Ep. 250 Jason Hiscox State Emergency Service Vertical Rescue Operator

SPEAKER_00 0:12

It's time for the Zero Limits Podcast, hosted by Australian veterans. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world, we'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the beginning to complete any goal you send your money to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Zero Limits Listeners on today's Zero Linux Podcast in the Newcastle studio, joined by a bloke. This one's uh this one's this one's gonna be crazy because I've in short, he spent 12 years in the STS, not the SAS, the SDS. And he reached out through social media, we had a little chat, and his story is absolutely wild. When he speaks about the SDS and what he does in his region, uh more specifically Coff's Harbour, I didn't realise how involved the SES were in motor vehicle accidents or first responding to scenes, et cetera, uh, which we'll definitely talk about. I knew we don't really see that too much here in uh Newcastle and I guess the city areas, uh, as we have fire rescue and water police and police rescue, whereas those remote, you know, I wouldn't say remote cough starters remote, but it is a regional area. So they rely a lot on these volunteers to respond to uh motor vehicle accidents when you know when the uh a death could be involved, and it's absolutely wild. But the reason why he reached out initially there's a there's a question I generally ask at the end of a podcast, and it's uh you know, what what what do you fear most in life? And you know, a lot of us, uh including myself, is you know, losing a child. And he reached out and he goes, mate, like I've lost a child. And it's while I was doing some SES stuff and which we'll talk about because this it's just it was when I read the message uh mate, it it it did cut me and uh was yeah, so but back to his story, not only did he join the SES, now he's working for TACMed as a consultant, uh which he has for the last uh few years now, which we'll talk about. But he's growing up his younger days, absolute delinquent in trouble with the police, guns, drugs, everything from the age of 14, 15, 16, and just onwards. And then obviously in 2012 we joined the SES, had a child as well, which absolutely just changed the course of his life. Mate, Jason Hiscoff, how you doing, mate? Yeah, like I said, you've got you know, when you reached out, it was just it was mind-blowing. Obviously, the story about your son uh was touching, but also just your life in general, how you know you were started off as you know in that delinquent stage of being a kid, but you took it to the next level where you were getting in trouble with the police, doing drugs, there were guns involved, you know, which we'll talk about in a story, and you could have ended up in two ways for you either dead or in prison for the rest of your life, yeah, uh, which we'll talk about. And then obviously, like you said, you had a child join the SES, and I guess you found some purpose, and then you spent 12 years in the SES, and the stories that you're telling me, even just with the floods and stuff, and you know, responding, and you end up becoming part of one of the rescue guys, uh part of the rescue squad. So you'd be sent out to do some vertical rescues over cliffs and as volunteers. And this is the craziest part. As volunteers, you went there knowing you were not going to get a cent for it. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Which is wild. Yep. Not not a cent. A couple of qualifications, but cup of tea and a cup of tea. Scotch fingers.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

That's about it. It's it's just mad. It w which we'll talk again, we'll talk about because I'm pretty pretty, you know, I guess you look at the government these days, we won't go too political because I don't know your your new job probably uh fuck it.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Let's go. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

It's just more, you know, like we spend so much money on all this rubbish, you know, for example, Melbourne with the the machete bins, $13 million, where that could go to the STS, you know, uh a part-time unit that what they should establish and have, you know, because again, we see these SES guys out every time there's a a fire or a a crime scene that they need, you know, looking for evidence or floods, more example. Like that's on the East Coast here. That's all we experience every couple years is a major flood. So and who's filling the sandbags? Volunteers of all people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, and uh I guess not everybody knows what we do. People see us as the flood guys or the the roof topers. I've even had people ask me, Oh, how are the fires going? Right, we don't do fire, that's RFS. Our stuff predominantly is storm and water damage, yes, but units like Coughs Harbour rescue. And that's that's something that people don't don't really get to see.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Exactly right. And I did I didn't realise it there wasn't like an actual unit of you know fully qualified rescue operators like yourself.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, and and guys have been there for 20 years doing this 20 plus years. And not a cent. Not a cent. Not a cent. And and guys leave their jobs, their day jobs when call-outs happen to go and do these things. And not a cent. Not a cent. Some some businesses around town are good, they'll continue to pay their goods. Of course, yeah. Um, but for me as a business owner, when I was doing it, my pay stops when I leave.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

And it's all to volunteer for the Australian government or you know, for the state governments.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Uh yeah, for the community.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

For the community. For the community first.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Uh yeah, but for the government, because they're too tight to pay for the right people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

And I'll contribute to the community if I get paid for it. You know what I mean? But and it's not because I'm an arsehole, it's because I've got mouths to feed at home, you know, like everybody. You know, there's interest rates going up every second week now. So, you know, we we've all got bills to pay, and yeah, it's just madness. We'll we'll we'll definitely talk about it. But um, like I said, uh, you know, this is uh a bit of a an alternate podcast compared to obviously what I've done in the past with you know SASR operators or commandos or you know, cops and fieries, etc. and real heroes. No, mate. Tell you what, I think once we get into some of your stories, you'll people go far out. That's that's pretty wild. And like I say, everyone's got a story, and you've got a different story, but we'll definitely start off with those younger days, mate. 1987, born in Coffs Harbour, and that's where it began.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

That's where it began, yeah. Uh born in Coff's Harbour. Uh lived a pretty good childhood, really. Um have three uh two sisters, sorry. One that's a bit older, fought like fuck as usual.

SPEAKER_06 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

But uh yeah, went to Catholic primary school, and I guess really from day one, uh I knew that I was different to to most other kids. First day I I remember my parents, I still remember this. My parents dropped me off, did the introduction, walked into kindergarten, freaked out, jumped out the window, gone, ran away. Jumped out the window.

SPEAKER_08 7:26

How old are you like five?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, I would have been like, yeah, probably five years old. And uh from there, yeah, that's that's really where it became. That's when they knew. That's when they knew, yeah, this kid's gonna get out.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

And sorry, your parents, what what are they doing for a crust?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

My old man was a builder.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Um yeah, he's sort of he's still doing a little bit of building now. Um mum just had random jobs throughout her life. She was more the stay-at-home mum, looked after us kids. And your siblings? Um, my sister, my big sister, she's what's she doing now?

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Oh, just I guess how were they compared to you? I've said you were.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Oh, they were completely different. Yeah, my big sister was like nothing like that. Just a good kid. Just a good kid, yeah. She's just a just a normal kid. And but I don't I don't really remember too much what she was like. I just remember we used to fight. We weren't really close when I was young. Yeah, yeah. We got closer, sort of. Just typical siblings. Typical siblings, yeah. Um my little sister's ten years younger than me, so the first ten years of my my life, she was non-existent. But um yeah, we we we don't really talk much. Me and my little sister, she's out doing her own thing. Yeah, I'm doing my own thing. Yeah, schooling schooling for me was pretty wild my primary school years. And once I sort of hit that 9-10 was when I really turned it up in in behavioural, negative behaviours. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

And this is this is a Catholic school too, so you think it'll be a bit stricter in ways. Were there other kids like that as well?

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Not really, not that I remember. There was like I was the standout idiot, basically. Was it ADHD? Yeah, yeah, and and and back then ADHD wasn't a thing.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

It was only the red-headed kid.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah, it's that red-headed kid there. He's 100% crazy. Yeah, what's that guy? Yeah, he's got it.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

He's up on a roof, like front. We had yeah, we had one kid who was on a roof, and it was just every day he'd just throw pens and get books and off the roof, and like, oh man. And it was like, Oh, he's got AD ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

That was me, man. Oh, was it? That was me. I was that kid. I was that kid. Be told to do something. No, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'm doing the total opposite of what you've just asked me to do. Um, yeah, and it was about that nine, ten years old when my parents were like, we need to do something, we need to intervene here. And uh took me to the pediatrician, and and that was like I said, when ADHD was sort of first being discovered. And um yeah, I spent the next oh, five or six years in and out of doctors and pediatricians. Once I reached high school, hit puberty, that that was next level again. Uh engaging in all that risky behaviour, just trying to get us real, you know, trying to do anything I could to piss someone off or just be as defiant as possible. And I I remember once I hit high school, it was about year year seven, year seven or year eight, we had a uh a meeting with all these so-called experts, uh global experts on ADHD come to my high school. There was two of us, me and one of my really good mates, and we were the test subjects, and they uh decided that I was in the top two percent globally for ADHD. Yeah, right. So one of the highest cases at the time that they'd experienced.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

So meanwhile, he up on the roof throwing stuff off.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

They're like, there he is, that's him. Well, it was that bad that in year eight they started a program for me where I only had to do school four days a week. Every Wednesday I would have off to go and work on a job site because I was like, Oh, seriously, because just to break up the schooling week, it was like a troll programme like you suck at school, you're not the I didn't even take a school bag, or if I did, it just it had nothing in it. And I ADHD kids they tend not to eat, so I didn't eat much, I would not eat breakfast. You might get a pie or something from the canteen at recess, and then obviously your behaviour just goes wild from there. So pretty wild times at high school.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

So, as you said, you had that Wednesday to go work. What were we doing?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I was building. I was building I was actually yeah, with my old man.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Oh, because he yeah, he's in the industry, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, and it it's so funny. At the time, uh they were doing renovations at my high school, uh again, another Catholic school, and uh I remember the first time a teacher saw me there and I'm in it in a hole digging shit or cutting shit, and they're like, What are you doing? Why aren't you in the school uniform? Why aren't you in class? Well, fuck off, dickhead. I'm working here. No, you're not. I'm like, yeah, man, like I've got work to do, leave me alone. I've got work to do. This little 13-year-old kid telling the teacher, I've got work to do, man. Get a job, get a job, yeah, get a real job.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

See how dirty my hands are? Yeah, right. So you're doing that. How did that go with the ADHD? Did you find that that's what I needed? Is it there you go? That's why I needed it. Because I've heard this a lot.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, I schooling was not for me. Schooling is very one size fits all. Of course, yeah. And it doesn't take into account kids like me who need to be active. Like the schoolwork to me was boring. So I never applied myself. I never I never tried in anything. I always seemed to go really well, especially in things like mathematics. Um just from that active mind, I suppose. Uh problem solving. But yeah, schooling, not so great. Left very early, left, you know, first term of year ten. The uh my parents had a meeting with the school and they decided it was best that I move on in life.

SPEAKER_06 13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

But the deal that it was quite good on my parents' behalf uh and the school, they let me stay enrolled. And the deal was if I leave, I come back at the end of the year and sit my school certificate exams. So I stay enrolled essentially. I'm still at school. I I I get a school certificate at the end of it at a minimum. But uh that didn't work out so well.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

You start working at the age of you know 14 as a carpenter, but I guess this is where the worst part is that you're gonna be working around adults. Yes, and young adults, 18, 19, and we know for a fact that 18, 19 year olds are into drugs and drinking on the weekend and chasing birds, and obviously you know you're 14, hearing these guys talk about you, um, ears prick up, ADHD. I'm like, oh fuck, maybe I shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, and there's a part I'm there's a part I'm missing. And you've got money now, and I've got money as a 14-year-old. As a 14-year-old, and I had money before that because uh like I'd work weekends or school holidays. If I could get on a job site in school holidays, I would do that. And my neighbour was a painter legend, he he offered me work whenever I wanted it. Um, another guy who's a really good mate of mine now, who was my boss back then. I remember I got suspended from school, and I just turned up on his job site one morning and he's like, What the hell are you doing here? I said, I've just got suspended from school, am I right to work? And he's like, Yep, you definitely get straight into it. And that that's what I was offered as a young guy. And from a young age, I had next door neighbours who who were a few years older than me, probably five or six years older than me, and they were massive stoners. So as a kid, like 10-11 years old, I remember coming home, I'd walk in the driveway, just throw my school bag up on the veranda and just go straight into their house, just walk in the back door, and and they'd be there with a bowl of weed chopping up and smoking bongs. And there's me, like, fuck, what's that? That is that magic? Like, what's that smoke bubbling off the water there? This looks cool, and then you know, that was my introduction to it. So I'm growing up thinking the world of these guys, like they were my idols. Like, I want to be just like you, and yeah, lo and behold, but worse, but worse, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely, definitely got a bit worse.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

Yeah, well, different times too. This is uh what mid-90s mid-90s, mid-90s, scrunch scenes in silver chairs playing, silver chair, yeah, yeah, exactly. Man, that's the same area I grew up in in the living. It was different times, yeah. The living oh fuck it when they were big, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Mate, Cypress Hill hits from the bong. It's from the bong, yeah. That that whole album was my childhood, that, and then you know, Dr. Dre, the chronic. Exactly, man. And it's a wonder kids of our generation like people go, Oh fuck, how did you turn into such stoners? Yeah. Look at the music we're listening to. That's it, it was all about it. It was all about it, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, that that was my childhood in a in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

We'll carry on with it now, right now, because this is where, like I said, this you're hanging out with these older kids, so the influence is a bit different. You've got money, this is where you start obviously using the drugs, yeah, yeah. Which turns into you know wanting more and then definitely again branching into different groups of people and yeah, I I think I think I was about 15 years old when I first started growing hooch.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Did you? Yeah, man. Like growing it in the back of your house. Where are you living? Uh in at my parents' house. So you're growing weed at the back of your parents' house. Yeah, and my fucking dad hated it, man. He hated it. And I just fair. Oh, and and I was honest. And and and to like to my dad's credit, he they were good parents, man. They did everything right. I just did everything good. You're just a shit kid. I was just a shit kid.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

And I I remember off that kid too, yeah. We're not that not ex not that extreme, but same thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And I can guarantee most people who've sat in this chair were the same. 100%, mate. 100%. Like boring people don't have like exciting lives. Yeah. But but I remember the first time I got drunk, and I would have only been, you know, that 14, 15, and it was at my next door neighbour's house. Yeah, right. I'd just been working, sick. I'll get a carton. This looks sick. A couple of wood stocks or VB throw down. Carton Cole's.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Oh, is it disgusting? 20 bucks a carton back in those days.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah, yeah, man. Times have changed. And I'm like on 10 bucks an hour. I said, oh, two hours work, I get a carton of piss. Anyway, I I got blind and being a little kid, I had no idea. My old man comes over and he's like, Righto, I think it's uh you've had enough. I'd had like three beers. He's like, you've had enough. On home you get. Next morning he comes in and it was like 6:30. He's like, Righto, you're gonna be a man, you're gonna drink like a man, responsibilities like a man. Get the fuck up, no time for a hangover, get out, mow the lawn. And and that was he's like, Righto, you want to enter this world? That's it, yeah. That's it. Take some responsibility. Yep, no more being a kid, we're not doing your shit for you. Sort yourself out. So yeah, and then um so that yeah, my parents were pretty good like that, and and then with the growing hooch, uh, you know, like I said, 15 years old. And I remember my first harvest, it was only like one or two plants, you know. I might have got a few ounces, and I was like, fuck, what am I gonna do with this? I'm rich. And I I took it to my boss and I said, You want to buy this? And he's like, Yeah, yeah, I'll buy I'll buy that off yeah. And that's where it began, and that's where it began. Easy money. And I was like, this is great. If this is if this is how easy it is to make money, this is my life from now on. And I I I was a bit of a nerd, you know. That was when you my parents weren't rich, so anything I wanted I had to get myself. Um, and I remember that what I did with that was I went and bought a computer, and the reason for getting the computer was so I could get on MSN Messenger on the internet. Oh yeah, and shut up, chicks that you don't even know. ASL.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Yeah, age sex location. Kids these days won't get it.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

They wouldn't get it.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

And then someone pick up the phone and then cuts out. I'm like, yeah, who's fucking on the phone? Yeah, too, seeing. Or someone rings, yeah, and it just cuts out the internet. I'm like, fuck, I'm just chatting, chatting to some bird.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, I'm talking to this chick. I've never even met, I probably never will me. She's hot.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Look at her, look at her profile picture.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, so yeah, did that, bought the computer, and and and that was that was a turning point because I'm like, I can make easy money doing this, and I knew the right people. I knew how to get what I needed to get to make the money. So yeah. Selling drugs, selling drugs, marijuana, marijuana, yeah, yeah. Not really, I didn't really get into oh I did for a period, got into harder drugs. Yeah, like but for me the weed was easy. I knew all the stoners, and they say it's a gateway drug. It 100% is a gateway drug. Like if you're 15 years old smoking weed and someone's like, Oh, you want some pills? Yeah, yeah, I want that. Yeah, that's what I want. So, yeah, I started doing that.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

Um just highlight that for younger listeners out there. I know there's a 15, 16 year old, 70 year olds that listen to this podcast. Like you just said, it it is a gateway because you just want more.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

