Ep. 245 Daniel O’Neil Australian Army, Private Security Contractor, South Australian Ambulance Service

SPEAKER_00 1:16

It's time for the Zero Limit Podcast, hosted by an Australian veteran. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world. We'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the game to complete any goal you set your money to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Zero Limits listeners on today's Zero Limits podcast, joined in the Newcastle studio by a 10-year veteran of the Australian Defence Force in the regular army. Another five years as a Chaco reservist, uh part-time army. Reserve Army? Well, reserve army, that's the one. I guess he was a bit uh during this time, all these wars kicked off, Iraq, Afghan. Thought he might just uh discharge, give the contracting world a crack, as a lot of uh serving soldiers did, they discharged and gave the contracting a crack. So he went over there for three years, uh bits and pieces here in Afghanistan. So we'll definitely talk about that. Uh the general theme of most infantry guys or most army guys, gals and guys, is you're pretty, I guess, confused on what you want to do for the rest of your life. And you you jump in, you jump out, you do this, you do that, you try that, you try this, and you just can't figure it out. However, for this guy in 2010 decided to get into the paramedical scene uh in which he was living in South Australia at this time, Adelaide, and spent eleven years as an Ambo in South Australia. Now, he's also written a book. It's called All the Dumb Things. You may have seen it on Instagram, on the socials. Talks about his life as a soldier, fed contractor and Ambo. Uh Daniel O'Neill, mate, welcome. How are you? Thanks, mate.

SPEAKER_06 3:18

Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

No, I appreciate it, mate. Yeah, like like I said, you know, we just we just went and had breakfast and I was speaking saying that I've been chasing an Ambo for so long. And I've reached out to a few, Queensland and New South Wales, a lot of them have been current guys as well. Even a couple of former ones that just the current ones wanted to come on, the former ones didn't. I'm like, but the the current ones that wanted to come on weren't allowed to due to their social media policy, I don't trade secrets, I don't know, they don't want to give away their voodoo medic stuff. But and then obviously yours popped up, your book popped up and obviously got my attention. We started talking, and you know, first thing you did was like, oh I don't know if I'm suited for the podcast. I'm like, mate, you've got a book, so there's definitely a story there. And obviously, now we've just had breakfast and you've given me a couple of you know background stories and they're epic. Like it's just and I think again, like we spoke about before, I've got a couple of mates in the uh Ambos here in Usa Well, especially up here in Newcastle that I served in three area with, and but the stories that they give me, I'm just like, it's not real. This must be another planet, and I'm sure you can expand on that.

SPEAKER_06 4:32

I think sometimes it does feel like it's you know an ulterior universe because you know, before I joined the ambulance service, I thought I was pretty worldly. I'd you know been in the army and been around and been overseas and done a bunch of stuff. And even I was shocked by my first, you know, my first ride along where I'm seeing all these different things. Like I'm like, wow, I didn't even know these, let alone these little areas of my own city existed, these pockets of you know, suburbs and stuff. I didn't know they existed, and I didn't know that people live like this. And you see every every aspect of society from you know the lowest of the low to the top of the top, um, and everything in between, and you know, most of it is new, yeah. Some of it blows your mind, you know.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Yeah, yeah, exactly right. And sorry, I don't know if I said the all the dumb things, that's what the book is called. So definitely uh jump on Instagram, check that out, and uh grab a copy. I haven't read it yet, but I will uh now since he has given me a copy and he's gonna have to sign it too. Can do that. Then I can sell him on eBay after I read it. Two bucks. Uh as I said, with the Ambo life, it's it's something I haven't really touched on on this podcast. I don't think I've had any paramedics on, and sorry if I have, but I don't think I have. And it's gonna be really good just to touch on that whole Ambo side because like again, like we spoke offline. I've had uh plenty of police officers that have been on the podcast, and you know, they've spoken about times where they've rocked up to a scene, someone's dying, and they've had to, you know, apply first aid to the to the best of their knowledge, which is absolutely nothing compared to obviously an Ambo. 99% of the time the person's passed away, and it's always stuck with them because it's you know such a uh an exposing event where yourself we we spoke about this. There's been I mean a hundred plus times where someone has died in your hand or in your care type thing.

SPEAKER_06 6:29

Yeah, can't you?

SPEAKER_03 6:33

It's mind-blowing. Like it's mind-blowing. And it's got to be a you know, obviously a kick in the balls every single time.

SPEAKER_06 6:39

Yeah, it's like anything, isn't it, that we do in any of our careers, uh, you know, where it's the army or contracting or or first responding, an element of every job, every second, every minute stays with you, even subconsciously that you're not aware of. And over time it just builds up. Um I don't think anyone gets away clean. I don't think anyone goes into any of those roles and comes out without any or some form of attachment.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Especially when kids are involved. Most definitely. That's gotta be, which we'll definitely talk about when again, I know we keep I keep referring to our chat before, but it was just like I was just like, wow, like that's someone's had to do this or deal with this and deal with the aftermath. Like it's just crazy. But before we crack on, mate, let's get back to the younger days growing up. Young Daniel mate, how was he?

SPEAKER_06 7:25

Uh yeah, young Daniel, uh so born in Brisbane um in the 70s, had a very transient uh upbringing. My my dad was like a thruster, you know, like a ladder climber. So he worked for the Commonwealth Bank. We moved every 18 months or so all around the country.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Um with your Dollar Mind account?

SPEAKER_06 7:43

Yeah, yeah, and the little piggy bank. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

For the younger listeners out there, there was uh it was actually a really good thing, I think.

SPEAKER_06 7:51

I did have a dollar mine account, yeah. Um yeah, so I reckon I went to about seven schools in the 12 years, well, 12 years of schooling. Um, and so we went to school in Queensland, Tasmania, South Australia. Um and I think if anyone described me back then as probably similar to a lot of army people, we'll we all seem to have similar traits. It would have been Daniel's easily misled, Daniel's easily distracted, um, would have been my school reports. I wasn't a bad kid, not at all. Like I wasn't in in too much trouble. I just Just a young boy. Yeah, and I was never really grabbed by learning. It never never really appealed to me until I was later in life. Can you see that with your son now? Yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 8:35

Yeah, yeah. He doesn't yeah, doesn't fall too far from the tree. Yeah, apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Yeah, he he's bored by learning. Yeah, he'd just rather kick a ball and have fun.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

That's the boy what boys do, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah. Play army in the backyard, not navy or air force.

SPEAKER_06 8:50

He does dress up in my old cams and you know runs around with his mates and yeah, yeah, right. Might join the military. He might too.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah, right. So, yeah, obviously, you've uh gone through schooling, not the best. Uh family history.

SPEAKER_06 9:03

You got any family history within defense or yeah, quite a big family history actually, and that was a big driver um for joining up. So uh my dad was too young for Vietnam, so his sort of generation kind of missed it. But a few of his mates were in Vietnam and they were, you know, sort of mates that hang around the family and stuff. So had interaction with them from a young age. One of them was a um what do you call it, like an FO party in 4R in Vienna. So, you know, grew up with a lot of his stories and stuff. But then going beyond him, my grandfather um he got a what was your warden mentioned in dispatches in the Air Force. So he's in bomber command, so he was on the on the bombers, or did two full tours over Europe, aircraft over Europe. Was involved in, he wrote a book actually. Um he was involved in all the big um, you know, Dresden, Brenton, like all the big bombing runs over over Germany. Um, did that for a number of years, then went to the Pacific, um, finished the war uh in in the Pacific Theatre um against the Japanese. So I grew up with a lot of his stories as well. He had a lot of memorabilia, had all these, you know, like the uh the puff links and the buttons from their uniform, which had escape compasses inside. He had all these silk maps that used to be stitched into their um flight suits and stuff, and I've still got some of their stuff at home. Um, like flying, you know, his leather flying helmet, he's uh he used to nick stuff as well, he had like you know, the old gun side off the 50 cal from his um bit of range produce, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so true. And you know, he's even like um he was in a uh a couple of plane crashes that he survived, but one of them is like nicked the mission clock off the you know the dashboard and all that. I got all this stuff. Have yeah? Yeah, it's pretty cool. So I grew up with all like playing with all these little things, and I was, you know, I thought this was brilliant, you know. And then even before him, so my both my great-grandfathers were in the first world war on the Western Front. Um, one was killed, uh, he was taken prisoner by the Germans, um, found in no man's land, uh, had his leg amputated, died in captivity. Uh, and the other one, he won the military medal twice, uh survived the whole war, yeah, both grunts. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

So there was a bit of a extensive yeah, yeah, right. And as I said, your your old man's working within the banking structure, so he's getting shipped around everywhere. Yeah. Obviously, busy time for banks uh back then, establishing who they are, what you know, how they rip people off now. But um How did you end up in Adelaide? Is that for that reason?

SPEAKER_06 11:21

Yeah, it was just just through the movie. Dad was um he was he was like a ruthless competitor, um, really unassuming dude, small framed, um, thick coke bottle glasses. Oh yeah, yeah, massively, massively nerdy looking, and everyone just you know wrote him off. You know, he's not you know, nothing imposing, anything like that, but he was a really ruthless competitor. He was the Australian champion for in cycling, uh, won the silver medal in the Commonwealth Games in 74, um, briefly held the Commonwealth record, uh, you know, a bunch of other you know, medals and states and state and national champs and stuff. So he knew how to win, but he was really unassuming. So people just you know wrote him off, but then he would just come in and smash it, yeah. Basically, so he would the bank loved him because they would send you to branches that were underperforming and um just flip them. Yeah, he would just go in and foreclose on people and just you know, and you know, we were talking about death threats and things like that. He used to receive lots of that as uh you know when I was a kid and stuff like that because he wrecked people's lives essentially financially. Um sounds like a banker, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um so yeah, he we ended up in South Australia in the end because he went from like the lowest um he worked in the mail room as a teenager. That was his first job in the bank, ended up becoming a state manager.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

So where what year did you move down to Adelaide? Uh 90 four, maybe. So you're switching between schools.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

Yeah, you're just doing and sorry, brothers and sisters, you got any So I've got a younger sister, she's about five years younger than me, roughly.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Yeah, so you two are just switching schools and new friends every every couple of years, which obviously is quite hard for a especially a young boy.

SPEAKER_06 12:55

Yeah, it definitely is. Uh it definitely was. Um, but you learn a lot, you know. You'll you learn how to blend in in a crowd. You learn I learned all about being the grey man before I even knew what I was in the army. Um, so it just set me up really well for a military career. You learn resilience as well because you do cop a lot of flack and you've got to stand up for yourself. Um and but one probably a negative I learned was oh, this lend, you know what I mean? So there's that you can push through adversity and it'll be over soon, you know. So um, and I also probably you know you can run away from your problems, so you can just I don't have to deal with that because in 12 months I'll be out of here and who cares, you know. So that was probably a you know a negative to learn.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Any any of these places in Australia that you loved the best?

SPEAKER_06 13:36

Uh I love Tassie. Tassie's oh mate, such a great thing. It is a nice place, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

I do love it down there.

SPEAKER_06 13:41

Just such a great place for a young adventurer to grow up. Um, you know, all the things that are too now we used to just do as kids. We were there pre-Port Arthur, so everyone had guns. Um, and even his kids, you know, you would go in and buy an air rifle over the counter, kids would just go fishing, shooting. Uh all our mates had either them or their you know their parents, grandparents had farms, so we're off on you know, three roll hondas, which are you know banned now because they're too much fun. Um, we you we would just go and you just do all those things like shooting, fishing, yeah, um, motorbike riding. The boys do and love, and we're able to do it.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

So thanks, Martin Brighton, you asshole. Yeah, so obviously you end up in Adelaide, you're still doing the arrest you school out there. When does like the obviously you spoke about your family history within defense and they kind of gave you that that that motivation to join? When did you go, right, I'm fucking doing this?

SPEAKER_06 14:34

Probably as young as about 11. Oh shit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I joined Cadets when I was 13. Um, and I was probably that weird army cadet kid, you know, that you'd love to dress up and go and do all army stuff. Um, so what happened was my best mate at the time, his older brother, joined Cadets, and so we were 11, he was 13. And I'm like, I'd never even heard of it. I was like, this is like army for kids, this is brilliant, you know, sign me up. So I went in there and they're like, oh, you're too young, you can't you can't be part of it. So I came back in 12 months and it was 12. No, you're too young, you can't join up. So I just went back every year. Went back at 13, joined up, and just I don't know, just took to it and really enjoyed it. And it was probably the only thing out of like activities, sports, and that that I carried through for the all the moves, it was the only consistent thing. Um, so I think I knew, you know, even if I didn't really know myself, everyone around me knew like parents and that.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Yeah, this is what it was. Yeah, and pretty much back then, too, you look at the cadets, they were pretty much child soldiers. We were making it because they were doing pretty much everything the regular army was doing, just obviously at a at a child level.

SPEAKER_06 15:31

Yeah, we were playing with SLRs and shooting blanks on you know during the week and all these things, like you know, just it's great.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Just living the life. It would be interesting to see then I know a lot I I've grown up with a lot of uh cadets, you know, uh, with mates, kids joining the cadets, etc. Um, obviously I've got girls, so it's probably never gonna happen. But uh I'd like to see the numbers of cadets because there has been a few guys, guests, that have had on the podcast that have been cadets and obviously joined SASR or commandos or infantry or whatever. I'd like to see the numbers. Yeah, bitch. If it if it uh correlates with which I'm sure it does. Um you must you you you kind of live that stream as a young cadet feeling that army life, and then you're like, fuck it, I'll go go regs, which is obviously exactly what you do at 17.

SPEAKER_06 16:15

Yeah, so 17, so I initially went to Chocks first. Oh, did you? Um yeah, so what happened was um I finished school at 16 and then too young to do much of anything really, um, and I wanted to join the army and dad and I basically struck a deal because he wanted me to get a qualification. He was never against the army, not at all, but he wanted me to get a quote first. So he said, Oh, we'll join the reserves, go do a traineeship, and then when you're 18, you can do whatever the hell you like. So that's basically what I did. So I joined up as a uh Choco engineer, comment engineer, for 12 months and did a traineeship with the state government as a clerk and hated it. Hated hated my life every second of every day. Um, and so the second I could get out of there, I did and went to the regs.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Yeah, which is you know, a second is about a year. So you finished that training ship and then you're like bugger it. I've said I've done what you my dad told me to do. Now I'm gonna go join the regs. What was your thoughts? Obviously, you've gone in as a chock as an engineer. Were you always thinking infantry?

SPEAKER_06 17:12

No, infantry, I I was probably like by that time, by that age, I was probably you know a bit pudgy and not all that fit. Um, so I loved the idea of infantry, but I thought, oh that's probably probably beyond my fitness level. So and I was really happy with engineers, really enjoyed it. Um so that was kind of the pathway I was wanted to go on. And you know, everyone's everyone gets stitched up via recruiting at some point. So the recruiting officer was like, you know, we're originally the army's full, you know, we can't get in, and it took about 12 months to get in. And like, you know, we're lining up your recruit course so you can because back then you didn't sign up as a job, you signed up as an ECN 500, so a recruit and you could go anywhere. And we're lining up your you know, your recruit course so you line up to an engineer IET course, you're gonna be an engineer, you know, good for you kind of thing. And uh, you know, there didn't there was no engineer spots, it didn't work out like that at all. So infantry was the best of the you know the options.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Yeah, so did you have to go back to Kapuka?

SPEAKER_06 18:05

Yeah, so I went through the whole Kapuka, yeah, 12 weeks.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Yeah, so you go to Kapuka. How was that? This is uh 97-ish. Yeah, 97 again. Political correctness is it's it's definitely not there.

SPEAKER_06 18:16

Nah, not like it is now. Nah.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

There's only there's only two toilets, male and female. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:22

Yep. We did we did have um I don't know if I was one of the first platoons to have girls or not, but we did have a couple in the platoon, um, and they were great, but yeah, there was only two toilets.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Different times, different times. How'd you find Kapuga? Because again, you've already lived the chalk life, so I guess you kind of got the the fundamentals of soldiering down.

SPEAKER_06 18:42

Yeah, and and more more than just the soldiering stuff, it was it's uh uh you know that mindset, that attitude, isn't it? Like yeah, so I'd played the grey man as a school kid. Um so I didn't knew just keep your mouth shut. It doesn't matter if they say the sky's pink, then I can pretend it's pink, don't care, you know. So um I had a good time and I found it all pretty comfortable and kind of breezed through. Singo was different, like a lot harder, but um Kapuka was great, loved it.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Isn't it polarizing when you get to Kapuka place like that when like you speak about having a grey man, there's grey man, there's this overt human beings that are just loud. Yeah, you got the introverts that are just in the background, and there's always that one person that's the shit magnet that takes away the shine from ev absolutely everyone. Yeah, yeah, like the heat seeker. It's just like a a conjection of just every type of character possible.

SPEAKER_06 19:32

Yeah, yeah, and age age range too, you know. Yeah, so back then the age range was capped, you couldn't join if you're over 35. So we're all sort of you know 17 to 35 and varied, you know, right across that spectrum. Um, so I was 18 by the time I went to Kapuka. Um I reckon I reckon it was easier as a young bloke than I than an older bloke. Oh surely, yeah, I reckon fitness-wise as well, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, and also just like no other priorities in life, you know. I've never seen anything else or no anything else.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

I've got no kids, no phone bill, no loans, no nothing. Yeah, whereas the older, yeah. It's funny. Uh in 2003, I went when I went through uh Capuca, I had a there was a 45-year-old and I thought, fuck, he's a granddad. Yeah, I'm 42 now. I'm like, oh shit, maybe it's not that old. But he was a beast. Was it? But you know what I mean? 45, imagine going through 45 of that age. But as you said, he's lived a life and he's got loans, he's probably got a house loan and family and kids, whereas a young 18, 17, 19-year-old. Yeah, nothing. Just want to get on the booze and chase tail, exactly 100% and shoot guns. Yeah, that's the life. Uh, and how'd you find the whole Kapuka? Like, like we spoke about you you've had that concept already. Did you struggle with anything within Kapuka?

SPEAKER_06 20:42

No, no. Uh I don't think no, I I did have one big stuff up, but it wasn't I don't think it was related to struggling. It was more, you know, about six-ish weeks. So I did we did 12 weeks, but about six-ish weeks, you start to get a little bit of leave, and they give you like, you know, you start with like maybe two hours in in town in Walgar or three hours or whatever. So we got I reckon it was about three hours one night and we were allowed to go and drink. And being young, and you know, I've just thrown everything down my neck, everything possible in you know, in the shortest amount of time, and never once considered that it would have an effect on me. And then as we're coming back, we're in the taxi, and you just start the world just starts to spin a bit. Oh, I'm not in a good place here. And I've put the window down and I've just vomited everywhere. And you've got to go back to the lines, you know, from there. Um, so I don't, you know, memories are sketchy of it, but yeah, I've vomited again in the lines, and um I end up the way it all came about is I woke up in the middle of the night, because you know how you do your you know, your hallway one, you know, your sheet over your shoulder, all that sort of stuff. I've woken up completely butt-naked, nothing on at all, no sheets on my bed, nothing. Yeah, and it's like you know, in the middle of the morning, I'm like, what the fuck? You know, my bed space partner's like, all right, mate, you know, we've got this, you're you're all sweet. And he's you know, and he started telling me what'd happen, and I'd vomited ever all over myself. The boys had like put everything through the washer and you know, really like helped me out, sorted me out. But I had to do the Harry Holton butt naked down to the laundry, you know, grab all my gear, remake my bed and set everything up, and then I was you know back in in time in the morning. That was probably the only like stuff, close stuff up.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yeah, right. Other than that, it was pretty But you get to be tan, that's normal.

SPEAKER_06 22:18

Yeah, that's that's every day.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

That's every day. Some dudes you look over the back and you're like, what's he doing? Why is he naked? Oh, probably big night on the booze. Yeah, he'd be right. Just put an umbrella over him. Done that. We had a dude now. I can't remember who it was, but he fell asleep outside and he was naked, just like kind of just under the lines there, and it was just like half sun, half, and someone just got the battle broly out, just put the battle broly over his parts and kept him until he woke up. Uh classic. Anyway, uh, so that was obviously Yeah, that that's that's the life, I guess. You're so young and just on the booze and blah blah blah. From there, as you said, at that stage, you didn't weren't sure where you're gonna go as as in a call. So you I'm sure you get to those last couple of weeks and Then they obviously give you core allocations.

SPEAKER_06 23:05

Yeah, exactly that. Yeah. So they um they did this big beat up beforehand. They're like, Oh, you know, uh, you guys are so lucky, we've got all these great positions coming up, and and you're young and you believe it. And they're like so they announce them and they make a big show of it, and they're like driver, cook, dental technician, and then what was the other one? It was something random. It was like a recovery mechanic, like tow truck driver and rifleman. I'm like, I'm not gonna do any of those other jobs, you know. So ended up in infantry.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Infantry, yeah. Isn't it funny how they call it recovery mechanic to make it sound like it's like yeah, this is something really special. Yeah, it's like you're just a tow truck job, mate. Relax. Shout out to the mechanics out there. Uh yeah, right. So obviously you get infantry from there, move to Singleton. Again, this is now specific. Uh employment uh training uh in regards to infantry training. How'd you find that old process? 10 weeks, 10 plus weeks at uh Singho? Yeah, 12, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:01

I recommend it was around about 12, maybe even 13 or something, because there's a duties week. And but um yeah, I I it was good, I enjoyed it, um, but it was hard, much, much harder than Kapuka. And for me, I was always a good, good cardio uh guy, and especially after Kapuka, I could run, I could pack march, no problem. But my body strength was lacking. So things like heaves and and ropes and stuff used to kill me and singers, a lot of that stuff. Um I didn't even know what a heave beam was like I've heard of pull-ups, obviously, you know, yeah, um, but I didn't then I didn't even know what a heave beam was, and so yeah, that was a struggle. So um, but yeah, overall, you know, got through first go, never, never went to the RFP, never fell out of anything, you know, got my first choice of battalion, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Got through, yeah, but it was a slog.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

We'll get to that. Obviously, the selection of battalion, you know, we talk about infantry uh singleton, it's just you know, it's like-minded 19-year-olds all in one place. Yeah, again, booze, chasing tail, and shooting guns. That's that's an infantryman uh to the T. Obviously, get your selections for uh battanes. Do you have any idea on what battalion you wanted to go to?

SPEAKER_06 25:08

No, not battalion so much, but I wanted to go to Townsville because that was where the RDF was, so the rapid deployment force. Uh, and I just wanted to go overseas, that's all I wanted to do was serve on operations. Uh so I knew that Townsville would be the quickest place to do that. Um, so it didn't matter to me whether it was one or two, but some people were like dead set. I'm going to one R. You know, everyone get out of the way, I'm going to one R kind of thing. And I didn't really mind too much. And so I just put down two R as my first preference. I thought, well, if everyone wants to go to one, I'll go to two. And then I got got what I wanted.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Yeah. How many blokes uh get that as well? Um couple.

SPEAKER_06 25:42

Yeah, a few. The whole platoon was split one, two, three. Um, and we had one guy who went to five seven. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Rams down pants. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. But obviously, like he as you said this though, it was back then it was those northern batanes that always it was just the rumour that was going around. If you went to five, seven uh or one and two, you're pretty much guaranteed a trip.

SPEAKER_06 26:05

Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, and all the um all the DS like the instructors were all X102, except for mine who was from Six Ara. Um and he was probably the most like warry of all of them, but you know, all the the one and two R guys are all you know from Rwanda or Somalia that all had recent operational experience. And yeah, you just you just hear their stories, you're like, you know, that's what I want to be part of.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yeah, and the you know, again, you look at the timing that you're in the defence force when you join up, nothing's going on. Like you said, it's Rwanda, uh Somalia, uh maybe a bit of Kosovo here and there, but that's it. Since Vietnam, there was nothing before that, so it's quite a very peacetime uh military, obviously. Once you get in, then it just kicks off the world, the world wars kick off pretty much. You get up to Townshall, two RM8, get into obviously the swing of things. How do you find that reception into the into the unit itself? Quite daunting.

SPEAKER_06 27:01

Yeah, it was it was daunting and it was different because we were the very last 12-week platoon through single. Um so the six weekers started uh at at the same time. So basically halfway through our platoon, the first six-week platoon started. We graduated together or marched out together. So people were ready for you know, you fucking soft six six weekers, you know, they were like ready to get us. So everyone was like, Are you fucking six weekers, you know, ready to start swinging at you? No, mate, no, no. We're you know, we did 12 weeks and they're like, All right, you know, suddenly suddenly we're okay, you know. Um, but yeah, it was different.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

It's oh, because they were doing that six week and then you do the rest of your uh IETs it at the unit.

