Ep. 256 Shaun Preston 3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment - Businessman

SPEAKER_00 2:01

It's time for the Zero Limits Podcast, hosted by Australian veterans. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world, we'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the kick to complete any goal you set your mind to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_06 2:30

Zero Limits listeners on today's Zero Limits podcasts. Still down here in Melbourne. Just recently did the podcast with Todd Brooks, SOG, and SASR. But while I was down here, I thought I'd reach out to another one of my good friends. We've known each other a very, very long time. Joined the army together, spent a lot of time in IETs, just causing a ruckus. And you know, I guess if you're from the defense force, even the the police or first responding, you understand that some of the guys you go through with training, you you know, you become lifelong friends and they'll back up for anything that ever, you know, anything that ever happens uh within your life. And this is one of those guys, and I thought get him on because not only did he had a wild defence force career, which led to him going A-WOL, which we'll talk about, but post-military career he moved into the business world. I remember when he started got into this pest control business stuff, he had no idea. And it's funny because I used to call Penner all the time, Steve Penner, to uh ask him about oh, what should I buy? Like got a mad cockroach in infestation. He's like, make sure we get this one with this this specific ingredient. Blah blah blah. Yeah, so they started a business. Uh long story short, obviously Presto will talk about this. Sean Preston, his name is uh he'll talk about this soon, but uh later on down the track, most recently, sold that business for quite a you know quite a large sum of money, and now he's living the life like he's gone from a tumultuous career within the defense force to business life, learning it, understanding it, putting everything at risk, his you know, everything. And then turning it into something that now he can pr essentially retire off. So sure, mate.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

How are you? Maddie, thanks for having me, mate. Really excited to be here, actually.

SPEAKER_06 4:27

I think uh there's gonna be a few boys who are gonna be listening to this and uh you know they know you and we all went through singo together and you're rugby cree, you're quite a um outstanding rugby player, spent a lot of time with the Australian Defence Force rugby team. Obviously, the rugby team within the defence force is quite it's one of those if you're playing for the rugby team or rugby league team, you've got time off. Like you can get out of charges like just because you're in in the rugby team.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Yeah, it's a bit of a boys' club, but yeah, once you get in, if you can prove yourself, yeah, it turns out to be a pretty awesome place to be. I mean, the trips you go on, we went to South America, for example, all flights, accommodation paid for, and you're doing something that you love, you know. So yeah, it's an amazing place to be, that's for sure. But one of those places you don't get many opportunities to try out, but if you do, you have to have a cracking game to kind of stand out from the rest. But if you do, then yeah, you find yourself in a pretty good position.

SPEAKER_06 5:20

And how'd you how'd you get into the rugby side of things? Obviously, you playing before you join the D.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, so there was a guy, uh Paul Yates' name was, he was at 3RER. I can't remember what he was doing within the 3RER setup, but there was a trial coming up, and then he was just asking around are there any quality rugby players around the place? And then someone put my name forward, and then they said, Look, we're having a trial game, I think it was in Ranwick, Ranwick Barracks or something like that. And then I just went away to the game, they basically just gave me a jersey and asked my position, and we went out there and played against this English team that was touring. And because I hadn't played in around about two years because of all the training and everything we've been doing, recruit training, etc. IETs, I was honestly curious as to how I was gonna play. But all I know was because I love rugby and it was my chance to play, I just knew I was just gonna go health leather. I was just gonna throw my body on the line and just hope for the best. And I just had a really good game. I just had one of those games where I was making a few line breaks, setting up a few line breaks, tackling everything in my path, and yeah, just absolutely thriving in it. Because for me, it was just like, oh my god, I've been doing all of this other training where I've been told how to do things, when to do things, and then all of a sudden I'm back in my element where I can just do it how I want to do it. And yeah, I just remember just going for it. And yeah, by the end of the game, they just pulled me aside and they just said, mate, where have you been? And I was just, yeah, mate, I've been stuck in training, but yeah, glad you found me. So yeah, from that point on, I kind of made some awesome friendships through that. Ben Jones is someone who Burger I think's mentioned a couple of times as well. And yeah, a couple of other really solid people like um the Mitchell brothers, you know, Drew Mitchell who played for the Wallabies, his brothers play in the defence force, and yeah, still have contact with them now, and they just got me into the brotherhood, so to speak, and then yeah, never turned back from there.