It is a gateway, but the difference between now and then is back then what we were getting, the quality we were getting was better than what they get.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

It was imported.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yes from the proper countries, from proper countries, and now it's just shit. Like to you to your young listeners, if you are going to try drugs, make sure it's legit. That's it. Because too many people are just getting upped up from shit.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Wait for the next festival, and New South Wales police will test it for you, then you go home and then try it. Are they doing that? Yeah, that's what they're doing. They're doing you see that. A couple years ago they I don't know if they still do it now, but yeah, so when there's a festival, New South Wales police have set up a tent and you take your drug to them, they test it. They obviously confiscate it. Yeah, but it just they give you what's inside of it and say if it's if it's okay or not. Like fucking what do you Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Just helping drug dealers now say their product is good. Well, it it keeps people honest, doesn't it? Yeah, well, it should. Like if you if you like the coke that was coming in, they were saying was cutting with like fentanyl. Man Look at the US. I don't want to touch that stuff. It's killing people. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

It's killing people on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

It's scary. It is scary, and and and young kids like we didn't have to worry about that when we were kids. No. I I remember my first I took acid at a very young age, like 16, 17 years old. Now I I don't think you'd trust anything like that. Like you wouldn't I wouldn't have my kids go and get something like that because I just wouldn't trust that it's legit. There's too many horror stories. But yeah, moving on about uh about the childhood. I um being a stoner, I obviously knew a lot of a lot of people in that world uh so I started. Buying it, selling it to all my mates, and and then I reckon by about 1819. To your businessman? I was a bus I was a legitimate businessman. Yeah. I did no tax returns. There was no tax returns in this business.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

There was no GST. There was no GST.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

No. On fresh, you don't pay GST on fresh produce anyway. Yeah, I did that. And then I I'm I sort of fell into a group. And again, to me, they they were my idols. Um again, a lot a lot older than I am. They sort of took me under their wing. You know, I was a little bit loose. I was up for anything. Anything you could you could say I was up for. So yeah, got in, and then they uh took me under their wing, professional marijuana growers, and uh started that uh on a commercial scale. No way, yeah, on a commercial scale.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

What are we talking like actually just quickly before I just want to cut in quickly? We know that uh you're in the professional world now, yeah. Tacmed and working with a defence, so you can I understand for the listener out there, you understand if he works for defence, he needs certain aspects to be able to work in those places. This is not the person he is now. No, this is definitely not this is younger days. I think is it people going, oh fuck we've got Stoner worked for Tac Med. No, no, that's not that's when he was a kid, so let's just yeah, everyone's everyone can change and I can tell this story because as we talked about before, the Australian government is well aware of my criminal history.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, exactly right. And I and I have been this is not me, this is no longer me. Yeah, um but yeah, this group of guys, uh like I said, they were older, they were they were professionals. And um yeah, we started growing it commercially. And when you said what on what level, uh, we're talking thousands of plants, thousands.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

Was it like full like a house that is just bush modified or bush? Yes, yeah, so we had quite a quite a complex setup. Uh and you're the youngest out of this group? Oh yeah, by far. By far. By far. What you 16, 17?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

No, it was about 19. 19, yeah. Yeah, it was in my later teens. Um and yeah, so what what essentially we would do is we'll, you know, hydroponically grow cuttings and take them out in the bush, but also in the in the right time of year we would also go and steal everybody else's, and this is where where the firearms and and the the wild shit comes into play. Yeah, so we would uh obviously we had our own and at the times of year it was quite a it was it was a very very well organised setup. We would you know you would have people camping on your crops to make sure no one else would steal it, and then we would go out and take everybody else's who didn't have campers.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

So And because you're in that industry air quotations, you knew who was in the game, so you'd you'd kinda we knew where it was growing.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, yeah. We knew we knew where we would grow, and and and these guys, indigenous fellas, incredibly good at their tradecraft, like the tracking skills of these guys are phenomenal. And mate, like they're they're the oldest civilization on earth. If they can't find a patch, no one can. Yeah, not even the helicopters could find things that they were finding, and uh so we'd we'd go and take everybody else's, and so that that was the level that we were, you know, we were engaged in. It was quite serious for a little period there.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Yeah, the that's pretty serious. It's pretty it's very a lot of those SKS are now popping up these days.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Uh yeah, that one's well and truly gone. That's gone back to the New South Wales government.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. But yeah, I didn't realise to that extent as well. That's full-on like gangster. Yes, uh Surfy gangster.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah, yeah, like uh what's that movie with Keanu Reeves and Robin Blank? Point blank point point break. Point break, that's yeah. Stupid man, like now I think about it, that's not I I thought that was gangster, but that's not gangster. That's you were influenced though, but I was influenced, yeah, and and and these guys were doing what they needed to do to s to survive. Like they were they were you know products of of the Housing Commission. They they knew what they had to do to survive. They were taught at a young age. Uh um Just grow up in that environment. Yeah, like one of my mates was taught from from a kid how to track, and and that's what his pop taught him was how to track. And and like no regrets, I I still love these guys for what they did for me.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

They took me under their wing, but yeah, definitely, definitely not so your parents know that you know this this this life that you were living?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yeah, I've always been pretty open and honest with my parents in that regard, and they definitely knew and they fucking hated it. Of course, they hated it, but what could they do? Yeah, exactly. I was that wild kid that couldn't be told. Like me and my dad came to blows a couple of times. I had a couple of punch ups, and and then from that point he was just like, you're on your own.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

If you go to jail, this is on your own.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

Live and learn now.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Live and learn, yeah, yeah. You're in the big world. But I was still working at the same time. That's what's crazy. I'd I'd work, I'd go to work, you know, as a builder, as an apprentice carpenter, come home in the afternoon, and then we're out bush we'd go. And uh on weekends we'd be out in the bush, just just living it up. Yeah, yeah, and and and it got pretty wild, you know. Some of it's crazy when I think about it now, like some of our deals were you know hundreds of thousands of dollars worth. And and I've got nothing to show for that, you know. It's all pissed up the wall within the weeks of getting it, you know what I mean? Cars, other drugs, whatever we could do. Yeah, that's the I guess that's the exciting part of the criminal career, but uh at the same time, I was also accumulating a lot of criminal offences.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

And this is what I was about to touch on now. Where does the 5-0 come into play?

SPEAKER_01 28:05

It comes in pretty early. Like I had my first charge for cultivation at 18. Uh, I think I was, yeah, just just after 18.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

And I had when you say cultivation, how much were you doing? Was that with part of this big group? No, no, that was your backyard stacks. My backyard stacks.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

And that man, those cops, the cops back then were so cool. It's different, they're different. Local copers. This this guy, we used to call him Robocop, as we'll kids. You'd we'd be at a street party in Sortel Main Street, and you'd see the paddy wagon come past. There'd be thousands of kids, but there'd be one cop in it, and everyone would knew as soon as they saw one cop, they'd be they'd yell out, Robocop! He wouldn't run with his with his kit, he would just turn up clean skinned, just in his uniform, no belt, nothing, and he would fucking run you down if if he wanted you. You could not get away from this guy. Absolute legend, and a fair cop, rough you up, tell you you're a dickhead, send you on your way. Yeah. Not not about charging people. And it was him that came to my house for this. And he pulled up in the driveway and I walked out to meet him. I said, What are you doing here? He goes, I'm here to look at your patch. I was like, fuck, what do you mean? He goes, Look at it there. And I look at it there. Stupidly, stupidly. I I tried to hide it behind a trampoline. I stood a trampoline up on its end, like the old rectangle trampoline, you know, we didn't have nets back in those days. So I've stood the trampoline up on its end and and the the buds were growing over the top. It was over three metres tall, this thing. And he's like, he goes, We've tried to warn you because we've done a couple of blockies and and driven past your house a few times because I lived in a cul de sack. He's like, We tried to warn you, mate, we're gonna take it. I was like, Yeah, no worries, I'll help you get it out. And he's walked out into the backyard with the other coffer, uh, Christina, she's a legend too. Um, had quite a few dealings with her after that, and they both cracked up laughing. She goes, How the fuck did you think you were ever gonna get away with this? Like you can see it over the top of people's sheds. Three metres tall.

SPEAKER_05 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

So she took they took it. They uh I think I had 10 in the backyard at the time. So you got charged. I got charged. Yeah, I got charged for cultivation, got convicted. Yep. Oh, you got conviction, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was my first ever conviction.

SPEAKER_04 30:24

Um what it what what was the the sentencing there?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Uh it was only a $270 fine, conviction recorded. Yeah, yeah. Uh that was my first different times again. Again, different times. Um had I had had I got done for that 10, I would have got done for commercial quantity. So yeah, they did me a favor by by not charging me for that, which I thought was quite good. Uh, and then moving on from there, yeah, just snowballed with convictions, court dates. Did it? Yeah, yes. Because I was hanging out with this crowd, right? I thought I was gang, I thought I was untouchable, man. Like I'm, you know, from like 1819 through to 23, I thought I was untouchable. No one could whatever. What are you gonna do, cops? What another conviction, and uh, and I you know, I got some convictions for assaults. Um, I got an assault charge, it was on a council ranger. I had a I found a dog while I was out in the bush, a dingo, a dingo pup. I could see where this is going. Oh mate, fucking idiot. I called it yandy because I found it while I was out growing yandy. This fucking dog. Anyway, it was a bastard. It you couldn't contain it. It would sleep on the roof of the shed. It would it just attacked it. Sounds like you was a kid. Oh yeah, that that was my spirit animal. Yeah, I was a dingo once. Anyway, it did something, it attacked the neighbour's dog, and uh, she called the council, and the council's come around, and he's like, I'm gonna have to destroy your dog. No, fuck off, mate. You're not. He's like, Oh, well, anyway, like because they forcibly can't take the dog. Um, so he's left, and I I was at a party, I was at a party party shortly after that, and I saw him there. He's a big guy, he was actually a local security guard as well. Um, there's a funny story about him and his dad, we'll tell in a minute. Uh I saw him at the party, I was pretty charged up, bulletproof. So I said to him, mate, you think you're gonna fucking take my dog over my dead body? And he grabbed me around the throat and he goes, You think I'm fucking scared of you? I just pumped him. I just started wailing into him, and then it turned into an all inbral. We're at the like RSL, turned into a huge fight. I was in the bathroom, I ended up in the bathroom with some dude who was trying to shive me with a broken glass. It got pretty wild. So I got I got kicked out of the club. They kept him inside, and I remember I was out on the main street, and I as I was walking down the street, I could see him through the windows. I took all my clothes off, stripped down to my undies. Because I remember my indigenous friend, quite a small guy, and he's like, if you're ever in a fight with a bigger dude, get all your clothes off because you don't want to be able to get grabbed. So I was like, boom, that's me. I stripped down to my jocks, I threw all my clothes to my cousin, I said, Quick, hold these, I'm gonna get this gun. And I I'm out the front torting him. I was like, Come on, come on. He's in there banging on the tables like an angry gorilla, like pointing out, I'm gonna fucking get you. I was like, I'm here, man. Come here, come out. It didn't happen. He didn't come out. I I end up leaving. The manager came out with two bottles of water and he's like, Here, this is for your walk home. Because he knew my dad too quite well. And he's he's it's a small town man, so he's like, Yeah, here's some bottles of water, see you later.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

In your jocks, yeah, in my jocks, hit the robe.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

So that went to court, convicted. Yeah, that went to court. Uh he, you know, funnily enough, after that happened, he called my parents at like two o'clock in the morning, used again, used his work privileges to to get my my house number. And uh called my mum, and he's like, by this stage I'd gotten home pretty rowdy, she knew what had happened. And he's like, You tell your fucking son next time I see him, she's like, Hang on, aren't you the council ranger? Like, how'd you get our number? What are you doing calling us? And she's like, You had your chance to get him, you missed it, just leave it alone. And uh this guy was a douchebag, right? So the the the other story to this guy of how much of a douchebag is, him and his uh father, his father was a senior council ranger in COS, and they were on a power trip, man, big time. They performed a citizen's arrest on a dude uh on the local beach, but forgot to put the handbrake on and take their car out of drive when they did it. So they're wrestling with this dude on the beach. Next minute, the car's out in the fucking surf. The council ranger car out in the surf. Needless to say, he lost his job. The young guy uh tried to get in the cops, but the cops were like, mate, no, nah nah, no. Um so that went to court. Uh and there was a few charges that day, and that that was one of them. And the magistrates asked me, he's like, What do you have to say? I said, Look, the dude grabbed me around the throat. I hit him. To me, it's self-defence, but I plead guilty. And he goes, Are you sure? Like, he he said, Are you sure you want to plead guilty? He goes, To me, this is if this is self-defence, we can send it to trial and get both parties and and go from there. I was like, Look, I don't want to waste your time, I don't want to waste the court's time guilty. And he goes, Well, I advise against it, but if that's what you want to do. So that was, I guess when we talk about the the clearance, I never pled not guilty to any of my charges. I accepted what I'd done as as my own my own issue, and uh, and that's why I think that's why the the character came out in in the clearance. Like I I I'd admitted, yeah, I did it. I'm not gonna waste anybody's time. And on that same day, so I had that not long after that incident, so so I had a lot of incidents uh happen in a very small amount of time. So after that incident, I had uh an incident with a National Parks Ranger. Yeah, you see the defiance to authority here, yeah. And uh I was fishing with my with my dad down the local creek and and I had my dog with me anyway. Your dingo. Nah, nah, it's a different dog. Fuck that dingo. Fuck man, that thing caused so much trouble.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

So much trouble.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Now you can see how your your parents felt. Oh yeah, but but unlike my unlike what what my parents could do, I let the thing go back in the bush. I just let it go back in the bush. It's like fuck you're too wild, man. Not not until though I bred it with my German shepherd, so I had pups. Yeah, and I I sold those pups to the local to the local pet shop. Told them they were German shepherds. Oh shit. Yeah, it's funny because I I gave a couple to some mates of mine. Um and what yeah, and they were like, man, these dogs are out of control. German shepherd dingos, loose as just they would just try and fuck everything up. One mate was stupid enough, and he bought one from the pet shop not knowing that they were mine. Needless to say, everyone who had one of those dogs either destroyed it or gave it to the pound. Yeah, that's how out of control they were. Yeah, so I'll let that go. But anyway, the uh we're fishing with the anyway, the the Parks Ranger. I could see him sitting across the other side of the creek, and he was there for hours, mate. Hours and hours just watching. And I was like, what's this car fucking doing? Anyway, we get back over there because he because you had to wade through waste deep water to to get there. Come back and he's like, Oh, hey mate, you've just had your dog over there. I was like, Yeah, what's the issue, man? He goes, Oh, you know this is a national park, you can't have a dog in here. I said, It's it's the creek. Like he goes, No, we own like the national park. I said, You can't own the creek, mate. The creek's for everyone. What harm was it doing? He goes, Oh, the little terns nest there. I said, You mean when it's high tide and it's fucking two feet underwater, how can they nest there? He's like, No, you just can't have dogs here. He's like, What's your name? I said, I'm not telling you my name. I don't have to tell you shit. And then he he pulls out his notepad and he started writing down you know the Regio details of my dad, it was my dad's work car that we're in. I just grabbed his book and I threw it in the creek. I was like, mate, let's not go here. And he's like, No, no, no, I like whatever. I said, mate, you want to be a cunt? Like, let's go. You wanna you wanna be the hero? And again, I fucking hate myself for doing for being like this as a young kid. Now I look back on it, I'm like, man, you were so stupid. You were so fucking stupid. I could have just walked away and nothing would have happened. But I was like, nah, I'm gonna deal with this now. So I got over him and I didn't assault him, but I just got up in his face and and gave it to him. Left it at that, threw his book in the creek. See you later, mate. My dad came over and got me and he's like, Don't be a fucking dickhead. That afternoon I get a phone call from the detectives, cops, cops, oh yeah, we realise you're involved in an altercation. I was like, with the fucking national parks, dude, and he's like, Yeah, they I think this dude caused a bit of trouble too. Like yeah, it was my fault, but this guy was on a power trip as well. He he'd done stuff like this in the past. Cops like, yeah, need you to come make a statement. I was like, Yeah, right. Went and made the statement. I got charged that day with uh destruction of personal property, uh, stalk intimidation. Uh I think that was the only two, but stork intimidation man, for for telling some cunt that I was gonna fight him. Like, I think that was a bit heavy-handed. Uh, I don't know why it was dealt with detectives, maybe because at the time I was pretty pretty wild.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