SPEAKER_06 27:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For I don't know what the reason was, but yeah, they just cut it cut it in half.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

I think it was because of the single was just at capacity, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, and I was like that for a few years, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Uh obviously getting to the unit can be quite daunting, uh, especially as a young lid, no deployments, no nothing, fresh face, clean uniforms and slouch hat is just wrong. Just everything.

SPEAKER_06 28:07

You can try and blend in as much as but you stand out, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

You just yeah, like dogs. Crisp uniforms, everything. But uh from there, obviously you move, you know, you spend uh your first deployment to East T-Mor the following year. Is it the following year? No, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:23

Sorry, 99. 99, yeah, with InterFed, yeah. Before that we had um, I don't know if you ever heard of Opp Brandcard. It was like a it didn't it kind of partly got off the ground and then then flopped. So um you knew obviously you do 12 months as the online battalion and all that. And so we were on online battalion through 98, uh till the end of 98. Uh and they had Opp Brandcard, which was like a service-protected evacuation from Jakarta. They had the riots. Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so the whole island of Java blew up with riding and that sort of stuff. And so we were, you know, recalled to barracks and went through all the all the pre-diploma training and the scenario training, language training, all that sort of stuff. And they Ford deployed not my I was Charlie Company. Um, they forward deployed Delta Company or Elements of Delta Company to Darwin, and then I think Adji's ended up getting the trip in the end and it all fell over. But RAFSAS. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Of course it fell over when they got there. Yeah, right. So then as you said, the following year, this when you get your first deployment in a fed to uh East Team Ormane. This is and how like how's this? Ramping up for your first deployment overseas, you're only still what 19, 20 years old, still young, still young, and out of all this, how's your family gone? Your your parents, are they supportive of their infantry infantry lifestyle?

SPEAKER_06 29:38

Yeah, very supportive. I think they'll, you know, both I'd always had great relationship with my parents. Um, you know, I think they were proud of me and that sort of thing. Yeah. Um and you know, my sister as well. She was still at school um by that point. I think she might have been I reckon she was a year twelve when I when I went to Timor's. So that would have been hard for her. Yeah. Um but yeah, no, they were all they're all supportive and and it was what I wanted to do, you know. It's from the time that I joined going on operations was you know, that was seen as a pinnacle. And as you said, there wasn't bugger or else going on. So when T More kicked off, it was That's the start.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

It's the start of the defence force again. Yeah. So Timor kicks off, mate. You're on the prey ground, getting DP1 checks, getting all your issues, live ammo, live everything. Yep, you're tooling up, ready to jump on a Herc and head to T-Mor, mate. How's that feeling?

SPEAKER_06 30:22

Um, yeah, amazing, really. Because you know, it's um there's some trepidation, obviously, which is um you know understandable, but at the end it's it's mostly just elation, you know, like let's get into it. Let's do it, yeah. Yeah, this is what we've been training for, this is what we what we're here for. Um, so we've we've forward deployed, so my company uh I was what they call it Echo Company, which was I was in support company by then. Um Mortar Patoon. Yeah, Mortar Patoon, yeah, yeah, maggots, yeah. So mortars, pioneers, and recon formed another rifle company basically, and we just sort of chopped and changed from our primary roles as needed. Um so we were echo company, so we're down the list of the you know, the priority for the sorties in it, because there's only so many, you know. I think at that point the RAF might had one, maybe two, you know, functional hercs or something. So, you know, the yeah, so it took a while to get us all in there. So um we four deployed the Darwin where we um just basically just sat on a parade ground sitting on your packs, like as you would have done in three stacks and sacks. Just waiting, just waiting, waiting for the chance.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Four o'clock in the morning, oh fuck, we're not going. And they're like, get in the trucks, we're going.

unknown 31:25

Fuck.

SPEAKER_06 31:25

Exactly like that. So we just sat there waiting and waiting, and it was all you know, it was because it was all meant to be secretive, right? Yeah, but we're in Robo barracks, and there's you know, there's people everywhere, and it was fine while it was dark because you know we're all set up in the dark and no one was really around. But the next day everyone's at work and everyone's riding their bikes past, and what's going on over there, you know? So yeah, it was cat out of the bag pretty quick.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah, yeah. Uh you get into Timor, mate the first again, landing into Timor, different sights, different sounds. I'm sure this is your first time overseas as well.

SPEAKER_06 31:55

Uh I reckon I'd been on a boys trip to Thailand and a few places like that before. So something similar. Yes, same smells. Money on the money drains.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Yeah. Uh landing into Timor made, how was it? And what what was the role? Obviously, Timor's just gone into disarray.

SPEAKER_06 32:11

Yeah. So uh Echo Company at that point, we were split. We were going with Charlie Company to the port. And so the um Torre was, you know, the first conventional unit behind SAS to go in there and secure the airfield. So our first task was to secure the airfield and then shoot off to a few different company tasks, like the port and the consulate, and there was a whole bunch of stuff. Um so initially we were at the at the airfield, but then we got we got detached from the Charlie Company role and we got sent with the alpha company to a place called Baokao, which was right way on the east. And what happened there was someone, I guess someone decided that the Comoro Airport wasn't this strip wasn't heavy or strong enough to handle the aircraft. So they needed a military-grade airstrip for the Galaxies. And so yeah, they sent us out there on a um the first company-sized air mobile operation since Vietnam. Oh shit. Um sent out there on that one.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

So yeah, and how long did you spend in Timor?

SPEAKER_06 33:05

About four, that first trip was about four months, I think.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

And majority of that time was just patrolling and retrans security.

SPEAKER_06 33:12

Oh no, I mean so retrans didn't exist then. Um nothing existed, you know. I suppose yeah. Nothing that because I went back later, nothing that was on my second trip was really there on the first trip.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

There was no no procedures, just a blank canvas, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:27

And it was that's what made it so good.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

So just predominantly patrolling?

SPEAKER_06 33:31

Uh everything OP, a lot of OPs. Because Recon was in our company, we mostly got used to like R S and I. Um, so doing OPs all the time, OPs across the border. Um, bit of patrolling, or a lot of patrolling, but mostly OPs at night. Patrol all day, OP night, same again.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Yeah, see anything anything happen? Yeah, well, I mean, so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:53

Uh it was so in INFET there was a few. Um obviously Stoushers tour. I had um a couple of contacts um with the Indonesians, and Delta Company killed an Indonesian soldier, Charlie Company killed a couple, um, Bravo Company had a grenade attack and another contact. My platoon didn't have any kinetic stuff. We had it was all near misses, dry, you know, dry hole type stuff. So um, you know, I was a scout a couple of times where we were chasing people who were armed and they just you know always got away, or you know, something else happened. Um yeah, so the whole like I loved the trip, it was good. Um but I think it just at the end it left me wanting more because it was like a massive edging session. You just get brought to threshold all the time. This is where it begins, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

The chase. 100%. Yeah, that's that's what it was. This it's yeah, I think it's really hard to explain that, you know, and I think we speak about it earlier. Uh we didn't speak about it earlier, but bring it up. My phone ringing. Yeah, you're right. What the hell the fuck? Yeah, I don't think it all um as a as an infantry soldier, you don't really care. Like, I I know there's a lot of conjecture now, people going, oh, why would you go fight in Iran or why would you go to fight in Afghanistan? Infantry soldiers or the military guys do not give a fuck where you go. That's right. You get you you train and all you want to do is go utilize your skills and assets in whatever area they put you in, regardless if it's right or wrong politically, you don't care, especially at 19. The last thing you met is the president of East Timor. No one gives who who the fuck is it? I don't care. I just want to go there and do the job.

SPEAKER_06 35:32

Yeah, I barely even knew who the Australian prime minister was, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Exactly right. Um so I think that's one of those things, and as you said, now you've got to Timor, you've got the itch, you know, it's like a a uh a carrot in front of the donkey, but it's just not enough.

SPEAKER_06 35:48

No, it's never enough.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Just not enough. So from there you get back uh from East Timor. However, you get a bit of a compassionate posting uh down to RMC, mate, where all the Rubets are.

SPEAKER_06 35:58

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so I met um yeah, I met my now wife, girlfriend, um, when I was back home in Adelaide visiting my parents. And I don't know, I was really unsettled after Timor. It just felt like it almost felt like the battalion, you know, it felt like I'd grown up in the battalion, right? And then almost overnight you didn't recognise it anymore because everyone had split to the four winds with stacks of dudes, you know, disappeared for psych psych reasons. Lots of people were posted, people went a-well after that inner effect thing, because it was the first big trip in a long time, no one really knew how to handle it, and everyone just scattered. All of a sudden, we've got this influx of new guys, and yeah, I just didn't really recognise the battalion anymore, so I wanted to get out of there, but didn't really have a plan, didn't know what I wanted to do. My girlfriend got a job in Canberra, so I was like, Oh, that'll do. Let's go to Canberra.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Yeah, so yeah, uh compassionate posting down there and but uh uh doing that uh enemy role play stuff for the officers.

SPEAKER_06 36:51

Yeah, TSP. Yeah, TSP. I hate what a sham. Oh, it's the worst. Um, if you ever want to know what being the lowest of the low feels like, try being in a like a digger, especially a grant, a grunt digger in an institution that is only exists to raise officers. It is fucked. I cannot emphasize how bad it was. So I yeah. Officers. It's just depress just depressing saying RMC. It was mate, it was depressing watching them because you know you'd sit, you know, because I don't know, I I didn't think I was great or anything, but you know, you'd done a little bit, so you'd been on operations and you'd done all this stuff, and then they're like, Oh yeah, go and you know, walk five K's over there and sit on that hill, and when you see us shoot us, and you know, two days later they might get there because they've gotten lost or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

And you're like, what am I fucking doing with my life? Officers getting lost, no surprise. Jesus Christ. There are you know some good officers out there, not many. Not many, if any, as Scribe would say in a rap song. Yeah, right. So you spend six months down there, and obviously it's just a depressing, just sad time of your life. And obviously, you're still confused and just don't know what you want to do. However, this is where you get uh obviously you Astra posting back into an infantry unit.

SPEAKER_06 38:11

Yeah, so um you probably don't know this, so I actually changed over at that point. So I'm sitting there at RMC and you know, sitting on the hill and just thinking, what am I doing with my life? And I was panelling on sub one at Holzworthy, and I was like, I can either leave as a corporal or I can leave as a lieutenant in the same amount of time. So I was on the phone later on to after the bush trip to a mate of mine in Torah, and there's um there was this dude who I call the priest in the book, and I won't talk too much about him, but we had a real check at history together, did not did not get along. Um and so we're just having a casual convo, and he's like, Oh, guess what? The priest is going to RMC, and I think he's coming to TSP. I'm like, Oh, what is this wanker follow me all the time? You know, that's no mate, he's becoming an officer. I'm like, Well, that's it. I'm becoming an officer too. And I applied just like that, so flippantly. No all right, that's the end of the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Heal it up, I'm out. I didn't, I I I didn't know this. I didn't, I'm only just looking at this now. I should have read this properly.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Oh fuck. Surprise.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

So we're stop button. Yeah, right. So you're in TSP and again you're just lost, and you thought, fuck it. Yeah, I'm gonna become an officer because they're eaten with silver spoons.

SPEAKER_06 39:26

Yeah, well, see, and this is the thing, right? You know, there's you can see the difference of the way they're treated. Oh, 100%, but you know, hindsight is so always so clear, isn't it? Uh you know, it's a pre-9-11, don't forget.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Yeah, yeah, which we'll talk about, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:39

So no idea what was coming. And if you know, if I had any inkling, there's no way in the world I would have changed over. Because back then it was an officer's army, they were treated so much better than I and I but I never really went for that reason. I went solely just so this dude, other dude wouldn't be in charge of me. Um, isn't that stupid? Like when you think about it, that's the dumbest reason to become an officer in the world.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

It sounds like an infantryman thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

So yeah, that's how I ended up there.

SPEAKER_06 40:03

But but I yeah, I never would have done it if I had known what was coming.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Yeah. So again, you s you go through RMC now as an officer. You spend how long down there?

SPEAKER_06 40:13

18 months.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

18 months. How did you find that? Again, it was a breeze. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, put that out there.

SPEAKER_06 40:22

No, honestly. For everyone listening. Yeah, it it was a breeze. Um and I loved it too, as well, because I don't know. I I was a bit um, like we said, how you know I was unsettled and and I was just on the piss all the time and you know, a little bit messed up, I guess, in a way. Um, and I didn't have an off-sleeve bone in my body, the way I acted and behaved.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

And the amount of trouble spewing on yourself a kapuka.

SPEAKER_06 40:45

Yeah, mate, but the amount of trouble I got in was insane. Yeah. Yeah, if they haven't now, I would have been kicked out a hundred times over. I never would have never would have got it through, not even close. But you know, back then no one had the you know, I was one of the only people at an ICB. So, you know, so you've got you know, you've got to get a walking around the RC. Yeah, so you've got a cadet that's you've done a little bit more than most instructors. And I just don't think don't think anyone had the I don't know, the experience with mental health back then to, you know, pull me aside. No, there was nothing.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

So It was a different army.

SPEAKER_06 41:15

There was. Someone sort of pulled me aside and said, mate, look, you need to fucking either, you know, fix yourself or get out.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

You know, spew it on yourself.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

Yeah, it's stop being a wretch, you know. Like I um have a shower. You're disgusting. Your infantrymen are disgusting.

SPEAKER_06 41:30

I'd never I'd never worked with girls before because the battalion's all more males. Um and I came home, you know, because you know what camera's like, you know, it's great for porn and great for fireworks. I came back one night after Big Bender, and I had a good collection of, you know, porn tapes, old VHS tapes, right? So big like um Sony speakers that were you know almost up to my chest. And I've come home and I've like fumbled around and put this porn on, and I've passed out sound asleep, and it's like fucking full volume. So yeah, yeah. And I've got um this chick, she's probably a general now, probably probably the new new CDF or whatever, living next door to me. And the you know, the porn's just gone crazy for about an hour, and uh, you know, I was none the wiser, I was sound asleep next morning, you know, all broke loose. And this is like this was sort of the thing I did all the time. Yeah, no one ever pulled me up, really.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Is that in the book? Yeah, man. It is just a such an inventory thing to do, just to be a disgusting, just inherent, don't care about the rest of the world, but what happens in your own cubicle. I feel dirty just recounting it. It's it's grateful.

SPEAKER_06 42:38

I think we've all been there. We've all been there. That was also the same not the same knot I drank uh uh you know, cups canteen full of my own piss because I thought um there's no there's no toilets in your room. So I've been way down the hall and I've obviously come back and I thought when I woke up, I was like yeah, well, no, it was really clear, obviously, because I've been on the piss. And I was like, I thought, oh, you're forward-thinking legend, you know, you've left some water to drink. I've woken up forward thinking legend. I've woken up and I've gone, gulp, gulp. And the brain's registered straight away, but my body's just way too slow, and I've like down a gulp or two, and then I've just spat the whole contents and realised what I've done. I'm like, oh man, can this shit get any worse?

SPEAKER_04 43:19

Not so forward-thinking now.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

No, no, forward thinking, not a legend at all, he's a dick. Yeah, right, mate. Uh so you obviously you found that uh 18 months quite a breeze in a way, again, treated totally different to uh you know Garth Singer or Kapuga in a way. Uh from there, you finish uh all that training and then get your first posting as a lieutenant.

SPEAKER_06 43:44

Yeah, as a lieutenant, so yeah, went to 6 RO. That was my so I got my first choice of core, first choice. And I should probably point out too, I wasn't a wretch the whole time. I was wretch probably probably for like two-thirds of it. And then I cleaned my act cleaned my act up a little bit. So majority of it, yeah, majority of it, yeah, yeah. Probably all except the yeah about the time where it came to choose corps. I probably straightened up a bit. Um, because it was really competitive to get infantry and not doing it.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

Was anyone else disgusting like you? Uh-huh. Or were were you the only one that transferred from the NCO side to No, there was a couple of us, and we're all probably equally wretched.

SPEAKER_06 44:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

So, yeah, that's the problem. I think that is the problem because you've lived the the infantry life. Whereas the people who've just joined off the street, they've just come in as an officer, so they're gonna be They were disgusted with us.

SPEAKER_06 44:32

The whole problem they were. These are these are kids from the you know the elite school. I just went to a uh like public high school. Yeah. They've come from these elite schools with you know when they go to rowing regattaas in their blazer and eat chicken wings and you've come from an infantry unit. I've come from a pit in tour.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

That's it, a disgusting pit. I've seen blokes put cooked sausages in the bum and wag it like a tail, naked. And that was no one better than I live at the boozer. I was like, oh, that's normal. How good. Do that at RMC and I was like, ooh, who's this bloke? Yeah, right. So from there, as I said, you uh get your post in the six area now as a platoon commander on the other side of the fence. Uh different mess. Yep. You've got little peasant infantry diggers serving you food. Yeah, I've worked in those messes. I've I've had to do that. Uh how did you find it, mate? Like how do you get find getting to the unit at now as an officer? I I guess you would have had that twofold sense of understanding where the diggers are coming from now.

SPEAKER_06 45:32

Yeah, there was both. I think initially you're also a bit shit scared because you know you know exactly what it's like and and you know what they're thinking. Fuck this officer. Yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah, I mean because that's what it is, and that's you know, um, that's what 90% are, and I can say that having been on both sides, 90% of them are knobs. Shit. Yeah, then and but not just shit, knobs, yeah, knob blokes and shit operators. Um, there were some excellent ones, don't get me wrong. Some really outstanding ones, but the vast majority take a long time, I think, before they get good. Um yeah, so I yeah, I I'd seen both sides, so um I loved the experience, really did. Loved being a platoon commander. The lads were awesome, loved it. Um but yeah, one one funny thing, so when I've rocked up, uh, because all the battalion goes back early, right? So all the senior NCO's officers and that sort of stuff, um, before the platoons and that get in. And they the CO and RSM get us all in together and they set their agenda for the year. And my platoon sergeant, I'd found out beforehand, I've been warned out about him, that was a bit of a loose, loose cannon. And having been a loose cannon myself, I was like, this probably isn't a great pairing. Um, and he's a great bloke, and he was an awesome platoon sergeant, but he stitched me up hardcore on that first day. So the the RSM's up and he's you know, setting all the things, you know, this is what we're doing for the year, and these are the priorities and all this. And my platoon serent just so we're all sat in teams, right? So platoon commander, platoon sign, platoon commander around. My platoon serent just stands up mid-RSM's address and just goes, Sir, I need to leave. And like everyone's just stopped and looked at him. The RSM's just stopped mid-speech, you know, like, what the fuck are you doing? You know, interrupting me. Uh and he goes, you know, sergeant, so-and-so, sit down, you know, you can go at the end of this. No, sir, I need to leave now. He doesn't sit down, he's just still standing there. And now by now, the whole room's looking at him. And the the RSM's like, Sergeant, you know, I won't say his name, but you know, sit the fuck down. And um, my platoon serent's like, fuck this, I'm out of here. And he slams the desk, walks out the back, slams the door, and disappears. And there's just stunned silence in the room. And I'm in my first morning, like, I've been in the job for an hour or so, and everyone's looking at me, and the uh the OC's like, get your fucking you know, hissing at me, get your fucking platoons out in order. I'm like, shit, this is my this is my new reality. Yeah, this is day one.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Yeah, now you've got responsibilities. Yep. Because as a digger, you don't. No, that's right. That's you get told what to wear, what to eat, what time to eat, what time to go to sleep, what whatever. That's the best thing about being a digger. You have zero responsibility. You don't even have to look after your own life. I don't know. They do it for you. Now, as an officer, you've got 30 blokes under you. You need to, you need you need to be that that parent. Yeah, you gotta yeah, you've got to step up.

SPEAKER_06 48:13

Yeah, you've got to step up. Well, you know what? That's the funny thing about the system is you probably don't really have to. You're supposed to, I suppose you should, but a lot of them don't.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

No, no, 100%, yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, right. Uh as a you know, just quickly quick shout out to a couple of officers that I, you know, that shaped, I guess shaped my career back uh back in three hour. Uh Matthew Durago, he was uh a different platoon. Tyson U, if you're out there listening, mate. Yep, more platoon. Right Roland Spackman, he's another one. Absolutely fucking and Chris Gilmore. I think Chris Gilmore's like a CO of something somewhere now, but they're all sport company uh lieutenants back then. That was a long time ago, early 2000s. Uh shout out to them. But uh yeah, obviously now from there you you get your next this is where you get your next trip to Timor now again as I spoke about as an officer, yeah, as a platoon commander in charge of 30 odd blokes. It's got to be daunting.

SPEAKER_06 49:15

Yeah, definitely daunting, yeah, definitely daunting. But um one of those full circle experiences because not just for you know going from like digger to platoon commander, also going from seeing Timor at the start to seeing T-Morr at the end. And I know it wasn't the end in the in the long scheme because we went back again, but at that point in time it that was the last deployment um before it was going to be all shut down and canned. So um yeah, it was a real positive experience.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Um just quickly, what we did skip was 9-11. Obviously, 9-11 happens, you're in RMC on that uh compassionate posting. Surely that what happens there? Like, do you get a flicker of hope? Like, oh fuck, hang on, we might there might be war.

SPEAKER_06 49:57

Yeah, I was unf yeah, definitely, but I was already I'd already changed over. So I was uh in my first sort of phase at RMC and I did uh look very strongly about leaving and going back to Tura. Um but I think they sort of announced the deployment quite quickly, you know, that it was SF and you know, so we kind of knew you know, knew where it was heading for a while and I and and you know, no one no one conventional deployed for quite a while. Um but yeah, when I found out I had my head in the trough doing the morning routine, like shaving, and because you know, you've everything in the outside world is is you know gone, you don't even think about it because your your head's in what you're doing. And we had a room inspection coming up, so I was just focusing on getting you know morning routine done and fixing my room and all that. And then someone's like, Oh, someone had a little like little battle tranny going on the on the mirror, and someone's like, you know, there's something about a plane hitting a tower or something, and I just thought it was a you know like an airline accident. I didn't really think about it or care about it. I was like, I've got more important things to do, you know, straightening my locker and all that. Um, but then yeah, we found out afterwards, it's like, oh wow, this is you know one of the most significant events in in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Yeah, exactly right. Just for listeners, just explain what a battle training is, because that second word could be quite confusing for this day and age. Fair cool.

SPEAKER_06 51:16

Um it's not it's not a a cross dresser back in the army that was Yeah, we don't have a pet cross dresser that just sits in the SALs that just presents news.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Maybe they do now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 51:27

Maybe it's a thing.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

It's a call.

SPEAKER_06 51:30

Um so yeah, a battle training is just a little radio, yeah, a little AMF radio.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

A transistor radio. That's it. Yeah, well, as the olden folks would call it, the transistor. Well my old man would call it a wireless. Yeah. Go grab the wireless. I'm like, what the fuck's a wireless? It's a radio. Uh yeah, right. So that's when you get that first inkling of, you know, there's gonna be war out there. When but it it kind of happened, and then for the defense force, it was just stale. Obviously, SASR and uh others deployed overseas and did their thing, but for the rest of the regular army, it was like, uh, it's fizzled out. Yep. Team or it is. Yep, basically. Again, now let's get back to that team or you deploy overseas as a platoon commander, now in charge of blokes, now part of that command structure, still eaten with silver spoon, and using diggers as uh footrests. Yeah, yeah. Get down there, Delp. Yeah, yeah. And uh again, how long was this deployment?

SPEAKER_06 52:28

Uh so that was a similar time frame to my first one. It was in that four, four, five-ish month bracket.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

Yep, and what was the differences uh in regard to the role this time? This is what five years, three, four years after the fact.

SPEAKER_06 52:40

Yeah, so uh we'd transitioned from like that, you know, peace enforcing to peacekeeping. Uh, you know, there was no blue hat, green hat thing didn't exist on the first one, but on the second trip, you know, it was much more blue hat. We were focused with this, there'd been a big window down, and you you know, previously there was whole battalions covering the whole area. We were a company strength by that that point. Um, so it was a great, great um deployment for a platoon commander and for especially for a section commander because they just had this massive responsibility that you wouldn't get otherwise. They had like whole company size AOs just for a section type stuff. So to be a second on that trip wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

Yeah, so it was kind of like a like a live fire exercise. Yeah, but the threat was actually still there in a way. But you look at it this stage, you know, as you said, 2004, team all starting to wind down again, and obviously in 2006 it kicks off again, but winds down so that you use that time to establish who you are as an officer. Were you loving it? Like were you loving it or because you know, we're looking at your you know, your your timeline here, you know, the following year. I was never loving it, mate.