SPEAKER_06 7:14

Because you spent a ton of time just playing rugby.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

At once, and I remember three RAR fucking hated it, yeah. Yeah, they really hated it because they could just see that wait a minute, you're supposed to be a soldier, and here you are going away on these tours overseas. And honestly, a lot of it in my eyes comes from jealousy. Yeah, that they were just like this kid's getting paid to go overseas and play rugby, but yet here we are getting paid fuck all to sit in the barracks and wait for the next two electrons.

SPEAKER_06 7:41

Like I said, it took precedence. Like in the defence force, if you played right, like I said, rugby or rugby league, and the the head shit because it goes above the CO level.

SPEAKER_08 7:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's huge.

SPEAKER_06 7:51

It's like generals and stuff like that making the decisions. No, fuck, we're we're rugby. 100% rugby first, war second.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yeah, and and so much so that I remember when there was the list going around for who was going to be selected for the South America tour, they hid the letter from me saying that I'd been selected. And the only way that I found out was my mate Jonesy called me and he goes, Hey man, have you received this letter? You got a response saying that you're available. I'm like, what letter? And then sure enough, I went to the queue stuff and then yeah, it was buried underneath all this paperwork that someone clearly just didn't want me to see. Because there was a, I think there was like a defects or something coming up, Cab W or something. And they were just like, No, you're going to CAB W. And I'm just like, fuck not if I have something to do with it. So yeah, so then sure enough, they ended up, like you said. I thought, well, what chance have I got? I'm just a digger. I'm not going to be able to tell them what I can and can't do. No. Then Jonesy made a few phone calls, and then sure enough, it goes right to the top. And they're like, no, he's he's going to South America. Yeah. So thankfully, yeah, like you said, the brotherhood kicked in.

SPEAKER_06 8:54

It's still pretty prestigious, the the rugby league. And so it should be. And it always has been for you know a hundred plus years.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

So no, it's it's a fraternity, that's for sure. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 9:04

Uh yeah, that's it. And obviously, we had one with our friends uh Gav Castro, he was in the surfing team. Was he in the surfing team? He was in the surfing team. I didn't even know there was one. Hey, there'll be times where we go on like on some mortal exercise, and Gab's like, nah, sorry, can't go. We've got to go surfing. Like, that's a pistake. Should have done more sports. I know amazing. Mate, all right. Before well, before we crack on with your defence force career, which was up and down, quite a wild ride, obviously ending pretty much abruptly and just leaving.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

Sure did.

