, I'll see you in a couple of months.

SPEAKER_01 4:11:14

I do shave for it, but maybe that's the reason why I don't turn up that I'll be. It's funny, man, because I just introduce myself as Chris to everybody, so sometimes people are just like, What is who is this guy? Like, what is he? And I refer to people's first names. I'm like, you know, it's just I think I think the army totally differently the way that I used to, and I just think like I can still be professional, that's it, but also be familiar with people working and not be so disciplined, you know what I mean? Like maybe occasionally I'll maybe cross the line a little bit, but nothing, nothing, nothing outrageous.

SPEAKER_03 4:11:40

CO walked in, hey mate.

SPEAKER_01 4:11:41

Yeah, nothing outrageous, you know. Um it's just I guess it comes from a little bit of confidence, you know, with your experience and the timing. I mean, like it just ticked over 20 years the other day or something.

SPEAKER_03 4:11:50

Lucky to still have uh a shooter.

SPEAKER_01 4:11:53

Yeah, yeah. Um and that's another thing too. Like the guys are real good out there and you know, they're they're respect like we respect each other, which is great. Uh like I said, I think they're great options. Some of those guys actually are ex-regs, who've come back to where they live, yeah, and are working out that way, so they're in there and they're good to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:12:05

You know, 10, 15, 20 years' time, it'll be just fucking, you know, ADMs kicking around again. Like it was in the early, you know, late 90s, early 2000s. There are some dudes who just literally're in the battalion and like just going back to that, so they should be doing whatever they take can do to keep fucking shooters and you know, infantry or anyone that's experienced.

SPEAKER_01 4:12:24

I think it's experience. Yeah. I just like to, you know, like I've made mistakes, other people made mistakes, and maybe you can stop people from doing that so that they then don't get, you know, don't have some sort of tragedy. Yeah. You know. Not to say they're not like I know everything, but you know what I mean? Like to educate people on the stuff. Don't you Jesus? Everything I say is gospel, ladies and gentlemen. No, I you know, just like I said, you learnt things either from other people, stories that I've heard. Yeah. So it's a common like that old uncle storyteller gets everyone around the campfire, oh Chris, tell your story. It's about this one guy I know who's like great, who's brushless with death, you know, getting shot and jump stepping on on pressure plates and all sorts of stuff, you know. And again, we we joke about it, but honestly, it's just try and relate the stuff that we're we're when when we're doing this training, relating it to the why and how it actually, you know, it because I didn't get that when I was going through basic training in IETs and stuff like that. It was just like this is how we do it, and that's why we do it, and you just do it because I tell you to do it. You know, and it did have a reason for it, it was just loss of time.

unknown 4:13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:13:19

And that's the same thing that will happen probably, you know, at some point in the future with with this. Is it the same sort of thing as we move into other conflicts potentially in in other environments with against you know different different enemies.

SPEAKER_03 4:13:29

Yeah, Indonesia. Um Indonesia's got mega rings. That's why I want to.

SPEAKER_01 4:13:36

Oh, I I just started eating mega rings again just recently because I took them out field and I was like, oh, I could a couple in the lazy rainy day. Yeah, in the pantry.

SPEAKER_03 4:13:47

Now, my third question just to bring you back down to that normal human level. You're yeah, you're a tough dude. You might be only 70 kilos rat, but you're like a you're like a chihuahua.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:00

Or barking no buttons.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:01

They can shoot.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:02

Well, yeah, yeah, actually I I do still have that as long as it's a precision weapon because it does all the work for you, man. As long as you know you have to pull the trigger.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:10

I'm just the guy that pulls the trigger.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:13

You could literally put a parachute on a monkey and push them out the plane and work it out, you know? Like it does it all for them, mate.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:18

Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:19

It isn't that special. I like I like to, you know, I like to promote the myth, but that's exactly what 3RAR is a bunch of monkeys that jump out of planes. You said it, mate. It's fucking true.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:30

Mate, uh just to bring you back down to that normal level, tell us something uh about you that no one else really knows or you know, some guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:38