Involved in the system.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, yeah. I I don't know. But there was, yeah, that was another charge. Uh, and then then not long after that was like a uh that photo I sent you while I was in Brisbane. Yeah, I was I was doing a drug deal at the time with one of my mates in Brisbane, out the front of the Logan police station, man. I didn't know Brisbane. I'd pulled up. Was it no, no, it wasn't Logan, it was uh Mount Gravat.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Mount Gravat. Mount Gravat.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Yeah, um but it was so funny because I I pulled up to see old mate, jumped out of the car and I was like, man, it's so hot here. He goes, Yeah, well, let's go down the road. Like, we'll go down and there's a pub down there, we'll go and chill out. No worries, jump back in the car. And and for reference, at this time in my life, uh I believe I had a dreadlock mullet. I I look, I fit, I was wearing speed deals, I fit the description of someone who's not doing the right thing. And uh, anyway, I jumped back in the car. As I jumped back in, the cop car came out of nowhere, just full cut me off. And the two cops jumped out and they're like, get out of the car, you're under arrest, we're detaining you for the purpose of a search. And I was like, holy fuck, what is going on here? And they're like, Well, I'm searching. You got any drugs in the car? No, I got nothing. They're like, Oh yeah, okay, cool. Searched through the car, found the weed, found scale, I had a set of scales in the car. I had a knife in the car, like a brand new knife that I just bought from the from the Brisbane markets, right? I had two phones. My partner at the time, yeah. She's like, What are you doing? You can't do this, and they're like, We can. Anyway, he pulls out, finds bags of weed, and he's like, Is this everything you've got? You know, he's got it sprawled across the bonnet. I was like, How many bags you got there? He goes, Two. I said, There's two more under the seat you missed. And just being a smart ass, you know, like yeah, good job, guys, really, really thorough search. And they're like, Yeah, sick. So they dig them out, take me back to the station. One phone was red hot, mate. As you could imagine at that time, I was I was pretty red hot in the business. Um, one phone was was going off constantly. So he's like, Oh, someone's trying to get a hold of you. I said, Oh, it's probably my boss, and I knew it wasn't. And he's like, Oh, we'll see about that. And he took my phone man and went and answered it, or he answered it in front of me. And he and he's talking to my mate, and uh, my mate's like, Where's Jace? And he goes, Oh, he's in the room with some other chick. And my mate obviously knew that I had a missus, and he's like, No, he's not. And the cop's like, Oh yeah, anyway, he's busy, like, do you want some gear? Do you? And my mate's like, what are you talking about, man? Cop's like, oh, he's got that good stuff if you want it. Trying to, man, full trying to. Just sounding like cops, yeah, just sounding like cops. And my mate's like, who are you? I know, and old mate's like, oh, it's Jace's cousin Felix. And my mate's like, what? Shut up, man. Anyway, he got my mate goes, anyway, tell him it's his boss calling he needs to get the fuck back to work. Save my ass without even like oh my man. He just knew, he just knew, and his dad was the guy who rang me, his dad was senior sergeant at Koff's police station. Yeah. Absolute champion copper, loose as fuck. Like he taught us how to make our first orange cannon. Yeah. At like 17 years. That yeah, they were they were awesome. Yeah. He I remember him blowing up at us. He's like, what are you doing? You're using the wrong glue. You can't use the blue stuff, you've got to use the green stuff. So yeah, that that was uh another I got convicted of that, I believe.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Um you do any time in prison?

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Nah, uh it wasn't until I I got a good behavior bond. But you're obviously teetering on. The lines of teetering very much so. Um, because I had so many convictions in such such a short period of time, it was displaying a pattern of of shit behaviour, of course, yeah. Yeah, um there's a few other charges. I I actually did get charged with supply uh later on in life, and it was a shitty charge. Um it was because I had leaf, I had 500 grams of leaf and the cops like I said, mate, that's garbage. He's like, What are you doing with it? I said, I'm just turning it into butter, mate. Like, it's worth 50 bucks. If you want to, I'll take I'll throw it on the lawn and mow over it. Like it means and he's like, Oh no, I'll take it for you and sort it out, you know. Like, yeah, I'll sort it out, I'll look after you. Next minute he called and he's like, Oh mate, that's a I'm gonna have to charge you with supply. What do you mean? So so that was the final charge that I had. Uh, and that I got a good behaviour behind. How old are you at this stage? What year is this? Um I don't know how old I was with that one. Like early 20s sort of thing, I think. Like, yeah, sort of towards the the end of uh end of the time. Um yeah, so he's done that, and I I remember I went to court and the magistrate's like you're not going in a good direction here. Uh you're accumulating all this stuff. Uh it's not it's not looking positive for you. I'm gonna give you a good behaviour bond this time, put me on a bond, and uh don't come back, don't let me see you back here, or or the outcome will be different. So I was like, yeah, cool. And at the time, man, I was drinking heaps of piss. I I had heaps of money. I was drinking, you know, we'd get up in the morning, we'd go down the bottle shop, and we're drinking Jim Bean Black or whatever they were called, you know, the strong ones.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

We'd get three cartons of them in the morning, and and there was one little white guy hanging out with all these indigenous people, and they're like sick, getting blind, fighting, just doing dumb shit. And and for me, that last court appearance. I was like, yeah, I need to, this is where I need to calm down because if I keep going in this trajectory, I'm gonna end up in jail. So I stopped drinking, I still engaged in in the other stuff, but I stopped drinking, and uh that was a turning point for me in life, and then so I I I've done that, um stopped the pierce, kept doing this the shit. Then my partner at the time we had some troubles, you know, and I think in that period that we had troubles when we were separated, that's when I really got out of control, and then we got back together, and then that's when life really changed for me. Uh I still dabbled a little bit in the you know in the criminal stuff, but nothing extreme, nothing sell a bit of weed or whatever. Uh so then she fell pregnant. I stopped drinking, we got back together, she fell pregnant. And for me, that was so she fell pregnant in 2011 and 11. Uh I stopped drinking in maybe 2010. Uh yeah, 2010, 2011. And uh then I was like, right eh, now it's time. You got a kid on the way, you you really need to shape up because I I don't want to spend my my kids' years in jail. I don't want to do that. So I got out of it. I got I got away from it all.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

And it was that easy. Wasn't that easy? Not not yeah, not that easy, but that was like the defining that was a yeah this is this is where I'm gonna this is when I made start making the changes.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Yeah, yeah. You've got a responsibility now. Like now, now is not the time to be a dickhead. And and I got away uh I got out of it. I still hung out with those guys, but I didn't I didn't do what what what they were doing anymore.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

That's pretty a tough thing. It's sort of like giving up smoking, but you're still hanging around that area. Generally people give up smoking, you stay away from other smokers, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

And so it's pretty, you know, yeah within your own character.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Well, I didn't the heat was on with the coppers, man, at that time.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

So you were fearing prison.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah, big time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

Which they probably should have sent you to prison fucking years prior.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Should have. Probably. If and it definitely, if I hadn't gotten if I had gotten caught for what we were doing then, I would have gone to prison, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_04 48:39

Did you ever get in trouble for all the gun stuff as well?

SPEAKER_01 48:41

No, we'll get to that bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:44

Um This is when you thought it was all over.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yeah, and I you know, I still talk to him and and whatever, but I I I wasn't involved. I had a kid, man. I had to get away from there. Uh I still smoke heaps of weed and you know, a couple of little deals on the side, but nothing like nothing, nothing like no commercial smoke. No commercial.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

No three meter trees in your backyard.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

No, no thousands of trees, no going out at two o'clock in the morning, ripping off people's patches. Yeah. Fighting ranges. Fighting rangers, yeah. Stupid shit. Really stupid shit. Um so I got away and then like I said, the heat was on. Prior to that, I had a bit of involvement with the cops, you know. Uh I had the D's turn up at my house one day, and they're they're like, oh, this dude's getting around town waving a shotgun at people saying he's coming for you. I was like, what do you mean? They're like, he's pretty serious. He's like saying he's gonna come and shoot your house up and all this shit. And they're like, oh, what's it about? Is it about the drugs? So they knew the D's knew, but obviously they they couldn't put it all together. And I was like, I don't know what you guys are talking about, man. I'm not involved in anything like that. They're like, yeah, well, we know you are. Um so that was another wake-up call, too. But yeah, anyway, the when I got out, my my kid was born and he was only he might have only been a month old. This is Nate. Nate, yeah, my first son Nate. And uh next minute I get a phone call from one of the boys and he's like, mate, Charles just got raided. I was like, what do you mean? They're like, yeah, they've just got his house, you know, thousand plants, steroids, other drugs. And I was like, fuck. I said, did they have they found his shed? And he's and they're like, I think so. So uh at the time he uh he had a storage shed. Uh stupidly kept everything in that storage shed. That storage shed was in my name. So they they've obviously done the raid on him, found the shed that they already knew was was a thing. Obviously, some I don't know whether they were that good at their job. I think someone's tipped them off. Tip them off, yeah. So they've raided the shed, then then they've come to me and they're like, we've got your shed. Like, yeah, cool. It's not my shed. And they're like, Yeah, but it's in your name. Like, nah, it's not my shed. And they're like, Well, you're gonna have to come with us and and sort this out. Either you come, either you come to us or we come and get you. So I was like, Yeah, I'll I'll come to you. Got in there and I was like, so what's what's the go? And they're like, yeah, you know, we've just done this, just done this raid. This is what we found. We've got your storage shed, we've got your guns, uh, we've got everything else. I was like, what guns? They found uh like 11 or 12 guns. Did they? Yeah, all hot, all hot, obviously. SKS. SKS.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Was it?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Yeah, serious, like pretty serious. Like that that's aggravated being an automatic weapon. And I was like, look, guys, that's not mine. I I have nothing to do with that. So that's not even my shed. They're like, yeah, it we know it's your shed. I was like, no, no, nothing to do with it. And they're like, Righto, he comes back with the paperwork, there's all my details, there's my license photo copy. He's like, so this isn't yours. I was like, fuck, okay, it's my shed. That's my shed. I used and they're like, Righto, it's about time you tell tell us what's happened. I was like, look, I got the shed originally, uh, I didn't need it, so I just gave it to him and he's just continued on with the lease. I don't know what's in it, I don't care what's in it, I've got nothing to do with it. And that and they're like, Yeah, but what about the guns? Tell us about the guns. I was like, Look, man, I know nothing about that. And uh they weren't getting anything from me. And and they're like, okay, at the end of it, they're like, You're lucky that we have never seen you go there.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

Yeah, so they've been surveying it.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

They've been surveilling it.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

They're like, You're lucky we've never seen you go there. So that proves it. You had no idea what was you were just dumb enough to get the shed in the first place. Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

And they're like, So why'd you do it? I said, they they said they're like, Oh, did you do it because you knew he couldn't get it because it would raise red flags? I said, No, I just did it because I was going to use it, and then I didn't use it. I just gave it to him. It sat down. I didn't sell a lease on it, so I'd needed a yeah, and it's it's automatic payments. You just go in and hand cash over the counter. They don't give a fuck who you are. Um so yeah, and and that detective with with my young bloke, he was that detective too. So shit. Yeah, yeah. So we uh it we'll get to that story later. But yeah, that was the end of the you know, of the really wild shit. Is it had my kid that was so what do you get yeah? He got raided in 2012 at the start of 2012, I think, like mid-2012, maybe. And yeah, that was for me done.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

Any of those other blokes go to prison or killed or he got seven years.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Did he, yeah, yeah, shit. Seven years. Uh and he and since then he's been in and out. As he is he's part of the system, man. Like, once you're part of the system like that, and and it's a tragedy because he's a really nice guy, like that's probably debatable to some people, but for he helped me out in life. Like I was I was broke. He gave me, you know, without I wouldn't have had the life I had back then without him, and I probably wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't lived that life. So I I thank him for that, but also I'm I'm glad.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

I'm glad I'm not part of it, not part of it. That's it. And I speak to him every now and then, and you know, he's still doing the same stuff, still drinking and partying.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

Fortunately, some of those people just need to be locked up for life. That's it. Like there's there's no like you said, they're just in and out, yeah. And it gets worse, they connect with different people and they get involved again, and yeah, and then people get killed and shot up and get stabbed and whatever, and definitely especially these days. Yeah, it's a lot different these days.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

And there was a period where the bikes tried to get me in too. Um I did skip that part, but I was selling quite a lot of pills back then, and I I remember I got a phone call from one of the bikers, and he's like, Man, come over and come over and chat. I was like, Yeah, right oh, what are we chatting about? He's like, Man, the cop is there on to you, brother. I was like, What do you mean? He goes, They're on to you. So we'll see what that's obvious. He's like, but you know what? If you keep your shit here and you work with us, we'll make it go away. I was like, How stupid do you think I am?

SPEAKER_04 55:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Like you just want me to buy your shit and sell your shit for you. No, not happening. Not happening.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

Uh and uh we're talking money to how how much money are you making? Oh man Is it is it worthwhile?

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Oh yeah, yeah, it is. Oh yeah, like I said, some of our weed deals were a couple hundred thousand at a time.

SPEAKER_04 55:52

Uh a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

It's a lot of money, man. It's a lot of money, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

Young dude.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

I would be making anywhere upwards of 150k, you know, in in a few months. But again, tax-free. Tax-free, yeah. Sorry, Elbo. I'll give you 40% later. But no, like yeah, it was a lot of money, uh, short-lived. There's nothing you can do with that money. I I bought you know, I had a WRX and a Sylvia, I I did got the rice burners and did all that sort of piss. Nothing else. Drank heaps of piss, did heaps of drugs. That was it. You know, it's not can't buy a house with it. You definitely can't buy a house with it. Yeah. No. Um, and my work money definitely was not enough to buy a house either. And and and at that time it this bit this stuff was affecting my work career. Like, I would just not turn up at work on Mondays because I'd had a big weekend or I had a pocket full of cash. So I was like, I don't need to go to work. And then obviously that would piss people off too, piss my bosses off. And so there's a yeah, there's a whole it's a whole big thing uh in that world. Yeah, and you either like you said, you end up in jail or you end up dead, or and I've I've had my head punched in so many times because of this shit. I'm not a good fighter. So again stripped down to your jocks, stripped down, yeah. And still do it. No, no, my fighting days are well and truly over, eh? Well and truly over.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

Mate, when the Chinese come invade, there's just all these dudes in jocks. In jocks, yeah, yeah. What the fuck are they doing?

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah, but they're not really big guys, right? So so we we don't really have any issues there. But hey, if the Chinese come, call them. That's it. Call me up, boys. Yeah, call me up.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

The jockey. The jock brigade. So, yeah, that 2012 period, this is where you obviously Nate's born. Yeah, you change your ways, you still hang out with these people, but you know, you're starting to find purpose now, obviously, with your son. Yes. This is where the STS comes into it. Like, where like out of you go from this life of drug dealing, just being an absolute hood rat, yeah, to now wanting to contribute to the community. Yeah. Like, how does that how does that transpire?

SPEAKER_01 58:10

To be honest, man, I have no idea what clicked. Um, but but the way it happened was I was reading the the local newspaper one day and uh there was a write-up in there on the SES, and I that the picture they had was two hot chicks, right? Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

Bookline Zenker.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Oh yeah. I saw that and I was like, fuck yeah, if this is where all the chicks are hanging, I am there. And then joined up. That was it. Made the call pretty much that day, and I was like, I want to join, join up. And uh went through the process, and obviously because I had a you know, I had a pretty serious criminal record, that was a hurdle. Um but they called up and they're like, Yeah, let's we'll we're happy to give you a crack at it.

SPEAKER_04 58:52

So they get your criminal history check and it's just like, yep, yep, yeah, holy shit, this dude is like he's a career criminal.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

Yeah, and they asked the questions like uh you know, there's like 13 or 14 convictions there, and um That's a lot, yeah, man. It's heaps, it's heaps. Uh and they're like, Righto, so you you're a piece of shit. What's what's changed? Why do you want to do this? I'm like, well, I've had a kid, it's time to you know move on with life. So yeah, they accepted me, joined uh late 2012, started hardcore in 2013, the start of 2013.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

Yep. Uh let's walk through this process of the STS, you know. Again, like we've all seen the STS. Every time there's a storm, we see them putting tarps over roofs, yeah. As you said. Sandbagging. Well, yeah, it's handbagging. Well, you know, you apply for this volunteer organization. What's the process? Is there any training involved at the start? Is there what's the what's the process here?