SPEAKER_06 9:39

Plenty of stories along the way. We spoke about a few. We just ducked off to um saw one coming this morning. And I every time I come to Melbourne, I always need to go buy things from JB Hi-Fi. So went to JB Hi Fi, I didn't have it. We went somewhere else. There turned out to be some card convention there, so we stopped into the card convention. I got some Pokemon cards, and and then we ended up at a music shop and got the the equipment that we needed. Um, but before we start this podcast, or before we move into your military career and uh post-business career, which is absolutely fucking and one of the reasons why I want to get you on this podcast to show people out there there's you put that grit and drive into something and you can turn it into something. Absolutely. Um, like you said, because now like I'm like, what are you doing with your life? And goes, Oh, I'm not really doing anything. I don't have to. Like, I'm just gonna take time to relax now and review and make the best financial decisions to to ensure that you know the best outcome comes. But before we do, mate, as I said, let's get back to those younger Sean Preston days, mate. Run me through it. Where you grew up in Perth, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah, Perth WA, yeah, yeah. So more in the northern suburbs. My dad was more in the southern side of WA, so south of the river. For everybody who knows Perth, you split it up into two north of the river and south of the river. And yeah, a bit of a tumultuous sort of upbringing as well, I'd say. I would say to be far from ideal. My parents got divorced when I was about two, and like I said, dad moved around about an hour and a half away south of the river. Mum and I from there, it was pretty difficult because we had to do a bit of house hopping trying to find where we were going to move to next. And I remember, look, I was probably too young to remember the early stages, but I remember that as soon as my memory started to kick in, we were living at my great-grandparents' house for a period of time. He passed away, and then we were kind of left in that limbo zone again because I had to sell that house off. And then thankfully, my uncle and auntie, Eric and Cynthia, put their hand up and said, Look, why don't you come and live with us? And that was the best thing for me, to be honest, because I had my cousins around me. My cousins and I are just best of friends. My cousin Chris used to teach me all the sports. We were playing footy, basketball, you name it. I just remember that being an awesome time. And then my cousin Melissa and I, who's around about the same age as me, we get along like a house on fire. She's like my best friend. And she would just hang out with me, we'd play games, talk. And yeah, I just remember for what could have been a really difficult period in our lives. I remember just because my uncle and auntie opened their house up to us, I just remember for them it might have been chaos because there was kids everywhere, people everywhere in the house, three adults. I could imagine it would have been difficult, but yeah, they just made me feel so safe and and welcome, you know, and and I just loved that period of my life for what could have been a lot worse. And then eventually, after living there for around about six, seven months or thereabouts, my grandparents helped my mum get a home, and then we moved into that home together. And to begin with, uh everything was all good. It was a really good place to be. Mum, I was the center of her universe, and vice versa, and couldn't complain. And, you know, even with my dad seeing him every second weekend, it was pretty good, you know, like there was nothing too much to complain about. I hated being away from my creature comforts when I had to go to my dad's house because I didn't have all my toys and PlayStation, all the cool stuff. But at the same time, you know, there wasn't, you know, any problems there whatsoever. Then to fast forward a little bit further, going into sort of around about the age of eight and nine, my mum met a guy that basically flipped our lives upside down, if I'm being honest. So I don't really want to mention his name, but I'm sure it'll probably pop up at some point. But even just hearing his name just makes me sick, to be honest. But he was someone who very much just enjoyed being a bully. You know, he he he really took ownership of that's who I'm gonna be and and took real pride in it. And that's how it felt anyway, you know. So he used to basically just completely abuse mum and I and scream at us. And he was a chef by trade. I mean, to give you an idea, the abuse we kind of experienced under him. I remember one time in particular, he held us up against the couch and held a knife to us and basically wouldn't let us leave. He had like a meet cleaver out, yeah, and just wouldn't let us leave the house. And mum was trying to grab the phone to call the police and he ripped it off the wall and threw it in the sink. So we were basically completely disconnected. And I remember just looking at the front door and just looking for an opportunity to get the hell out because I just didn't know how this was going to play out. I've never seen anything like that before, you know, because before that part of my life, I'd never seen violence, you know, even though there was a broken home, it was a safe place. Like nothing ever felt scary to me because I was in a very safe place with my mum. My mum put me first always. And then I found myself being in a life where I was not first anymore, I was just nowhere to be seen. And it was like a fight for survival, it felt like. And then I remember I just sprinted for the front door, broke out of the front door, ran down the end of the street where I knew there was this house with the big set of bushes out the front, and I just hid there for hours, waiting for his car to leave. And then finally, when his car drove off, I remember just constantly peeking out, just waiting for that moment. And then I sprinted down the street, and I'll never forget tears just streaming down my face. Because in my eyes, I thought, am I gonna walk into a house where my mum's no longer there? Like, or she's bleeding out, or who knows? Even to this day, it gives me chills just thinking about that moment. But yeah, I just remember walking in the door and seeing mum, and she just screamed out crying and just gave me a hug and she said, Sean, don't worry, that'll be the last time you ever see him. And I can tell you that man was our life for six years, and that wasn't the last time. And it just happened over and over and over again. Those sort of stories where I'd be playing PlayStation, he'd want to have a go at the PlayStation, I'd say no, and he picked it up and smashed it over my head. You know what I mean? This is the sort of person we were living with, and you could imagine for someone like me who mum and I were close as anything, and I was her number one, all of a sudden now I'm fighting against this guy for attention. I'm fighting against this guy to be safe. And then as time goes on and you start becoming into your teen years, I just remember I just didn't want to be home. I would do anything not to be home, so I'll just be on my bike for hours and hours. The lights had come on at night, I'd sneak in, grab a meal in my room, eat it in my room, jump back on my bike and be out. And I just wouldn't come back for later. Yeah, so he was heavily involved in drugs. And yeah, I remember like on school holidays and things like that, I'd be left alone with him and he'd be having mates over and they'd be drinking and yeah, taking drugs and stuff in the backyard. And I'd tell my mum, and you could remember my mum at the time was working for the police, like she was actually a secretary for the police. But it's amazing how separated you can be from that by someone who's protecting her identity. And I've spoken to my mum about this.