I've been waiting for this question. I I like when I listen to you. Fuck you.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:41

You go, I'm a rabbit-o supporter.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:43

Yeah, well, I'm not guilty about that. None of the things I I'm guilty about. No, I um you know what I like to do, I uh I uh I like to dip my bell end in um potato and gravy from KFC. I've done that. Of course you have your daddy bugger. No, no, no, I I I joke. Um but again, I'm not guilty of it. Look, I don't feel guilt for anything that I do. But having said that, there's actually nothing really different from some of your other uh guests. So I uh I I love building Lego and I got a bunch of sets. Yeah, I don't collect or anything, I literally just build pick something, build, I find it very therapeutic, then leave it on the shelf for a couple weeks, break it down, and some of them can be built into different things and at some point in the future they'll just all be in a box. I've still got my uh Lego from when I was a kid, mum kept Mum and Dad kept it. And um so I've got that at home, so when the kids come around they get to play with all that stuff and I get to you know, my my my kids stay in their own individual boxes with the with the um with the instructions and I like you know build it with my nephew and stuff like that because he absolutely loves it. Um I paint uh little figures. Yeah. So you know, that Warhammer, but then also I've like responsible. Warhammer.

SPEAKER_03 4:15:42

Yeah, I guess. You don't go to the shop, do you?

SPEAKER_01 4:15:44

I need to buy things. Honestly Don't lie. We're all friends here. We're all frenzy. And I'd I'd happily admit it, but honestly, I I I I've never done it and I don't think I really have the time to do it. I just enjoy the painting. And then to be honest, I'm that pedantic about it, it takes forever to do stuff that people probably take a fraction of the time to do, like my talking. Um so you know, I enjoy doing that, and I've come across other things. Like I recently got some um Game of Thrones, really good miniatures. Um some of the actual physical characters on the from the show and uh all the books. And uh He-Man just came out, so that's actually got like they look He-Man Skeletor and a whole lot of his.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:14

I don't know if you can say he these days.

SPEAKER_01 4:16:17

Sorry, them man.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:19

It's it's she-man.

SPEAKER_01 4:16:22

I don't know, like yeah, we have covering all bases. Uh for those of you that weren't born in the eighties or you know, Arnold, but He-Man was a classic cartoon from when Matt and I were just, you know, knee height or grasshopper, as they say.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:31

Um Arnold Arnold played it in the real movie, didn't he? Was it Arnold?

SPEAKER_01 4:16:34

No, it was Dolph Longren. Dolph Longren, that's it. Fuck, yeah. So yeah, I did that kind of stuff. I love reading. Um again, like I not really it's not really guilty pleasures, but I do enjoy um bit of a geek. Yeah, yeah. Like so, yeah, funnily enough, when we were overseas, we we're doing a little stuff with some um the American uh surgeons and and nurses and that, and I get some hands on medical training, and we were talking about something, and one of the doctors turns around and goes, Oh, so you're a nerd, Chris, and mate was with me, good mate of mine, he goes, mate, he's not a nerd, he just has nerdish tendencies. And I was like, Yeah, I like that. I can I can live out. I mean, I wasn't I'm you know, like back in school I was just a big dork, right? Yeah, I wasn't I'm not incredibly smart, I'm not incredibly dumb, I'm just you know, I'm just average dude, right? Um I just like I was dork and you know, and and didn't talk to girls and was scared of them because they'll you know they're all you know they're scarier than fighting Taliban. And at least at that point anyway. And still are. Yeah, they are, depending on especially my wife, she gets angry. Um yeah, I you know got yeah, got some nerdish tendencies, you know. Yeah, uh I love reading and I read comic books, so I'm still you know, still collect Captain America and Thor, Iron Man, uh, The Hulk, Punisher, you know, Daredevil, that kind of thing. Um yeah, the Punisher is he's a cool character. That's how I leverage it out when I go and like pick up a character maybe that's less cool. You know, I was like I've also got the Punisher there, just so you know I'm uh kind of tough. Uh but yeah, I've been collecting comic books since I was like twelve ten or something like that, I think. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. So yeah, I have some nerdish tendencies, which I'm you know, not scared to to talk about. Yeah. Um yeah, I I enjoy some good pastime and you know, I have other things I like doing that are manly, like you know, growing a beard and drinking whiskey and smoking cigars. Yeah. So you know, I'm building a fire and I go chop firewood around my house because I just live in a national park. And you know, so you know, I'm ruggishly, you know, um nerdy. Well, I I g I I guess, you know. Found myself at one point like walking like Arnie from Commando with a log over my shoulder and the and the um the chainsaw because live up behind the mountains like he does in commando. And we'd made some jokes with one of the other boys, um the Chocos about how like just go back and hang out with Jenny in the mountains, and then I found myself literally like carrying a log over my shoulder and I just kind of laughed to myself and I was just like it's a man. I've made it, you know, like I'm I'm tough, you know, like I'm I'm walking around the national park, I'm like a lumberjack, you know, looking cool and tough and everything with a you know with the firewood and all that kind of stuff and providing for my family. Um but yeah, I wouldn't say that I'm like guilty of them, but they're they're my guilty pleasures. Yeah, so anyone out there that does these sorts of things, don't be scared.