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Yep, so there's definitely and and all units is the same in this. There's like your foundation stuff. Um I can't remember what they call it. Fundamentals, uh, and then just like uh just community stuff, you know, what what's expected of you, all that sort of stuff. And then you you roll into your storm trainings. Um that's usually the one they they get first, is storm and water damage. They get that out of the way. Because that's again, that's the the organization's core role, right? When there's a storm, that's who they get to come and and sort everything out. So they're your first few courses that you do, and rescue sort of comes later. They back then they wanted you to do two or three years of storm and water stuff before they allowed the rescue stuff, you know, to really happen. Back then it was it was sort of discriminatory, but it in a way it worked well because it it got the shit out. There was a lot of people that joined when I did. There was a class of about 25 of us. Some people didn't last six months, you know. They got whatever tickets they wanted to get out of it first aid, or or some people might have been there. One dude was there as part of his visa, yeah. Sudanese guy. Uh that's when the PC world was weird. And uh, you know, they made a big song and dance about this Sudanese guy that's in the SES. I'm like, fuck off. Yeah, it's it's this is not legit. He was just using it, yeah. Of course. Um, and a lot of people were. There was a lot of people I believe there that would, you know, do in it for the wrong reasons to serve their own purposes, whether they had court appearances coming up. I don't know. That's my speculation. Um, but those people don't last long. And then, yeah, you do that. I sort of did. Once I got into it, I I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the the crew. Like I said, my mentor who I actually knew prior to joining uh SAS Veteran uh from the 80s, 90s. Uh and you know, me and him got along really well. So I was like, now I want to aspire to be like you. You're the individual I want to aspire to be like.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

So he gave you that that motivation. Yeah. Because again, this is 80s, 90s SAS. They're hard. Different, different breed of different breed of men as well. They're men, you know, they're they're men.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Yeah, and and no bullshit. And at the time, the unit commander, he was a uh a Vietnam veteran. What was he?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

So he was hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

He was it yeah, it was very, very regimented. The you the the Koffsarbo SES unit at that time was very well regimented. Uh it it was quite professional. That's why I was like, this is where I want to be, surrounded by these cool people that have done really cool shit in life. And uh yeah, kicked off from there, really, got stuck into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:37

So when do you get your first text message? When's it when does that happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

And first job. Oh man, I think there was a storm event like literally early 2013. So I was straight into it. Yeah. Driving around, doing shit. At the time I had no qualifications, so there wasn't much I could do, but you know, I could I could help out, I could be a ground crew, and I knew because I had that career in construction, so all this time from the time I left school, even to this day, I I still do carpentry. So I had that knowledge, uh, especially with with storm jobs, like shit on the roofs. If I know how to fix that, uh so that's what I was doing for quite a while, and uh yeah, it was it was quite cool actually, but really. I know it sounds a bit gay, like running around tarping roofs and mate.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:25

It's necessity though, and that's the the the thing, is yeah, like I said, when there's a storm, who do you call? Yeah, you'd the fierys can't do it, they haven't got enough people, they're too busy doing whatever they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

They're doing photo shoots for your for your annual calendar.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:39

Like that's the cops are too busy doing the cop thing. Doing the cop thing, you know, like so we need someone. We need someone that needs to put tarps over people's roofs, exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

And and we were like it was quite busy, it was a quite a busy time. Uh I I think we had it 2013 or 2014, there was a massive hail storm hit cops, massive. So everything was smashed up. And we you know, we were knocking out hundreds of jobs in these events, and and you'd be spending multiple days doing 12-hour days for nothing. For nothing, for nothing. Again, you cup of tea, a couple bickies, a couple of fucking microwave pies when you come back to the unit. But yeah, that's that that was that was it for the first couple of years. And you're still working, I'm still working, yeah. Yeah, um, I was working for a dude who was uh on his way to retirement, really casual. Again, uh I started working for this guy at a young age as an apprentice, uh, and he was he was a really, really good boss. He hated what I was involved in. He knew what I was involved in, and he still to this day tells me he'd go, I always knew when you'd have a big weekend on the drugs because you'd be useless until Wednesday. He goes, You just wouldn't show up Monday, and then you'd be useless till Wednesday, and and hated it, but took me under his wing and and taught me taught me how to be a decent human being because he was non-tolerable of this shit, man. Like I did there was a few a few things I got in trouble for that I didn't tell him about because I out of fear that that's the sort of guy he was.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:16

Uh on you know, we we you know, we obviously talk about storms with the SES stuff, but you know, obviously down the track you're moving to that rescue stuff. You know, what else are you doing outside of storms, like in that first couple of years? And how how often would you get a text message?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:32

Um in those first couple of years it was a lot of training. I I took to to whatever training I could do. Um I don't have the exact time frames on me. Um That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:43

And when you say training, so they'd offer say, oh, there's a two week training block of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:47

They train over week, they train over weekends. Gotcha. So your training of course yeah. Y your training's done so Tuesday nights is your regular your regular night, your regular turn up and chin wag, and there's some training involved in that. But your weekends are where you do all your training. Or you might do like a three-day, like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Um, so yeah, when I wasn't doing family stuff or working, I was doing whatever I could with the SES, basically, trying to get that and and and I I should mention before some another thing that uh sort of motivated me in that time period was fucking Mark Donaldson's book, The Crossroads.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:28

Crazy book, isn't it? Mate, just his story growing up too was pretty his story, and it's the mum's still missing to this day, and small world man, like good friends of mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

Uh obviously they went to school with him in Dorigo. I believe growing up, I still remember that uh go going up to Dorigo and seeing the punk dudes, which would have been like him, yeah. It's funny, man. Small world. Uh but that book, and then then the movie Act of Valor.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

When that came out, I was like, man, I thought I was fucking hardcore, but this is the world that is actual these are hardcore dudes. Uh I'm not I was just nothing, I was just a piece of shit. And and and seeing that, that's where I was like, yeah, I want to aspire to be better. Be better, to be better than what I am, to be to be useful. Because all I was was a burden, basically. Like up until that period, I just a burden on the world.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:25

Yeah. Um, so in the first couple years, you're just doing training here and there respond to uh as you said, storms or how whatever, just regular SES stuff. Obviously, down the track, you move to like I said, you're moving to the rescue, which we'll talk about shortly. But fuck, man, this is where it all fucking changes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Like this is yeah, and leading up to that, I was doing rescue like 2014. Sort of I started doing rescue courses.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:52

Oh, so you start you start your rescue. And yeah, just quickly, let's talk about that. What are we talking rescue courses? What are the uh what are they teaching you?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

So I did uh I believe road crash rescue was the first one.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

So like the fire is rocking up to a cutting out of yeah, that's you're doing that training with the jaws of life and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:11

Yeah, yeah. Um and quite complex training. I I believe still to this day that the the road crash rescue component that the SES teaches is phenomenally far ahead of anyone else's. The the stuff that they teach is unreal. We we focus on a lot of uh American or they were a lot of American procedures and and experimental stuff. So so what what we got taught, I think our road crash course went went over three months or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:41

I do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Yeah, man, it's quite a long time. Wow, yeah, and same with vertical rescue. Our vertical rescue course was who runs all that?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:48

Are they former volunteers?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

SES volunteers.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Any of them like former fire rescue or anything like that? It's all done in-house.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

It's all done in-house. Yeah, yeah. And and there's a they've become professionals of their trade.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:01

Yes, because they do it so fucking often.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:03

Yes, and there's a organization that's called um Australian Road Rescue Organization or some arrow they call it. They help hold a competition every year. Uh and and guys, there was a core group of guys from from the COFS unit that have done it year after year. And these dudes, like I said, have been in there for 20 years. Experts, absolute experts, like ninjas with this shit. Um, so they yeah, they were my instructors. You do like a I can't I think I did maybe urban search and rescue as well prior to that 2015 period. But yeah, sort of for like 14 busy year.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:41

Just training. Just training.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

But were you responding to Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

Oh, you were, yeah, yeah. So you did respond to some MVAs.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Yeah, whenever I could, whenever I could. And it and there's a lot of low drag stuff. Like you you might go to a to a car crash in a 60k zone, you know, and it might be something as simple as just ripping a door off. Yeah, yeah. So someone can get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:00

Were there any serious ones?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:01

No, not prior to that. No, no, um for me personally, no, but for the unit, definitely the unit was doing some pretty high level, high level stuff, like we talked about before with that rescue in the waterfall. Um, yeah, that's that was the level that I wanted to get to.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:21

Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, but uh, you know, early in the podcast, and the reason why you reached out, you know, we spoke about your son, and I guess this is where it fucking changes for you, mate. Like it's just this is unfathomable just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

Yeah, yeah, it was you know pretty shit. Yeah, pretty fucking shit, really.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:45

Yeah, and you're off doing some SES stuff as well at this at this time.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

Yeah, on that day I was doing uh that that weekend, it was a nav course at a unit a little bit further north of COFS.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:58

Um just sorry, just quickly, it's your your partner and your son only?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

Yes, at that time, yes, yeah. Yeah, and and they they were at home. Uh I was at I was at the yeah, doing this uh navigation course and I got a call, you know, in the middle of the day, it was the young fella, he he was he was nearly nearly three, and he's like, Oh, like, you know, as a as a kid at that age can say, Dad, when are you coming home? Like, we'll go on the motorbike and and do this. I was like, Yeah, cool. Uh the course is just about to wrap up, so I'll be home soon. It didn't. The course pushed out for another three or four hours. It got to the point where I was like looking at my watch, going, guys, we're going overtime here. I'm I'm gonna go home. And they're like, Oh no, I just wait, like, we'll wrap it up in you know 30. So I'm driving home. Um, yeah, on my way home, and next minute I got overtaken by three ambulances like 10 minutes from home. I was like, fuck, these cunts are hooking. And I uh you never see a response like that, man. You never see three three ambulances dedicated to a job at the same time. So I was like, Oh, I better check my phone.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:12

So you're expecting a text. I was expecting a text, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

Yeah, I looked at, I was like, fuck, where's my phone? Uh maybe there's an incident. I'm I'm heading towards that way anyway, so I'll roll in there. Uh no text message, cool, turn the music on, just keep keep driving home. And uh I remember I live rural, uh, I live quite a fair way out of town. I remember driving along the road, and as I was coming up towards the house, I was like, oh, that's weird. What the fuck's that in the driveway? And uh got up there and the the ambulances were in my driveway, and I was like, what the fuck is going on here?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:49

And uh I walked past the first airplane, and my young bloke was in there. And they would um they were doing CPR, and I was like, what the what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:08

And uh then my neighbor walked down because he he was there doing some stuff and he's like fuck mate my missus at the time she she couldn't say anything, she was a fucking mess. And I was like, fuck what happened? Like, did he get bitten by I thought a spider or a snake? Because we had you know we had a lot of um funnel webs and snakes and shit. I was like, fuck what happened like what the fuck? And my neighbour's like it was to pull, and I was like, fuck. Like, what the fuck? And uh, and at that time there was a supervisor there, uh, an ambulance supervisor. And he's walked over and he's like, I said, mate, I was in my uniform, my SES uniform. And he's like, I'm so sorry. I was like, what the fuck's going on? He goes, Look, man, I don't know. Um at this stage, we don't know. We we can't say anything. Like we're the guys are working on him, we're doing our best. And uh I was like, What? Like what? What he's like was drowning, and he's like, he's getting colour back. Um he goes, it you know, it could be positive. He's like, but at this stage, I can't, I can't, I don't want to give you false hopes. Um so they were working on him and they they packaged him up and put him in the ambulance, and uh, and the the supervisor's like, jump in my car and uh we'll follow him into town. They had four ambulance, four, four Ambos in that vehicle, all working on him. Um as we're driving, obviously the supervisor he's doing his supervisor thing, he's called for a helicopter from Newcastle or wherever, you know, John Hunter, I believe. Um so you know, it's a 25-minute drive to the hospital from there. So I'm just like, fuck. And I'm asking questions, you know, asking him questions. I knew he couldn't answer these questions, but I was still asking anyways. Like, fuck, what do you think's gonna be the outcome? Because at that time I was like, holy fuck. There's so many things going on right now. Yeah, we get to the hospital, you know, they're still they're still working on him, man, to their credit, like they're fucking working hard. Uh take him in, take him into the emergency, and then it, you know, there's a team of about 15 people all working on him. The doctor's giving us updates. It's like, you know, you know, we're trying to get trying to get Roska, we're trying to get some rhythm, just trying to get something. Uh they worked on him for probably half an hour, enough time that the helicopter arrived from from John Hunter, uh, and the the helicopter crew were in the room with us too. Uh and then the doctors come over and he's like, Look, mate, we've been at it for a bit. Um he's like, we've done done a blood gas analysis. Uh he hasn't got you know, he hasn't got anything in him. He's like, we're gonna have to stop.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:29

It's like, yeah. And he's like, even if we could get him back now, he'd be nothing. You know, it'd be he'd be a fucking vegetable. So we had to we made the call and and they stopped by that time because I called my parents on the way and I was like, look, it's fucking name, you know, it's not looking good.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

They came and you know, we were all there with him when they when they stopped and then they just let us have time, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:30

And I I remember when as soon as they called it, I just went and picked him up and I fucking laid on the bed with him.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:09

All right, uh, we're back from just a quick break. Um, I I just can't fathom You know, it it gave me shivers when you first reached out to me and just hearing that story now, mate, like it's just that's fine. Man, there's there's n just nothing worse in this world. Honestly, nothing. There And like a like we'll just you know, we just quickly had a break, get another coffee down our guts. You know, if there if there was a fucking God and he goes, mate, it's either you or your kid, take me. Take me, take me, take me. If you can save ten, take me. Take me and torture me.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:57

Yeah, 100%. Fucking put me in hell, can't like do the worst possible thing you can do to me, but give that life. Yeah. And and like I said, I'd tell you a story. About a year or so after that, I I had to get a a fire permit to burn a book a bonfire. Anyway, the dude comes around and you know, did the formalities, and then he's like, Oh, he lived around the you know, around the loop from me. And he's like, Oh, I'm really sorry about your your son. I was like, that's that's okay, man. Like it's not, you know, you don't need to be sorry, you didn't do anything. And he goes, Oh yes, but he goes, he's German, and he goes, Oh, but Jesus had a plan for your son. I said, What'd you fucking say? Oh, Jesus, he had a plan for your son, and uh lucky has a plan for everybody. I said, mate, what was his fucking plan to take my fucking three-year-old son? He wasn't even three, like I buried him on the Monday, his third birthday was that Friday. I was like, mate, get the fuck out of my house. Don't fucking tell me that that God had a plan for my fucking kid's life. I don't want to hear it. But anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:15

Mate, I'll get it. I get it. I'm not a believer, so nah, fuck. It's if it like I've I've said it on a podcast before, mate, if there's a god and he's a cunt. He's a cool card. As soon as I meet him up there, I'm gonna put one right on his fucking chin. Like it's just yeah, mate. Uh anyway. Let's just get clear of fucking religion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

Anyway, so we'll go yeah. We'll crack back on.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:42

Yeah, mate, like we'll go into you know whatever you want to talk about. This again, this is your podcast. Yeah, and this but you know, this is yeah, this is your story.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:49

This next bit's really special to me. Um when we were still at the hospital, I remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:58

Uh sorry, this isn't John Hunter?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:00

No, this is a Koff. Still in Koff. He wasn't up that far. He never got that far. Uh he was gone, mate. Like he was gone before the ambulance even got there. Yeah, I remember I walked out the door and the ambulances were all there. You know, they were still there. They wanted to know the outcome. And uh one of the ladies, if she's listening to this, contact me. Because like I I feel like I owe them personally. She just walked up and gave me a big hug and she's like, I'm sorry. And then uh then the you know, obviously, because it's a death, the cops come. The two detectives. Uh, one of the guys I went to school with his younger brother, really nice guy, like this detective, absolute legend. And and another guy, it turns out this this other detective was um the one that pulled me in for the storage shed. That was him. And he just hugged me. He just walked in, hugged me, and he's like, mate, I'm fucking sorry. And he's like, but we have to do this part. Um you know, you have to do the identification part then and there. Yeah, so he's so we both walked in to where to where Nate's body was. This is still like this is in the moment, you know what I mean? This is still fresh. Um, he's still on that same recess bay. And uh Dougie, fucking champion. If he's listening, thank you. That's a detective detective. I I won't say his full name, but Dougie is his nickname. Dougie and Guy, the two detectives.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:37

Um he's walked in and just broke down. Didn't say anything. He just walked in, looked at him, and then walked out in tears.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:51