SPEAKER_06 16:40

And coercive control.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah, that's right. And and massive credit to my mum, like she's taken full ownership for this, however, that doesn't change the fact that I had to live that for six, five, six year period of my life, which in my eyes are pivotal years, where that's when you build your confidence, that's where you build your connections with people, and I was completely separated from all of it, so much so where even my family were just completely unaware of what we were experiencing.

SPEAKER_06 17:06

Obviously, you're still seeing your dad, were you telling your dad?

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yeah, I was telling my dad, but even so, like there's a part of you that starts to think like that's just what relationships are like. You gotta remember my parents got divorced that too, so I never saw what does a marriage look like? You know what I mean? What does a long-term relationship look like? I started to just think that's just normal. And it was only when I started to go over friends' houses and to see their parents, yeah. The dynamic, and it was just like, yeah, man, what the fuck is going on in my house? Yeah, you know, and then and then it was when they started coming over and they'd be like, okay, why have you got holes in your in your doors? Why, why is why is this window broken? Why is and it was because of the outbursts. Like, and I'm just like, oh, I just thought like when you lose your temper, you can do that. And to be honest with you, for a large portion of my life in my early teens and stuff, that's how I acted. Like when I'd lose my temper, I'd punch a hole in the door. Because that's what I saw. Monkey see, monkey do. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and and same with like if you're upset with something, like you you fix it with violence, like that's what you did.

SPEAKER_06 18:01

Which probably didn't help moving into defence because not at all. You were taught to harness that.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah, well, that's right. Yeah, and and find a way to unleash it, yeah, in a way. Don't get me wrong, the defence force needed me more than oh, sorry, I needed it more than it needed me. Yeah, like it helped me dramatically of how to control that and that there is in fact consequences for actions where I didn't feel that for a very long period of time. Like I ended up with a criminal record purely because of the fact I just didn't know where the line was.

SPEAKER_06 18:29

Spinning hill kick.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Well, that was another incident, but that was a good one.

SPEAKER_06 18:34

But yeah, yeah, right, mate. So that's that's pretty wild. That's pretty wild. And like, how does and you're obviously in school at this stage as well? You're a single child. How are you going uh getting mates quite easily?