SPEAKER_06 53:43

Yeah, I had uh well that's not true. I loved I had a very narrow focus, right? The whole focus was once I became a platoon commander was to lead troops and operations, then I'm done because that's all I wanted to do. And I did it in my first you know, year or so of being in the job. I didn't never look beyond that. I never looked what life as an officer was like. Um I just yeah, just looked at that platoon level, never thought that oh shit, you've got six years of being a captain shuffling papers in an office. Never even considered that that was a thing, didn't even look into it. So once I did what I wanted to do, I had no interest being there anymore.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Yeah, I guess that'd be the worst thing about being an officer. Once you leave that lieutenant role, then you become a desk jockey.

SPEAKER_08 54:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

Literally for the rest of your career, you're stuck behind a desk in a way. Whereas at least with the non-commissioned side, and you get the role of sergeant, that's pretty much you know, when it starts moving to the admin role, but that's going to take 10-15 years before you get there.

SPEAKER_06 54:40

Yeah, and you can and if you actively try, you can put that off uh as long as you want, right? Yeah, exactly. Right, yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't if I and if I had been in those shoes, I would have. Yeah, because yeah, because you that opt tempo had picked right up. And like when by the time I left the army altogether, made from corporal and below, you could go anywhere you wanted. There were so many trips and there just wasn't enough people. Whereas a lieutenant, you know, I'm I'm here going, hey, you pick me everywhere. No one's interested. You're going nowhere, but yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

But like you said, you could you could stay a digger as you know, if you could weasel your way through things, you could stay in a battalion for 10 years as a dig. I think it in our in three hours we had uh a 20-year corporal dude. Bill Boone, shout out, mate. I don't know if he's alive or not, but I reckon I've heard of that fella. Yeah, oh mate, he was the RP uh sergeant or RP corporal for the unit and far out used to make us polish the floors and it was just old school. The bloke was old school.

SPEAKER_06 55:35

We had a dude just like that in two, John Toomey. I don't know if you ever heard of him, but yeah, he was like the museum curator and he was like the old you know, the last Queen's Corporal type.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know Bill Boone, same thing, yeah. Okay, yeah. They're just they're they're part of the furniture.

SPEAKER_06 55:49

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. He's it's funny, the RSM would get up and yeah, the boozer parade, and he'd be like, Shut up, Lyd. Shut up. There'd just be silence, and all of a sudden John would be like, Shut up, Lyd. RSM, like, he's the only one who can get away with.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. So, you know, we speak about your so you spend four or five months in team, or we get back. However, obviously there's things rolling through your head already. You're like, I'm not, I'm not working behind a desk. You had a stack of leave, you take a bit of leave. Again, we spoke about this earlier, the circuit, the the um PSD side of thing, contracting mercenary, as some would say, uh Blackwater, blah blah blah, was kicking off. Iraq was in full swing, Afghans already kicked off. Um, this is where I guess you get that that inkling. Yeah, and there's a f like we said earlier, there's a few guys already getting out and moving into that contracting stream, and you do that.

SPEAKER_06 56:45

Yeah, it was becoming big. Um, so one of the sectioning manners, he wasn't in my platoon, but uh there was an operation we did where I had four sections for just because of the size of the AO. Um, and we got a lot, we hit it off really well. Really good guy. He got out as soon as we got back and got a job with CRG, uh, was over in Basra, I think to start off with. Control Wrist. Yeah, control wrist. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, so he was with them and I just kept in touch with him. And then other blokes started to drift off, you know, slowly disappear from the battalion. And I'd always, I don't know if it was just my background or just because maybe I was a bit cash, but I had a great relationship with the NCOs, though um like a mutual respect kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

And well, because you again you understand where they come from.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

And I I like to think I didn't I didn't treat them like dicks either. Um, but anyway, I had a good relationship with a few of them, and a couple had gone, one went with um armor groups doing convoys and stuff, and was later sadly killed. Um but I kept in touch with them all and and I just everything they were telling me was much more interesting than what I was doing. And I was looking down the barrel of you know promotion and um you know becoming captain and doing all the paperwork crap and I just wasn't interested. So um that's I knew I was going right from right from the time I got back from Tmall, basically, and and my mate went over.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

Yeah, so you put your discharge in. So No.

SPEAKER_06 58:03

No, that would be sensible, wouldn't it? Yeah, no, um, I got a job, right? So I recruited. So I was really because I you know, officers aren't known for their operator skills, and you know, no, no one wants a an officer on their team, and and understandably. So I kept that really hidden. I didn't really tell anyone about it, and I sort of kept it out of my CV, and I was just pumping my CV out to everyone, and I was getting really like um risky, I guess, you know, like there'd be a news report, oh you know, three guys are killed from this company. I'd be like, oh, that company, Google them, oh yep, okay. No, whereas I'd send them a CV and that sort of stuff. And eventually, like, um, I got a call from a recruiter in London and he offered me a job, and I was like, I was still in the still in the battalion, I'd just come back from field. And uh he's like, oh yep, great, you know, Dan, we're gonna um put you on a plane in the next couple of days. Send me through your police clearance. And I didn't even know what a this is how naive I was, didn't even know what a police clearance was. I thought he meant a security clearance, so I thought he was talking about, you know, your your secret top secret type thing. And I'm like, oh, I haven't got a police clearance, I've got an army one. And he's like, uh no, no, mate. There's a criminal history check. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'd never even heard of it, didn't know it was the thing. He's like, um, I can't send you without one. It's like the client's um stipulation, you need it. He goes, You've missed out on this one, but you know, go and get it done straight away, send it to me, and there'll be plenty of other opportunities. And I was lucky because I had to be at work the next day, and I hadn't even thought about getting out. I was just gonna, yeah, let's go. Just ADHD kid, just you know, off we go. Oh shit, I've got to go to work tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Well, imagine I don't even think there's any officers I've ever heard of gone AWOL, but probably not. Could have you could have been the first.

SPEAKER_03 59:43

Could have been the first. Uh yeah, right. So eventually you do put your discharge in, obviously. Had the CO take that, not too well.

SPEAKER_06 59:52

So I never told anyone what I was doing. Yeah. Um so I just it tied in nicely with the end of the year. I got a posting. Um and Oh you did, yeah, yeah. So I got a posting and I just said to him I'd Nah fuck that basically. Yeah. And I had heaps of leave because we'd just been smashed as a unit. And like I'd gone on a long look type trip to America, and um I'd done that through my leave and missed all that. So I had m I had something like we had to give three months notice to discharge as an officer, and I had something like nearly five months' leave. So I just put the two in together, and it was, you know, I got the call from the recruiter, I think on a Friday, and then the next Tuesday, you know, I was gone or was there any plane? So I just went in and put my leave app and my discharge at the same time and and left. And I was on leave for nearly nearly six months, yeah. About five months, I think. So my first contract, I was on leave.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

Yeah, and your first contract, where where where are you going?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:42

Uh so the way it worked out was um Harry was the bloke's name, the recruiter rang me and he's like, Um, you can go to Iraq in a couple of weeks, or you can go to Afghanistan in a couple of days. And I'd I'd never considered Afghanistan, it was all you know, Iraq or bust. And I was like, well, we'll burden the hands, we're doing the bush, we're off to Afghanistan. So that's that's how it happened. That's and so next thing I'm off next thing I'm off to bull Kabul a couple of days later.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

Let's let's let's talk about this. You know, I spent a bit of time in uh Kabul and in the later years and it definitely changed and probably got a little probably I'd say a little bit more worse than what it was in those early days, a bit more uh civilized back then. I think all the war fighting was on the outside out out out of skirts. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Run me through, I guess, landing into Afghanistan, mate. You know, again, you've done Timor, you've done your your boys' trip to Thailand. Now you're landing into an active war zone.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:34

Proper war, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Maybe Yosama could have been there. Don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:38

There was talks of it. He probably was at some point.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

There was definitely talks of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:42

Um yes, I've just flown in on commercial air. So the the um the job was really vague, right? So and then and the point that I accepted and went, there was no contracts, no none of that. That all came later. Um so basically, you just get an airline ticket, you get like a verbal, you know, an email, which is like an agreement, and you have to um say yes or no, and then they just send you this e-ticket, basically, report to the airport at this time. So I've rocked up the Brisbane airport, you know, not really knowing, you know, this is Queensland summer because it's December into an Afghan winter. And it's cold, it's freezing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

Ice roads, everything, yeah, especially in Kabul, yeah. Gets a bit of snow.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:19

Yeah, a lot of snow, yeah. Yeah, ice and slush um everywhere at the road level, and then you know, snow all around the mountains and stuff. And so I've just flown in on Civi Air, flown to Dubai, and the instructions were fly to Dubai, go to this specific cafe, and someone will come and meet you. No other instructions or whatever. And so I go into this cafe and I'm sitting down and and I'm waiting for ages and no one's come. And I'm like, I'm sizing up everyone that comes through the door. I'm like, is this some weird test, you know? Like now, I'm out of my league here. Um, and next thing this Bangladeshi looking dude comes in and he's got a company sign upside down and he's holding it up like this with a big grin on his face. And um, I'm thinking, oh fuck, you know, this is amateur owl, you know, what are we doing? Um, but yeah, so yeah, took us to a hotel and then it all you know got a bit more normal. Company rep came out, met us with your contracts, and flew in on Civier the next day into Kabul. Um yeah, and flew in with a few other boys we didn't know at the time, met them, met them basically Aussies? Yeah, uh a couple of Aussies, Brits. Uh one other Aussies, one Brit, two South Africans. Oh, yeah, right, yeah, plenty of Safirs sticking around uh old Rhodesian fella.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:27

Yeah, yeah, there was plenty in Iraq.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

Yeah, yeah, plenty.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:31

Um, yeah, right, so landing in Afghanistan, mate, again, different smells, different times, different feelings, I suppose. And now this is for working for the US Embassy too. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

So there's any bigger targets, US Embassy, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:44

Exactly, yeah. And this was a British company too, which is unusual, you know, working for the the Americans not to have an American company, but it was like some bridging arrangement, and it just became permanent, I think, or semi-permanent. Not that there's any permanency in the in the contracting industry. Um, but yeah, we got through the airport, went through passport control, met the other guys, and all I knew of the circuit was, you know, what you've seen of Iraq on the you know the news and that sort of stuff, you know, PSD teams, armoured vehicles or B6 or whatever. And I'm like, okay, you know, this English dude met us, and he's just real cash, and he's met us in the airport and takes us outside. I'm like, okay, there must be a PSD team outside or something like that. Get out there and he takes us to this Hylux, soft skin Hilux, and uh he's like, get in. There's no like no, you know, convoy orders, no briefs, no nothing. Um, no weapons, even. We hadn't, he was unarmed, we were unarmed. We're like, what the hell is this? And yeah, that was it. It was just a a loose, loose setup, but it was great.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:41

Yeah, and what was your role for the US Embassy?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:44

Uh so it was on the ERT, like the emergency response team. Uh so we had two five-man teams per shift, and we just rotated around the clock um for any kind of any any incident, any threat force thing, indirect fire, um, you know, moving people to shelters and under indirect fire, those sorts of things. Um that wasn't basically the role. Um just respond to anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:04

Anything within the embassy space.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:06

Yeah, and then we also had another uh another facility across the way as well, which we looked after as well. So there was a static guard force of Gurkhas, Nepalese Gurkhas. Yep. And then our guys just did the ERT supervision stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:17

Yeah, just bring that mic a little bit closer, mate. Just cutting out a bit. Uh anything so how how long you spend in uh Kabul? That contract was about six months.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

Six months. Anything significant? Uh no, not really. Um I ran over a lamb mine, I guess that's significant.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:32

Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah, no, that's pretty significant. Yeah, yeah. Um didn't blow up though. Well, thankfully. That's a good thing, yeah. Yeah, it's a good thing. Yeah, uh mate shot himself. Um, I guess that's a big thing. But it's funny, isn't it? My standard reaction when people say say about anything, you know, oh, you know, anything interesting, I'm like, nah, nah. And I used to do it with my wife on the ambulance too. Yeah, anything interesting happened last night, nah. And then next day it'd be like, oh, you know, um, oh yeah, this guy, you know, tried to hack his head off or something. And she'd be like, what?

SPEAKER_07 1:05:59

Well, you said nothing happened.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

I'm like, oh yeah, I just yeah. Yeah. So yeah, um, drove over an Any Tank mine. That was um that was interesting. So um quicks quick way of explaining it, maybe. Um, so we used to go to Bagram, like you know, Bagram Air Base. Yeah, yeah. You used to go to Bagram as a um like a you know, when your days off. So we do it was six days, and then we get two days off. So you come off night shifts and then you're free to do whatever you like, take a car and go. And and the threat was pretty low back then. So anyway, we've there's only one route too from Kabul to Bagram. So we've cruised down to Bagram, done all our thing, you know, because you've got all the shops and all that stuff at the base, and then we're on our way back, and it's um you know it's winter, so there's snow on the ground, like slushy ice, and it's drizzling, and the wipers on the old high luck sort of, you know, pretty trash. And there was me and a British fella, ex British Army sniper, a really good guy, who's now an Aussie, an Aussie citizen. Um, we're driving along and he's on the on the right side because left hand drive and I'm driving. And there's this area uh where the road's kind of washed out, and it's like either there been a previous blast or um just you know. eroding or whatever and it you have to because it's right you're driving the right hand side of the road obviously you've got to drift to the left to get around this little choke point and just as I've come to the choke point and just see this surface laid any tank woman sitting there and we're driving like and what I was petrified of I just like if the if we connect with it obviously we're screwed um and so I've just gone you know shit if I break we're gonna slide yeah we're in the snow and I'm like there's nothing literally nothing I can do except drive fast and hope and I've just sort of cleansed the wheel and just gone straight over top of it and the other side I've hit hit the skids and I've like holy fucking shit and my mate um he's like what what you know because he's ready to go what's going on thinking that we're you know and I'm like mate we just drove a fucking anti-tank mine he's like what yeah and this is the thing right this is what was really stupid about the whole thing that's part of the reason why I call the book all the dumb things um I got out of the car because I'm like was it you know was was it an anti-tank mine because it all happened so fast I got out I walked back into like the perfect engagement area and I've gone oh yeah it is and I've I've still got the photo I've cracked out my little Olympus and I've gone and then it's just like and I recognise how stupid this is you know but um it's like the sound of the camera has just brought me back to life you know like and I've sort of looked around going what the fuck am I doing run got in the car and we're off but yeah so just surface laid anti tank mine just rolled right over top of it. Fuck yeah that could have been the end of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:37

There wouldn't have been a piece left to find no but definitely not an ILAX Jesus Christ call them anti-tank mines for a reason.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:44

Yeah I suppose yeah good advertisement a long drive to um Bagram yeah yeah yeah I think I can't remember how long it used to be a good hour or so or yeah uh yeah right and then uh like you said one of your mates yeah he shot him yeah he shot himself accidentally didn't die yeah um so another trip trip to Bagram Bagram Road end we ended up getting banned from going to Bagram just because there was so much shit going on and the threat worse but back in this is uh oh five oh six not a lot happening in in that area yeah um but anyway we've come through we're driving out of Kabul and my mate is an Aussie uh he was our team late he was on the right hand side I was driving again and you know he's had to keep a few cars back with a with his glock and we've driven around and he's had his had his glock out and he's just had it in his lap and you know we get to the pass and he's go to the toilet and there's a big pass before you come out of the city and it'd be a big pass before you get down to the planes head to to Bagram and so he asked me to pull over I've pulled over and he's gone to the toilet and as he's got out of the car he's slipped so he's had the glock in his hand he's gone to holster it and so he's holding it in his hand and he's like slipped on the ice and he's shot himself in the leg and I was just sitting behind the wheel looking ahead you know scanning for threats and I hear this pop and I hear fuck I've shot myself and yeah he's so the round's gone in through his calf and at this point we didn't know at this point I hadn't done any you know paramedic training or anything and we just knew the basic battlefield stuff right so you know pressure elevation look for an exit wound and he's wearing uh Australian army boots and it's not a bad advertisement for Australian army boots actually we couldn't find an exit wound anywhere we didn't take his boot off which is a big no no but um looking at the boot it looked you know the integrity of it seemed fine and we didn't want to wait around we wanted to get that get out of there um but one of the funny things about it was he would not let us touch him until he went to the toilet because he was busting so there he is he's like blood dripping onto the snow going to the toilet don't fucking come near me no he's still holding his clock no mate we're not coming near you so yeah and then we we took him to Bagram and uh the Yanks are on a lockdown at Bagram I don't know what happened some sort of threat force thing had happened and uh they're like you can't get in there's two two heads just bobbed up from the bunker and then they're like you can't come in and I'm like nah mate we're from the US Embassy we've got a a gunshot wound to the leg and then all of a sudden you know everything sees part and they're letting us in and we get to the hospital and they're all like told up you know with all their gowns and ready for surgery and they come running out and I'm like this seems a bit over the seems a bit over the south I don't know what's going on and they're like and I said oh yeah bit of a handover kind of thing I was like oh you know we've got you know guy with a gunshot wound to the leg and they're like where's the guy with the gunshot wound to the head and obviously with the accent and stuff that gets in the front I thought I've said head and set a leg but it got us in um and I never understood this bit at the time those who now haven't been in the ambo for so long most of them are just like is that all and they've just walked off and left us.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Oh do they because you know they were looking for something good you know but so that's and just just on that you speak about that obviously we'll talk about the Ambo stuff you know we you're moving into that ambo role I'm sure you got some fucking just stupid calls someone sprained their ankle and you rock them like are you serious that is you're gonna spend yeah you're getting a$500 fucking ambo bill yeah for a sprained ankle yeah and and worse all the dumb things oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I reckon the worst one I ever went to for for you know nothing jobs was a a dude who drew he said he got stung by a bee who had an intellectual disability he showed me a piece of paper with a drawing of a bee that was his beast thing and you know we go lights and sirens for these sort of jobs shit mate well and it doesn't infantryman probably was definitely wasn't a former life yeah right we'll definitely talk about the Ambo stuff just shortly let's crack through the rest of this uh contract of life so you finished the you know you do your time at um US Embassy get back to Australia mate but I'm sure you're just like what's next what is next yeah you're out of the defence force now there's no there's no safety net there's no safety net there's no guaranteed paid every fortnight so that's when I went to the Fed so just before I left I'd applied for um the federal police and as an agent no as a like a PSO like the Protective Service.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:08

Oh yeah yeah so I wanted to get on the um you know the air marshals is what I was um wang wangling on. Big thing back then yeah it was yeah massively and that's post thanks to Simer. Yeah that's right yeah yeah um yeah so I wanted to get Oh I have now I have to get my fucking laptop out of my bag so fuck you uh Simon I'm glad you're dead anyway um yeah it started that whole new new industry didn't it yeah um I don't yeah I don't even know if it's a thing anymore but anyway that's what everyone was wanting to do back then and I was you know I guess jumped on the bandwagon went through the whole recruitment process um and it was it got to the so I completed everything and it got to the um like the security clearance side of it and just I don't know if it was just because I'd been in Afghan and all these other stuff it just dragged and dragged and I started to panic thinking I'm not gonna get in or they're gonna reject it or whatever. And uh I saw an ad for customs at the same time and it was both the jobs were at Adelaide Airport and I was looking to move back to Adelaide at that point we're living in Brizzy.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:04

And um so I applied for the customs one just as a backup and got it and so yeah got that first so I ended up doing that so yeah and this is doing border controls like airports.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:16

Border force stuff yeah at airports we had um yeah I said it had more of a national security kind of focus because it was in that era where all the you know local Muslims and stuff were all heading over to be foreign fighters in you know Iraq and that sort of stuff al-Qaeda and you know Osama hadn't been killed yet so there was this big you know push for people coming over to to fight for Osama and stuff like that. So I was sort of fo in an area that was focused on finding those people.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:42

Yep so you go from being a digger to an officer over to Afghanistan apply for the feds get a job at customs a year later you're like fuck this is gay.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:53

100% yeah that's exactly what next yeah yeah yeah yeah I was sitting in the break room and uh a news report came over the um thing and it was uh I forget the guy's name now which is is bad but it was uh the commando that was killed uh just after Matlock uh 2000 what have we no seven I guess uh Jason Marks no I was before that um I can picture him um the X1R guy anyway so he he had just been killed and I didn't know him didn't know him at all but I should know this hang on yeah so should I um he was literally the reason I went back um but anyway so I saw the news report and I was just hating life and I was like I need to go back you know just it was just like this compulsion like I need to be part of it all and the quickest way to go back was to go back in contracting. Yeah yeah sorry mate let me just quickly double check this so we're not I feel rude every time I've Luke Luke Worsley Luke Worsley yes correctly because actually fuck I should have known that because I know because they called a I went to Afghan in 2008 and they called a patrol base on the way to the Balucci Valley um Patrol base Warsley Patrol base Warsley yeah yeah yeah okay yeah oh so you were there in OA yeah yeah because we went there at the same time oh yeah right yeah right but you were as a contractor yeah yeah uh yeah so you've seen all this stuff customers are like oh this is not for me yeah but again again I I think I spoke about this earlier this is where that it was just an uncertain time and you're so young and you just like you have no idea what you want to do and I think one of the worst things about the defense force at that stage back then it's probably different now but you just had no direction like you're right they I think they manage people a bit better these days and they kind of push in what you know to have those scammer chats and career progression chats etc they never did it back then you just went to mortars and that was it you just had no idea what you're gonna do next so obviously this is where you get that inkling to go back to contracting you've already done it before you're like fuck yeah Afghan and Afghan's kicking off because now like you said you know we speak about Walsley Lance Corbelmarks uh there's there's deaths from the Australian defense force and it's obviously starting to it got more real get excited exciting as well you know for for the dig uh you get back to Afghanistan mate however this time as you worked part of the US uh eight air wing yeah so um yeah that was a it was a pretty sweet job so um we were doing the helicopters so they had this big um air wing of fixed wing which they didn't have anyone on and then they decided that they wanted to bring in um helicopters and it was all because the road convoys were getting hit so much that it was safer to fly. So they brought in these um Bell 212s originally and then later on um MI8s, Russian MI8s and they put security teams on them. So we had to look after the airframe and the and the pilots and we're just flying all around eastern Afghanistan all the American patrol bases. I was up in like when Restrepo was happening up in 2008. Yeah so I was up in Kuna province where that was all happening around us um we're flying into like SF patrol bases um oh yeah yeah yeah um artillery fire like one for us in support so we've got to hold off because we can't come in land until this finishes um and we're in this big shiny red white and blue helicopter I know yeah it's insane when I think back about it but fuck it was fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:18

Yeah yeah so your role for this was just primarily the security for that that uh that Hilo really and obviously when it lands you've got to set security and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:30