And uh we walked out together. And uh he hugged me again and he's like, I'm so fucking sorry. And he's like, I'm so sorry that we need to do this. He's like, but uh, I need permission to go to your house. I said, mate, do it, do whatever you need to do. I don't give a fuck. Fucking turn my house upside down. I don't care, mate. Just go and do what you gotta do. And um yeah, and another mate called me because he found out what was happening. Word got out pretty quick, man. I don't know how, but I got out pretty quick. And um, yeah, my mate called me and he goes, I'll come pick you up from the hospital. Like, yeah, yeah, cool, like fucking those man, come grab me. And he pulled up and he goes, Where is he? I was like, Oh, he's he's in there, and he's like, I need to see him. Because uh, this guy and another one of my really close mates, we have three boys, all the same age, all born within like a month or two of each other. So they were the little boy crew, you know, little mates. I said, No man, you don't want to do that. And he's like, mate, I need to go and fucking see him and uh and say goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:13

And he did, he fucking walked in there and did the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:18

He walked in there and said his goodbyes and broke down as well. Like fuck that hits, man. That hits fucking hard. And and I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that respect from him anyway. He came, he came and you know, obviously we we did what we had to do, and all the family got to hug him, and we got some of his hair, we cut some of his hair off, and and um yeah, my mate Chris. We he drove me out to my house and all the all the cops were there, you know. The uh the big boss detective was there because it was pretty big deal forensics, you know. You had the whole show there because it's it's an unexpected deal, it's just standard procedure, I believe. And they all one by one came up to me and said the same thing, like paid their respects. And uh for me, man, that was like I'd gone from fucking hating cops thinking they were cunts to being like, whoa, the the humanity that these blokes showed. I was like, you guys are fucking alright. To have the big boss come up to me like that and say, mate, I'm fucking so sorry. That was that was a good feeling, you know, in in all the shit for me. That was hot that there were some highlights.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:50

And they all knew your background. Oh you know what I mean? Like obviously that for Jack Demon's he for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:57

And that's what I and that's what I said to him at the hospital. And I said, mate, obviously we've got history. Uh and fuck I love the cunt for this. Um I said, obviously we've got history. I haven't had a very good run with cops. Uh it is what it is, man. Whatever you whatever you you're doing, do it. And he's like, mate, this is the fucking worst day of your entire life. I'm not gonna make that any harder for you. He's like, I'm we're only gonna do what we have to do, and that's it. And and that that was the end of it. That's the end of story. He's like, I'm not gonna fucking make any anything of this. You know, there was nothing that they could do anyway, but he was just like, nah, I got you. And that that was like, yeah, you're a fucking champion. And and I I've seen him since then. I actually seen him on a uh we did a a search together for a missing girl. And as soon as he saw me, he came up to me and he's like, Tag him with me, mate. Like this is why, you know, I was there as SES. And he came up and grabbed me and he's like, come and walk with me. And we just chat chatted for fucking that whole that whole day. So yeah, Dougie, if you're listening, champion. Shout out, shout out to Dougie and Guy, mate, the other detective guy, guy is his name, not not the guy. Um he gave me his personal number and he's like, mate, if you have any issues, fucking call me. Doesn't matter when it is, just call me. Yeah, that's cool. It's good to see that the humanity, yeah. So yeah. But I get like I said to you before, I I we're talking about afterwards, mate. Um, you know, we had the Organized a funeral and and all that sort of jazz. They sent his body down to down here to Newcastle, I believe, to the corner. They did their piece and sent him back. And but I still don't think I still don't think that the situation had fully sunk in. And it wasn't until he came back, his body came back. And uh we're at the funeral home. And and I like I said, when I walked into that room and and there's his body I I was in denial.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:42

I was like, that's not him.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:46

Because it was like looking at a doll, mate. Like your frozen fucking kid there laying on a laying on a bed. I was like, no, that's not him So the whole family came in. You know, my mum and dad And yeah, when they all left the room I just sat with him you know for five or ten minutes on my own and then that was it. Walked out never saw him again.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:42

No I don't know what to say. I just don't know what I honestly I can't I can't. I've just got nothing to say.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:50

You don't need to say anything, man. Yeah. You don't need to say this is what I tell people people all the time. They're like fuck I'm so sorry. But what you don't have to be sorry, like there's nothing, you know, there's nothing anyone has done wrong. Yeah, you just don't you don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:11

And as a fucking parent, man, like um I guess you know, uh a few few weeks move forward and are you are you getting back to work? Are you I did nothing back to SE's nothing just nothing?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:34

No, I was fucking just I was off it mate. I was off it. I remember I can't remember if it was before like that this whole time of my life is really a blur, mate. And the the years leading up to and and post that incident are a fucking blur. I I my memory's pretty bad of that time.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:57

Um that's what the brain does to protect trauma man, right? Trauma, yeah. 100% it does, mate. It's yeah, I don't know, not all too well.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:06

And yeah. The the I got a phone call from one of the guys who I was on the nav course with actually, and uh he's like mate, I've put in an application for you for the funeral cost to be covered by the SEOs. It was like uh at that time I didn't give a fuck, mate. I didn't care who I didn't I wasn't thinking about money or or anything like that. I was like, thanks, man, but like I don't care, I don't want anything to do with it. And he's like, he goes, I just need your permission. I was like, whatever. So he he he did that, um, and then and then my unit commander uh he took took charge of that as well. And then there's an organization, so they do they did pay for something in my in my time there. Um they're called the SES VA, the Volunteers Association. Uh initially they were like, yeah, fair cool, like this happened on our terms, on our time. Uh we'll pay for that. And then they reneged on it. Because someone started a GoFundMe for us, and they're like, Oh no, the money's uh in the GoFundMe. And and the GoFundMe was it was only like the the I say only, but fuck it was a huge thing. Um it was 20k and and you know the funerals are pretty it was about 15 grand. Oh, I don't know, I didn't even look. Um they're like, oh no, we're not gonna pay for it because there's other funds there now. And that's when my unit commander really stepped up and he was like, nah, you fucking cunts like this guy's just lost his kid doing training for us. The least you can do is pay for that. Uh so they did. It it went back and forth for a while. Uh I got some acknowledgement off the commissioner. He he wrote me a letter and he's like, Under I I don't know if it was Smethurst at the time or or Dan, uh I can't remember which one it was. But yeah, they wrote me a letter being like, fuck, you know, acknowledging your time and and your loss, basically. So I get I guess that was a good thing. But yeah, the next oh man. I don't know how long. I I didn't I had to do something, right? I couldn't sit around and did you almost go off the rails again? Nah. No.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:34

So that was completely left by.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:36

Completely gone, man. That's wild, isn't it? Yeah, and and it's funny because like heaps of people I'd heaps of people being like, fucking don't top yourself, cunt. And I was that didn't even come into my mind once. Because like that's a disrespect to his memory.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:55

He wouldn't want me I think everyone was probably just relating your history and thinking your unpredictable history. Yeah, you know what I mean? Daily son, unpredictable history.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:06

Yeah, or how they would deal with it themselves, you know. Like, but not once. No, not once when that first happened was I like fuck, I'm done. Um I think if anything, I there was definitely times post that where I was like, fuck well, like you know, you get those fleeting moments where you're like, this is what I do now, yeah. Yeah, what the fuck do I do now? Um but yeah, there's a cup, like there's a core group of mates who just stopped working too for a couple of weeks. Oh, didn't they? Yeah, man. And just hang with you. Just hang with me. Yeah. It's good mates there. That's good mates. Mate, good mates, good mates. Uh yeah, and one bloke like cancelled his job and shit to to stay with me. And those dudes, if I overwin the lotto man, they're the dudes that are getting it. They're yeah, like I said, rock solid. Um see I did I don't know how long I didn't do much for. I remember when I did try and go back to work, I had a fucking breakdown.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:07

Back to construction stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:09

So that your day day to day is kind of carpentry stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:12

Carpentry, yeah. Um But I I guess what what changed in me then was my attitude. Uh and it's still in effect now, like I don't fucking have I don't tolerate shit. I'll tell anyone to get fucked, you know. I don't have time for your bullshit. And that that I started to get really arrogant like that. Whether I was I guess you're grieving, you don't know what the fuck's going on, what your emotions are doing. Yeah, I we so that happened in that was February 28th, that he died. His funeral was like yeah, his funeral was like the 8th of March, and then his third birthday was the 13th of March. So after that, you know, you wander lost, mate. That's your only kid. It's that was my whole purpose for for turning my life around was for that kid. So it's like, what do I do now? Where do we go from here? And we went me me and Andy's mum, we we did a road trip, we just packed up the house and fucking had someone come and stay there while we're gone, and and we just left. We went down to Tassie and do what you have to do to to get through, you know. We didn't really talk much. Uh there was some stuff like leading up to his death in the relationship, it was fucking shit. Like wasn't wasn't a good relationship. Um so yeah, we didn't we didn't really talk much. We did after that, I think that was the proper, you know, the end of the end of the end. But we did we did go on to have another baby because I was like, what what are you when all you know in your life is being a parent and you lose that child, what what do you do? Like you have to you have to keep going. Yeah. I mean she wasn't she's like, I don't know if I can be a mum again. Um I was like, well the only you know the only thing we can do is try. And uh yeah, we had we had another baby in 20 2016, Rebel, my little rebel, but she dislike her old man. I hope not, mate. Well now, yeah, but previous Jason, probably not. No, she's a she's a wild ass kid. So my partner now, uh Maddie, fucking love her a bit. She's a psychologist, so she's Oh, geez. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's she's just finished her her um her master's degree, so oh wow, yeah. Um so she's all over it. She'll yeah, she she sees the behaviors, even she's calls me out every day. She's like, and at the moment my ADHD is really bad, and she's like, I'm fucking arguing with everyone, mate.

unknown 1:38:10

Everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:12

I call her and she's like, tell me something, and I'm like, nah, that's not it, that's not right. She's like, you're just looking for arguments at the moment. But yeah, anyway, that's another story.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:27

As you said, you separate with uh well, yeah, we had the former, yeah. We had another baby, yeah. She's what she's ten now. Yeah, she just turned ten a couple weeks ago. A year older than my nine-year-old, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:39

Yeah, yeah. In 2017, uh we went our separate ways. I I was actually in it at TACMED um seeing Jeremy. Shout out to Jeremy Mad Dog. Um come on the potty, you prick.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:54

I've been trying, I've been trying for so long. I told him so many stories to everyone that comes on, they're like, Oh, get Jeremy Holler on. I'm like, I'm trying.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:02

I tried too, man. Yeah, I tried. I I when I when we talked about me coming on here, I called him man, he's my go-to for life advice. Uh love to do to bits, and uh, I was like, Man, you gotta go on there, and he's like, He goes, I've already told my stories, like I'm not really into it. I was like, mate, just do it. Yeah, that's it, yeah. I'll keep breaking him down.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:29

Yeah, well, that's it. Yeah, mate, if you're listening, it's it's then it's not just for you, it's for you. And the Zillemers podcast, it's one of the biggest ones here in Australia.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:37

And and he so he did life on the line, I believe. Yeah, he did, yeah. Um, and and that's a bit politically correct, that podcast, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:44

Mine's a bit, yeah. Yours yours is for dudes like me. And mate, Jeremy, yeah, 100%. Come on, mate. He's he's saved life and he's taken life. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Fuck. And we can go deep into those stories too. Killer kilo?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:56

Yeah. I remember my first job on the ranger. I met some dudes, some OG Bravo Company dudes, and they're like, Oh, Jess, oh, kid, killer kilo. I was like, what do you mean, killer kilo? Like, yeah, fuck that guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:09

So you gotta tell me that story. Anyway, I called him up, was like, hey, killer, what are you doing? Yeah, he goes, Who the fuck are you talking to?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:19

Uh but no, anyway, so I was in there and uh I didn't really know where I was going in life, you know. I was just sort of meandering after that incident, spent a couple of years. I was still actively, I eventually went back to the SES and from there I did um I did a whole tranche of courses. I a big one for me. I did flood rescue down at Penrest Whitewater well, uh whatever they call it, you know, the Yeah, the yeah, the White Water drafting. Yeah, I've been there once a yeah. Um which personally for me was a big one because it's like dealing with water, yeah, and it's uh almost controlled drowning. Like you get pummeled going down that. Oh yeah, yeah. Uh so yeah, that was I did that, and then that's when I did vertical rescue as well. I think I did my vertical rescue course at the end of 2015. Uh so but yeah, I I got back into the unit, got got actively engaged again. Uh yeah, I wasn't gonna let that beat me in life. But yeah, 2017, uh, I got a job offer in Perth from a dude, uh, a company called SDS. He goes, Oh, so you're looking for work? Jeremy goes, Oh, Jace is looking for work. Oh, mate, so I go, Oh, you're looking for a job, eh? I was like, Yeah, I don't know, am I? He goes, Oh, do you want to come to Perth and work for me? Yeah, I said, What are you doing? And at the time they they had the uh the contract for the ship management for the Anzac class frigates doing like the onboard rescue and for for construction works or whatever they were doing. I was like, mate, that sounds cool. Sign me up. So yeah, I took off in uh took off in May, I went and did a cert for in healthcare, like a like a uh pre-hospital, like uh similar to a diploma in paramedical science. I don't know if I put that in there. Just some medical training and then yeah, kicked off working on the ships as a as rescue.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:28

Before all that though, there is the massive floods in March, April, oh 2017. So just yeah, just tie off, you know, that last so you know, 2015, uh rough year. End of that year, you do some courses, rescue, vertical rescue, yeah, flood training, etc. Obviously the SES life continues on for that, you know, until you move uh out west. There's obviously a couple of jobs pop up. Didn't when did you get to do any rescue, vertical rescue stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:01

And I can't I can't remember if we if we did some VR stuff, it was only just like like trivial shit, you know? Yeah. Uh nothing significant. Uh but there was it's funny, when I was doing my vertical rescue course, I was driving, we did it in Grafton, I was driving the back road, and uh we came across a head-on. I I think I mentioned that. This is one one of the ones that for me sort of uh it's one I think about a little bit. Uh it was two young guys, they were neighbours, they literally lived across the road from each other. One was coming home from a rave, they crashed into each other, yeah. In a hundred zone man, like head-on, one was coming home from a rave and one was going to work. So, you know, it was like me, uh the way I looked at it, because I used to fucking drive off my guts. I didn't have a licence for years, so I was like, I got nothing to lose. Um, so I I was that kid, um he was fine. His oldies came down, grabbed him, whisked him away quickly back to his house. And this other kid, poor kid, was trapped in the car, had a compounded fracture in his ankle, he was trapped pretty badly. Um he didn't die, but he had you know pretty bad injuries. Uh, but yeah, that's that was one that that I think about quite often because I was like, man, that could have been me back in the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:26

Uh and you're part of that rescue, yeah. Cutting him out. Yeah, yeah. So just talk about this this scenario, because again, this is what I was talking about earlier about people not understanding what the SES do. And this is for example, one thing that you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:39

Yeah, one thing that we do, road crash. Uh and and man, you were there with the cops, sorry. Uh we were there before the cops. You were just there, yep. Yeah, uh um, yeah, it's not doesn't happen often, but we're often, you know, we can be there first before the police get there, and we just crack into it. Ambulance are always there first, and they they're like, we need to hurry up or we've got a bit of time, you know, it's always on their lead. So yeah, we had to uh it was pretty badly mangled, yeah, because it was right on right, so it was driver side to driver side. Um his feet were all crumpled up in the footwell, you know, pushed into the dash. So yeah, that was as far as rescues go, it was a standard rescue, uh, but still a decent job. Got him out in time, like you know, in a decent time, sent him on his way.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:32

What's the scenario here? Like obviously sorry, I know the scenario, but what what are you doing? Like, are you you got the jaws of life, you got the whatever tools to do what you need to do?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:42

Yeah, we have a we have quite a range of hydraulic equipment to do that. Um usually involves a few cuts, like strategic cuts, and then using a ram to just you essentially fold the whole front of the vehicle forward, uh, and that will expose the the footwell, and then from there you can work out what else you need to do uh to get those feet out because usually it's like an offset head-on, like that, that's called, where it was only like half the front of the vehicle. Um they're usually good for for crushing people's feet in in the footwell, and it's yeah, it's it's quite cool to learn and see this stuff in effect. It actually is really easy when you think of when you when once you're in the process, it's that muscle memory. But yeah, so yeah, you know, we we cut the doors off, put some cuts in the roof, cut the windscreen out, and then just essentially, yeah, use a ram, push the whole fold of the vehicle in half the opposite way to which it's bent. Quite quite funny. As a volunteer. As a volunteer, did it for free. Spent all day doing rescue training on the way home, do a rescue. Pop in for a quick road crash.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:57

Yeah. And like just over your SES career, how often were those motor vehicle accidents for you to respond to?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:06