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah, yeah. Like I had awesome groups of friends, you know. I I still to this day I'm friends with all of them, you know, a a good chunk of us anyway. Um got mixed up with a couple of like really untidy people as well through that. Because to be honest with you, I started to really like the idea of being involved in things like gangs, for example, because I'd realised that being a part of something like blood related wasn't working for me. My family wasn't working for me, you know what I mean? But being a part of someone who you would fight for and they'd fight for you, that was something that I was like, gee, I want to be a part of that. I want to feel protected. I want someone to come in here and and kill this guy, get him out of my life. And and I knew that I couldn't rely on a family member to do something like that for me. But that's how angry I was at the time. That I just felt like I needed someone who was going to escalate the force so that I was protected, you know, and and I didn't really know if I had that. The only person who I can honestly say really took it seriously was my grandfather, you know, and he he my nonno, I'm Italian by background, and and he was my number one because that guy would would kill anyone for me, you know what I mean? And so much so there were times where he would go looking for him to try and get involved. Yeah, yeah. And it was only towards the end my uncle and my grandfather, my nonno, got together to come over and deal with him, and he was gone. Like he drove off and he left. And it was only then I started to notice, like, oh, I think this guy's on the way out. And to go with that, when I was a teenager, I started to obviously, and you know this, you get your testosterone starting to come through, you start to get a bit more aggressive. I'm getting into contact sports and things, and I'm starting to go, fuck, you know what? I think I I think I'm ready to challenge this guy out of my house, you know. And I started to have wrestling contests with him, stirring it up, like trying to engage because I wanted to see, you know, how you just test to test it and take it to the next level, yeah. Yeah, and I remember when he used to start wrestling with me in the lounge room, to him it was a game, to me, it was serious, and I was trying to escalate, like, and you could feel the look on his face, he realized there's a change of guard happening now like I I'm actually struggling to deal with him, and then I went away for a weekend with my dad, and I thought, you know, it's getting to that point soon it's gonna come to a head. And it didn't have to because something happened that weekend. I don't I still to this day don't know, but there was holes punched indoors, everything was just all over the place in the house. It looked like a a war zone. But then my mum sat me down and she goes, Sean, I know I've told you this before that he won't be coming back, but he actually won't be. And in the lounge room, you'll see there's a box there with a button on it. There's a restraining order under both of our names where we're protected. If you ever see him pull up in this car and I'm not home, you're to press that button and the police will be here immediately. So that was when I knew, like, okay, something's different, like this is different. He actually isn't going to return this time. But but a lot of damage had been done. I mean, the relationship between mum and I in that period was just gone. Like there was just nothing there to hold on to. You know, my respect for her had gone right down. And once again, you know, I take my hat off to her now, taking full ownership for that, and even telling her that I'm going to be mentioning all these things in the podcast, she was completely okay with it, which is hard for me because I I really have that element of I still want to protect her. But there's a part of me I'm like, Yeah, but you didn't do that for me when I needed you the most, you know, which is really hard to hold on to. And you definitely, for a long period of my life, I carried that around like a badge of honor, you know. And some of the stories there was just the last one that I'll mention is just I remember what at one stage it got so bad I was living with my grandparents. I ended up speaking to my mum after about six months of living there because I was just I just wanted to come home, you know. Same thing, no creature comforts. Your grandparents are much older than you, you can't be on the phone as long with your friends, all these things. There were lots of limits on what I could do. So I called mum and I said, Look, I want to come home, but I'm not coming home if he's still there. And she said words to the effect of, well, you're gonna have to get used to him being here because he's not going anywhere, or you can stay at your grandparents' house. So things like that, you you don't lose that. You know what I mean? You can't forget those things, you know.

SPEAKER_06 22:54

So um But again, that's coercive control.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And that's why, you know, when you hear all these things standard now, yeah. 100% the politics coming out now about you know, Paul Lake Hanser, for example, saying just leave. You know what I mean? Like, I understand people are kicking off about that, but I also have been a kid just can't, yeah. In that where we're just like, yeah, you can't, but there's also an element that was our house. You know what I mean? Like exactly right, yeah. We we could have kicked him out, we could have been safer, but we chose because of like you said, I don't understand the age I was at, how much control he must have had, but it wasn't that simple at the time. But there is an element there as well where I'm like, why didn't we just kick him out? Get him out.

SPEAKER_07 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

And then life would have lived on. Yes, there would have been a couple of scars, but surface level, you know.