It was more when it landed but not so much the airframe it was more the pilots because none of the pilots were um they're all civvies aren't they? Yeah and then none of them are coalition uh like from coalition countries Russians and yeah so they needed to be escorted they needed someone with a coalition ID base to escort and ground base gotcha because otherwise they're just Roman free right yeah so and as I said a lot of them were Russians they were dead set Russians. Yeah they're either Russians or uh mostly Safirs a lot of them too like um yeah even had an Aussie pilot once he was a good guy yeah yeah but those Russians mate they were they were epic epic pilots were loose loose loose boozing up and just flying rusty helicopters everywhere and obviously you now you're doing security for these guys uh how long did you do this for it was about eight eight ish months roughly eight months so you're so obviously your wife now was your girlfriend she's obvious still your girlfriend then uh we were no we were married by then you're married no kids what's she thinking like uh she's just like fuck this bloke again yeah basically yeah yeah what's what's next nasa yeah when I it's funny when I came back from that I nearly became a helicopter pilot I like I'm not into diagnosing you know later in life kind of stuff but I reckon there's easily a commount of case for ADHD I just couldn't fucking sit still didn't know what I I didn't want to didn't know what I wanted to do I wanted to do everything and I wanted to do it right now um any job you know it's like you know you hear of another contract you're almost like oh fuck I'll do that yeah um I was just that's that flippant um so she was just shaking her head but when I said like floated the idea of becoming a pilot she's like you've got one more job in you you know you can do it if you want and I'll support it but that's it you're doing that for the rest of your life I didn't do it I ended up doing the ambo one instead which is about I'm pretty stuck now I can't change yeah well lucky there was no kids back then either so that's always uh when kids get involved then that's probably when you start slowing down obviously exactly but uh we'll talk about that now obviously you're in Afghanistan you're doing this anything crazy happened during this I'm sure maybe a few rounds flying in and flying out and uh like controlled landings like um controlled crashes auto rotations yeah yeah rusty air aircraft yeah I had one so we had I reckon we had about four or five um auto rotations while I was there I was only aboard for two um and they all turned it out all right but some some of them were some pretty loose loose events we had one an Aussie guy was a team leader on it um he went down in a place called Wardak province yeah so Wardak it's not too far from Kabul but it's it was uh that was a Taliban stronger yeah or Mujaharin more than anything yeah so there was no coalition presence in Wardak because it was just I don't know I don't know why they accepted it but there was a really strong Taliban fighter group and they just controlled the area and no one ever really did anything about it. But it was right on the pass. So we come through the mountain pass when you go to Gazani and Gardez and a lot of those places you come back through the pass to get to Kabul and you have to go through this Wardak Wardak area. So I got a call once uh from I call him November in the book I won't say his name but an Aussie guy he's the team leader X1R fella great guy um and he just goes oh man the bird our bird's gone down I'm about to hijack a car I said we're all good like he said we're all good we're safe um and I'm like fuck you know because I was on the in the CP I'm like okay um do what you've got to do but you know I'm gonna mount at rescue and we're gonna come and get you and so just basically gone out of the ops room and just grabbed whoever was there and I had two British guys they're both ex-paras or one ex-paras one ex-Royal Marine actually um really solid guys and I didn't even need to really ask them I'm just like so and so's gone down this is the deal and they're like you know they're in so we're just literally grabbing guys on the way as we're going and we're loading up and we're going because we're you know they're about an hour away by road um and the only thing that really helped us was the weather because it was a big snowstorm so what had happened with the hilo had been hit in the snowstorm just from the um the weather of the altitude had forced it down lower and lower to get below the storm and then it just couldn't got to a point where it couldn't safely fly anymore. The Aussie pilot absolute gun he's landed this Bell 212 inside a koala so like completely completely landed and I'm talking like when we got there that's almost like blades touching the walls of the koala he's put it down perfectly in this and not not tipped it not crashed and nothing. And so the boys when we get there so we we got there okay no issues and and the weather is really what saved us um they were there and they were okay but they were freezing cold. So we've evaced them back out to Gabool and the rest of us have stayed there for a bit and I've kind of I've kind of I've been working the phones as we're going because you've got to there's so much going on and everyone wants you've only got one phone everyone wants from top down and wanting to know hey what's going on and it's not like the army where we've got comms radios and a SIG you know that I'm used to having a SIG doing all this stuff won't we trying to you know do it all myself. A peasant yeah yeah yeah I should I should say though my SIG ended up becoming commando of legend blow oh yeah right yeah right gold couldn't get a better SIG and a better work. Um so no I'm not trashing SIGs but um but yeah so we yeah we got to the the um koala and we sent um the boys back um in one of the B6s and the rest of us stayed there for a bit and on the way I'd been talking to the USAID rep and so they sent a drone up for us and they kept the drone over the top. We secured the area we had a pretty like koalas are pretty hardened they're pretty reasonable to defend. So I thought oh while the storm's in I reckon we can you know we can defend this place. We're not gonna we're not gonna risk any lives over a you know a piece of machinery but you know we might be able to turn this in our favour. And so we stayed there and I I'd told a bit of a story to them um because they wanted to know how many you know Americans are on board this sort of stuff. They're only interested if Americans are involved and there were none. So I was like just real cagey about it and I didn't say oh yeah there's you know heaps or anything you know because they'd want to know names and password numbers and I'm like oh I you know I just I don't know I'm I'm I'm confident there's something in there but I don't know who you know I don't know how many just to keep them sort of interested and stuff. And they're like oh you know the best we can do for now is put a drone over. So they send this drone over and they were keeping in touch with us and telling us you know what's going on and because of the weather not much was happening. Anyway it's getting close to the end of the day and the sun's going down and we're like well that's sort of our last safe moment I think once we lose our light we've got no NFE we need to get back to Cabool and you just see in the distance you just you know yanks white light everywhere oh yeah you know massive massive convoy of you know 50 um I can't remember what those vehicles are called now but the you know the husky big the MRAPs those ones yeah the MRAPS yeah big convoy of MRAPs come out and then uh they're all yeeha you know just so so stereotype yangs but I love them fucking love them and uh yeah they've come and they've secured the area and uh and we're like oh he knew he'd been duped straight away the the company commander I'm like you know showing him around the position and I'm like well all right um we're we're off to Kabul um see in the morning and you know you could tell he was like I've been conned here anyway so we've gone back to Kabul and we've come back the next morning and we brought the flight engineer with us and this is the um you know if you briefed this plan like RMC or any of the you know Sardin's courses, Coral's courses, they'd been you and fire you straight away you know because they're so outlandish. The engineer got the blades um de-iced and cool by using the MRE heater packs. Oh yeah yeah so he literally lined we lined all the blades on this um B212 so four four bladed aircraft um with heaps of them MRE heaters and he's heated up and melted all the ice off the blades and then they've started the helicopter up and flown it back to cool okay all done now if you had a breathe plan how are you going to rescue this helicopter with MRE I'm gonna put MRE heaters all down the blades and it's gonna melt it and we're gonna fly it back. They're gonna like this guy's an idiot. But it worked.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:10

All the dumb things all the dumb things yeah that's epic that is epic yeah right and I was you spoke about there was two times when you're in a hilo when it's you know it's sputting in yeah yeah so um that's got to be a a pucker moment yeah it's probably the it's not the closest I've come to dying but the first time I felt I was going to die if that makes sense yeah yeah yeah because it it's uncontrollable you're not in control.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:34

Yeah that's what it is yeah because I look back and I'm going shit I've come actually a lot closer than that since um but at the time I was like this is it you know and I'm not religious at all but the first thing I said was oh god you know and I I wasn't sure if I said it out loud or if I'd said it in my head. I'm like oh God not yet and I've looked across and that Royal Marine who helped me in the other rescue he's sitting on the seat over over from me and he's wide eyed looking the same and he's a you know a tough guy experienced guy been to Iraq and everything with the Marines in the invasion and you know L4 Peninsula all this sort of big stuff and he's I could tell he was feeling it as well and we're just going this is you know this is the end. We're on our way to cost of your uh Eastern that's a bad bad area that was a bad place I think they've done a documentary in that area as well yeah okay I'll have to have a look at that um yeah so we're on our way to FOB Salerno which is a uh it was a conventional base at cost um and we're just doing a PAX drop-off passenger drop-off and as you come out of the pass there's Salerno but before Salerno there's uh another like a um OGA I call it OGA other government agency base um and it's on the one on Zero Duck30 where in the scene where the dude comes up to meet them and he detonates. Yep so we're heading so you basically fly and that's a no-fly zone you can't fly over you have to fly around it so we're coming into Salerno and just I don't know I don't know any of the mechanical stuff but the aircraft just dropped like it hit turbulence and we it felt like we dropped a meter and that's where I've gone oh god you know this is it kind of thing um and then it's just shuttered and it was almost like the main rotor and the tail rotor are out of out of sync or something and it was just vibrating like crazy and that's when I've looked across at my mate and we're both oh this isn't good and uh so in a yeah in an MIA you have a pilot co-pilot and a flight engineer and they're all Russian and the the flight engineer he's like Dan come come and it's about the only English he could speak and I was I've got off my seat and I've come in and he's just pushed me down onto a seat like this and it's the little jockey seat behind the pilot and the co-fire and he's shoved this headset on my head and I'm like what is going on it's like an episode of Thank God you're here because I've come in and I'm like and then look you know you're like oh no now you're a helicopter pilot or something. I'm like what the fuck am I supposed to do here? And everything is in Cyrillic like Russian writing all the gauges I can't read any of it. And I worked out what they were doing. They were trying to communicate to the controllers at Salerno for landing and we've had a you know made a mate or whatever. And they couldn't communicate with them so they wanted me to do it. So I'm this I'm a passenger in the back. No idea what's going on. No idea with this aircraft that has some kind of malfunction. And I'm trying to talk to a you know an air traffic controller about landing. And we're coming out of the pass, and I know we're close. I know if we go down, you know, we've only got a few Ks to get there. And we come in low and fast over that OGA base, which you're not allowed to fly over. And I'm just like, you know, uh call someone was Teasers Hotel 90. I was like, Teasers Hotel 90. I'm like, and he starts giving me technical directions because he hears the voice and he's like, oh, English speaker, you know, great. And I'm like, and I just said, you know, mate, I'm a passenger from the back. I've got no idea what's going on. The pilots are Russian, they don't speak English, but we're coming in low and fast, don't and don't shoot us down, kind of thing. And uh yeah, we made it, we limped over the over the Heskos and sat down hard, and and then that was it.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:52

All was well that ends well. The dashboards just lighting up and just blinking and just I don't know, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:58

Russians yelling in Russian, that's what they're just like, oh fuck. Yeah, that's the thing. Um they were just you could tell they're stressed, yeah. Like the pilots and co-pilots, and our pilot was he was loose, but he was a good pilot. Never had never seen him, you know, he's unflapped. When you see them stressed, you're like, something's going on. And when they brought me in, because that's the other thing because they have a door like that they close for the cockpit, so you can't see what's going on. When he pulled me in, I was like, Yeah, no, this isn't good. This is most like we're screwed.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:25

So yeah, mate, we're coming in out of fucking from the back, know what's going on, just don't shoot at us. Yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:32

And see you in a second. Yeah, it's literally what it was. And because you know, the dudes like give me technical directions and shit. Like, I can't even read the grid because none of nothing's in English. I'm like, mate, I I have no idea where we are. We're a red, white, and blue blue helicopter, we're a civilian, but we're an American call sign, don't shoot us, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:49

Yeah, so shit, mate.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:52

All right. Now I guess that comes to the end of that era. What eight months you're saying? Yeah, thereabouts. About eight months back to Australia. I know, so you don't move back to Australia, you go straight onto another contract.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:05

Yeah, so I go home for a little bit. I go home for a month or so, and then nearly went to Iraq, job fell through at the last minute, and then I was sort of out of work then because I'd planned to jump ship to this Iraq job. Um it was in El Ambar province with Sabre, uh, and it looked like a really good gig, I was looking forward to it. And then the day that I was meant to fly out, had some recruitment freeze and they lost the contract, so I was out of work real briefly, and I just put the feeler out to mates, and then that's when I came across this um poppy eradication thing in Uruzgun.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:34

Yeah, all right. And that's how I ended up in Uruzgun. Count of Uzgama province, 2008, so we're in in the same area at the same time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:40

Uh yeah, because you guys would have judged, because you would have been, well, RTF. So you guys had just rolled out as I'd come in because I was there for MRTF one and two.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:49

Gotcha, gotcha. So that would have been Novemberish? It was exactly November, yeah. Yeah. Uh oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I think I left in November 08. I can't remember. Okay, there you go. Uh yeah, right. So you obviously get moving to this canon narcotic stuff. What are we what are we doing? Like, what is this? Is this convoys? Is this hilo-based? Is it no?

SPEAKER_06 1:32:07

It was road all road work. Um, but it wasn't sort of convoys, it was like um don't even know how to describe it. It was PSD work, but it was um so it had to look after a US intelligence officer, ex-intelligence officer. Um, and he just went around the province doing stuff, and we just kept him safe, basically. Doing stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing for agencies, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, literally, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:31

Um and how many of you guys with him?

SPEAKER_06 1:32:34

Sixteen.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:34

Sixteen.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:36

Sounds good. Yeah, all Afghans. Oh, was it all Afghans and me? It was loose. Just me. Loose as anything, yeah. Just me. Just me and and this American guy. It was it was pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:45

Which is not bad with the Afghans because there's no rules with them. There is no rules. You know what I mean? Yeah. At least you can't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in a way it's safe, but not safe. Yeah, you've got to you've got to be careful, yeah. Because you don't want to disrespect them and because they'll just cut you off. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, just just obviously at this stage again, we're talking 2008, Uzgaran province is flooded with Afghans.

unknown 1:33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:08

The war's going on. Yeah, yeah. You know, I spent most of my time in the Bluechi Valley.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:12

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So we went up there. So we we rolled all over the whole province everywhere. I went to Mirawai. What are you rolling in? Uh B6 Land Cruisers for us. And then we had a high luxe at front and rear, like gun trucks kind of thing. So it was a very overt kind of convoy.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:27

Yeah. Did you have any interactions with ISAF forces or oh yeah, lots, yeah. That's what I mean. Like and where they're confused? Yeah, heaps. Like you rock up to her and you've got two gun trucks, and there's two random white dudes, and you're like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:41

All our ops coordination stuff was done through the Americans mostly. Um, you know where the Yank, where the SF base was? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so Ripley, so we're in there. So we're a little bit separate from the Australians, but still in the same big broader base. Um I tried to coordinate because I knew I actually knew like a lot of the, you know, the captains and that kicking around are people I've been in, you know, RMC with and stuff like that. So I knew a lot of people around the place. So tried to coordinate with the Aussies as much as possible. Had a great relationship with MRTF one that all flipped on its head when MRTF2 came in. They didn't really want it to have anything to do with us. So coordination was good in that early bit, there wasn't too much trouble.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:16

But some arrogant officer come in, and yeah, I reckon that's what it was. It's not what it was, it's exactly what it was.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:23

It was they were yeah, basically it was ego. Um the new CO, so the old CO would invite us to, you know, and this is like mouse shit whinging stuff, or I guess really, but you know, this sort of shows you how good the relationship was.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:38

Seven, the CO would invite us to any piss-up they had, any any event they had, he incorporated us in everything. We're allowed to go into the CP and put our um overlays up and say, This is where we're going, this is what we're doing. MRTF2 came in and the CO refused to meet us. Like didn't even want to say, and we're we weren't just you know randoms, we were a coal a coalition call sign. Um, you know, there with the US government, all this sort of stuff. Refused to meet us, and it was just like a close shot from then on. And we had a couple unit was that? One hour. Not fucking Angus Campbell, was it? No, it wasn't. Uh I don't know the CEO's name because I never met him. Yeah. But um, yeah, easy enough to find out.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:19

But uh yeah, didn't want anything to do with this. And we had some we had some real trouble. We had uh, you know, nearly like green on blue sort of stuff. Oh, wait, the Australian Defence Force. Yeah, yeah. No, no, with the Afghans that they were mentoring. Yeah, oh you're right. And the Australians, I this is a real sore point with me. I won't drop his name, but this one are our fella. Um, so we were at Bumen, remember patrol base Sorg Magab. So we used to, with seven, we used to went seven area were MLTF one. We used to always drop in like local patrol bases, you know. Oh, we're working in Chora for the day. So we drop in a mirror and say, you know, this is what who we are, what we're doing, blah, blah, blah, this is our core song, this is what we look like, don't shoot us, you know, this sort of stuff. You can see our vehicles, that sort of stuff. Because, you know, people see Afghans on a gun truck, they're not sure they are, and they just call the bucks as well. And then two white dudes. Yeah. So it was it was loose. We got shot out by the Dutch once. Um, but yeah, that that's like separate again. But anyway, this green near green on blue, we've rocked up to um to Bumen, and the Afghans have just straight away pointed one of their weapons at us, and they wanted us to get out of the car. And um, there's no way I'm getting out of the car. And then they came and put an R RPG at the front and pointed, pointed out, all right, um, I'll get out of here. Yeah, yeah, we're kind of screwed now. You got me. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So they knew how to you know how to play the game as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:29

The Afghan uh key.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:30

Yeah. That's strange. Opens the door to anyone. Yeah, and it works, yeah. So anyway, me and this other guy we got out. And um, we're like, where are the Aussies? You know, bring the Aussies here. And took ages, and they were like pretty menacing. There's two Aussie trainers come out in PT gear, boots on, and their um, you know, vests and weapons slung. And I recognized one of them straight away because he had been in mortars in one era when I was a digger doing my mortar course. So I knew who he was and I knew his name. But he had no idea who I was, obviously. And we're like, you know, mate, this is what's going on, you know. And they're like, oh, and at the time it made me fucking wild. Uh now I kind of get with the you know the green and blues that happened after that, and they had to they had a pretty fine line to walk, I guess, because they had to live with these guys. They didn't want to get involved at all, didn't want to tell the you know the Afghans to back off or whatever. Um, they're just saying, you know, it's your problem, what are you doing here? kind of thing. I'm like, mate, we're we're in the area, we just wanted to, you know, say good day and introduce ourselves, you know, to let you know what we're doing in your backyard, basically. And uh, yeah, so they didn't want to get involved, and we were just able because they were there, I think the Afghans weren't game to do too much, and we just used that as a look, we're all sorry, we weren't come back again, get in our cars and off. And that was the final moment. I never coordinated anything with the Aussies again after that, which was unnecessary, it didn't have to be that way. It's just arrogance, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:51

So arrogance and ignorance, yep, both both in the same sector, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:55

Yeah, massive immaturities in there. I think it's of course, mate, of course it was from the Australian army because you know you know Yanks have worked with contractors for years, and they're getting in everything, yeah. But Australia never had never done it at that point, and you know, we were like this enemy to them, you know. Like, I don't know, I don't know what they thought we were up to, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:12

Yeah, right. So I'll get that name afterwards. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully it hasn't been on the podcast. Yeah, if it is, I'll delete his episode. Uh yeah, fuck. Yeah, right. So you're doing this this this is this is odd contracting. It's very odd.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:27

So all the other contracts I had, you know, there's a contract and there's you know a bank account that you're getting money into, and there's there's a company. This company, I am 100% certain was a front company. Yeah. No longer exists. Of course. And um no website, no nothing. It was owned at the time by the CIA director or ex-CI director. Uh, all the people were intelligence people or ex-intelligence people. Um they ended up getting called in front of the Senate Estimates Committee or something years after I left because they were involved in dodgy stuff um with the Taliban and things like that. They got dragged through, you know, the Senate, US Senate, and all this sort of stuff. Um, it was nothing to do with what we were doing. It was a different contract, the same company. Um so yeah, it was it was loose, it was wild.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:12

So rather than counter-narcotics narcotics, they were distributing narcotics.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:16

Yeah, we were who knows? We used to call ourselves counting narcotics because we we played with it and all around.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:22

What's the in those conspiracy theories about it's oh I can tell you CIA or these CIA moving drugs into Afghanistan, uh into the US and blah blah blah. Who knows? Who knows the corruption that was going on and you were part of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:35

Oh no, no, you know, I was just looking after a guy that was, you know, you're in there just like Pablo Escobar what's that movie?

SPEAKER_03 1:39:43

Um little friend, he's just got all the coke all over his face. No, it wasn't like that. No, it definitely wasn't like that. It could have been like that if you wanted it to, but I wasn't that sort of guy. All the dumb things, all the dumb things, yeah. Right, so you do that, period. Now, I'm sure as you said, your wife kind of gave you that ultimatum bro, like switch on. What are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Yep. Come home, obviously gonna start a family down the track, we're married, blah, blah, blah. Figure it out. Yeah, pretty soon. And you get back to Australia. Ambos, like, where does this come into play?

SPEAKER_06 1:40:20

Um, there was a couple of aspects to it. Uh, so you know, while I was overseas, you see different things that you know you're involved in, and you're like, I really wish I knew a bit more about medicine and about the body. So there was that factor, you know, when when my mate shot himself in the leg was one example, you know, like when I missed the the exit wound that was glaringly obvious through the inside of his ankle, um, you know, by not taking his boot off and checking properly. Uh, there was a few other things like uh there was a girl called I can't remember her name was Moali or something. She ended up being on Time, the cover of Time Life magazine. I was in the SF base when they brought her in and she'd had her nose and her ears freshly cut off. That's right, yep. Yeah, so so I saw her when that was all um had just happened. And you know, different things like that. And there was a lot of other, you know, I had an like we took a lot of rocket fire in the end of 08 earlier nine, like heaps of indirect fire. Like Greg Sher was killed from a rocket at the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:10

Yeah, did relax with Sherpa, yeah. Yeah, very well. Well, yeah, we copped tons of 107 Katushka rockets in the valley, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:17

Because it was before um, you know, CRAM and that sort of stuff being there. Um so it was, you know, it was all the time. So one of my guards was wounded in the leg. Um the shrapnel, I was in the vehicle, strap went past us and hit his leg. There's lots of little little things where I'm like, oh, I really wish I knew a bit more and had more confidence in dealing with you know medical situations. So and I thought, you know, I could probably at that stage I didn't know where I was, I was probably hedging a bit either way, like a new career, but also this could help my current, you know, contracting sort of stuff. So I'm like, oh well, go and study medicine, you know, some paramedicine, become a paramedic. So that's that's where it came from.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:48

That's just where it came from. Just the interest of seeing it over the years and like fuck, maybe which you know you look at it contracting these days. Again, we spoke about these offline. It comes hand in hand now. If you carry a gun, you should be more than competent within the medical space as well.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:05

Carrying tourniquets and obviously back then it was you carried a tourniquet, a couple of gauze and compression bandage, and that was that was the knowledge.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:13

Yeah, and maybe some yeah, yeah, some disinfectant or chlorxine or something. That was it.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:17

Yeah, yeah. A bit of uh blood, what's that blood clotting age and stuff? Oh, um, hemostating. Hememaglaws, hemagawors or whatever they called it. Yeah, all right. So you're living in uh South Australia. Yeah. Still living in South Australia, your wife's working, she's given you the switch on, pick a job, stay with it. Please stay with someone. Please stay with it. Yeah. And now this is where I guess you kind of find your purpose. So you start this pipeline. What run me through, I guess, from the start now. So you get back to Australia, you apply for a position with uh South Australian Ambulance. What's the process for before?

SPEAKER_06 1:42:51

Yeah, so before that, so before I left, I applied for uni. So in South Australia, and it's different in different states. And this is a pre-national registration, so now it's much more coordinated nationally. Back then, South Australia had no academy, there was no in-house training, it was all um like a university course, and they I guess it in a way it let them see you, you know, see your level of commitment because you'd go through and do all the training yourself at your own cost, and then you'd apply for the ambulance service after you'd had your had you know earned your degree. Um, so yeah, I applied before I left Afghanistan, left uh in December 09, start of uni straight, you know, a couple of weeks later, start of 2010.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:31

So at this stage when you apply for uni, you don't have no guarantees of becoming an MBA, is that right? Because you have to complete your university studies first, and how long is that study period? So it was was four, nearly four and a half years by the time properly qualified.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:45

So um so I did a three-year degree, and then you do an 18-month on-the-road internship. Yeah, so it's a lot, it's a long process, it's a big investment, and that's why a lot of older people don't do it because it's there's a significant cost to go on to uni full-time for three years.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:00

And how did you survive?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:01

You obviously cashed up from contracting. There's a bit of that. That got me through the first year, second and third year. I worked uh virtually working, yeah. Yeah, work virtually work full-time study and full-time employment as well at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:13

And it was all just a range of casual jobs on top of the other. And I didn't know whether I was coming or going half the time. Like it was, yeah, the hours are crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:21

Yeah. Now you show you know, within your life, sporadic movement of jobs and focus. Uh, like you said, you probably had ADHD in some aspect. Now you're going through a period of three years of just study and obviously work. Were you motivated? Were you staying? Yep, that was the difference. It was you were just keen this time. Yeah. You found your purpose, like I said before. I think you're right.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:44

Yeah. Um, but I had to teach myself to learn because it's a different way of doing everything. And I'd never um I think I found the you know, it's just that there was an appealing subject that I could apply myself to it. And I think at school, they just I just never found a subject that was appealing that I applied myself. So it wasn't that I wasn't capable when I always thought I wasn't capable. Um, it was just I never found anything that interested me enough to to apply myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:07

Yeah, and just quickly though just for my own questioning here, uh obviously you go through this uni stuff in 2010 uh-ish, 200 what, eight, nine, ten. The advancements of medical training, did that change over the years while you were in paramedics or did it just No, no, it definitely changes.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:25

Yeah, it's part of like and it is just evolutionary just keeps Yeah, science keeps getting better. Um, you know, wars are a big way of how medicine evolves. Um so you know, there was it was boom for war. Um so medicine was evolving really quickly and and techniques and and then everything was improving.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:41

Like medicine itself, like as in medicine as a profession, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:45

Yeah, just everything uh involved in in medicine and we call paramedicine like pre-hospital med uh pre-hospital medicine. So everything in those both of those spaces was advancing the whole time I was working there.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I guess you can you know for me I can see it in the civvi aspect as well. Whereas, you know, 10-15 years ago, tourniquets were taboo. They were frowned upon. They were frowned upon, which was wild because within the defence force it saved countless lives. And obviously, now they've pushed it into the civilian world and everyone's like, oh fuck, it actually saves lives. This is interesting. A bit of a bit of material can save a life and stop bleeds, crazy. But uh all right, so you get through all this um uh uni work, you still work at the same time, and then eventually so what happens? So you complete that degree, and then does uh South Australian ambos go, right? You've completed your degree, now you can go do placements, or yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:38

So first year you're not allowed to touch anyone, basically. Um that's where you learn all your foundation skills and your theoretical knowledge and stuff, and then second and third year just steps up where you do ride-alongs and you might be able to take a blood pressure, or you know, the it really depends on what the crew you work with are willing for you to do. Uh so some let you do more, some are a bit more risk-averse and won't let you do anything. But by the time you get to third year, you're running jobs under supervision and and you know, doing all the things you need to do to to do the job.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:06

On those first, you know, first bunch of placements that you do, is there any time, you know, obviously doing these right-alongs, you rock up to a job and you're like, fuck, I've I've I've what's going on here? This is this is no gunshot to a calf. This is wild.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:20

Yeah, yes and no.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:21

Um But interesting, obviously, because that's probably what you were yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:25

Yeah, so definitely in terms of like, wow, um, I had no idea people lived like this uh in my own in my own city, you know. Um the drug stuff, I'm not never been into that sort of scene. So I didn't even Finley Street. Yeah that's only street's nothing, you know, compared compared to some of the little ghettos where um yeah, it's crazy. I had no idea that these pockets of you know, drug dens and that existed, but yeah, they're everywhere, everywhere. Um so that was eye-opening for sure. I did see a lot of things where I've gone, wow, I didn't know um, you know, life was like this, but it never put me off. I I knew it was like it's like I'd found I'd finally worked out what I wanted to do when I grew up. It was like, oh wow, this is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:06

Yeah, and what age are you now?