SPEAKER_03 4:19:02

Yeah, that's it. Reach out to Chris and he'll fucking play some Warhammer with you.

SPEAKER_01 4:19:06

Yeah, you'll have to tell me how to play. And I actually think there's a 460 power. I'm a level 72 paladin with a yeah, I'll be honest with you, I have no idea how to play it other than the idea like sort of general, I guess, you know, this moves can you know, yeah. But uh I've never played in my life. To be honest with you, I just think it's the time. At one point I actually thought I could make a living out of it. So I was like, if I just keep painting for like 10 years, eventually I could just like work in one of those shops, right? And I'll be that dude where they pay me to like try and sell people stuff, which I can do, not it, not my favourite thing to do, and I'll be able to paint all day. Like that was my 10, 15 years ago. That was like, that's my grand scheme, a plan. I haven't painted as much as I should have in that time, so my skills aren't as good as I'd like them to be. But yeah, you go into those shops to buy you know supplies and the dudes are in there painting away, and they you know, they're a little bit too friendly for my liking, you know, like a little bit too sort of clingy and want to have conversations, and I'm kind of like, eh dad, I'm just here to buy some stuff. I don't want to tell you my life story, despite the fact that I you know do it every chance I get here. Um just dragging it on the city. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We've got to go. I apologize.

SPEAKER_03 4:20:02

Just give them the link to the podcast. Yeah, yeah. Spare four hours?

SPEAKER_01 4:20:06

Yeah, if you've got to spare like six hours, mate, here you go. You know, you'll know all about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:20:09

Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 4:20:11

No, good times, mate. I've got I've got too many, too many hobbies and not enough time. Yeah. Honestly. I've got to like cut some away, but I just enjoy doing them all. So you know, watching movies and that kind of stuff, hanging up for the bloke and you know, family and stuff like that. That's awesome, mate. Yeah, it's good times. I like you do.

SPEAKER_03 4:20:25

Mate, uh again, really appreciate your four and a half hours. Yeah, I'm sorry, mate. I know we didn't plan on going that long. No, that's all right, mate. Family's probably wondering where I am, probably disappeared. Yeah, you've got to drive back dungeon of yours. Grandparents, that's right, no. Hanging outside schools, are they? What's that? Hanging outside school waiting for stairs in the sweatshop making shirts.

SPEAKER_01 4:20:47

Zero Limits podcast general, uh, ladies and gentlemen, shirts. That's where the shirts come from.

SPEAKER_03 4:20:52

They are Asian uh uh the descendants of Asians, so that's fucking what they have to do. Child labour.