Oh, there's always for for me personally, I I couldn't get to everyone, you know what I mean? Of course, yeah. Um, but there's there's periods there where you were doing you know, the unit was doing a couple a week. And like I said, they might be minor in town, 60k or you know, an old bloke. Uh another more serious one, we did a multiple ejection, a rollover with a multiple ejection. It had uh five occupants.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:29

But your experience in rollovers, which a story we missed. But anyway, move on go go forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:37

Uh yeah, we are with that one. The driver got ejected. It was they were coming down a dirt hill. The driver got ejected first, she was fine. Uh, she was the first person to eject, but each roll of the vehicle, a passenger was ejected, so it rolled, you know, four or five times, and there were some pretty, pretty badly damaged dudes in that. That was not an extrication for us, but it was more like an assist in in recoveries. Uh so yeah, that was a pretty, pretty gnarly one. And we've had uh incidents like that on the main highway out the front of the big banana. There was the same thing, there was an ejection there that we went to a rollover and someone got ejected from their vehicle.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:17

And you're the big banana, yeah. It's like fucking 60k, 60k zone, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:21

Yeah, and that was a that was a multi-vehicle. That was uh I believe there was like three or four vehicles involved in that. And and for me, with with road crash, uh, with any rescue, really, uh after losing Nate, the first like my biggest fear was having to cut someone's kid out of cars. And and for me personally, if I saw a baby seat, I'd be like, nut. Uh fortunately, I I never had to do that. I never had to to extricate a a sick child. Um so yeah, that's something that that that played in my mind quite often. Was fuck, I hope I never have to do anything involving kids because I I couldn't.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:09

And like we we speak about those cops, you know, mate. You you're not the first and you're not the last. Like how many people have they, how many kids like again? I've had multiple cops and stuff on the podcast, but even just ambo's like fucking my my brother's wife's in ambo, she's been in amber for 15 whatever years, but yeah, the people that like how do you do it? I don't know. I I just full praise to the first responders, man. Like it's just I don't know how they fucking do it, man. I just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:39

Yeah, I know, man. It's it's a tough one. And I I guess you like like veterans, man, everybody compartmentalises. You just keep this shit and let it build up and build up until it it can't build up anytime. Sure, yeah. Um and I'm guilty of that. I I still, like I said to you prior to this, I don't tell this story very often. I don't talk about it often. I try and avoid it, really. I guess that's why the whole memory around that, you know, that few years is a bit shit because I don't want to think about it. There's a lot of like I said earlier, there's a lot of things that I did with the SES rescues and that around that time where I have no recollection of at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:22

You're just floating through life.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:24

Just floating. Yeah. Just floating, yeah. And it's not it's probably really been probably since I met my current partner in 2020. That that I stopped floating. Like I floated for a long time. She did a bit of psychology on her.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:40

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:42

Waving the stick in front of your eyes and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:45

Just just getting me to check myself, you know. Yeah. And that's what sometimes you need. Because a lot of people would be like, Oh, are you alright? And you, yeah, man, I'm fucking good. And then they'd that's it. She's like, You're not okay. I can see that you're not okay. That's probably what I needed.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:05

So yeah, um 2017. Just quickly, sorry, what what is the process? Uh I don't know if we spoke about this earlier, but we spoke about it offline. You're in the SES. Again, this is uh a rural area, Coff's Harbour, regional. As I said, you are the primary rescue.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:23

We are the primary rescue unit, and with that comes body recoveries. Yes. Uh any sort of rescue that you can imagine. Anything to do with rescuing. Um volunteer unit. A volunteer unit. Not a cent. For a classic example, right? And this happened before I was in the unit. Um, there was a really bad truck accident in Coughs on the highway. Uh the dude was asleep in his cab. Another truck rear-endered him, set fire to that truck. Truck burnt down. Old mate was in it. It it was the responsibility of the SES to get that body out of that vehicle, out of that crumpled truck. Uh, and volunteers. That's uh it's a big that's a big thing. Uh there's nothing like the smell of burnt burnt human, and that's man. Yeah. That's a big thing for a hundred percent volunteer all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:20

100% it is. Um before we crack on with the flood, before you head out west, what's the process? You you're sitting at home, you get a text message. Like we spoke about, you know, obviously, you know, when the ambulance screamed past, you were expecting a text message. Well is that the what what's the deal here? How does that work? Because I do have a couple of friends that I hunt with, and one of them is in the SES. Yeah. And same thing, you can hear the phone go off all the time. Like, fuck, what's happening? Oh, that's just it's a job going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:47

Yeah, back then it was all text message, you just get a text message, uh, no response required. You either turn up and it comes with the type of job Oh, does it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be like VR, RCR, whatever the job is, flood, um, and then storm. Like it would that would be the headline, you know, storm water, road crash rescue, vertical rescue, body recovery. But uh that would be attached to something like it'll be vertic vertical rescue. For example, we did a a hanging uh vertical rescue body to be extricated from ceiling. Um then it's like oh fuck, Rhino. No idea what you're about to walk into. To me, that says someone's gone up in the roof and had a fucking heart attack. Um yeah, so that that that's how that that's the process. Now I believe it's changed. I think it works on a on an app, and you give you know your thumbs up, thumbs down. I'm not up with apps, so I'm still old school. Yeah. I'd still prefer a text message, but I'll probably ignore it now. Yeah, so that that's the process, and then you respond. If you and and the deal was if you were more senior, you and you had you were near the scene or you had to drive past the scene, you would just respond in your own vehicle. To the location. To the location. Obviously, you you've got no permission to like fucking fang through the streets at 200ks an hour. That shit doesn't fly. You just turn up there, um, depending on the job, just do a quick scene assessment, you know, get organised before the guys get there, uh, and then crack into it, whatever the job is.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:25

But otherwise you'd go to go to the unit the unit or the station, yeah, and jump in a truck.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:30

Yeah, sorry, you did ask this before. Um you would jump in, there's a there's like a rapid response truck, you know, it's usually the first two more senior people, uh, and and one of those guys will then become like the scene commander, uh rescue officer, whatever you want to call it. Uh so they would get there first while the other truck fills up and then rolls out, and then from that point it's whatever else, whatever other assistance is required. You know, it could be a night time a significant crash at night time where you need scene lighting. So you keep some guys back at the unit. We need this kit. Because obviously the trucks can't carry everything, they're not that big.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:12

What colour lights are they? They got blue and red lights, yeah. Red and blue. So you can't they can once you're in those trucks, then you can Yeah, definitely. Then you can break the law.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:19

Then you then you can break the law. Yeah, perfect, perfect for me. Yeah. Um permission to break the law. But yeah. Finally. Yeah, finally, yeah. I can do this shit for real. Yeah, so all the all the vehicles, and I can't speak for all units because I'm not too sure, but uh all vehicles have red and blue.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:39

Yeah, and obviously you you're talking about Coffs Harbour.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:42

Coffs Harbour, yeah, Coff's Harbour specifically. And I again, like I said to you offline, I don't know many other units that that have the capability that we have uh or had on again. I'm out now, I don't know what the units, what their position is. Um but yeah, you could be like I said, at the time before I was leaving, we could respond to vertical rescues for a an hour, two hour drive away. So yeah, pretty wild. Because there's no other there's there is no other organization that has the capability that the SES does other than police rescue, like for vertical rescues. I don't think I could be speaking out of school here. I'm not too sure how many fire and rescue units have that vertical capability. I believe it's like VRA um VRA units definitely do. Uh police rescue. Police rescue is a big one, obviously, around this area. I think they do all that sort of stuff. Yeah, it's wild. Wild what's expected of volunteers.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:53

Mate, you just government fucking ripping off ripping off ripping off the people, isn't that?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:58

And vertical rescue, man. That's one of the dangerous 100% it. That is one of the dangerous rescues you can perform is a vertical rescue. Um usually when they're happening, they're off cliffs or like I said to you before.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:13

Especially in that area of Coffs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:15

Yeah, and that this region. Yeah, and it's definitely happened, man. Like um I I believe it was before I can't remember. Again, pretty blurry, but like I I said to you when we chat, there was a a young guy who threw himself off a cliff, you know, just north of Coffs, and that that was a VR job. There was no one other than Westpac that had the capability to get that guy out. He ended up getting winched out with the hilo. Um yeah, everyone, you know, fire is turn up and all just stand around and have no idea what the fuck they're gonna they're doing.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:54

Crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy. Uh now, as we spoke about the floods, mate. So I'm just gonna quickly google the floods so I know refreshes my mind. Just tropical cyclone Debbie. That's the one, yeah. Oh Debbie the bitch. Debbie she just came in and fucked everything up.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:12

Oh, didn't she fuck everything up?

SPEAKER_04 1:58:14

She did, yeah. And Debbie did generally if there's someone out there named Debbie the big old ladies do.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:21

Sorry for any Debbie's listening. Yeah, but or they're or they're really aggressive. That's yeah, that's why they what are we gonna call this one? Debbie. Yeah, Debbie. Let's not call it Sally, that's that's sucker weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:36

Uh yeah, so uh extropical cyclone Debbie, yeah, catastrophic flooding across central southeast Queensland and northern rivers, yeah, northern region of yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:47

So I I was I took a team up, I was team leader on that actually. Um I can't remember if we went one or two vehicles, two crews. Because you're the flood the flood guy now.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:57

Well slash rescue.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:59

I was the more senior rescue qualified, uh I believe at that time I'd had my state rescue board accreditation. And a couple of jobs underneath belt. A couple of jobs, yeah, a bit of knowledge. Um uh yeah, so I think we took two crews. We had some some like level three techs. I wasn't a level three tech man, I wasn't I wasn't keen to you know get it right out there amongst it in a fucking wetsuit. Um yeah, so we had a couple of those guys that that were getting bloody dropped in out of helicopters in their little inflatable boats volunteers, volunteers risking their lives to save the community.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:43

It was in Lismore? In Lismore, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:45

Yeah, so I went straight to the worst flood since the 70s. Is it? Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:50

Man, it was 11 point, I'm just reading it here, 11.6 metres the river peaked at. That is fucking Mariana Trench shit right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:58

And I tell you what, uh at night driving around in that floodboat, and we're like, you look over the side and you're like, what's that? It's the street light underneath the water. That's how much water was in there. Like out of control. You'd be driving along and then And moving too. And move. Uh no, so once it gets into Lismore, it's pretty stale, it's pretty static, yeah, because it's like a big boat.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:23

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:24

Um, and they have to have a pumping station to pump it out. Yeah, but obviously in that volume of water, there's nothing they can do. Um, but yeah, and like you'd be driving along, what's that in the distance? It's power lines, you're at the level of the power lines, like, and the power is still on because the lights are on underneath you. You're like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 2:00:46

And what's your obviously your primary role is rescue. So what are you doing cruising around in a in a in a skiff and just Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:54

So at night time I uh I was in the tinnies. Yep. In the daytime, I was in the operations centre as a tasking officer. Uh so any jobs that come through, uh, I was given that list of jobs. We had to do our best to prioritize and then and then locate our crews and try and get the nearest crew. So probably not really that complex, but when in a situation like that when there's I can't remember, it might tell you how many how many rescues were done during that. I think it was several hundred. I could be wrong. Several hundred calls for assistance. Google knows everything. Yeah, Google knows everything. I can't remember. Rescues, brother.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:40

This New South Wales State Emergency Service undertook 491 flood rescue activations. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:48

Yeah. Uh and and a lot of them, uh, it's worth mentioning were not true flood rescues. Just people sitting on a house type thing. Yeah, or people like, oh, the water's touching my driveway.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:01

You're up on a hill, oh the water's getting close to my driveway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:04

You better get it. Meanwhile, there's houses underwater and people sitting on top of them.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:07

People had to go through their roofs, yeah. Go through the ceiling, go through their roof, if tall roof, get on top so we could pluck them out of there. Because and it and this this shits me too. Um, people know that this is happening, people know it's coming, they've got the warnings, and they're like, no, I'm gonna stay, I'm not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:25

No, that's it though. Yeah, it's not like a tsunami where it happens instantaneously, it takes generally 24 hours before it to hit that. Definitely get out of there.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:35

And when we got activated, uh had it already gotten intense? No, so when we got there, it started to the tempo started to pick up of rescues. So I was like I said, in the daytime I was tasking officer, um, yeah, sort of organising people where to go.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:54

And then at night you're on a in in a boat. In a boat. How many blokes in a in a tinny? Uh two, three. And what what like what's the what do you what are you doing? Just cruising around and house-to-house type thing and just seeing if there's people there.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:07

Same thing, yeah. Or you might get a a call and be like, you need to go to this street. And again, man, it's how do you know what's how do you navigate it? Street signs are fucking underwater. Yeah, yeah. So it was trying to figure out um where to go to get these people. But it was good because it was pretty the rescue area wasn't massive, so you could sort of figure out where you gotcha, gotcha from landmarks, you know what I mean? Like and and and as tasking officer, this is what you had to work out. There'd be a a street, right? You'd have to work out what landmark was out of the water and then be like, you need to go this direction, that direction. Uh to free.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:46

Would you like with the tillers here? Tillisty is it just smacking on things as well? Like you.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:50

Oh yeah, yeah, driving over the top of cars. They've got big cages uh around their property. Of course, yeah, they're um, so you can't damage the prop. But yeah, driving over the top of cars, driving over the roofs of shops. Pluck a few people out of houses. Yeah, yeah, definitely. A ton, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:05

Um a lot of old people, obviously. And then, you know, we talk about it before people had warning, but there's obviously just yeah, old people just don't give a fuck either. Like, I'm not fucking leaving.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:13

Or they might be incapable. Well, that's a yeah, uh, and they were the ones that we try to prioritize, of course. Um, not just some, you know, and and families with kids, yeah. And then you sort of because there were so many coming through. We didn't get like rescue everybody, there was other people that didn't need it, like I said, simply because it was an inconvenience rather than rather than an actual threat. Um, but yeah, it was crazy, man. And to see the pilfering, uh people pumping around the streets in uh in kayaks, just getting whatever they could, float like packets of cigarettes or alcohol. Oh man, it's the wild west. And I I did um I spent one night with police rescue just pumping around with them, like driving. I was driving uh I can't remember if it was their vehicle or our vehicle, towing their boat, and then they'd be like, I just jump in, man. Like there's no point waiting here. And they were just driving around, and again, they weren't doing rescues, they were more just keeping it on, just sticky beef. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so that was pretty cool to work with those guys. But yeah, there's more floods. I haven't seen anything like it since.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:21

How many SS were there?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:23

Oh, from my unit, I think we we went up with maybe eight or ten. Um yeah, we took all our level three techs, uh, a few floodboat operators and and crew, and then just some some general lackeys too. Yeah, there was there was a few, but uh man, they were coming from everywhere. Dudes coming from Sydney, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:48

Um, I was actually It's the hardest part too, because you have these floods, you have the SES, a volunteer organization. Not everyone, like if you obviously if you're in the SES in Sydney, you're like, man, I I just can't. I can't I can't take three days off work or a week off work because I need fucking this thousand dollars I'm gonna get paid for this job. Yeah, which is where they need to really figure this shit out because there needs to be something. There needs to be yeah, just yeah compensation for your time off and fuck you know, and and it's a necessity. Yes, that's what you do is a necessity. SES is a necessity to maintain still people's shit. Yeah, exactly right, yeah. Yeah, deal with yeah, and you get nothing out of it. Or obviously you get the the satisfaction of doing your job and saving people, etc., and helping the community, but like I said, there's gonna be people that can't take that week off because they're like fuck I can't yeah, I can't afford especially in this day and age.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:47

Even things like so NRMA insurance is a big backer or was, I don't again, I don't know what the current situation is. Um they were a big backer, but they would just give tarps with NRMA written all over, you know, yeah, free branding over houses, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:03

But yeah, but meanwhile they've fucked all those people in their insurance.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:06

Oh yeah, 100%, yeah. But but uh even comp like companies like that, it's a tax write-off for them. Without the SES, their bills would get higher. We we can leave a roof leaking, it's it's not like destroy a whole house if you don't put a tarp over it. Exactly. Yeah. Uh why aren't these guys picking it up? Yeah, you know, give a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:25

Yeah, they should, but mate, the government should be quick to fucking bring ISIS brides back, but not pay our SES guys that want to, you know, yeah support the communities for a week and save lives.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:37

But the also on that, like the recruitment process is pretty loose. Of course you would have. Yeah, to start paying people, you would have I mean they let me in.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:47

But more for the specialized rescue unit or the flood, you know, the yeah, like you said with the rescue guys, uh, we don't have a DVA either. Yeah. So when you think of the mental health aspect, like when my young bloke died, they were like, Oh yeah, do you want us to offer you the chaplaincy service? What the fuck is that? I'll talk to some bloke being like, Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, it's pretty sad. No, I mean, yeah, like I I don't want compensation, but something like that, that is something I think about every single day, and and I'll zone off for 20 minutes and replay that day in my head, right? That whether it's PDS or not, I don't know, probably. It does affect me in life. Um but with other jobs as well, like what do what do we do? You know, you can't sleep at night because of the shit that you've seen. There's no there's no there's nothing. You can't I'm just a chaplain. Yeah, I don't feel like going to work today because of the job, you know, because I just cut some dead cunt out of a car. I'm not going to work today. Where's your support? Where where's your your mental health support there? And the same with the cops, same with the everyone. Again, government there. I don't know. We're probably getting a bit political with what they should be.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:09

No, I get it, yeah, no, I get it, man. Because you got those the SES bosses up there on 200, 300k a year. For what?