SPEAKER_06 1:48:09

30 something.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:10

So you 31 or 32 or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:12

Finally, finally just growing up. You're not spewing on yourself anymore. Uh maybe not as much. Yeah, once or twice a year instead of every week, maybe. Yeah. Anzac day only. Yeah. Uh yeah, right. And again, you finish that three-year period uh doing your degree, then you get accepted into as a full-time Yeah, so as a paramedic intern, so it's the first step.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:33

So that's where you that varies from you know whatever jurisdiction you're in, 12 months, 18 months, they all change. And it often changes from group to group as well, depending on their needs and stuff. So but it's around 18 months. So I applied for that. Uh, I was lucky enough to get in the first intake um for my graduating year, and it goes nationally because like people are doing these degrees in every major union now in Australia. Um, so yeah, got in and did my internship and yeah, hit the road.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:58

So you get in on this internship, and what what does this mean? You're just partnered up with obviously uh like a field training officer basically in a way or a senior paramedic.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:07

Yeah, they call it a clinical instructor, and it's just a partner essentially, but it's a um your whole legal right to practice is basically theirs and you're doing under their authority, so their supervision. So um you know, they sort of start you off really slow, a little bit like the ride-alongs, you know, start you with the basic stuff and step you up and and you know, by the end you're running jobs yourself and that sort of stuff. And that goes for six months, that's called paramedic intern development.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:32

Are you driving or are you in the back or both? So you rotate everything. You take turns. So something serious, they'd be like, Oh mate, I'll take this. Sometimes we'll sometimes push you into the deep end and go, mate, this is this is your time to shine.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:44

Yeah, exactly. Depends on the character and personality of the CI. Some will do exactly that. They're like, Oh, off you go, mate. And they won't let you fail because it's a lot of someone's line. Yeah, yeah. But you know, I always learn better in the deep end, I think. Um, so I like that much better.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:00

Looking at your career, mate, yeah, it sounds like it.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:02

Um just yeah, the I mean I've I never I don't know, I have failed, but I never feel like I've really failed. Like I always just jump in the deep end and just I work it out.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:11

Do you think that life experience of what you've lived through at that time gave you a bit of an advantage of understanding cultures as well? Cultures, definitely, uh different human beings and just life in general.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:22

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:23

Yeah. Yeah, I think it did. Um in a whole range of factors, you know, like interacting with the public, um, just you know, that not having a flap if something, you know, big happens. Being able to interact with the other paramedics as well, because being older, I mean they generally see school leavers. So I I stood out because I was 30 something, you know, so I look different. Um and that that's I think that's the sort of age bracket that other paramedics want wanna have coming into the service, but they're just not able to get in there because of the I guess the barrier of going to uni and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:58

Yeah, and I guess again, you've lived that life, so you're probably not gonna get overwhelmed. Over even big things. Like it could be some dude with a gun, and you're like, whatever. Yeah. And my first time I ran over a fucking anti-tank mine. I remember my first time I auto-rotated out of the sky. You know what I mean? Like you just got that that that ability to go, fuck, it's not that bad. Like, we'll figure this out. Yeah. Whereas I guess some, you know, you got uh an 80 and I leave school, does three years of paramedical science, 23 years old, never lived a life. You know, the worst thing they've seen is probably someone spraining an ankle and now they're rocking up the scene where there's just some junkie with a fucking spear or whatever, you know what I mean? Just going, oh shit, I'm in the deep end.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:38

Yeah, it can definitely scar people. 100%, yeah. I mean, like I I um you know, I feel like I'm scarred in some way from the job. There's I don't think you I think I said earlier, no one gets out of it, you know, without something. Um, but you know, yeah, exactly. A young person. Like I think of my daughter who's a teenager, if she went into that sort of role, you know, like that's that's some significant things for people to experience. And yeah, I feel I feel bad for some of the young people for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:00

Yeah, of course. Now we speak about these significant events. Now let's run through, I guess, you know, the first couple years on the job, you know, you finish your your internship, uh, as you said, for that first six months, then you become well just a regular what what what do you call it?

SPEAKER_06 1:52:14

Just a yeah, but in South Australia it's just paramedic. In some other states, it's you know, advanced paramedic or advanced care or you know, they have different names, but it's all the same thing. It's just registered paramedic.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:24

Yep, is is there sorry, in that six month period, is there like a sign-off things you have to do, obviously to get signed off on and then yeah, a whole range, whole range of things.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:33

Um they don't go I mean you do scenarios to get the because everyone's experience is different, you know, depending on what region you are, you might get a certain type of yeah, you might get a lot more mental health work or you might get a lot more druggies, just depending on where you're based. So there's no specific types you have to tick off, but so it's all scenario-based or mannequins and that for the actual sign off to make sure you're competent and stuff. Um, but then there's all this all the practical skills you have to do, you know, you've got to be able to have done it live airway or uh you know, cannulated so many times and you know, all these sorts of things.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:01

Yeah. Did you uh during your career contracting, etc., experience any outside of old make shooting himself in the leg, any other type of trauma and death or uh yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:12

Um of course, yeah. Yeah, like Afghan, yeah, heaps of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:16

Yeah. Um I mean, my we ran I say we, um, one of my Gurkhas ran over an Afghan once. I'm not laughing by the way, just for anyone. I'm definitely not laughing. Um, but yeah, he ran over an Afghan, uh, he had an exposed femur fracture. Um we took him to the hospital. Poor bargain, like we had no pain relief, no medical stuff. And I didn't know that. This is one of the other reasons I you know wanted to become an ambo, wanted to have more knowledge. Um that poor bastard, we drove him around for a couple of hours. And his femur's just sticking out his femur sticking out, and like the hemorrhage was controlled, and and we'd bandaged him and we'd done some stuff, but um, you know, no way is substandard, you know, no way is that it's very substandard care. Um, you know, we've driven this dude around, no pain relief, and you know what Afghan roads are like bouncing long, and um, yeah, that was just what that's one example of yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:06

Yeah, and on your first, you know, again, this first six months or even that first year or two on the job, again, experiencing absolute just wild scenarios where just like, holy shit. Yeah, so many things for the first time.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:20

Yeah, you know, and and it's funny, you can be a paramedic for years and still see something you haven't seen before. Oh, no way, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like I um I won't go into it too much, but in my current role, so outside of the ambulance service, I did this uh this heat stroke uh a couple of weeks ago, near fatal, like was right on the nice edge of dying and didn't die. But I have never in 16 years of paramedicine seen a heat stroke that significant before. Um like what do you mean? Like seizing on the on the absolute precipice of death. Yeah, right. I've just yeah just had just become so dehydrated and so um you know physically exhausted, he exerted himself so much that he and in the heat that he had got a heat stroke. And that's you know, 16 years of seeing a lot of stuff, never seen one that bad. So even now you still see and come across things you haven't come across.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:08

So every job, every day you're doing something, and it was like your mind was blown every day. Like, whoa, didn't even know that was possible. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:15

Yeah. Now we speak about you know, earlier, you know, there's been times, you know, a hundred plus times where you've you know applied first aid as a paramedic. If the person doesn't make it, I'm sure that's got a somewhat just I don't know, like it's just next level.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:32

Yeah, I reckon it's easily uh, you know, a hundred plus. Um yeah, they never no one ever tells you this when you become an AMA because you know your perception is, and my perception was, you know, we're gonna go and save lives, you know, we're gonna go and do all this stuff and help all these people. There's so much more death than there is life. You is there? Or at least for me anyway. Maybe I'm shit, maybe I'm a crap paramedic. Maybe I'm just no good. Yeah. Um, but yeah, for me, there was so much more death than life. Um, yeah, you lose way more than you save. Yeah, yeah, it's really um I don't I couldn't rip out stats for you. Um that'd be interesting to see, yeah. Yeah, well, so you know, the rate of survival for out of hospital cardiac arrest, it's got a lot better because techniques have changed. Of course, yeah. Um deep more DVIs around, kicking around. Yeah, that's a big part of it. Bystander CPR, but even just the you know, hands-off chest time and the you know, I guess the tactics so to speak that we use uh is different now to how it was when I started. Um back then, not many people, you know, to get an outcome, a positive outcome, where someone walked out of hospital after a cardiac arrest was like a real big deal because it just didn't happen all that often.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:37

Yeah, right, fuck mate. Now let's let's get into a couple of jobs. Right and obviously you've got a few jobs written down in that uh in that book. Yeah, there's a few chapters on the on the ambulance stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:46

I it's funny. Um when I started writing, I was like, oh, you know, I haven't really got much to say. Um but then you start writing down, you're like, oh, and then you remember this one and oh, I don't remember that one. Just you just forget it all. But so there's four, there's probably four or five chapters on ambulance stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:00

Yeah, and before we start on that, so you're sitting in uh at your ambulance station. How many how many people in a in a generally a station? Depends.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:08

Some some stations are single crew, some are multi-crew, four or five ambulances.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:13

Depending on how big the city population is, yep. How big was your station?

SPEAKER_06 1:57:16

I moved on again, I moved around like every other you know part of my life moved. Um and that was by choice. I was a sp like a spare, they call it a spare. But um basically you're not fixed to a particular station and you work at every different station. And I like that better just for the variety.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:31

Yeah, different, yeah, different locations, different different everything. I think meth is different, meth attics are different in every area. Is that right? Yeah. Um so you're in a in an ambulance station, you kick them. Well, you probably probably know real time to kick back sometimes. I'm sure there's like the cops where there's just job after job after job after you're just driving around and a job gets called.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:51

You don't even get these days, you don't even and I say these days, I left the ambulance service in 2021. And at the time I left, there was no driving around because you were you were jobed, you were on a job. It was just job with a job. There was no, no, like we would grow into the hospital with a patient still on board and comms, and you know, this is not against comms, they're you know, good people when they're just doing their job, but they would be like, I know you haven't unloaded yet, but how long before you can go again? Because you know they've got five priority twos waiting that they can't send an ambulance to yet, you know, this kind of thing. Um and it's I imagine it's only gotten worse. Everyone I talk to reckons it's gone worse since I left.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:27

So is that because so yeah, uh just segue onto that quickly. Is that because there's not enough ambos or not enough stations or what's the I can only speak for South Australia?

SPEAKER_06 1:58:39

Yep. Um so it's a mixture of things. It's one a limited investment at the right time in ambulance services, so there was a massive gap where they just didn't invest in it, and they've been playing catch-up ever since. Uh, South Australia has a real aging population, so a lot more old people, a lot more problems, uh, and not just health problems, but you know, falls and you know, traumas and those sorts of things. So there's a lot the patient workload is increasing, um, and the investment in ambulance services hasn't kept up with even the population growth, let alone all this extra aging population and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:10

Yeah. So really, instead of Albanese putting out a fuel video of$20 million, he should have given that$20 million to the South Australian government and said, mate, I want you to use that$20 million to give to the South Australian ambos. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:25

Why would you though when you can make a really cool ad?

SPEAKER_03 1:59:28

$20 million, mate. There's movies out there they've made for$20 million. Yeah, it's insane. Two-hour-long movies. Yeah, you could have got Chris Hemsworth for at least$10 million to put him on a fucking ad to tell me not to use fuel, or maybe I don't know. Did you take your roof racks off?

SPEAKER_05 1:59:45

Pump up your tires or some other shit. Yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:50

You trying to trigger me now, aren't you? Yeah, let's not talk about politics. I'll go on a rage. Uh yeah, right. So anyway, back to back to your life as an ambo, you're as you said, you're just under the pump, non-stop. You get a phone call, uh, a a message from the call center, and they're like, we need you to go to this location. What type of information to give you? Again, I've had a whole bunch of police officers on the podcast, and they kind of give me a bit of a you know, it there's a male with a knife or blah blah blah. Do you get that kind of nine-liner type thing?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:22

Exactly that. We probably have the same screens as then. We have like an MDT, a mobile mobile data terminal, and it puts up it puts up some some really unhelpful shit, but like the um uh just automatic prompts, which are a pain in the ass you skip past all the automatic prompts because they get in the way, and you want to hear what you want to see is what the caller said. So um there'll be some free text in there from the controller of what the caller said on the phone, and that's where you pick up the most of the important details about the job. You know, you know things like the age and the the gender, generally speaking, not always, sometimes you know nothing. Um, but generally speaking, age, gender, um, you know, and the basics of what you're going to. So you know that before you get in there.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:01

So it kind of gives you a bit of an um an advantage of to be prepared to know what you've got to turn up to.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:07

Yeah. And that's yeah, especially helpful if you're working with new interns and stuff like that, because you've got to talk through some of the you know the procedures, you know, what are your priorities because they're getting this massive sensory, sensory overload, and you've got to sort of bring them into focus on what they're gonna see, what you're gonna do, you know, what are your priorities for treatment, all this sort of stuff. So it's it's good, it's it's a better way of doing it. It wasn't like that when I started. Yeah, it's all free hand drawing, like writing hand writing stuff down as they communicate over the radio.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:32

Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure there's times where you've like again, uh plenty of cops have had on they've rocked up to a job and it's turned out to be completely fucking opposite. You're like, this is a lot worse than or a lot better than what it was said. Yeah, yeah, had that loads of times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, again, let's talk about some of these wild jobs. We spoke about a couple offline, mate. Run me through a couple of these jobs where you've just gone, holy shit.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:57

Yeah, so one uh one moment where I was like, I didn't even know this was possible. I went to a dude who tried to hack off his own head with a pair of scissors and obviously high on drugs, but um, when we got there, I would have sworn that someone had tried to murder him. He was face down, and he had been I can't I can't imagine the amount of persistence that's in that, right? You know, to sit there and hack away with a pair of scissors at your own throat.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:24

And he'd cut through his esophagus, is just like sit like yeah, yeah, he was using them like scissors scissors, not not.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:29

No, no, he's not like uh knife. Just a bloody a bloodied pair of scissors, you know, and so you know the sharp bit's close, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:02:35

What what so just quickly, what type of drug are we talking about? Is this meth or this like that has to be something like this world, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:42

It has to be an upper like an amphetamine type stuff, so it has to be meth. I would imagine meth. Pretty prevalent in Adelaide everywhere, um, and cheap, you know. So he's probably um and the thing is you know, you don't know whether is this a suicide attempt or is this just he's fucked on drugs and he's just decided to hack his own throat for a for whatever reason. But the um he was face down when we got there and there's the blood on the carpet and the you know the scissors are on the ground, and you just think someone's trying to murder this guy, like is there someone else in the house, you're thinking threats and stuff like that. Um, because how could you do this to yourself? Inside a house, you said.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:15

This is inside a house, yeah. And then this is before the police rock up.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:18

Yeah, yeah. So the police, it's funny, the police um police came through the door as we're rolling him over. So just as you sort of see the Freddy Krueger, you know, moment of it's all open throat and everything, and they're like, whoa, you know, we're explaining what's happened. And um there was someone, someone was there. I don't know who, like a family member or some sort of person, some sort of bystander, but it was an older lady, maybe his mum or something. Um, and yeah, so he had managed to cut through his throat, so his esophagus, his trachea, he'd cut all the like the fascia, the muscle, musculature, it was all okay. And I remember seeing his jugular, and it was just like a wet piece of wool just hanging. Like he and it was like, surely, mate, if you're trying to kill yourself, you just snip it. You know what I mean? He's hacked all this out, and it wasn't like a clean cut, it was like a centimetre or so of whole tissue just removed. It was just like this void in in his throat area. Um, and he was alive when we got there. He was making this raspy kind of breathing sound. Um, and he was alive when we got him to hospital as well, um, which is insane when you think about it. But I don't know, yeah, I can't see any way how you would have survived that. No way. Um, just a reconstructive surgery alone, a bit to know, next level. So I mean, and that's just uh that's just an you know an average night shift job.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:34

And like just again, I've spoken about this with cops. They've gone to a a murder or um you know, somewhere where it's just blood splatter everywhere and it's just absolute carnage, and they go home to their wives and families and watch home and away and have a bit of spaghetti bolognese and go to bed. Yeah. What do you like? Do you guys do an AAR after it? Obviously, again, coming from the military, big thing is AARs.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:59

Yeah, some jobs where you just move on to the next. A bit of both. Yeah. And there's and I'll be honest, there's no real rhyme or reason um for which jobs get flagged and which ones don't. I I've been called on my days off, they have like a peer support programme, so a peer support officer's called me on my days off once for a job that I didn't even go to. You know, they're like, Oh, you know, I heard you went, you know, you went to this, and because they get the um the printouts, you know, from comms. Yep. So at some point my car has been attached to this job, and we've that happens a lot where you get put on a job, then you get put on a different job. So I think we were sent, you know, second or third car to this big job, and then we've been diverted to something more pressing because they don't need that many cars on it or whatever. So I've got a peer support call about something like that, but no, the the nothing dude hacking his head off was nothing. Yeah, no, never heard anything. But that's right, I'm not critical. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah at all because of that. But um, because those are all voluntary, like those PSOs, like that's a voluntary role they do on top of being Ambos themselves. But um yeah, yeah, there's no rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes they get the right the right job gets a follow-up and sometimes they don't.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:58

Before we move on to another couple of other jobs, are there been times where obviously you speak about the police rocking up just after it happens where something's going down and you go, fuck, thank god the cops are here. You know what I mean? I'm sure there's a million of them.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean I got chased out of this is um kind of a funny one in a way. I got chased out of a house with a knife from this guy. We got called to a seizure, so it's a just a fairly benign, like run-of-the-mill job, right? Um and the thing with a seizure is you use up all the glucose in your brain, and your brain gets really irritable. So this guy, uh, we get get to this house, like a unit, like a flat, flat level um block of units. We go in and this dude doesn't live there. So these met this chick has picked him up and she's taking him back to his house. And somewhere with getting in the in the doorway, he's fallen and hit his head and had a seizure, and there's a massive pool of blood as you go in the entryway. So we sort of stepped over this pool of blood. And you can't tell if his irritability is because he's intoxicated, which he was usually, um, the head injury from falling, or you know, the seizure or whatever. So we're going getting the version events from the lady, and whatever the result, she just wanted him out of her house, you know, because she's brought this dude home and he's spilled blood everywhere now he's being a dick. Uh and the job just seemed normal to start off with. And I was driving, so I wasn't attending, so my mate was attending, and he's an ex-navy guy, big, big solid dude, great guy. Um, anyway, so I've come out and I've set up the stretcher and you know, get everything ready for us to um extricate because you know there's no hint of a threat or whatever. And I come back in the room, and just as I've come through the door, I've stepped over the big pool of blood, and I see the dude just run at my partner, and my partner's a big guy, he's just sort of shoved him back, like just to defend himself, nothing crazy or excessive. The guy's got up off the floor and it's an open plan little um little area, like so a little lounge and a and a kitchen. The dude's run to the kitchen and he's ruffling through the drawers, and you know, even with all my you know, worldly experience, I'm thinking, like, what's he doing? And next thing he thinks is this massive kitchen knife, and he just runs at us, and my partner's like, run, and I'm probably three metres away. You know, my partner's between me and him already, didn't need to tell me twice. So we've left everything, you know, and I'm already on the good side of the pool of blood, so I've I've legged it. My partner's jumped the pool of blood come out. We've jumped in the ambulance, and the guy's been chasing us with a knife, he's slipped in his own pool of blood, and that's the only reason he didn't catch us. And we didn't even realise till the next day that the next crew told us that took over from us. There's a big bloodied handprint down the whole side of the ambulance where as I'm driving off, he's got to the ambulance and it's like had a go at us. Uh, and so you know, we're on the radio to the police, and and the police come around and they're awesome, they've helped us so many times, and they come quick for us. Uh they so they came around and they're putting on their vests on, and I'm, you know, because I'm like, I hope they smash this fuck. Um, and I'm really, you know, quite excited about it, and I'm egging them on and you know, jeeing them up, like make sure you, you know, give him one for me kind of thing, because I can't do that anymore. Um, and you know, even now I'm now I'm in the you know, the care bearer role, I'm gonna pat him on the head. Um and of course, he comes and you know, gives himself up as soon as the police come, he's like you know, he's not a tough guy anymore. He's now you know, I'm sorry, I'm you know, and he's you know, he's howling and I'm so sorry I did this to you, and like I'm just like, I wish the police had just smashed him. Yeah, so yeah, it does they help us a lot, they save our many times.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:12

Yeah, no, that that that's it, that's it. Um children. Yeah, I guess is where it probably strikes a bit of a chord. Yeah, you know, definitely. You know, for me, you know, you see an adult, whatever, you know, it's not whatever, but it's just like you just that's that's life. Yeah. When you see a child hurting, it's just a absolute game changer. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:35

You're spot on. People, I mean everyone dies, but adults are meant to die. Yeah. In my mind, children aren't meant to die. Yeah. But they do, they die a lot. Um, and yeah, that's a very unfortunate part of the job, is we're the first to see them often. Um, you know, I've had a few and they talk about this. Um, they say, you know, pediatric cardiac arrests aren't that common. This is what, you know, senior Ambo say. Uh, you know, I did three in one year. And like this is this is a job they say, and they say that you know, people can go their whole careers without you know doing, right? And so there's me, after everything else that I've done. I've done three, you know, did three in this one year. It was the only three I ever did, mind you, but I did them all together uh in a short space of time. And yeah, I was like, oh wow, you know, that really does affect you. What ages are we talking about? Um so two seven-year-olds, uh attempt attempted resuscitation on two seven-year-olds for cardiac arrest. Yeah, so drowning, post-drowning. All three of them were post-drowning, actually. Um yeah, so do you want me to tell that story? Or yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so I think it's all too applicable, isn't it? Um yeah, yeah. So um basically what happened was there was uh a family from a family, like hundreds, hundreds of people having some sort of celebration at a public beach, and I have to probably shouldn't shoot a s about. You know, I've gotta try and keep it um, you know, because patient confidentiality is important and because it was a significant event in Adelaide, it is easy to But it's it again, it's expected that generally it's the the immigrants that come over and just they're landlocked and look at Bondi Beach, mate.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:06

Yes, the Chinese, it's guaranteed. Like it's just guaranteed to happen every single year.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:10