SPEAKER_06 23:39

Yeah, you just don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_08 23:41

But uh is he still alive? Probably.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yeah. And look, I'll tell you this interesting I ended up having to speak to a psych about it. Because it did hold on to me for such a long time, I was fucking bitter, you know, like proper bitter. In Perth?

unknown 23:53

Perth.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Perth, yeah, yeah. And also in the army, you know, I just hadn't let go of it. You know, and and so much so to the point where um I used to go out, and if someone belittled me or bullied me or stood over me in any way, I just couldn't handle it. Yeah. I would just fly off the handle and fight immediately. Because I had this thing in me, I was so oppressed for so long of being the victim and being bullied, I swore I was never gonna be that kid again. And and even as an adult now, I had that thing in me of like, I don't care if you're bigger, stronger, whatever. No one is gonna make me feel so insignificant ever again. Yeah, and and you know, like you said, when you've seen me when I got into that fight and canola that time, same same sort of thing. Like someone tried to bully me, manipulate me, and I just had this thing in me, and they don't know what they're getting hit with. A spinning heel kick? It's yeah, well, besides the spinning heel kick and the copious amount of right hands, it was a case of it was more of just the pure unadulterated anger that is still in your system that you don't know how to get rid of. Yeah, and that was when I did speak to a psych about it because it was starting to get me in a lot of trouble with the law. As a kid, as a kid, and and you know, even in my early adulthood, obviously criminal record speaks for itself. Now you're now you're starting to have consequences. I remember him saying to me, he goes, So let's say you find this guy, which I was definitely hunting. You find him, you do something, he gets a criminal compensation payout. You're sitting behind a jail cell, you miss out on most of your life, you want to raise a family, you want to do all these things, your life's shit, his life's better. What was the point? And it really got me thinking, it made me realize, like, yeah, well, I guess he's living rent-free in his in my brain, isn't he? You know, and he was for a very long period of time. Doesn't mean that even talking about it now, I don't get angry or bitter, but the difference is I let go of it. Like, and that and that was the key was realizing I'm holding the rope, pulling this thing closer to me. Where if I can just let go of the rope, what power does it have over me anymore? It's not putting me into a hole in the room.

SPEAKER_06 25:57

Yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah, which took a lot of work, like it took a long time to do that.

SPEAKER_06 26:01

Alright, I'm just quickly uh just booking some flights to Perth right now.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

I know a guy.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

I know a guy.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, I'm glad it piqued your interest.

SPEAKER_06 26:14

Uh yeah, right, so obviously, what age group, what what age are you talking now?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

So I'd say I'm in sort of by the time he leaves and out of out of our lives, we're talking about 14, 15.

SPEAKER_06 26:25

Yeah, so you're becoming like a young boy, like almost a young man, really. Yeah, yeah, essentially. You're jerking off.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah, yeah, pretty much, yeah. You're just non-stop. Yeah, you're you're firing powder by the end of the day.

SPEAKER_06 26:38

Sorry, mum.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

That's right, that's right, yeah. Look.

SPEAKER_06 26:42

And uh schooling, so how did you go? Because you know, we we spoke offline and uh we know for a fact, you know, we did Mortar's course together, and uh, I don't think you even finished it because when it comes when it comes to mathematical equations and just learning in general, it it was a a hard it was pretty hard for me, but I I got it. But for you, it was like maybe it was like speaking another language. So I'm watching Rain Man equations in the head, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

But never matched, yeah, but never matched, nah, nah. It was it was just for me, numbers have never been something I've enjoyed. And then I remember when they were going around, oh, who wants to do a quad bike course? And I'm like, yeah, I'll do it. And they're like, sweet, you're on mortars. I'm like, perfect. All right, so what's mortars all about? Oh, it's just all maths. Oh, for fuck. Mate, I hate maths. Like I still to this day, you know, like I just can't stand. I was that kid that when you got caught up onto the chalk board and they're like, right, we're gonna yell out an equation, you've got to write it on the board. My palms were basically turning that chalk into just mush because I'm sweating. You know, I just can't stand the thought of it, you know. So when they're working out all those things, I just remember just sitting there just going, Oh, if someone shot me right now, I'd be completely okay with it. So, yeah, so so I just kept doing all these things and and all the little tasks that they got us to do. And apparently it was a course that you couldn't really fail. They were gonna help you through it. I wanted to fail because I just hated it so much. I'm like, this is not me. You know, put me in anything else, and I'll be okay. But yeah, doing that just not good.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