SPEAKER_01 2:09:17

It it's a retirement job, like Smethurst, yeah. Obviously, we know who he is, right? Like that was his retirement job to go and be um uh the commissioner of display. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't give a fuck about that job. No, just put me in an office for a year before I retire and get my big fat pension. Uh yeah, they don't they don't even No.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:38

I I yeah, I definitely think there needs to be some sort of money at the bottom just to compensate people for their time. Yeah, and then that's what it is. It's you're you're paying for someone's time.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:49

Yeah. Albow Mac, use your new tax. Oh mate. Support support some organisations.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:53

Yeah, that's it. You're ripping all of us buddy investors off. Yeah. But use some of that money to pay some of these SES guys that save the day when we need it.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:02

Or put some money into the units and make make the equipment better. Like I said to you before, like the Coffs Harbour unit has had lots of equipment, quite expensive equipment, donated that the government's too cheap to buy. And it's like, oh, so now it's been donated to the Coffs Harbour SES, that's now multi-agency equipment. So if the fire is need to use it, they can use it. But you guys have got to take it there. Like the SES has got to take it there so the fire is can use it.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:30

So this is a state government too.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:34

I think we've got to clear this. This is instead of putting all this money into taking like everyone's guns, mate, put it into That's it. Put it into your community. Put it into the communities. Yeah. Yeah, let everyone, you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:46

That's it. And yeah, I guess if you had a retained unit too, it's gonna you know, you then you'd start setting standards for recruitment and yeah, training, and the training's better, and again, yeah, I don't know. The standard you it just seems too logical to me, but no, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for the government. No.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:03

But the standards at when I was at COS, the rescue standards were quite high. If you had qualifications and you didn't turn up the jobs, they were like, why aren't you turning up? Uh but then it became PC. Nothing against like useless cunts, but you don't belong on the truck. Yeah. These are guys that don't have jobs that turn up at the drop of a hat because they've got nothing else to do, but they're useless. They're they're your your hero, you know.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:33

Yeah. The hero mentality. Yeah. But again, because there's no standards. Because there's no standards. Yeah. They're quite low. I mean, look, I was in there. Standards I set the bar pretty low.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:46

But you did you did you did well though. Yeah, I'm sure you've done a a fair bit of stuff during your time. I I've done a little bit, yeah. Uh and I I Which also like we said, it gave you purpose. It did. Outside of you. Yeah. Criminal life.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was fun too. Yeah. But there comes a time when you uh you got to give back. I definitely took a lot, so that's all I thought I'd give back.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:10

Yeah. Uh all right. So from there, obviously you said you move out west as emergency service officer. Yeah. For this, uh for the boat building.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:22

Uh it was actually ship maintenance. So that was still active ships. Oh, were they? Yeah. Yeah, right. Um yeah, it was and and as you know, man, defence is pretty loose with this sort of shit. Um sometimes we would have there was one time we had four boats, all like four of our Anzacs or alongside. Um so they're supposed to come in and you know, they get their tank cleanings done, and we were there for the rescue, you know, if guys went down in the tanks from from uh atmospheric poisons or something like that. So similar to like mine rescue, but you're just doing it for this. This was heavily focused on confined space. Gotcha. Confined space rescue was the biggest part. Uh, and to an extent there was some vertical rescue. We never used any of it. I mean we had plenty of of calls for like toxic hazards, and that's just turned up in in BA and I finally got my I finished my cert four course. Uh mine rescue. NAS healthcare. Oh, gotcha, yep. Because the hold up with that, because I suck man at at reading things and and I can't I can't be educated by textbook, so I had assignments to do, and I just so it once I completed that, got the certificate, and then went to mining to the to the Pilbara, the mining Pilbara.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:42

And then doing the same thing, emergency.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:44

Yeah, more it's a more heavy medical role. Um, you're doing more medical than anything else. Like there's there is plenty of stuff that happened, uh, like a lot of truck fires or or you know, equipment fires and that sort of stuff, but you don't usually do anything, you just let it burn. Um, but yeah, medical is a big thing. And my first ever I was only telling this story the other day. My first ever medical job was like my second day on a mine site. There was a dude who called from his room and he's like, Oh, I can't stand up. And I was on with another ear, so just some old dinosaur that had been doing it forever. And uh we're like, okay, yeah, alright, we'll come see you. Where I he's in his room. We get there and he's like, I can't stand up, I can't lift my arms up. I was like, Oh, you know, done a f I was fresh in the brain with medical treatments, and uh I was like, Oh, this doesn't look good. And the other medic's like, oh, he's probably just got some imbalance in his ear, you know, he's just flown in. I was like, Man, this is more than that. Turns out the dude was having a stroke. Oh shit. This is my first ever medical treatment uh on a mine site. He he we chopped him out. We had uh fortunately there was a construction paramedic, you know, 20 minutes away, and I just called him and I was like, mate, I'm way out of my depth with this dude. Like, you want to come help? So yeah, he ended up it was ended up that he had a stroke. So we yeah, we chopped him out of there and I didn't see him again after that. But yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:15

And then from then it was just you know, you might some days there you might do 10 medical treatments in a day. Yeah. Just a lot of shit, like coughs, colds, sore holes.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:26

Sorry, just reading here, um, your daughter rebel, you were solo parenting. Yeah, yeah, so it's probably worse note. Um Yeah, so you're travelling, you moved Western Show with you with your No, so so I moved to WA.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:39

Um I didn't move there, but I I just looked temporarily relocated uh just to get this shit out of the way. I did 13 weeks, 13 weeks straight without seeing her, and I came back. I remember coming back and she just wasn't doing doing that good, you know. She was what's that 2017? She might have been one, yeah, one one year old. Yeah, I left. That's right, I left on her first birthday. So she's about one, was was struggling. Uh her mum was like, Oh, I don't know what's wrong with her, you know. She's so upset and all this shit. She was like, Righto, let's move her back to Coffs, uh, because because her mum lived in Brisbane. So she she came back to Coff's, stayed with my parents while I was away. And then I then I came back and I was like, no, I'm I'm done with this, done with working big long shifts. So yeah, from that point on, yeah, I was solo parent doing FIFO in and out of the mines. And yeah, when I wasn't there, my parents were looking after her. Shout out to my parents doing doing the grandparent thing. Yeah. So yeah, I and still, still to this day, she's mine. Yeah. Mum just sort of uh I gotta watch what I say because my daughter will listen to this. Um mum wasn't in the right headspace, you know. Uh and I don't know, she had her own things going on, and she was just like, I can't, she's all yours, I can't deal with it, basically. And then that was it. Just running, running back and forth from from the West Coast. And your parents look after her in your way. Yeah, being a dad when I could be at home.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:16

Shin it to your parents, mate.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:18

Mate, what what they have done for me in in my whole life, you know, they've always been supportive, even when I was a piece of shit. They hated it. They would they let you grow fucking weed in the backyard. I don't know if they let me grow. They really I I gave them no option. I'm doing this. But yeah, they they did. And if you're listening, Rebel, no. No, no, no, no, no, don't stay. But she does listen to it. Yeah, she's a mad zero limit system. Oh, is she? Yeah, yeah, right. She's the coolest kid. Like, yeah, uh next time I'm up there, I'll bring the kids up and yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:56

You should have a crack with my nine-year-old, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:58

No, and the young bloke too. So my partner's got a boy who who could I'm his dad. Uh biologically, no, but I'm dad. Yep, yep. Um, and they're the same age, but he's not really into listening to that. No, I I don't know. He's he's into like his Pokemons and you just came on, mate. Tell you what, we're on. Yeah, he would absolutely if he saw that, even if Rebels saw that, like they love it. Yeah, it's quite cool. Um, yeah, my missus really stepped up to like when she came in. When did you meet your missus? Uh 2020. Yep. The start of 2020.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:35

So I I So you're in and out of uh Western Australia.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:39

Yeah, up till about I was thinking about this the other day, maybe 20 2019, 208, uh late 2018, 2019. I was flying back and forth, and then I got a job in the in the Hunter Valley. Um I'd still go back and do some like Navy ship stuff and here and there, but then I got a job in the Hunter Valley again as an air so but it was fing garbage, absolute garbage, uh mundane shit. Not nothing like you know, never got hands-on with anything that whole time. And it's the world went real PC, so that world was real dog eat dog, yeah. Yeah, if you were competent and qualified, you were sort of seen as a threat to those that if you had a voice, and if you had a voice, yeah. Yeah, um, I did try and just sit there and shut the fuck up, but it's hard sometimes, it's really hard.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:32

I get it, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:33

I get it. Yeah, the corporate world, yeah, very corporate. And I I can't live that life anymore. That's why I am where I am, I suppose. Yeah. Um but yeah, that was it was interesting times. Work and then then I got on 2020. Uh 2020, yeah. Jeremy offered me a job at Tac Med. Yeah. Called me up one day while I was on the job site. He goes, mate, uh, do you know anyone? Uh what'd he say? Do you know anyone reliable that can go to Melbourne and pick up a car for me? I was like, it sounds like you're asking me to do it. He's like, Oh yeah, oh yeah, can you do it? Yeah, yeah, bro, I'll go and do that for you. And he's like, Oh, cool, what are you doing Monday? This was on like a Thursday or something. He's like, What are you doing Monday? Do you want to go to Singho? Like, Singo? I fucking had no idea. He's like, Yeah, got some defense stuff kicking off. I was like, fuck, send me. And then, yeah, that was it. Straight into it. First course was uh ROBC in in single. I was like, this is this is cool, this is where it's at.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:34

And what's so what's that doing with tech manager just consulting with medical support, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:39

Yeah, so we we have a driver and and a paramedic. Yeah, so been doing that ever since, and and that's been incredible, man. Like that whole world. Uh we didn't mention there, but I originally I applied for defense, right, in 20. It was 2014. Oh, did they? Oh fuck, mate, they would have looked at your rap sheet and gone. Yeah, shut it down. Yeah, they shut it down. But uh, so I went and did all the piss, you know, your U session, and and I got a full sheet. You know, you do the the U session, they do that testing. They're like, right, oh yeah, um, don't worry, you won't answer all these questions. Funnily enough, ADHD. I was like, fuck you, cunt. I stopped getting questions in my U session and I was like, put my hand up and I was like, um, what I don't know, I can't do any more questions. And they're like, I've never seen this happen. Well, what does that mean? He's like, I don't know, you just sit there and wait now. Uh and then I went in, you know, for the interview, and and the old mate's like, oh, so you've got a full sheet. What do you want to do? I said, mate, I want to do DRS. I want to fucking direct recruitment into commander. And he looked at me and he's like, fuck off. Who the fuck are you? And I was like, nah, that's what I want to do. He goes, mate, I've only ever seen one person walk in off the street and and complete that. I was like, well, you're about to see two. And he's like, so that's your first choice? I was like, yeah, he goes, Well, it's second choice. I said, Infantry. You know, he tried to talk me out of it standard. He's like, nah, you don't want to do that. Like, yeah, whatever. Anyway, I got knocked back. And then I went through the appeals process.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:16

Uh they knock you back because you're a criminal history.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:18

Because of criminal history, yeah. Yeah. Um, which is fair enough. And at that time, like he said, he's like, mate. It's a bit fresh. No, yeah, it's a bit fresh. And he said there's plenty of middle-aged white dudes trying to get in. Yeah. And he he said, honestly, we would prefer some 17-year-old straight out of high school than you. Clean bill of health. Yeah, and and or and someone that doesn't think for themselves.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:41

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:43

100%, yeah. I'd too many life experiences to to to be in that position.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:48

Of course, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:50

Definitely. That's not something that's wrong timings. Wrong timings, yeah. Um little did I know that this is where I would end up working back working there anyway.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:59

Yeah, so essentially what Tacmed's doing is kind of like a like a St. John's. Is it is it what we're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 2:23:06

Like so, so we're we're now the range medics. There's no green medics on the range. Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:12

We're we're you're right, yeah. So every every high range scenario, there's always going to be a TACMED vehicle there with the not not just Tac Med, there is quite a part of the There's gonna be a medic there.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:23

Yes, yeah. Um they have interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:26

It's really interesting, yeah. Times are changing now. I never I think we yeah, we only had military.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:31

Yeah, and especially like at Singh, I don't know if you remember there was there's one central point where they used to keep medics. Now there's a medic on every range. Oh, is there? Yeah. Oh wow. So like ADFRQs was something that I I did quite a lot of, and and there's three ranges running simultaneously. There's a medic on each one of those ranges, like a contract medic. So crazy. Crazy the amount of money they're spending. I don't know why. No one wants to be a medic anymore, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:01

Yeah, I don't know. Don't know, I guess it's just probably easier to, and you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:05

Yeah, and you I mean, if you've got a dude on every range and there's a range going every week, that's well that's it.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:11

I prefer I think it's a better way of doing things because then you know there's a medic on every range as well. Yeah. Again, back then, like and I when I did my shoulder one time on the range after a jump. Yeah, it was military medics that come and got me, but it was like an hour after the incident, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:28

I mean, they're getting like now with their with their CFAs, like they they're pretty good anyway.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:34

Oh, 100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:35

Training's good. Yeah, and they would they would be able to handle most things, you know, almost anything really. At least until more help can come. Um but yeah, that's what we what we're currently doing. Doing a fair bit of that.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:49

Yeah, nice, mate.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:50

Yeah, and that's all over all over New South Wales or Australia wide? That's Australia wide. The only place we don't go is Perth.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:58

Um we s we do here, we we we do um a lot of work in New South Wales, a lot of work. Of course, because singo. Yeah, and holesworthy, man. We we've um yeah, there's some some guys that permanently at Holesworthy. So yeah, it's pretty, pretty busy. Yeah, cool, mate. That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:14

It's good to see the TACMAT over the years get bigger and bigger, and yeah, Jeremy's uh you know, he's he's like one of the OGs of the medical world, especially in the in the military world, so yeah, it's good to see that he's yeah turn it into something and something else people don't know, and we have a minkoffs, we have community first responders, so they're like medically trained people to say like a cert two level that just live remotely that have medical kits, and if there is a triple zero call, they will get called to activate to go to that.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:50

I don't know, yeah. It is the SESO. No, no, no, it's not just a separate these are just it's a separate thing, yeah. Isn't it community? It's pretty cool. Yeah, it is pretty good. Um I do know a guy who was a community first responder. Again, I don't know if it's still a thing, but up up to a few years ago, it was still a thing.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:07

I d I do think everyone should be doing senior first aid or whatever it's called now.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:12

Yeah, well, this is a little bit more advanced, yeah, yeah, like a remote Yeah, just some airway.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:17

I just did one like a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:19

Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. This is just like some airway stuff and and that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:23

Which I think everyone should do. Every adult shouldn't be doing a first aid course, just gives you the basics.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:29

Every parent CPR. Every parent and and I again, this is only from my experience, every parent should have some sort of knowledge like that. Basic. For if something happens to your kids. Because that that was with my situation, you know, my like Nate's mum, she didn't really know CPR. That's it, she'd straight into compressions, yeah. She she didn't know this. Yeah, that's just what I mean, yeah. And and and because she didn't know this, and this is no fault of her own, um, you don't know how to do effective compressions and on a child and your own child because it's pretty brutal. 100%, yeah. Like to be able to do that, you have to do it confidently. You can't half arse about it, otherwise, there's no point doing it at all. Yeah, but yeah, if anyway, every parent should do that.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:19