Yeah. Yeah, so we'll say um, you know, people from another culture that come along and you know can't swim and don't read it the signs very well in English and that sort of thing. Uh and five children raging in age from seven up to in mid-teens were on this little break order. And like locals know that you don't swim there, you know. You know, there's big rips and stuff. Uh a wave sort of whacked them and knocked them in, and the older ones were sort of strong enough to be able to get themselves back to the back to the rocks or back to the shore. And uh, but the two littlest ones, the two smallest ones were missing missing. Um, but we get the call to go to this, you know, this priority one cardiac arrest, and it's a chaotic job. So, you know, what I was saying about the data terminal, right? How you get information that pops up, and it's the information that the caller gives you, as well as these auto prompts. It was updating so quickly because it was a public space, there's like 30 odd callers, you know, like everyone's calling an ambulance that's seeing it. Uh, so all that information is hitting the screen, so it's updating quicker than we can physically read the info. So we got to the job with no real concept of what's actually happened. You just know that it's a priority one pediatric cardiac arrest, and you assume because it's at the beach, it's a drowning. Um, there were some mixed messages in the in the data terminal. Some things were like, you know, child under CPR, some are like child missing, and you don't know where to start. So, anyway, with the beach, it's a long stretch of beach, and you can't get the vehicle and all the equipment to the actual spot. So it's about 200 metres away. So we pulled up as close as we could uh and we made our way with the equipment across the beach, and there's just a sea of foreign people. And I don't know if it was their grieving process or what, but they didn't give us anything, didn't interact with us. You know, we're like no, I was near frantic, I was near frantic. Uh myself and my partner, we were the first paramedics on scene, so we're the first responders before the police were ever on um surf life saving with. There and they were the only people that um gave us any help, gave us any anything common sense, any anything that we could use. I'm asking people, you know, where's where's the kid under CPR? No one, no one even just really acknowledged our presence, right? And so we've got our way through the crowd and we've got up to the the shoreline, and there's three children and a surf life sata, and one of them's on oxygen. Two of them seem all right. Just quick, you know, sort of visual inspection, part of our assessment, where we go up to a patient, you visually inspect them, and you're getting a whole range of you know our health information just from the visuals. They all looked all right. You knew the one was on oxygen, but you could tell, okay, these three aren't the you know the critical ones. Where's the other two? Where's the one under CPR? And so we're you know, we're asking where's the child under CPR? Because we could the crowd was that thick that we could have just walked past them and not even seen them, right? And that would be the worst case scenario if you've missed this kid. And so I said to the surf lifesaver, look, tell me what's going on, like, no one's talking to us. And he's like, uh, he goes, I don't really know. He goes, I like I think they're still in the water, I think they're missing. And a little bit like around that point, um, I just remember someone yelling out and a lot of noise, and someone, one of the lefesavers in a little like little rib, he had like a child, limp child, and he's passed him up to us on the other side of the brake. One of my partners ran and grabbed him and brought him over to the sand, and we started working on him straight away. Um, his airway, he'd been in the water a long time. His airway was so soiled, so all his stomach contents had been all regurgitated through his airway. Um, he'd eaten egg sandwiches, like had it been his lunch because it was everywhere, you know, it was all over his face and his body. Um, and he was pretty pretty hectic, emotionally charged job. And then I'm doing CPR on this child and I feel this tap on my shoulder, right? And I'm thinking, and I look over and it's uh a local, like a member of the public, and I'm thinking, can't you can't you see him? It's not the time. Yeah, can't you sound busy? Like, what the fuck? And I've held my tongue, but I'm thinking, like, what the fuck? And uh he's like, excuse me, um, there's another one over there. Oh yeah, man, yeah. And I've looked over and there's another child face down just on the shore with the the waves lapping at his feet. Oh shit. Yeah, face down, and uh that was the other one that was missing, so we just didn't have that info. Um, anyway, so we're we're there on scene, a small group trying to work on this patient, and now we've got a dilemma, we've got a second patient, and we've only really got the equipment for one, so we've got to split, we've got to split people, and we've got to work out how we're gonna do this. So it's only you two ambos, and that's it. There's a couple by this point, there's uh an intensive care that's got their couple of other people, people are starting to come in now.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:35

So um sorry, just quickly to cut in, uh you've got the ambo ambo like yourself, and then you had those intensive care, the mic, is it mica? Yeah, is that what they call it down there? Uh no, Micah's Victoria, but same thing, different name. Yep. And the and sorry, the difference between that is they've just got a bit more ability to use different drugs or something. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:56

That so it's experience, it's another course on top, so a postgrad, but then in practicality it gives you the ability to use different drugs, different doses, different methods of um entering your body, like so you're intravenous rather than an intravenous. So they're more like undermining a doctor in a way. Yeah, in a way, not not obviously not to the extent, but yeah, a gap between a paramedic and a doctor kind of thing. They bridge that gap a bit better. Um so we had one of those on scene who um was a good guy. Uh and so he was looking after the airway by that point, and I was doing that, I was doing compressions, which is why the guy tapped me on the shoulder. And so we made the decision as a team, because no one does it independently, you have to all agree at an arrest whether we're going to call it and and declare them life extinct. So no one no one can just say, all right, this you know, this guy's dead, we're not doing it anymore. We will have to be uh in agreement. And so we've decided as a group to call the end of this resuscitation and focus on the other one.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:49

Um how is that in the moment? Obviously, that's a fucking big call for a child, you know, like again, a child. Yeah, we literally And with the crowds of people around the parents and fuck mate, like that's it's a heavy toll to take.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:03

It is heavy. Um you're basically giving up on someone's life to try and save someone else's. Yeah. And you know, and and how do you look at kids the same after that? So we've decided as a group that we're going to give up on this one child and we're going to try and save the other one because he's you know come out of the water fresher, and and he there was a bit more to it, so he had a bit better cardiac rhythm, so and he gave a bit more of an indicator that he might be more likely to bring him back than the other one. And so we worked on the other child for ages and we resuscitated him on the way to hospital, and he was he didn't make it either, he was also life extinct. So um, but yeah, the weird thing about that job is I went back there about six months later for another pediatric drowning, same foreign community, same country of origin, hadn't learned their lesson, another one drowned.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:50

So then unfortunately, like you said, there's you know, obviously barriers and just different cultures, different I They just don't understand our waters. Like our waters are dangerous, aren't they? Yeah, fucking treacherous. Yeah, yeah. You gotta be real careful. Absolutely. Mate, that's uh just fuck, like how do you? I don't know. I just I can't I can't I I've been through a lot my life, but I I just couldn't fathom rocking up to a scenario like that and then just making calls. You just go into um and it'd be Are you a parent at this stage? Yeah, yeah, so that's that's got to be a kicker as well.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:28

Of course, of course, you know and it's funny, so um, you know, we haven't talked about it, but you know, I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder in 2019, and part of the um part of the trigger of the journey into that was when my son was born. At that stage when I went to the job, I had one child, um, a daughter, and so I just sort of compartmentalized it where you know I didn't have a son, it was foreign, you know what I mean. It's it was foreign, the whole experience was foreign to me. Um you know, I couldn't see I I think the issue with jobs, right? And this is just me personally, not everyone, but when you personalise the job, when you may you relate it to something in your own life, that's when things start to spiral. And so I was able to compartmentalize that job because it was a boy, he was he didn't look like my children, you know, and I had a daughter. Um so it was, you know, it uh this isn't related to my life. I could shove it into a corner, put it in a box in my head and not not deal with it. And I never and I never thought about that job much afterwards, you know. I took it in my stride and I was I was pretty, I think at the time I was pretty on you know on the job doing quite quite well. Um, because you just go into this zone, don't you? Like when same when you're overseas and like you said, compartmentalise.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:39

That's what uh first responders military guys do best. Yep. Put that trauma and it's like a jack in the box, though it comes back out. 100% it's under tension.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:48

Yeah. So this is the weird thing, right? And when my son was born, so I'm bathing him, this is when I started to feel like I was falling apart. So I'm bathing my son, and he's a little baby, and uh he's a big boy too, so he's only young, but he's big. And uh, you know, I'm bathing him and just a flick of water, because you obviously don't have the bath. There's an adult bath and it's a big bath, you don't have it very deep, so he's laying on the bottom and splashing in the water, having a good time, and just a bit of water flicked up and landed just in the corner of his eye. And it sounds so stupid when I say it, but just the way that water pulled in the corner of his eye just took me straight back to compressing that kid's chest and just seeing he had this pool of salt water just in the corner of his eye, and something I'd never thought about for years at that point. This is years after that job. Well so when did that job happen? Uh 2015, 2016 thereabouts. And so this is now 2019, right? And now I've now got a son and multiple scenarios in between. Mate, hundreds of thousands, you know. Yeah. Um and yeah, just something about the way that water flicked, just it wasn't all of a sudden it was, you know, the kid was in the bath and it wasn't the kid, it was my son that's dead, and and it just my your mind just starts playing all these weird fucking tricks on you. And I'm starting to have different dreams and it just sort of spiraled from there. But that was the very first inkling that something wasn't quite right for me. Um where I was like, I'm fucking falling to party, and you and you just hide it. You you know, you do everything you can to deny, deny, you know, don't you know don't let anyone see this, you know, this going on because they'll think I'm fucking crazy or weird, or they'll you know they'll take my job away from me, you know, which I loved. Um and you're a man.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:29

Yeah, you're a bloke, you're a man's man, spot on. You're a gangster in the past, Afghan military, you're meant to be that strong figure. Yeah. And unfortunately, people are like, oh, well, it's 2026, you don't have to be that strong masculine man. Well, you do, because that's how we're brought up. We come, we grew up in the 80s and 90s where our fathers were fucking men. Exactly. Their fathers were fucking men. Yeah. Yeah. So you could see where it comes from. Yeah, definitely. You try and be that, you know, the household.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:59

Yeah, you're the rock, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 2:22:00

You're the security guy. Everyone comes to you for the exactly right.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:02

Yeah, yeah, and that's exactly what I was living. And I was uh not paranoids, petrified, really, petrified that it was all coming down around me. And so, you know, people probably knew or you know suspected that I wasn't quite right, but I thought I was doing a great job hiding it for years because I didn't leave the service to a couple more years after that. Um so I thought I was, you know, no one knows what's going on. Um, but I'm really my days off and I'm falling apart.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:26

Before we break into that, you know, I guess the the mental health aspect of things, let's let's just build the picture a little bit more. You've given me a couple of jobs already. This one significant one that obviously, you know, comes uh into play down the track. I'm sure that again there's more scenarios with kids involved and just uh again, more horrific events you're just rocking up to and compartmentalizing all of them.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:49

Yeah, all the time. I mean, you know, cardiac arrests, bodies. Um, it's the you know, it's never been the image of the actual job, like the physical injuries that's ever bothered me. It's always it's that human story behind it. Um, you know, I went to one and it's a nothing, and I say it's a nothing job. I went to a cardiac arrest of this guy, and he was probably not much different to my own age, right? Uh, and I was a dad, obviously, and it was just this absolute cess pit of a place. Like I'm talking a couple of inches of rubbish across the entire floor, like you could not get a clear space of floor to work on the dad. The mum was off doing something, I guess she was grieving, and I'm not trying to, you know, I don't mean to criticize her because everyone grieves in their own way. But this kid was about two years old, and he and she rather is three or four metres from what we're doing, and just standing there watching, and she's got her face is dirty because she's obviously in a shit environment, but she's got these streaks of tears down her cheeks, and I'm trying to compress the chest, and you know, but I can just see her, but I can just hear this haunting cry. And you know, that's an a nothing aspect compared to the things I've all done uh you know I've done and seen, but that one you know stays with me as well because at that time I had my own daughter who was a similar age, and that's where you personalise the job because I can see my daughter, what how would she be if I was on the ground getting worked on and you you relate it to yourself, and that's when the jobs you know stick far too heavily with you. So drugs involved in that house? Or was just I think he jared it probably was, but there wasn't any overt evidence of it. I think he just lived a shit life, you know, didn't look after he was younger than me, and and I was in my 30s at the time, and he just obviously didn't look after himself. Um, but yeah, God, it was a filthy place. But just that haunting cry, she's like just sobbing and saying poor child. Yeah, yeah. And she's saying, like, you know, daddy, like this, like you can still hear it, you know. And when my kids cried in, you know, when they were young like that, you just go back to that job because it sounds the same. Um, so there was like you know, they're not particularly bad experiences in terms of what I've you know, what you see because it's just a regular cardiac arrest. It's the story behind the stories behind a lot of them. Yeah, and it's when you make them relatable. I mean, I've seen bodies that are you know what a you know, a rubbish bin, right? It smells like a Christmas where it's been out in the sun, you know, full of prawn heads and it just fucking stinks from you know half a street away. I went to this one job and it's the worst body I've ever seen, but it was also interesting at the same time. Like um, so it was a heat wave in Adelaide. Adelaide gets really hot 40 plus days in a row, and we got called to this housing trust place where a guy died and his housemate had found him. And you didn't need to go even into like I'm talking beyond the yard, you could smell this guy, and it just smelt like the off bins of Christmas. Um I can smell it now. I know I know the smell, yeah. Yeah, so you go, we go in, go through this gate, and he's got this big ground floor window of this um townhouse type thing, and you can see him in there, and he's on the floor, and he's like thankfully his door is closed, and he's spread spread eagle out on the floor, and his mouth's open, and he's like day's dead, and he's he's starting like he's all those gases of deepening decomposition have started to um he's expand. Yeah, and he's like he looks literally like if you touched him, he would have popped. Um, and this is a dude, this is a human being, right? Um, and flies, I've never seen flies like that before. It was like out of a horror movie, they were coming in his nose, out of his mouth, and it was like a swarm, and you could hear them like a you know, like a Ukraine drone sort of footage, sort of sound, right? Like you could just hear these swarm of flies going everywhere around the house. I didn't even go in, like the police were there, and I'm like, we don't need to, you know, we don't need I don't need to go and see a lot of extensions. I can tell you he's dead. I don't, you know, if you don't want to take my word for it, no stress, you know, you can call a doctor because they they always get a call a doctor for a cause of death before it goes to coroners and stuff. Um, but you know, I was seeing stuff like that all the time, but that's the that's particularly the worst, worst body I can remember. Crazy. Like that swarm of flies is next level.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:54

Yeah, and um I guess injuries, like we're talking you know, yeah. We've all seen the internet and how gory it can get, you know, there's people cut in half or legs cut off and lost limbs, and I'm sure you've rocked up to jobs where you're like, fucking Jesus, don't want to get that.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:16

Yeah, I went to one I and some you become good after a while at filtering, like you know what um, you know, all that we don't need to go and see this one. Went went to an MVA one, like a car, a motor vehicle accident where the person, the lady, she was in in the car, like as in she was the car, the steering wheels in in her thorax, in her chest.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:34

I was gonna ask something like this, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:35

Yeah, so that like you couldn't see where she began and the car ended, like she was just part of the steering wheel and the dash. And you know, same with the body. I don't need to go and touch her, I don't know, she's she's dead, you know. Stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:50

Are there ones uh motor vehicle accidents where you've got to stabilize the the patient in the car? Yeah, obviously I've seen those a million times over the news or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:57

Thousands of them. Um and then it fiery's got to come in. Yeah, chores of life cut them out. Um yeah, I don't want to sound like a weirdo, but I love those jobs. They're they're exciting, you know, and not when someone's hurt or you know, bad, but MVAs are they're a great job when the patient's not too critical because you get to practice all the different skills, you get to give drugs, you get to do all these things, you get to cannulate, um, and you're in the car while it's been cut apart, and it's all you know, there's a lot going on. It's all you know for someone who's like a you know, oh look a squirrel like I am, it's it's exciting, but um, not when someone's hurt.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:29

Yeah, but I I I understand what you're saying.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:32

Yeah, so I really like I really like PBAs and I I always volunteered to be the one in the car. I love to be the one in doing the stuff in the car.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:37

Yeah, of course. Okay, yeah, mate. Fuck. I don't know. I just can't, I just can't fathom, you know. Again, I've been through a lot my life, but I just can't fathom half the stuff that you've done. And Ambos in general, then this is just your story. Every single there's an Ambo probably screaming off to somewhere right now to deal with a dead person or a child or a whatever. And like you said, it's a story, you know, like there's you know, the kids out there with you know cancer and leukemia, and I'm sure you've rocked up to jobs where they've passed away, and like that's got to be tough as well. You know, you see, I see those all over Facebook all the time, and yeah, fuck it cuts me. Like, yeah, for me, oh Jesus Christ, my kids have hurt themselves a couple of times now. My younger daughter, hernia, that fucking pissed me off with the hospitals, yeah. Uh, you know, broken arms, smash of teeth out of everything, and you know, every time my child hurt themselves, I go into an absolute rage. Yeah, some uncontrollable aspect that I go into, and my wife hates it. She goes, and she yeah, fuck. And I'm sure most dads are the same, most mums are the same, or more dads, because I know it must be the testosterone, but again, rocking up to jobs like that where the story is involved, it's gotta just cut.

SPEAKER_07 2:29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:52

It's gotta cut at the heart. You just reminded me of one, actually. Um see you know, that you've got so much in there. Sometimes it just this is what we're like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:00

This is what we were saying earlier. I said that there's gonna be stories that are gonna just pop out.

SPEAKER_06 2:30:04

I'm gonna trigger a few things and you reminded me of like the angry bit is what reminded me of. We went to uh a pregnancy, so a delivery, so I've delivered and this is another like the pediatric cardiac arrest. They're not very common jobs for because most people you you go to a lot of pregnancy jobs, but they deliver in hospital. This is one where we're delivered in in the you know in the field, um, in the ambulance actually. But uh we went to this house and it was the lady, and she was young, young, smoking away on a bong, like in labor, choking away on this bong, like just going crazy on it. She didn't even know, she was so fucking gone, she didn't even know she was in labor. The dad is pacing and he's on some kind of like upper, like amphetamine and meth or something. He's pacing around the room and he's really uh he wasn't aggressive at this point, but he's unpredictable, right? Um, had this dog, mixed breed dog, big dog. Wasn't aggressive. I love dogs, um, wasn't aggressive, but it was fucking annoying because it wanted to be in the situation. Yeah, um, so he kept jumping and it was doing zoomies like at first. It wanted to be on the couch where she was, and we're um, you know, we've got to lay out our equipment and because we're gonna have two patients. So we've got her and we're gonna have the baby. Um, so you've got all these like nice little sterile things, and a maternity kit has all this baby stuff in it. So we're wanting to lay it all out on the thing. We've got rid of the got the guy to get rid of the dog. Um, and anyway, the second crew came and arrived to back us up because you always need two crews because you're gonna have two patients for uh for a delivery. Uh, and I'd laid out all the you know the aspects of the maternity kit on the couch, and it's pretty filthy anyway. The dog comes in when um when the other crews come in, so the dog's been let out again, and the dog just launches himself straight onto the couch and he sends all the contents of the maternity kit everywhere. Um, and they're no good now. Um, because they're amongst all the rubbish-strewn shit floor. The dude loses his shit, and so now we've got this dog that's sort of uh you know rising to the the dude's emotions, and so you've got this angry guy, and you've got this you know unpredictable mixed breed dog just getting in the way, and you don't want to sort of hit him out of the way in case you know he gets and turns on you. So we're like, this place isn't safe, we need to go. And normally we wouldn't, you know, sort of crack take the patient off. You'd try once we're committed to you know that we're doing a delivery, we're doing it here. Um, but it just wasn't a safe space to to bring a baby in. Anyway, we put them in the ambulance and then I was driving because I had I was working with an intern, so you want the intern in the back to get the experience of doing because you're with you know, teams there's two in the back. Anyway, we come around the corner and I hear this, you know, the babies cry, so the baby's been born. Everything seems okay, it's great. So we hand over at the hospital, and um the first thing the mum wanted was another bong. Didn't like they the um midwifes and that are, you know, oh look, you know, here's your baby, right? You know because they got no idea of the backstory. She yeah, she did not give a fuck, couldn't even care that the baby wouldn't even touch it. She just wanted a bong and she was starting to lose her shit because it was obviously wearing off and she wanted another bong. You know, that's crazy. You know, that sort of that's the sort of stuff that annoys me.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:07

There's some shit humans in this world that just do not deserve. And I know a lot of parents out there that can't have kids. Exactly. Good good people that can't have kids, and then these fucking dirt bags, and that that poor kid's out there somewhere just living it no doubt a fucking shit life.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:24

Yeah, I hate to think what yeah, where that kid's ended up.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:27

Fuck if it's alive, yeah. You just don't know. Yeah, fuck, mate.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:31

That yeah. So yeah, you're right, it's the kid, it's the kid stuff and it's the you know, the story behind you know, behind everything that makes it worse. You know, they say um you probably heard the analogy about the bottle, you know, every little experience fills up the bottle. Yep. You know, they say that with ambowers as well, you know, every shit job just puts a little bit more in the bottle, and you know, by the end it only takes something completely insignificant to tip it over.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:56

Also it's like the jack in the box. Yeah. Literally, you're winding it, and then eventually it just it's kind of fucking spring open. That brought me up to two questions. You know, obviously you're talking about this. Uh how many deliveries have you done? Have you done a few?

SPEAKER_06 2:34:08

No, not many. Yeah, uh two or three thereabouts. Home are they just home deliveries or um one was a home one. One was um, it was all good, like great. Um, and it was fuck, it's a good experience. Like it in terms of you know, getting the emotions going and the feelings, it's such a powerful feeling to deliver a baby. Um, but the first one I ever did, uh, you know, the mattress, the mattress looked like she'd already delivered a baby, you know, two years ago on it, and she's just flipped it over. Um, so I'm pretty sure that mattress is probably still in still in use. But um, yeah, just the experience of it is such a such a high, you know, and that's the thing about the job too, you can go from that high to that low in the same day. Or, you know, like you said, yeah, almost in the next job. Like crazy. And you just you get to the end of that job and whatever you're feeling, you park it. All right, we'll deal with that later. And not in a dismissive way, just more like, okay, now we've got to focus because someone else needs All our brain capacity. And so then you're off to the next one.

SPEAKER_03 2:35:06

Yeah. Next question. I'm I'm really uh intrigued in all this now. Uh as I said, I've got a few mates and they always feed me stories here and there, and it's just wild. But second question, let's just say you're rocking up to, and I'm sure there's been scenarios where you've rocked up to a job, motor vehicle accident or whatever, and there's multiple casualties, two ambo's, you've got a triage. That's got to be a fucking hard decision to make, you know.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:29

Yeah. I haven't had to do it in terms of like a life or death. Yep. Um, we do go through a lot of training on triaging and uh like a trick, what they call a triage. You probably heard of it, it's a triage sieven or triage sort. Um, and going through and based on the criteria, you know, whether that guy's expectant and he's gonna die. So you skip him and you go to the next one that you can actually do something with. Um, but I haven't had to do that in real time. Oh, yeah. No, thankfully. Yeah, yeah. That'll be tough. Oh, yeah. I mean, the closest thing to it is that children's decision. But never had to do it in a big multicast sort of scenario. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:36:02

If you're an Ambo out there listening, reach out to me. And if you want to come on the podcast, more than welcome. Let's let's do it. Because again, I I think we need to get some more Ambos on and highlight the you know the brilliant work that Ambos do, because at the end of the day, like far out. The yeah. Uh what else was gonna ask? Mental health uh episodes or scenarios that you've rocked up to. I is that is that a common sh- Yeah, your your facial expression is like fuck.

SPEAKER_06 2:36:31

It's almost like every job. It is, it's every other job. Is it yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:36:35

It's is it drugs involved or is it just mental health in general? No, no, it's both.

SPEAKER_06 2:36:39

It's both. Sometimes it's one or the other, and sometimes it's both combined. A lot a lot of the times you don't know which, like a chicken or the egg, you know, which ones um started. Um, but yeah, it's every other job. It's it way it wears you down. It was part of the reason why I left. It's not definitely not the only reason, but just that monotony of the same sort of work wore like wore me down in the end.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:02

Yeah. Um rocking up to these shit humans. Exactly. Yeah. It's the worst part, isn't it? Yeah. And drugs. Yeah. Fucking hot cheese.

SPEAKER_06 2:37:10

Yeah, it's either, you know, in Adelaide, because that looks there's such a um high proportion of older people which have their own unique problems in terms of workload, but you know, it's either you're off to an older person, you're off to a mental health case, you're off to a drugs and alcohol case, or you know, two of those three in one job.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:29

What are the craziest jobs you've rocked up to? Again, I had one one of my mates was telling me rocked up, and there was this meth guy meth, absolutely nude, but he was just chasing people around the neighborhood with a pillow. I love it. Just trying to hit people like a like a pillow fight, but nude and yeah, awesome. But obviously what came over the radio was a lot of it was for some drunk. Fuck. And what was that, 2006? That might have been me. You know, is there any of those just wild ones you just walk to and be like, holy, I didn't realise I mean, is that just because there's so but it's probably just so many.

SPEAKER_07 2:38:04

Yeah, there is.