So back to school, you were struggling academically as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Academically, I was struggling. The only thing I was acing was sports. Sport, of course. Anything to do with PE and sports, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:21

Again, like it's such a recurring theme with majority of the guests I've had on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, see, and it makes sense. And you know, someone put it to me of just have you noticed that in life, if someone's an elite athlete, probably chances are they're gonna be pretty average academically. Equally, if they're exceptional academically, they're probably gonna struggle in sports. It's very rare to find someone that can do everything, you know what I mean? Uh or do both sides of the coin, you know, where I definitely wasn't. I was just all sport, and that's the way my brain thought.

SPEAKER_06 28:49

So you're in school in Perth, uh, you finished school what year is what year you finished school? 2002. 2002, but when are you when does your um legal trouble come along?

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, so that would have been like end of high school, maybe just before the end of high school. Yeah, I ended up going out one night and my best friend Colin and I, we were just out and about with a few other friends, and this guy was being abusive to what was Colin's ex-girlfriend at the time, and Colin saw it, walked across the road, and Colin said, Look, I I have to go speak to this guy and stop him from doing what he's doing. He was punching signs and just like, you know, pushing her around. And then I said, Look, I'll come over. You know, I was always that sort of a friend. Like, if you if you're going into something, back up, yeah, I'm gonna be there. You know what I mean? No doubt about it. And that's why I think the military was just such a good fit for me. I just wanted to find a brotherhood of people that had that mentality. Same mindset. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, hey, I'm coming into the fray with you no matter what.

SPEAKER_06 29:49

Which turned out to be the case on multiple occasions.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And and so when I went across the road with him, that guy just started, you know, chirping off and just basically just getting in Colin's face. And I I just spoke up and I just said, you know, don't get close to him like that again. And he just goes, What are you gonna do about it? And you know, when someone says that to you and you've just got that side to you, you just that that's an invitation. And I just said, I'm just telling you one more time, if you do that again, there's gonna be problems. And he came towards me and then he got close enough that I just basically threw a right hook, broke his jaw, and he was out cold on the pavement. But once again, back then there wasn't that thing of like you know, king hits and you know what it can do of people hitting their head on the curb, and he hit the deck hard. But then I I remember the following morning I my phone rang at home, I answered it, and they were just like, Sean, and I'm said, Yep. And just like, oh, this is blah blah blah, the father of the boy you hit last night, just letting you know that we're taking you to court. And I just hung up the phone immediately, and mum was asleep, and I'm like, hey mum, and she's like, Yeah, and I'm like, I'm in trouble. And yeah, mum, mum called the guy back, sure enough, yeah, got told that we're going to court. We did go to court, he got like criminal compensation and a payout, and and I got a criminal record of grievous bodily harm occasioning oh, what was it? Assault occasioning grievous bodily harm. Yeah, so but it was a spend conviction, so it didn't really translate over to adult life. Luckily, it was before I sort of turned 18. So I would have been about 17, yeah. Yeah, so before that, yeah. But that was the first time I started to realize like, oh shit, like I can actually get in trouble for this, you know. Because before then I'd been in heaps of scuffles and fights and things like that where people got hurt, but nothing really came of it, yeah. So, and and even when I got hurt, I just never dawned on me of like that I would go to the cops and dob them in. I just saw it as like it's a fight, that's what happens, shit happens, but yeah, clearly some people don't.

SPEAKER_06 31:41

And it did that scare you at all?

SPEAKER_02 31:44

No, no, yeah, if I'm being honest, yeah. I feel like it scared me for that little period. The moment I realized it was a spent conviction, I felt like the chain was off and it was like, okay, well, if that happens again, I'd probably do the same thing. And I did like multiple times, it kept happening. And and it was just like I said, I don't I don't want to come across as someone that I really went out there to do that. It was more You never did, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:06

I was gonna say it was always someone had to do something to really push that button. We never went out looking for trouble. Never trouble came to us exactly because we're always in groups, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

And it and it just meant that when it did happen, yeah, you could walk away, but I just didn't know how to do that.