Yeah, 100% you know, wild uh side story here. I did compressions on a kid in San Diego. Oh, yeah, dude. And mate brought brought the kid back. Did you? Yeah, well, uh Andy, Andy, uh Andy's out there listening, and uh homie. I know you live here in Newcastle. He was there, those two were there with me, and it was wild. It was just wild, mate. Just yeah, so you're you're already legs ahead of me, mate. Wild, wild fucking story, but I don't know. And then we ended up at a strip club in Tijuana like a couple hours later. So that was hopefully not win-win. Hopefully not with the kid. That's a bit weird, but yeah, yeah, like uh what's that movie? Um hangover kid on his yeah, the baby. Mad. But uh yeah, mate, yeah, crazy story, crazy story. But uh, yeah, right, mate. Well, I guess that kind of brings us to the current day of you doing what you're doing now, and obviously while you're here and in the area, we thought we, you know, as I said, you reached out through socials. We spoke, we spoke on the phone, told your story. I'm like, yep, fuck, 100% keen to do this. Again, put more eyes on the SES and exactly what the SES does. Yeah, again, we just thought just the roofers, just putting uh just N RMA tarps over roofs, yeah, just a little umpal umpers run around like a boy water. Again, yeah, areas like Koffs Harbour where it's really reliant on what the SES does.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:45

Yeah, and and and it is very unit specific. I I was fortunate to be in a res in a rescue unit like Koffs. Um again, not everybody gets that opportunity, not every unit is rescue qualified. Uh so yeah, very fortunate. But shout out to the unit, shout out to Kofs Unit. Good.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:05

Yeah, 100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:07

I don't know what they're doing currently. I I talked to a um I talked to a mate of mine the other day about it, and uh he's like, yeah, they've been busy, but with the advan I was in a in a good period with the advancement of cars and like safety technology these days. Well, it's it's getting better. It's getting better, yeah. Yeah, the road crashes aren't as severe as they have been in the past. Cars are getting better, aren't they? Cars are getting better, but they're still doing like they're still doing the the nitty-gritty stuff, like still doing recoveries and well, hopefully one day we everyone's got Tesla's or something, so it's human error, mate.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:43

Honestly, I'd prefer a computer. It's just less error. It's humans are just we're we're the we're the destructions of our own selves, aren't we? Oh mate, we're going society is going pretty backwards.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:54

It is. I fear for what my kids are gonna Yeah what what they're gonna grow into, you know. Yeah. But it's time to come.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:03

That's it, mate. Uh obviously end of the podcast, mate. Couple final questions. Again, the reason why you reached out was that second question. But first question, mate. And it's probably no better person to ask. You know, you've you've you you flipped your life around, and then even after an exposing event, uh, you know, losing your child, and you still maintain carrying on with life. So, mate, first question what advice can you give to people just to keep on keeping on completing any guy they set their mind to and to crush it in life? I'm probably the wrong person to ask that, really. But I don't think so. Why is you could have like I said, you could have ended up dead or you could be yeah, you probably should be in prison.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:41

Should be.

SPEAKER_06 2:30:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:43

I think you've got to have a purpose. Personally, I think you you have to have a purpose. A purpose gives you direction, whether it's good or bad. I don't that that's up to you to decide. But yeah, definitely, and and for me, my purpose now is being a dad, as always has been since I've had you know, that's been my purpose. That's what I've found to help me get through the hard times when I'm having a shitty day, you know. You look at the kids and you're like, Yeah, this is why I do this. So, yeah, purpose.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:13

Yeah, my obviously you had another baby girl, 2024.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:16

Yeah, little Billy. Yeah, yeah. She's awesome. Yeah, well what should be about two, two, two, three years. Uh she yeah, what was she? February yeah. One day in February, eighth, maybe. I'll get shot for it. Yeah, mate, I'll get shot for getting that. Oh mate, me too.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:31

That's so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:32

Yeah, I would have a tranch of 'em. And and the plan, oh we'll leave that one for a minute.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:38

I know what your next question's gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:40

Yeah, fuck mate. Like, yeah, next question. What scares you most in life? Like, and again, this is the reason why you reached out because you're like, mate, I've fucking lived your fear and pretty much every other guest you've had on this podcast's fear. Yeah, is losing your kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:56

And that still is my fear, and and and it's something that I struggle with quite often, especially I did with Rebel leading up to her third birthday, because I at that stage I hadn't had a kid that that had lived past that point. So for me, that was hard. And it still is now like that's my biggest fear to lose one is fucked, but to lose another one, fuck. I don't know, I don't know if I could do it again. Fuck man, I couldn't do it once, let alone twice. I don't even know if I'm doing it now, man. I I still like there's still times where I'm like, fuck, how the fuck am I how am I here?

SPEAKER_04 2:32:34

Yeah, mate, and fuck you know, uh aside as to you know I've seen it with you know one of my mates, Merv McDonald, two commander, he passed away obviously in Afghanistan, and then his brother Percy passed away. And you know, when when I seen his mum, it's like fuck man, like yeah. They're both grown ass men too, you know. So yeah, they've lived somewhat of a life, but fuck man, I just couldn't fathom.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:58

The one thing you should never have to do in life is bury your child. No, uh should be the other way around, innit? Yeah, definitely. Uh we're old and crusty. And it I mean, I'm not the first, I'm not the last. No, there's so many parents in that have been in my position. 100%. Uh and I feel your pain.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:14

Yeah. And that that's why I wanted to share this story, because I'm sure there's someone out there that's listening that's maybe been through it, or fuck heaven forbid, they go through it. Yeah. And you know, there there is a a light at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:28

And yeah, definitely. You just gotta find that light.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:31

Yeah, like you said, find that purpose. Find that purpose. It's wild, you found that purpose within the SES.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:37

A volunteer unit of all things. Yeah. I and I don't know. I still don't know why. I still like what maybe it was those two chicks in the in the newspaper. One of them went on to become a cop. Oh, yeah, no way. Yeah, I haven't spoken to her for years. Yeah, no, she was quite cool. Yeah. So pretty cool. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:58

Uh mate, third. Question. Let's just uh brighten it up a bit. Tell us something about you that people don't know. Guilty obsession. Man, I'm pretty into I'm pretty open.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:09

Anybody who knows me knows what I'm into. I don't have like any dark secrets. Everyone knows I wear dresses. That's not a secret. But yeah, I get out and do the gardening in a dress. A floral one. No, no, just a straight black one. Silk. Yeah. Really accentuate those curves. Look like one of those uh cleaners, yeah. French cleaners. Little may deal with a little tail hanging out the back. No, mate. Gardening. I love gardening. My my plan is retiring soon, right? Like let the missus take take the financial and she wants that. She's happy for that. Um psychologist, she'll be on the bucks. I hope so.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:52

Fucking hope so. That's it. Get to work. Get to work. Uh nah, so that's my uh guilty obsession is probably gardening. And I'm a fucking man, I'm into trinkets, right? I collect some random shit. I like to take a little piece of each range home with me. You know, might take a little rock home that looks cool. Uh, I've actually got a rock in the car now. Oh, do you? Yeah, man. I'm like, that's cool. And my little like my daughter Rebel, the young fella, he's not into shit like that, but she's the same as me. She's a bow bird. She'll see a little rock and be like, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:25

Yeah, my kids do that. Literally, my daughter was showing me a rock last night. She goes, Do you remember this rock we we we got? I'm like, Yeah, I do actually remember that one.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:32

Yeah, so so things like that, man. Like, that's probably a little bit weird that I do. Yeah, as long as they're not ranged produce. No, I definitely I I answer no to every every time I get asked. Yeah, I have no range produce in my possession.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:45

Said that, yeah, and I've said that a million times.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:48

It's just it's not worth it for me. Like and like the reputational damage that would do to the company is pretty bad.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:54

But yeah, man, I I'm I'm the same. I found this rock actually in Singleton, and no shit, it looks like an egg. Really? It's the shape, I want to crack it open one day. It's at home now, and I drew a face on it. It went to East Timor with me, it went on multiple parachute jumps, it went to Afghanistan. Yeah, like it went everywhere. This rock went everywhere, it's at home now. My daughter's got it. It's her rock now.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:16

Yeah, yeah. Well, the one I just actually just got too. I got a court. We're such boys, too. Oh, weird cuts. Weird cuts. You're probably 80.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:25

We're probably autistic. Oh, no, 100%. Yeah, yeah. This is a little I was that kid too. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I wasn't on the roof, but I wasn't far off it. Oh, mate.

unknown 2:36:35

Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:37

I look back, and there's so many other stories. I'm like, man, I was yeah, those kids, those kids just living life. 80s kids.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:46

Oh mate. Everyone, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:48

Yeah, but yeah, to answer your question, mate. Rocks.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:51

Rocks, gardening. Gardening, yeah. And when we talk gardening, are we growing your own herbs, veggies? Veggies, man. I've got um you're going through that stage of life. I have been I have been forever. Yeah, I I do it as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:02

It's therapeutic to me. I love nothing more than going out and just digging through the soil. So take the kids' cars out there sometimes and make a little car track.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:12

Yeah, well, you proved you I suppose you did some gardening when you were younger too.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:17

Growing weed. It's 2026, man. I'm waiting for them to say that we can do it. It's not far off. They've just camera.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:24

So Wales are looking at approving, which just on that, like I was thinking about it. If you get a roadside drug test and you show up positive, how do they know that you you can just say, Oh yeah, no, it was a week ago. How do they know you could be literally still fucking high and go, Oh no, bro, that was a week ago, that's why it's showing up positive.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:43

How are they going to figure this out? Well, to my knowledge, it's not produced in your saliva, so it's residual, right? So if you've just smoked, it it'll be in your saliva. Um, but if you smoked a couple of hours ago and had a big feed or any like you know, a burger or something, it'll be gone. So I think the But that's not the case.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:02

I think they're showing because it is showing up on drug tests like two or three days later because it's still in your on your blood and in your it's in your urine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:10

It's in your urine for for ages, and if you do it every day, cops are too busy, man. They're gonna you're gonna turn roadside positive. Oh yeah, you got your prescription, yeah. See you later.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:21

Yeah, unless you're showing like you know when someone's stoned, even if you're a complete stoner, you still know when they're stoned, like you can see it.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:29

Yeah, but it enhances your driving, I reckon. You drive you drive more safely, you drive a lot slower. It's not like booze when you get you get blind and then you go and drive. You drive like an absolute maniac. Confident, confident driving, yes. And I have done plenty of confident driving.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:45

Just speaking of that, going back to a story in 2000 and something, you rolled your sister's car.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:51

Oh, yeah, and it's I actually live just near that house now.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:56

Um next question movie TV show, what are you watching?

SPEAKER_01 2:39:03

Live remakes of animes at the moment. I've been smashing. Like on YouTube or something, no, no, like uh on Netflix, you know, uh Avatar, The Last Airbender.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:13

Yeah, I haven't watched any of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:15

Uh like um what was the other one I just watched? Oh fuck, I can't think of what it was now. Oh, One Piece. You never heard of One Piece? Oh mate, do yourself a favor. Get your kids. But my kids watch all these shows now. One Piece is awesome. Yeah, yeah, just like Japanese old school anime. You would remember Dragon Ball Z cheese TV. I still love that shit. I still like watch all the new Dragon Ball Z when they come out. You're such a nerd.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:44

Yeah, yeah. I I I did love Dragon Ball Z back in the day and obviously Pokemon and they're still making it.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:49

Yeah, are they? They're still making Dragon Ball Z. Yeah, are they? The original one of the original creators uh just died recently, and he and he was in the process of ending the story. But they're like, Oh no, now he's died, we'll continue it to a point, so yeah, they still make new seasons new seasons, it's quite cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:10

What about uh movies? Any movies? Oh not really.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:15

I haven't I've just been watching series, man. Like favourite movie, of course, act of valor 13 hours there they're too yeah, 13 hours, man. 13 hours, and uh I believe was it you that had one of those boys on?

SPEAKER_04 2:40:29

Yeah, yeah, I had uh Chris. I talked to Chris a fair bit, yeah. We were we're still good, yeah, still good friends, and uh David Boone. David Boone was the other guy, and obviously Sarah Adams. She was the one of the CIA targeters. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. She wasn't there, but she was in a different butt. It was all she was all part of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:46

Yeah, yeah, man. Those two interesting those two movies and act of valor for me too, because that's like like I mentioned before, that was when I watched that movie, I got goosebumps. I was like, fuck, this is sick. Yeah, these dudes are fucking sick, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's not like watching Commando with Arnold Schwarzenegger back in the 80s. They were good, yeah. Yeah, Charlie Sheen and baby seals. How movies have progressed. Oh mate. Classics though, classics, classics, yeah, top gun. It was funny. Uh my mate who I was telling you about before, um, one of the OGs from Bravo, we were on a on a range at single together, and he's like, fuck, we should watch the the OG Predator. Yeah, with Arnold Fort. Classics, man. Classics. That night we just sat around the four and watched the predator, and we're like, this is sick. Aliens, remember that movie coming out? Yeah, it's because our parents all watched that stuff. Yeah. One of my favourite questions to ask uh in a range brief. Any questions? Yeah, yeah, just a quick question. The uh the mud that conceals the heat signature of Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Predator, is that like specific to a regional location? Yeah, shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:02

That's it when they used to say no questions is a stupid question. Well, that was a fucking stupid question. Yeah, how curious is boy curious, curious mate's uh music.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:13

What do you listen to? Uh at the moment, um metal core, heaps of metal core, like Amity Affliction. Oh, yeah. Uh there's a new, there's a young up-and-coming band. I went and saw Amity Affliction. Actually, this year, this year's anniversary of Nate dying, uh, the Amity Affliction played in Coffs Harbor. So me and and and the core group of fellows, we went to that, and there was a young band there, Head Rec from Brizzy. Epic. Man, those dudes are going places. So I've been smashing that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:43

There's a couple of good little bands. I I've uh worked at Good uh Good Things, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:47

So so Headreck played there, I believe. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:50

Um there was a couple of also have a couple of different stages, and fuck man, and I'm just gonna listen to some of the music of the smaller bands, like in the first sets and stuff. Fuck they're getting good, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:00

Good stuff. And and these dudes, like the youngest dudes, like 20 years old, so they got so far to go. But yeah, that's what I've been getting right into again, like metal core, I listen, yeah. I listen to everything, but yeah, these days.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:14

Yeah. What what about back in the Stoner days?

SPEAKER_01 2:43:18

Friends will rhym, friends will rhyme, Cypress Hill, Eminem, Dr. Dre, lip biscuit before Fred Durst turned gay. Like that's yeah, behind blue eyes. What was that? Yeah, quit.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:31

Yeah, no, definitely like you talk about the old Snoop days and Dre and Dre it was all about just smoking weed and yeah, get to yeah, get Dre on the show, smoke weed every D.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:42

And it's a wonder I turned out how I did. It's a wonder. Cypress Hill Black Sunday, that album. Yeah, man, that takes me back. And we were listening to this shit in high school, yeah. Yeah, it was no and my daughter, man. Like I said to you, she listens to she's into slip knight. Yeah. At 10 years old, she's into all this stuff. So this is the next generation of mad dogs.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:08

Mates, uh, yeah, or for whatever reason people want to reach out to you. How can they?

SPEAKER_01 2:44:12

Are you on I'm not really on the socials, man? I've got a pseudonym Facebook profile that I use for marketplace on Marketplace Troll. Oh, yeah, so I'm not sure. You got something for 500? I'll give you 150. I'll give you 150. I'm that dog. Yeah, I'm that dog that'll prey on you on your weakness. But um, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:30

Just reach out to me and reach out to you. I'll pass on big questions.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:34

You've got my number, man. I've got I'm not in hiding. If anyone wants to contact me, you you've got my number. They can just give me a call or send me a message. Yeah. I don't know why. Unless it's some mad dog. BRS, give me a call.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:49

Mate, uh I again really appreciate you coming on the potty and sharing. So I know it's not uh an easy thing to do, talk about your your life and career, but also talking about you know the the incident with your with your son and like it's just like you said, no one knows, no one's really heard the story and only those that that were there, you know what I mean. Yeah, which is wild to come on and share it on on this this space, mate, because a lot of people are gonna hear this and hopefully it helps someone, you know, in a way. Yeah. You know, change your life around or whatever. But uh, you know, again, you spoke about the SES and the light and what they actually do, and again it opened my eyes to exactly what the SES does.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:29

And uh and hopefully that's what it does for other people too. Yeah, like you get a bit of you get a bit of flack, you know, oh SES. You fucking orange army. No, what what what the cost unit does compared to to most others is is quite unique. Yeah experiences vary.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:47

Yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, exactly right. Uh yeah, and I appreciate it, mate. And we'll stay in contact and yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on, mate. No, I might grow uh some veggies or something, or I should have brought you some corn down. No, I appreciate it, mate, and yeah, we'll stay in contact. Yeah, brother, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:06

Thanks, bro.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:06

Bye.