SPEAKER_06 2:38:05

I mean, so uh some of I mean one I can think of that I didn't go to, but I've heard about uh you know, a cardiac arrest in a gay club, and so they're working to have a glass floor, this gay club, and there was this uh live male or male orgy going on in full flight underneath the glass floor, and they're doing a cardiac arrest, trying to concentrate on compressing the chest of this guy up the top who's obviously had an arrest um because he's over-exerted himself having a good time. Uh, and you know, they're trying to concentrate on the compressions while they're looking through the floor while this whole massive male or male thing's going on below them. Um so that I didn't see that, but I've been told about that. So that would have been pretty, pretty out there. Um, yeah, druggies do weird, weird things to go back to your story about the drug guys. Um there was one I know of that was trying to inject semen into his veins, his own semen. What? Um yeah, or higher meth. Like they just they just do I don't know, just it takes away any inhibition that they had, any filter, and they just do stuff that is just out of this world to themselves and to other people.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:08

Just don't do meth. That's a hot stuff. Math is bad. Do not do meth. Yeah, fuck, mate.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:15

Yeah, anyway. Uh I guess now we're moving to that period now, you know, we speak about your giving your son a bath and a bit of a splash in the eye with the water, and it just reminds you of that job, and this is where you kind of recognise that there was underlying issues starting to bubble up. It was this showing overtly, was your wife identifying any of this, you know, your sleepless nights or she would she would have been.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:40

Um you know, I think before I became honest with myself about it all, um because you deny, deny, deny, of course. Of course. Like I said we said earlier. Yeah, I and you know, I always hate that you know, this is what I was because I hate hypocrites, but I was a huge hypocrite because you know, at work I was telling, you know, I'd be telling my patients, oh you know, you should go see someone or talk to someone about how you're feeling, you know. But then at the uh you know, save time, I'm parking that at the end of the day and I'm hiding how I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:09

Um coming from the inventory life as well. Was there PTSD when you were going through the inventory?

SPEAKER_06 2:40:15

Yeah, uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:16

Did anyone speak about it? No, God knows. Exactly my fucking point.

SPEAKER_06 2:40:20

But I know so many people that were out after a lot of people, but no one spoke about it. No, no, one of the guys from our section hung himself afterwards. Fucking multiple guys have.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:29

Yeah, but there's no, you know, no one will speak about it. Exactly. No one because it was a a soft thing to do, not to mention you didn't want to get pulled off that job that's the next trip. That was a big part of it, hey. It didn't want to be downgraded. Yeah, you do your med your your your your annual cycle annual cycle, mandatory cycle after a deployment, and they're like, Oh, do you feel sad? Nah, fuck no. Inside you're like, oh geez, that was rough. How much do you drink?

SPEAKER_01 2:40:51

Oh, one beer a week or something, you know. You're drowning yourself. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:59

But uh yeah, as I said, this is where you start identifying underlying issues. Yeah, so mentally.

SPEAKER_07 2:41:06

Yeah, um, I just started it's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 2:41:09

I so I had um, you know, obviously lots of different jobs, but there was two kind of main personas, right? There was the soldier and then there was the ambo, and they're two polar opposite almost, like you know, one's a life taker, one's supposed to be a life preserver. Um, and so I had this real internal conflict in my brain, and a lot of it was self-subconscious. Um, I started churning up having these weird dreams and started churning up things like um, you know, I'd have a dream about Timor. Um, there was a particular incident we haven't even talked about, but um, it doesn't matter, um, where I nearly shot my mate, um, pulled the trigger and everything, um, but had my safety catch on. Um, the two scouts were working in tandem together. Uh, and I I kept having this dream about that incident, but instead of like my section being there, it was ambos, you know, bobbing along with the, you know, and it was all dudes that I worked with. And then, but in the dream I did shoot him, I did kill him. And then, you know, I'm going to work on cardiac arrest, and instead of the ambos, I'm like, where the fuck are all these ambos? Why are they helping me? And it's all of a sudden it's my army section again, you know, and it's all this, you know, standing around judging. And I was having these weird dreams. They were just tripping me out. Uh, and I felt like I was falling apart, but I was just, you know, doing everything I could to try and hide it and and keep it in. Uh, and then, you know, I started to get really depressed about the whole thing, and I started to go down plans of you know, yeah killing myself and all this sort of stuff. And um what's this all 2019, 20-ish? Yeah, two uh pre pre 2020, so it would have been 2019. Yeah. Uh maybe even back into 2018 thereabouts was the start of the decline. Uh, I was diagnosed, so I was only diagnosed at the point where I was willing to accept help, right? So there was probably a lead-in of you know eight months-ish, maybe, of where I was.

SPEAKER_03 2:42:48

So this is a quick turnaround though. This is a a a good six months of having the initial incident with your child uh with the water in the face, and then a couple months in you're all thinking about killing yourself.

SPEAKER_06 2:43:01

Yeah, yeah. Because I'd had other episodes before, um, which we haven't, you know, haven't sort of touched on. So I was diagnosed three times with PTSD, right? Once in 2008, once in 2010, and once in the and the big one in 2019. And the only reason I really took mostly about the 2019 one is because that's when I accepted it. I guess oh wait, they said, Oh, you've got PTSD. I'm like, fuck off. You know, that's all that's a lazy diagnosis. What just be and I'd get angry about it, what, just because I'm a veteran, I must be screwed up. Fuck you. I don't know. Sounds like I don't have PTSD. That's bullshit. You can't, you know. Uh and it was the same in 2010 when they um said it as well. Just I wasn't interested in hearing it because I wasn't ready to accept that maybe I needed to do something about myself. Uh so 2019 was you know when it all came to a head and when I decided uh and it wasn't even the most significant episode really. I think 2008 was 2008 was probably the big one. Um, but then I at some point I just decided, I don't know, it was because of the kids or what, but I had a different purpose than I had the other two times, um, because I didn't have any kids the other two times. So maybe it was just I don't even know what the the final kick in the ass was for me to wake up, but I just decided that it's time to um, you know, it's time to make some calls and actually do something about it and not be a hypocrite.

SPEAKER_03 2:44:12

Yeah, so 2008 you're you were in Afghanistan. Yeah. So you uh sorry, just talk about that uh mental health episodes back in 2008.

SPEAKER_06 2:44:20

Are we talking as extreme as you're talking now? Yeah, so I was uh neck necked myself. Oh yeah, yeah. In uh so on leave from Afghan, and it wasn't anything to do with Afghan. Um it was just a situational crisis, really. Uh, you know, my wife and I split up, we had a you know, relationship breakdown, it's a very common story with like us.

SPEAKER_03 2:44:39

Yeah, in and out of the country, yeah, caring about your own life, no one else's.

SPEAKER_06 2:44:43

Yeah, and I I was, I was a selfish, selfish plug. Um but yeah, so it just life spiraled very quickly on leave, and it was just one of those I wasn't even particularly depressed or anything like that, it was just wrong place, wrong time almost. So we had a bunch of diazepam in the house, and it wasn't my my script, it was just to help like my wife had it to help sleep. And I'm talking, I can't remember if it was a bottle of 50 or 100. Uh, and originally I took it just to sleep. So I took four, I'd had I was on the booze heavy back then. Uh, and so I'd had a couple of bottles of wine and some vodka and stuff, and then I took four, remember it very clearly, took four diazepam uh to just to put myself to sleep, and there was no ill intention, nothing, right? And I've gone gone laid down in bed, and then I've woken up a short time later and I was just like so jittery, just this weird, weird feeling. I was like, Am I having a heart attack or something? And I knew nothing about medicine back then. And um Heath Ledger had just died, you know, from a combination of like diaces and um uh alcohol. Uh and so I thought, fuck, maybe I'm dying, you know, like Keith Ledger, and that's ridiculous now. I know now, like, you know, four diaze poems aren't gonna do anything. Um, even like the you know, 50 or 100 are gonna do anything. Diazopom is not gonna kill you unless you go and hide yourself away for a week and no one's finding you. Yeah. Um, but anyway, I thought I was dying, right? So I thought, well, I might as well do, you know, I don't want to do this half-assed, I don't want to, you know, get found and you know, detained and all this sort of stuff. So I've taken the whole bottle. Every pill, every last pill. Um, and it was I've never had so many pills in my life, right? It's fucking hard to swallow that many pills. So they're falling out of my hands, they're falling out of my mouth, and I'm fishing them out of the sink. And it you've got to take multiple, multiple gulps, you know, goes and gulps of water. It's not just like throw them all in your mouth and swallow them. So it took a while. Um, yeah, and then you know, long story short, was detained and you know, in hospital for a while, and they're like, Oh, you've got PTSD, and I'm no, I haven't, you know, and I just rejected the whole thing. Um, got out and went back to Afghan and just pretended it never happened. I know. Isn't that weird? I pretended, you know, I never told anyone, you know, um, you know, one minute I'm in Afghan, one minute I'm in hospital detained for my mental health, next minute I'm back in Afghan. It's crazy. But yeah, that's just the life I lived back then.

SPEAKER_03 2:46:59

Yeah, fuck mate. Uh oh shit. Where do you go? Where do you go from there? Where do you go from there? Like just the fucking thought process to lay there and go, you know what, I'm just gonna take the whole bottle, fuck it. That enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:47:14

That's it's just that fli I always had I mean, I've always been so flippant, I guess. Not so much now, but impulsive flippant. And everything was just like, fuck it. You know? And I wasn't even I was not a and this is the reason why I talk about it. You have a good sleep after a whole bottle though? Oh yeah, best sleep ever.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:35

Yeah, it is good stuff allegedly.

SPEAKER_06 2:47:37

Yeah. That's the reason I was spoken about it, and I talk about it in the book, I think, is because I was such an atypical case.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:46

You know, there was no like you just you just hit the nail on the head right there. Atypical.

SPEAKER_06 2:47:51

You know, no um, you know, no lead up, no, oh poor me, no Facebook post, you know, no threats, no, you know what I mean? There was no nothing, no other warning sign other than being a piss head, a ridiculous piss head. Um yeah, you wouldn't have known.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:06

It's like fuck if I die, I die, if I wake up, I wake up.

SPEAKER_06 2:48:08

Yeah, I was just completely apathetic to life, to my life, not to anyone else's, but then back to work. Yep. And like, oh whoopsie, that was a silly thing to do. Let's go just pretend that didn't happen, and we'll just go back on back on with the job.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:19

Yeah, and I'm sure there's Ambos cops out there now just going, fuck, I that's that's me. Yep. That's fucking me. Guaranteed. Uh definitely reach out. Um so back to the obviously that current time, 2019, you've gone through this, you know, for the third time. On the on that second time, 2010, was that was it this bad or was that?

SPEAKER_06 2:48:39

Oh eight was a big one. Just more depression, uh so anxiety. No, it was yeah, it was was proper PTSD, and but the reasons were like Jared McKinney was one of my soldiers.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:50

Yeah, was he? Yeah, he was on my trip in 2008, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:48:53

So um fucking great bloke.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:56

Funny dude, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:48:56

Yeah, yeah, I loved him. Um and so when he died, that hit me pretty hard. And because I had been chatting to him in the weeks leading up to him dying, and I'd just come out of Afghan, I'd come out of that area, and uh, you know, he'd tell me he went where he was going to Darrell, Darylwood area, and I'm like, mate, you know, it's there's you'll be fine, there's nothing there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:16

I'd walk through there with you know my bodies and thongs, fucking with 30 Afghans and fucking CIA and shit.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:22

Yeah, it's you know, you'll be fine, mate. You got you know the army and everything else. And and you know, like a month or so later, or cut you know, a couple of weeks later, he's dead, and Dan Kieran's you know got a Victoria Cross from the same area that I've just said, ah, you know, you'll be fine, mate, don't worry about it. So there was that, and then it was a bad time for mates dying. It was a bad year.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:44

10, 11, 12.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:45

Yeah, I lost a lot, a lot of mates that year. Um, a couple of the guys on the circuit I was with um were killed in a plane crash as well. Um they flew in flew into a mountain, uh, two British guys, British paras. Um uh yeah, so it was a tough year. So there was a lot going on, but none of it was you know, it wasn't specifically it was I guess it was another one of those situational things, wasn't it? Yeah. Um yeah, if you're looking up that crash, so Cam Cam Hare.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:12

Oh no, I was just looking at the 6th Battalion loss uh of Buse, Nathan Buse, he was on our trip as well as the driver.

SPEAKER_06 2:50:18

Um Kirby and Dale as well, who I didn't know though, either of those two, but I went to Tom Dale's funeral.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:23

And uh Robert Pope as well.

SPEAKER_06 2:50:25

Yeah, yeah, the losses for six RR, yeah. Yeah, uh it was all within like two two years. Yeah, it was woody because I'd come home not long before that and you know I was doing an ambo where I couldn't have been back there with the army. Sorry, just cool some fuck, I've just cut you off completely.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:40

Sorry, mate. Don't be silly.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:41

I was just thinking about that hilo crash. Someone has spoken about that before. Oh, yeah. The two British guys? Yeah, two British paras, yeah. Yeah, Chris and Dave. Find that podcast. Someone has is friends with them. Yeah, yeah. Was meant to be on that Hilo. Oh, okay. I'm pretty sure. Okay. Someone I've had on the podcast. Yeah, they're good. Another British guy, I'm pretty sure. I'll fucking try and find that one there.

SPEAKER_06 2:51:01

Funny story about that day, one day, fucking legend of a bloke. Um, British para, one from One Parra, um did the invasion of Iraq with One Para and all that. I went on, I went out on leave with him once and he was shit scared of flying. And I had no idea. And we were sitting next to each other on the plane, and he kept we'd gone a little bit of turbulence, and he's kind of grabbing me, and he was always this dude that was real touchy kind of thing, but just you know, like as a as a mate messing around. And I just thought he was goofing off. I'm like, what the f what are you fucking grabbing me for, mate? You know, and then he's like making a and I thought he was just making a show of it, like being scared. He was petrified of flying, and I'd never knew because he was a parrot, like mate, you jump out of planes for a living. Why the and I said to him, we're on the piss ladder that night in Dubai, like, and he told me, he's like, you know, opened up about it and how he's like absolutely petrified. I'm like, mate, why the fuck did you become a parent? And he just wanted to confront his fear, um, and he died in an aviation accident.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:50

Isn't that am I having deja vu here? I don't know. How have I heard this story before? Legit. I've I've 100% heard this story before. Yeah, yeah. Like no word of a lie, exactly the way you've said it from someone else.

SPEAKER_06 2:52:02

Oh, nice. I'd love to know who that is. Wow, yeah, because his brother Carl uh was also one par and also on the circuit.

SPEAKER_03 2:52:08

Wow, I've got to find shit. If there's a listener out there that's listened to all my podcasts, I'm sure you probably know which one it is. Let me know. Let me know. It was a British guy. Yeah, okay. Yeah, right. Uh where were we? Sorry, 2019. So, yeah, back to 2019. We're speaking about 2010 period where it's uh accentuated with all the deaths from the Australian Defence Force, you know, from your past as well. Uh you're linked with some of these guys, and then obviously now moving to 2019 period, you're in Ambo, you're going through issues. Are you still working at the same time? Yeah, so you're still still four on four off, just going through the motions. Still going through the motions, still seeing death, still seeing carnage. Yeah. And I guess the worst part about being the the difference between being an Ambo and everyone else is that generally you're rocking up to a scenario where something's gone wrong. Yeah. You're not just rocking up because to say hello, like you know, cops will rock up and it'll be something that can be sorted. Or fieries will just turn up and there's no death, it's just put out a fire. Yeah. You're rocking up because someone's called because there is an issue.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:13

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:14

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:15

So yeah. Yeah, exactly right. You just every every place you go to, there's some kind of catastrophe. And you can't not take some of that on board. Even just the emotions of the people around, you know, sometimes it's nothing but they're panicking and carrying. Yeah. You know, you you just subconsciously absorb a lot of that.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:31

That little girl, you know, she's dirt all over her face. Just fuck me. That that that just makes me fucking angry. That just just Jesus Christ. Poor kid. Um, fuck, you know, where is that kid? Yeah. There's cheese.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:45

I hate to think things like that, you're just you can't think about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:47

This country's going to fucking shit, mate. We're circling.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:50

I said it earlier, we're circling the drain. We really are. Like every day it feels like we're circling the drain more and more.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:57

Uh well, stay away from political stuff because you got a book to sell. And uh if people want to hear political views, you can jump on debrief episodes that I do and just bring that mic closer. Um sorry for the listeners, just had a quick break. Back to it, it's where we left off. I think we're just talking about 2019 period. You're still working during the day at night on what is it? So shift work is it four days on, four days off, two day, two night, same as the cop type thing. Yep. Uh I'm I'm sure that takes a toll on life as well. You know, that's especially the two night shifts.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:34

That's gotta Oh mate, it um yeah, it definitely wears you down.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:37

Not so much for the fierys because they get to sleep.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:39

Definitely not for the fierys, those bikes love them, but yeah, best assist lifters ever.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:44

But yeah, it's the same for the cops as well. You know, you gotta do two days, two nights, it's just gonna throw your fucking just it can't it can't be healthy.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:52

It can't be healthy. Definitely not healthy. There's enough studies to show that shift work is really bad for you and it takes show shaves years for your life.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:59

But but there's no other way, is there? That's right. There has to be cops and ambos at night and fire's and doctors, nurses, whatever. Yeah, most definitely. That's fuck suck it up.

SPEAKER_06 2:55:11

Yeah, well that that first you know, the first day off is written off. Yeah. It's a sleep day. Yeah, so it's yeah, it's called four and four off, but it's really low. Yeah, you really get only get three off. And then that night before you first go back to work, you don't sleep. You just yeah. You're so wired because you're just thinking about, you know, oh what am I gonna you know, what have I got to do? I've got to do this, and yeah. So you really only get one to two days off in the middle where you might be feeling all right.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:35

Yeah. Just quickly, is has it ever been a day where like nothing's happened? Like not nothing, but it's just always something. Uh there's always something. Or even just an hour where you just go.

SPEAKER_06 2:55:47

Oh, when I started, most definitely, there was um there was times where you'd get a little bit of a little bit of downtime in the early early days, but geez, that was short-lived. That were good days. They were a lot more like fiery days where you, you know, you get a bit of time on stage and you know, it's your shift would start and you wouldn't be straight out. Whereas by the time I left, you know, often you you get there and there's a job waiting for you. Like, you know, you're literally you're not even you might be running late and you haven't had your breakfast and you're chugging, you know, juggling all this stuff and you get there and oh, quick, quick, quick, you've got to get in because there's a priority too, and and you're off and you're like, shit, I haven't even you know brushed my teeth or at my breakfast or definitely not even definitely not mentally prepared. Yeah, yeah, that's that's probably the big thing, isn't it? And then you're looking at the screen, what are we going to again? And you arrive there and you know what what's the job again? You know, and you're like, oh yeah, okay, it's this breathing problems, we'll get the oxygen, you know, because you just you're just not in the game, not in the zone yet.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:40

Yeah, yeah. Now, as we spoke about you're working while you're having these issues, where do you take responsibility or you know, within yourself and go, you know what? Fuck, maybe there is an issue here. Maybe I need to get fixed. Obviously, you got kids, you got a wife, you got a family.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:56

Kids are the biggest um motivator, I guess. That's the biggest reason uh I did it. Um I went so it's definitely not the only reason, but yeah, that was probably the biggest push is like I've got responsibilities now. It's not just me. I can't just you know, if I do and I still had plenty left in the tank, and it's while I'm still working in the in the job now, I've just chosen uh you know an easier way of doing it, so I'm not getting, you know. No night shifts. Yeah, no night shifts and not getting I just flatly refuse to do night shifts now. If the gig is night shifts, then I just don't take it. I'd rather not work. Yeah. I'm the same, mate. I mean mostly. Yeah, yeah. It's it's like that, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:57:34

Um, yeah. So I just uh at some point, I don't know I don't the kids were the motivation, but I don't know what the specific trigger was. I don't know the light bulb moment where I said that's it, I'm gonna do something about it. I just somewhere in there decided uh you know I need to go and see a psych. Uh that was the first step, seeing a psych.

SPEAKER_03 2:57:49

And is this through South Shane Ambows? Like do you go to your boss or do you go external? You kept it this within yourself, did you? Yeah, I kept because you thought that you're gonna get taken off a truck. 100%.

SPEAKER_06 2:57:59

Yeah, yeah. I did nothing. All these avenues are available through the service. Uh they do a good job actually with SA Ambulance of um peer support through uh they have a psychologist on staff and you can go there for free. You know, you can book in and go and see them. Uh so I could have done that, but I didn't want to hate make anything in-house because I was afraid that you know they'd take my job away from me, take my career. Uh so I you know, I did it through through, you know, VVCS initially, the the Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service. So I went through them initially and you know, got went through the psychologist and then to a psychiatrist and you know went from there. And I did a couple of years of of all the you know everything that was available for treatment. And when do you let uh the Ambo service know? Very quickly. Oh, do you do it? Yeah, um, because I just came this the psych, and this is a psychiatrist, um, you know, we just had a pretty frank conversation and he was he was pretty much like you know you can lead a horse to water and you can't make him drink. I was that I was the I was that horse, you know, or I just I knew Sounds like an infantryman. I knew exactly what I needed to do. I just wasn't I needed to be told arrogant.

SPEAKER_07 2:59:03

Um maybe. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's definitely a bit of that, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 2:59:08

Like, um, I don't not um just in so far as like maybe over calculating my abilities, like no, I don't know, I'll be right. I I can you know I can do this, I can do both, I can make it work. Um But he just said, look, you know what you need to do, don't you? You need to you need to leave. And I was like, so yeah, so it came around pretty quickly. I went on I had leave, my ordinary leave blocks, you just slot it into a leave block and it comes when it comes. Uh had my leave and I think it was about a four or five week block, it was the big block. And it came time to go back to work, and I was just like, I don't want to go, yeah, I d I don't want to go back. And I said to my wife, hey, you know, how would you feel you know if I wasn't an Ambo anymore? Because I'd made that agreement, you know, this is my job and this is what I'm I'm not gonna do anything else. And you know, we just talked about it and uh you know decided, yep, let's let's do it, we'll do something else.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:58

Um and so I just moved into the private sector basically, but yeah, and I just want to quickly just break it down before we move into the final part of the podcast. So you let the Ambos know, are they quite receptive of this? They were brilliant, yeah. Because you know, there's other forces where I think there's been issues, especially a lot of cops I've had on. They've spoken to their boss and they've been called soft or whatever, which you know expected back maybe in the early 2000 nineties or whatever, but different times different.

SPEAKER_06 3:00:24

I was so impressed actually. They were they were really good to hear. And I didn't have to even go too hard about how I was feeling. Like I had, you know, I had a pretty detailed, and I haven't talked about this in the book, I had a pretty detailed plan of how to kill myself if I needed to. I had like an out. Uh and it, you know, it centered around drug access and you know, I knew because now I wasn't just some dude, you know, taking a punt with a you know, handful of pills. I knew how to do it properly, and you know, I had a pretty, you know, detailed plan and and had the capacity and the access to the drugs to pull it to pull it off and you know make myself hidden until it had done the job. Um but I didn't need to even go. I thought I would have to divulge all that sort of stuff to them, but I didn't even need to um They didn't care.

SPEAKER_03 3:01:06

Well not not not not in the word not care, but there's like it fuck you could you could almost be going through it. We don't care. We just want we're gonna fix you the way you are now. Regardless.

SPEAKER_06 3:01:16

They took me uh at face value and I just trying to say yeah. And I said, like, um, you know, so I gave him my key and I like so you drug access key. And my my big thing was to get rid of that because I didn't didn't want the temptation. So I've given them the key and just explained, you know, I just said, you know, that's that's it, that's enough. And you know, they ask a little bit. And I had a letter from my psychiatrist which um kind of explained, you know, that there's you know triggers in the workplace and you know, all this sort of stuff, and and they just read it and he just goes, Okay, and that was really it. So yeah. I went on a um I had heaps of leave. So I went on almost a year worth of leave. I had more long service leave, all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 3:01:54

Were they trying to rehabilitate you to get you back out, you know, if you wanted to? Was it was that an option?

SPEAKER_06 3:01:59

There was never really any inquiry made. Like they never asked me and I never um brought it up with them. They were probably leaving it in my court maybe to to initiate it.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:07

That's how it should be, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:02:09

Yeah, I I was really happy, like really content. Not trying to force you out, not trying to get you back in, just they just left me alone. Let it run its course. And if you want to get back in and do it, then do it. If not, if you want to get out, then get out.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:20

And that's pretty much what they did. And then I um there was a couple of times where I thought, oh, maybe I've been too impulsive and in leaving, maybe I've you know declared my hand too early, maybe I should have just taken leave and and then seen how I felt. But um, yeah, all in all, I'm definitely happy I left. Yeah, like no question about it.

SPEAKER_03 3:02:37

Yeah, it was just that time.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:39

Because yeah, because um, you know, I could have gone for another five years, another ten years, but at what cost?

SPEAKER_03 3:02:45

Well, that's it, you don't know, yeah. You you're yeah, fuck dealing with the same scenarios, shitty houses, yeah, kids, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:55

You know, now the cohort I deal with are all much, much different. You know, there's no drugs, there's no alcohol, there's no because it's all private clients, um, you know, mining oil and gas, all these sorts of things. So they're all you know strictly controlled with drug alcohol testing. There's no you know, the the patient load is a lot less, yeah, and it's a much nicer.