SPEAKER_01 4:20:58

It's not a bad way to get them in a good work ethic and teach them some you know discipline and some self-worth and value of money. You know, it's it's not a bad thing. We I I I got a sorry, we won't get into it. I got a job as a paper boy when I was young and I think you know, like it was it wasn't hard work, but you know, it gives you a sense of self-worth. You know, earn a little bit of money and you know, where you're gonna pay spend for it and a value of it, because it's like, oh, this doesn't go as far as I you know as as you want it to, and uh alright, this is how mum and dad have to try and you know manage how things get and what you can and can't do and that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's a good thing, mate. You know, don't tell the authorities at the sweatshop.

SPEAKER_03 4:21:32

If uh people want to get in contact with you, how can they find you?

SPEAKER_01 4:21:35

Well if they haven't had enough of my of me, um on Instagram's probably yeah. I I I'm not I'm not much of a social media what's your name on Instagram Christopher.corf is kept it real simple. Um so if you want to send me a message or tell me, you know, troll me or whatever, sure, by all means go right ahead. Yeah, I probably won't see it for several weeks, but um yeah. If I see if I get anything, I'll answer it. I like to be polite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Positive or otherwise. Positive, yeah. I mean, as in positive feedback from people or otherwise, I will I will respond to it in a positive positive in a in a positive response. Um Taliban would be reading. Don't expect too much. I think I've got like four posts on Instagram and they're all pretty boring. My wife's my publicist. Yeah. She tags me in everything, and that's how everyone knows where I'm and what I'm doing. That's how like, you know, the Chinese are keeping up with my movements and that kind of thing. I don't have TikTok or any of that kind of stuff or that sort of stuff. It's just, you know, I have it kind of keep in con it's good to keep in contact with people.

SPEAKER_03 4:22:27

Yeah, actually, I was just reading somewhere in the US that one state's banned TikTok. A state has just banned it.

SPEAKER_01 4:22:33

Yeah, it's crazy how that works over there. They can make rules like that.

SPEAKER_03 4:22:35

It's it's an inch, it's an interesting country. Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 4:22:37

Um, but yeah, I mean, I like I have no, like I'm just too lazy. It's purely laziness. Yeah. You know, I occasionally take a picture and think, oh, that'd be cool to post, and then I don't. Yeah. And then the the moment's gone and I forget about it, and then I see it like years later, I'm like, oh, that's right. I was gonna post that. I'll post that now. You know, uh it's good to keep in touch with people, and I and that uh 10-year digger and some other um um you know meme uh uh ADF meme pages are great. I I sit there and laugh all day. I don't like anything because I don't want to be incriminated in anything, but I just you know have a good old laugh. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, if you want to get in contact with me, by all means go right ahead, otherwise, yeah. I won't be upset if you don't.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:12

Mate, again, thank you for uh giving me your time and we'll have to catch out for Stogie and some Scotch. Absolutely, man. Thank you for giving me your time. I apologise if it's a lot longer than you expected. All right, mate.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:25

I might have to edit some of this out.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:27

Uh probably about three hours.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:29

Yeah, at least. You could at least do that.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:30

It's probably about one hour r relevant.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:32

Yeah, to zero limits and how you can improve yourself. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:36

Yeah. No, mate, it's it's been fucking a pleasure, mate. And uh we'll definitely have to stay in contact as we have been, and yeah, absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:45

Got a family live up here in Newcastle and mates and mutual mates and that kind of thing. So, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:49

Yep, yep. Appreciate your time. Oh, too easy. Thanks, dude. Thanks, bro. Wait, wait, wait. Don't go anywhere. Just quickly, throughout this potty, I was getting my fix of something long and black. Get your mind out of the gutter. It was just a long and black coffee. So if you want to get into this coffee, head to the police veteran operator 30s coffee on Instagram or head to the website 30s as in number three with uh the word zeros.com.au for some coffee. Not to mention a portion of their profits uh goes back to supporting uh first responders and uh veterans of those worlds. So use the code 3Z Limits at the checkout for a discount. Uh you can check that link out and code in the bio. Uh see you later.