SPEAKER_03 3:03:15

Yeah, of course. No green whistle parties. I've been to one, which is awesome. Wasn't in this country. Wasn't a controlled drug in that country that I was in. Just to be clear, in case anyone's listening. Just to be clear, what's in Afghanistan? Uh yeah, right. Um fuck. So basically, and like just mentally, I know for a fact that a lot of guys struggle. First responders, and it's anyone in general, sports stars. Um, you know, if you've been a carpenter for the last 20 years and then you just stopped doing it, did that did that have any effect on you mentally as well? Because obviously you've gone from this high-achieving life from you know, from 1996 through to 2021, you're a forward-facing role on every aspect, even on the war zones. Yeah. Now you've just gone from that to obviously that the corporate side, but it's a lot lower tempo and definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:04:12

Um, I didn't have to go through too much of the loss of identity, which I know sounds weird. I went through it before I left because that was part of the reason why why I held on as long as I did, because I'd always been someone who'd attached my personal identity to my work or my work identity to my personal identity. I was always Dan the Ambo or Dan the you know, whatever. Um, so that's why I hung on, I think, longer than I maybe even should have. Um, I probably could have left a couple of years earlier, really, and to because for a couple of years my motivation was dwindling. Yeah. Um, but that was that identity that made me hang on. I think once I made the decision, it was like I've never gone back in any of the careers. Oh well, gone back to contracting, but different, you know, different projects, different like you know, places. But generally speaking, I haven't gone back to anything. I got once I've made that decision, I'm out and gone. Yep. Um and I think this was this was pretty similar.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:05

So well the Iran war's kicking off, mate. Well, there's some contracting gigs going on. Tell you what, I know a couple of gigs going. We might need a medic. If it it side one, if something like that popped up, yeah. Hey damn, mate. Uh it's Maddie here. Uh we've got this gig, five PSDs. We need we need a medic. We need a paramedic that's qualified in paramedicine. You coming? It's uh$350,000 for an eight-month contract. You coming?

SPEAKER_04 3:05:39

Oh, um, I would definitely listen to it. My wife's probably at home. Sorry, Mrs. O'Neill. Uh he's I need him 350 grand.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:48

Oh, yeah, I would he's got no chances of dying. Oh, well then that sounds like an in. There is a Russian pilot involved, but I've been told there's no rust on this hilo.

SPEAKER_05 3:05:57

He's off the vodka.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:58

He's off the vodka. Yeah, I don't know. Um I know what the inventory mind is like, and I think your life and career has shown um it's showing me what your answer's gonna be. So I'm gonna keep your number in my phone anytime I need a paramedic. Uh yeah, right, mate. So obviously you've you've figured it out, and uh so you it's that 2019 period where you obviously have this full breakdown but full epiphany at the same time where you've it's all that one year you've just straightened it, gone absolutely deep in and then jumped out and gone, fuck, you know what, fuck pull your head in.

SPEAKER_06 3:06:34

Because I think um, you know, because I reflected back on uh you know the 08 and the 2010, um I knew what the rock bottom, like the real rock bottom, looked like after I ate and I got out of that just fine. Um so there was just there's just always I've just always had this level of belief, I guess, or level of confidence that just jump, you'll make it like does it just you'll make it, yeah. And if you don't, you'll you'll figure it out. Like you'll figure it out. Um and I've just always been that way, and it doesn't mean I've done it right, I've done it wrong a lot of times, but it's always worked out.

SPEAKER_03 3:07:07

Yep, exactly right, exactly right. I always have this uh I've always had this, you know, back in the army like pull your head in. Yeah, and I use it with my kids now, pull your head in. And they're like, what? Pull your head in. And it goes through my mind when I'm doing something, like, and my mind will tell me, pull your head in, mate, like pull your fucking head in. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_06 3:07:25

Yeah, yeah, I have that same self- a lot. Yeah, yeah. Like, wind your fucking neck in. What are you doing? Wind your neck in with a fucking knife hand.

SPEAKER_03 3:07:34

Pull your fucking head in, clean your fucking room. Yeah. That's how I was spoken to my white parents. They never said pull your head in there. I was like, it's a millionaire. Off track, yeah. Uh yeah, right. So again, you move into that private world, and how you how are you doing now?

SPEAKER_06 3:07:52

Yeah, good. Um, yeah, you know, I mean, you know what it's like, and from you know, uh your own experiences and through all the people we've had on here. Um, PTSD is non-linear, so you know, it's not like, oh wow, I'm magically cured, I'm suddenly better. Um, you have good days, bad days, you have good moments and bad moments within today. Um, but the key really is not to one, not to give up, but two, just to have that self-belief. You you'll be right, like you'll get through this, just like everything else, you know. Um and some days, some days I've just had enough. I don't want to be don't want to be part of it, you know what I mean. Not had enough as in I'm gonna kill myself. I don't have any any thoughts or any issues like that.

SPEAKER_04 3:08:30

No more diaze of pam.

SPEAKER_06 3:08:31

No issues like that since. Yeah. Um, but some days you're just like, nah, fuck the world, I don't want anything to do with it. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 3:08:38

I'm like, I know Especially in this current climate, you just really just go, you know what, fuck it. I'm staying home playing Call of Duty all day. Exactly. I'm like my own little insular world and that's it.

SPEAKER_06 3:08:47

Yeah, I need a me day.

SPEAKER_03 3:08:49

100%. And I that's that I think that's one of the biggest things out there for people. Take a day off, take a sicky, stay home, watch fucking the notebook all day long, eat some popcorn, you know what I mean? Just have it have a U day. Turn your phone off. Yep. No social media, no nothing. Just have a U Day.

SPEAKER_08 3:09:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 3:09:04

Call of Duty and fucking yeah. That's what that's what I do. That's my getaway is literally either going away hunting or um call of duty. Yeah, nice. Put the headset on and tell kids their their their shit.

SPEAKER_05 3:09:19

You call that a headshot.

SPEAKER_03 3:09:21

But uh yeah, no, that I think I think that works absolute wonders. And you've got to look at it too. Like social media is just a killer these days, isn't it? Like it's just nothing but just hate on there. Like someone called me gross the other day, and it was just because of an opinion. It's like, this isn't my platform my opinion. So shut your mouth. Like, too bad. Make your own platform and you can share your opinions, yeah. But just relax on the hate on everything. It's yeah, yeah, you can't. Except for the government. Oh, anyway. Yeah, we'll go I'll stay off that. We'll stay off that. But that's different, you know, that's different. But yeah, everyone just hates everyone at the moment, and there's war and fucking druggos everywhere, and we're pretty divided, aren't we? Yeah, it's more than ever. It's scary. It is, it is really scary, and not for us because we'll be dead in 10, 15, 20 years. Yep. It's the poor younger ones that are they're gonna have to live through whatever the zombie apocalypse, which will also be fun.

SPEAKER_05 3:10:16

Gotta hang on for that one, actually.

SPEAKER_03 3:10:18

Just speaking of that, uh when you were talking about that helicopter landing into that compound. I was just in my mind, I just went straight to a zombie apocalypse. I thought, fuck, maybe he's gonna try and fly it. Did you ever think about going, fuck this? Maybe I can fly this. No. I do it all the time. Can't be that too hard, that that hard to fly a fucking helicopter. Surely I don't know. I'm just jumping there. I've done it on Call of Duty many times. Sure, it's easy.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:40

Yeah, sure, it's easy. It's a couple of sticks here and there. Yeah, a couple of feet here. I'm too unko to fly.

SPEAKER_06 3:10:46

I really not a helicopter, way too unko.

SPEAKER_03 3:10:49

Yeah, um, yeah, as I said, mate, you've obviously moved into that uh that private space now, and everything's hum along fine. And obviously now just grab the book, back to the book. All the dumb things, soldier fed contractor, Ambo, Daniel O'Neal. And basically, that just pretty much just sums up pretty much everything we've just spoken about today, really. Basically, yeah, yep, yeah. Um there. Yeah, there's a couple of photos in the middle. Oh, look at this one. Oh, a little uh RAM uh hat badge on 1997 Kapuka. Look at it.

SPEAKER_05 3:11:27

That's like me too.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:28

Like it was just skinny, yeah, toothpick arms.

SPEAKER_06 3:11:31

Yeah, I was a most granny little kid.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:33

Uh oh yeah, T M all photo. Oh, here's one. So did you get the rank sergeant?

SPEAKER_06 3:11:41

Oh no, that's a yeah, it's a like kitty cadet rank. Uh, yeah, like an officer cadet rank. It's not a real rank, but it's a rank within RMC. Kitty cadets.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:50

Here's the contracting ones. Yeah, that's all of this AK 47. Oh, folding stock as well. That was my that was my go-to in baggers.

SPEAKER_08 3:12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:00

I love the folding stock. If you just take it anywhere, yeah. This is yeah, I'm definitely gonna read this. Oh, here you go. There's for the listener, definitely grab the book. There's a whole bunch of good cool photos in here. I'll grab a couple and put them up on the Instagram in front of a tank. There's that red and blue white helicopter. No rust on that one. That one actually looks little.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:19

No, it's pretty shiny, actually. It looked pretty good for the bottom. It does look good in a black and white as well.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:23

There you go. Uh marijuana crop crop. Duraiwood. Yeah. Yeah. And they were thick, those crops. Weren't they ever? Was that was that the one where you're is that the contracting one? Yeah, yeah. So that's just you with 30 Afghans or 15 Afghans and 16 or so, yeah. You know, air quote Yank CIA, he reckons he's retired, whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:12:47

Do they ever retire? But yeah, he was um, yeah, ex. Yeah, very ex.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:51

But yeah, when you look at this, do you feel like this is the life you lived?

SPEAKER_06 3:12:56

Doesn't feel doesn't feel like me. It's almost like a different I w almost like I became a different person. I do that.

SPEAKER_03 3:13:02

I look back at some of my photos and you know, some of the photos I got up on Instagram, I was like, fuck shit. That was actually me. Yeah. That was actually me. Yeah, I can relate to that, that whole process. Yeah. And I forget you forget a lot of the like you did, and like you forget a lot of the stories. But that's gotta be cool too, being in Amber and rocking around with an ICB mad dog.

SPEAKER_06 3:13:23

I only ever wore it on a hands like day, I think. I wore it once on my uniform.

SPEAKER_04 3:13:26

You just wear it everywhere. We just get too many questions. Yeah, it's really like what's that badge for? Is that a scout badge? Scouts on it.

SPEAKER_06 3:13:34

Then you get all you know, it's it just becomes this trigger for druggies and stuff to have a crack at you. Oh, do they? Oh mate, yeah, yeah. What are you wearing that for? Oh, it's you know, it's mine, right? I I remember I had one um fun druggie. Um he was going off his nana at me in the back of the ambulance. He's all restrained and everything. And I did, it was must have been an Anzac day because I had my my like ribbon bar on that.

SPEAKER_07 3:13:54

And he's like, you know, what's that for? And I'm like, Oh, I was in the army. He's like, Fuck off, you weren't in the army, you look like a teacher, you poof.

SPEAKER_05 3:14:00

He's like just giving it to me. I'm like, what? I'm just I'm just sitting here, you know?

SPEAKER_03 3:14:04

Like you look like a teacher, you're puffed. Oh, I love Australians, yeah. I know. And obviously, just quickly, there's a picture here of you and your old boy. Is it is sorry, did you say old boy still alive?

SPEAKER_06 3:14:16

No, he's dead. Yeah, he died two, maybe two years ago, roughly. Um, yeah, pretty, pretty um what's the word? Like undignified end for someone who did so well early on. Um, you know, dementia and at a pretty young age is like, mate.

SPEAKER_03 3:14:31

Late wild, isn't it? Oh, it's crazy. This is a crazy disease.

SPEAKER_06 3:14:35

Yeah, he was he was dead within only a couple of years of di being died. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a it was a fast end.

SPEAKER_03 3:14:41

Yeah, it's just a fuck, it's madness, isn't it? Yeah, look at there you go. He's got the old uh this is night circuit 1980, so he's got the old Bill Gates style hairstyle, you know, the collared shirt and the yeah. That's awesome. Uh definitely for the listener out there, Jeff, definitely jump on. Where can they find this book?

SPEAKER_06 3:15:02

Um, yeah, so you can buy it pretty much anywhere online. Uh all the major retailers, you know, Amazon, Apple, Booktopia, Dimmix, everywhere. Um, or you can get it from my website and I'll send you a personal message and sign it and stuff like that. It's the best place to get it is www.allthedumbthingsbook.com, which is my personal site. Straight to your personal site, yep. Uh and Instagram, obviously. Yeah, so I'm available on Instagram, Facebook. Um, you know, I put footage up of you know being overseas and stuff like that and the old reel or meme and that every now and then.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:31

Yeah, all right. Well it's gonna be my uh next reading. I'll definitely read it. It's uh sick photo on the front too. What's that was a PKM or something on there?

SPEAKER_06 3:15:39

Uh yeah, it was a PK, yeah, yeah. So they were the gun trucks, you know, we'd have sort of front and rear. I never stood up there like that.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:45

Like I said earlier, that hat. That's a major league door kicker for the listeners out there. It was all the rage back then, the major league door kicker hat and shirts and everything swinging around. Awesome. Contractor life. Uh yeah, right, mate. Uh all right. Well, I guess, you know, I can't chew too much of your time. You've got to get on a flight back down uh Adelaide. Yeah, miserable wet Adelaide. Is it raining down there?

SPEAKER_05 3:16:07

Oh, it was when I left, mate. It was terrible weather.

SPEAKER_03 3:16:09

It's a sad place. I do have to get down there. I do have to get down there eventually. Uh see a couple of people. But I appreciate you coming up, mate, and uh jumping on the potty and sharing your story. And I guess we'll tie it off with a couple of final questions, mate. Uh first question what advice can you give to people just to keep on keeping on, complete any goal they set their mind to, and just to crush it in life and overcome, you know, just to add on to that, overcome any adversities like mental health issues that you you know what worked for you?

SPEAKER_06 3:16:39

Yeah, um well, I I think probably first of all, say I'm in no place to give anyone advice after all the dumb things I've done, but all the dumb things little boom boom. Um yeah, but okay, so if I want if I wanted my kids to take anything away from my story, um it was just to be that you're never stuck. Um maybe you don't need to do it the way I did it and jump at every little opportunity, but if you don't like your job, if you don't like your relationship, uh you're unhappy in life, you don't have to just slug it out. Um, life's not meant to be spent in purgatory, you know, you can change your circumstances, and it doesn't matter how dire they seem, uh you know, or a living example, you can definitely change it. Um don't just sit there idle and suck it up for the rest of your life. Make a change.

SPEAKER_03 3:17:26

Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. Uh and you know, for the younger listeners out there, just uh ask for advice. Yeah, like I think that's one of the biggest makes mistakes I personally me too. You know, I didn't really I lived in Sydney in the military and was away from my father and family and stuff, or because everyone's up in Brisbane. There's really no one to lean on to. So just reach out to someone, reach out to your mate, just ask for advice, ask your corporal, ask your sergeant. Same for the police. I know it's a no rank structure in the Ambos, really, it's just paramedic and basically, yeah. Ask I don't know, you station off. Is there a station officer?

SPEAKER_06 3:18:01

No, we don't say, but you have mentors, you have a team leader and established like questions, ask advice.

SPEAKER_03 3:18:07

Do you reckon I should do this or do that or whatever? And obviously for the mental health stuff, like just I don't know, figure it out. Talk to someone.

SPEAKER_06 3:18:14

Definitely don't suck it up though.

SPEAKER_03 3:18:16

Definitely don't don't suck it up. It's just gonna compile, move on. Yep. If you think it's gonna take too much, get out of the job, find something else, like you did.

SPEAKER_06 3:18:24

Yeah, the job's like a machine, isn't it? And it's the same, but it doesn't matter which service, they are a machine, and they will function whether you're there or not.

SPEAKER_03 3:18:31

100 per that's the biggest thing is that they will function without you. Don't think that you're not indispensable. You're the cog that's gonna displace it all, you're indispensable, you're just a number. Not not like saying you're just a number, but you are, yeah. You are to the machine. You are, yeah, exactly right. The governmental machine. It's crashing and burning, it's like it's like a rusty fucking helicopter with a drunk Russian pilot, except that's Albanese. Um, second question, mate. What scares you most in life?

SPEAKER_04 3:19:10

Oh man. Anything that happens to my kids, I guess. Did you? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:19:17

I'm the same. I yeah, I reckon we're probably very similar. I fear for the world, um, you know, without getting too bunkered down into it, but I fear for the world. Um I do. It's pretty dire, and like we said, it doesn't affect us too much because we'll be gone by the time it comes around to you know to paying up and having the consequences, but our kids will be there. So I do fear a bit for the world that they will inherit. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:19:42

Just try and give the kids, your kids, the best opportunities possible. And fuck again, we go back to some of your stories where some of those kids you his houses, and I'm sure this cops are the same thing, and fires have rocked up the sh houses. Fuck, just feel for those kids. Yeah, like they're just brought up. I saw you know, drive obviously driving around Newcastle. I saw one the other day, just no shoes, ripped shirt, and the mother was just smoking a darry, like pushing the pram. I'm like, fuck.

SPEAKER_04 3:20:11

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 3:20:11

This kid's just got no hope in life. Like you almost just want to grab the kid and just fuck, give him a better life, you know, like it, yeah. Oh man, fucking works me sometimes. Yeah, man. Um third question. Now tell us something about you that people don't know. Guilty obsession. I'm a nuffy for footy for football.

SPEAKER_06 3:20:30

The Aussie rules. Um absolute, absolute naffy now. Soft nuffy. Um GayFL. But I like I like Aussie rules better.

SPEAKER_03 3:20:38

Yeah, no, it is an Adelaide thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 3:20:40

It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm a I'm a full nuffy um actually.

SPEAKER_03 3:20:43

Are they crows?

SPEAKER_06 3:20:44

No, that's wash your mouth out, that's horrible. Yeah, yeah, cast. That's all I know, really. So Port A Port Adelaide. Port LA, that's the other one, yeah. Um yeah, so I'm a bit of a tragic for them and everything that's going on with them. So um but Die Hard. Yeah, die hard, yeah. Um big controversy at the moment because our best player, star player, just got on report and was in the tribunal. So there should be some news actually when I finish this of how he's gone at the whether they're gonna appeal or not. So yeah, it's all a conspiracy.

SPEAKER_03 3:21:09

Oh, all those sports. The umpire was wrong. All those sports have gone soft. Oh, mate. Like it's just you may as well play touch football now. Yeah. It's 2026. There's 30 toilets now. If you get my drift, that's how soft the sports are getting. Uh, yeah, right. Anything else? Any foods or anything? Um, I've got a shocking sweet tooth. Have you? Yeah. Chocolate. Chocolate.

SPEAKER_06 3:21:33

Love chocolate.

SPEAKER_03 3:21:34

What type of chocolate?

SPEAKER_06 3:21:35

Uh, just cadry. Just you mean like what you mean? Just got dairy. No, no, no. Dairy looks a bit plain. I'll eat it, don't get me wrong, but a bit plain.

SPEAKER_03 3:21:43

Uh I was smashing in the chocolate last night. There's we got tons in our pantry from uh Easter, obviously. Yeah, and the kids they've kind of moved off it already, so I've turned into the vacuum now. It's up to me. It's up to me to defend the house it off and finish it off. Yeah, I've been smashing it later. I was playing Call of Duty last night, I had about 30 eggs, and I felt just disgusting.

SPEAKER_06 3:22:05

But I like the um caramelk. If I was gonna choose one, it'd probably be like the you know the is that the marvelous like with the caramelk on. Yeah, tops. I'm gonna go block after this.

SPEAKER_04 3:22:15

It's expensive, then eight bucks a five.

SPEAKER_06 3:22:18

Isn't it ridiculous?

SPEAKER_04 3:22:18

And it's gotten smaller. 2026, yeah. Albanese, sort your shit out and get the taco prices down.

SPEAKER_03 3:22:27

I'm gonna fucking ride. Uh mate's movie, movie TV show. What are you uh what are you watching? There's an Ambo one out there now, isn't it? They call it Life. Oh, I don't know. Haven't you seen that Ambo one? Yeah, there's an Ambo one where they do it's like Oh like a DOCO kind of one. Yeah, it's like the highway patrol one where they just do ride-alongs with Ambos. It might be old, but I know it's always on TV. I do watch it. Yeah.

unknown 3:22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:22:51

I don't um I know I think I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 3:22:53

Uh bit watered down, but obviously.

SPEAKER_06 3:22:55

Yeah, nah. Haven't bothered watching that one. Uh favourite movie though. I don't watch a lot of TV, to be honest, unless it's sport. Um movies though, um Platoon. Oh, yeah, like all the old school ones. Um any of that comedy fun genre like Ben Stiller, you know, like dodgeball, um Tropic Thunder. Yeah, all that, yeah, yeah. All that kind of, you know, dodgeball, um, wedding crashes, anchor man, those sort of love those sort of ones. Um Happy Gilmore was a great one, Adam Sandler. How good is it? Yeah, love it. Classic. Yeah, classics. Yeah, I like the older ones.

SPEAKER_03 3:23:25

Yeah, well, it was a bit more well, no one cared. Like, look, look at Tropic Thunder. At a white dude playing a black dude.

SPEAKER_06 3:23:33

It's hilarious, you know. Back when they actually thought up stories and you know, dialogue and stuff, now they just recreate some AI bullshit, yeah. Yeah, rubbish, rubbish.

SPEAKER_03 3:23:44

Albo, switch on, mate. Make movies better, it's your fault. Uh, mate's music, what do you listen to?

SPEAKER_06 3:23:53

Older stuff as well. Um 90s punk rock is oh yeah, yeah. I don't listen to a lot of music, but um, if I'm on my own favourite song, actually isn't 90s punk rock though, it's um MM Lose Yourself. Is it? Yeah, yeah, always a good song, yeah. Good song, always sort of Gs you up, but yeah. Um my son, who's nine. Sorry, my son who's nine listens in the car Akadaka. Oh, does he? Yeah, he's crazy. Um and Guns and Roses, he loves Paradise. Yeah, and um Welcome to the Jungle, he loves those.

SPEAKER_03 3:24:21

So yeah, we're just 100% drawing the infantry.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:24

Oh god, hope not. My wife's gonna kill me.

SPEAKER_03 3:24:28

It's in his blood, mate.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:29

As soon as he's played Gunners, yeah. No, he loves it, loves gunners, and he calls it Akadaka too. And it's just when him, he and I are in the car, not when the girls are in the car, but he uh he wants Dad, can we put Thunderstruck on? Is always one of his big ones.

SPEAKER_03 3:24:39

Yeah, what's your daughter? How old? So how old?

SPEAKER_06 3:24:41

She's 14, nearly 15.

SPEAKER_03 3:24:42

Oh, so she I was about to say she's not listening to what Sabrina Carpenter.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:46

She listens to just all the new, yeah, whatever the new stuff. I don't know if she really have it, but um, she knows all the words, it's amazing. She doesn't have it playing much, but you know, something will come on the radio that I've never heard before.

SPEAKER_03 3:24:55

My kids are the same though, they're every word. TikTok and YouTube. Yeah, yeah, YouTube and TikTok. Yeah. Cancerous that stuff. It's it's good though. I watch it every night on YouTube. My wife hates it. Because kids are just like you, all they do is watch YouTube. I said, Yeah, that's pretty much me. Learn how to fix things, how how tuna is made, you know, in cans. Do you know how that's no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 3:25:18

Watch YouTube. I'm gonna look it up.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:20

How things are made. That's one of my favourite shows on YouTube. It'll tell you everything how to make spam. Spam I've I'll go in some wild, you know, rabbit holes on YouTube. It's a YouTube rabbit hole. Yeah, uh, mate again. Uh appreciate you coming on the podcast. All the dumb things. You can jump onto the website, all the dumbthings.com.

SPEAKER_06 3:25:41

Yep. Uh all the dumb things book. Yep. Book, yeah, yeah.com.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:45

No, just dot com.com. Yeah. Jump on Instagram, same thing. Search all up, grab a book, grab a copy. This was epic, epic, mate. Appreciate you coming on, sharing the story. You know, more specifically, the life of an ambo. Because again, this is the first time we've had someone on to explain the life. And like I said, if someone's calling the ambos, it's generally not a good scenario at the end of it, at the end of that phone call. Generally, unless it's you know obviously a birth, which is always an exciting thing. But like you said, there's scenarios where that they can even turn with multiple times, yeah. So appreciate, mate.

SPEAKER_06 3:26:20

Thank you for having me on, mate. It's been a privilege. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:26:22

Let's get this out and uh if you want to reach out, yeah, reach out to him or reach out to me and I can pass any messages on. Yep, sounds great. Awesome, mate. Appreciate it.