SPEAKER_06 32:21

None of us did, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

So that and that was the problem, which lies the problem.

SPEAKER_06 32:25

Which was the problem when we got to the fence because that's what we were trained to do. 100%. Yeah. Stick up for the boys and fucking send it.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

No matter what, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I wanted to be renowned for that guy of yeah, you got in trouble, but hey, I wasn't a pussy. Yeah. You know what I mean? I didn't walk away from a conflict, and that's I that meant more to me than the consequence.

SPEAKER_06 32:42

Yep. So you're living in Perth at this stage uh after school, you leave school. What's uh what's the what's the plans?

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Yeah, great question. So yeah, because honestly, I just you know, academically, I just knew I was in trouble. You know, I was in big trouble. I just what am I gonna do with myself, you know? And then sure enough, I ended up getting a phone call for a rugby opportunity over in Sydney.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

And so you're playing junior rugby.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yes, I was playing junior rugby, and you know, a big person I have to take my hat off to here, and I that's why I'm so big on leadership now and mentors, because I had Ken Sass, who was my rugby coach in high school, and he basically plucked me out of I was playing soccer at the time, and he just plucked me out and just said, mate, you're playing the wrong sport. I need you to come over and try rugby, you know? And I was like, Oh, okay, you know, I'll come and give it a go. And they had a game like it was just like an exhibition game, and I was at fullback at the time, so I had no idea what I was doing, but they threw me back there just because it was the only place that you had a bit of space and time. And I had really good feet, I was fast, and that's what they were relying on. So they just said, look, if the ball comes down the back here, if you see space, take it on. If you don't see space, kick it into a corner, right? So I just remember I got the ball, and man, I just remembered the whole world just lit up in front of me of just gaps, space, but also just people running towards you trying to kick your ass. And I just remember the adrenaline was just nothing else. I never experienced that in soccer, you know what I mean? I just never had that feeling. So all of a sudden, I just started running for this gap. I got smashed between two people, hit the deck, placed the ball, cover my head. And I remember standing up just going, that was the fucking coolest thing I've ever experienced. And from that moment on, I was just hooked on the sport. So and Ken Sass was just someone who just you would, you know how we talk about you know, military of would you go over that mound for these people? That man would make you fight for anything and everything. He just had a way with words that would just make you do that. So I fell in love with the sport because of the man, and then I feel like then we go forward into a life of I want to make this a career because I can just see that it's got everything you want. It's got the aggression, it's got the skills, but it's got the camaraderie of like you're going into battle with people, you know, you're throwing your body on the line together for a common goal. And then that was when, yeah, obviously I moved to Sydney and So moved to Sydney by yourself. Yeah, by myself, yeah. Well, I had my at the time he was my best friend, Daniel Wiseman, over there. I was playing with him at Trinity and state level. So we're playing state level over in WA. And he got an opportunity because he was playing Australian Schoolboy, so he was doing really well for himself. And I think he had some management behind him, getting him some good contracts and opportunities over there. And he gave me a phone call saying, hey, they're looking for guys over here. I reckon if you put a CV forward with a bit of video footage of you playing, you're gonna get in. So I did. We put something together, sent it over, and sure enough, got a phone call saying, Yeah, we're gonna fly you over to Sydney and you're gonna come and play for Gordon Rugby Club over in Sydney. So then that's when I went over there and started doing that. And, you know, what an eye-opener. Considering I was a kid that never cleaned for himself, never cooked for himself, never did any of those things, had no idea what I was doing. My favourite meal would have been baked beans on toast when I moved in there because that's all I knew how to how to cook. Maybe a steak, and even then I just charred the shit out of it. So yeah, so I just had no idea what I was doing, you know. Even paying bills, Maddie. Like, no idea. No idea what I was doing. You know, I remember they used to cut our power off and they put this sticky tape thing over the top of your because I was in a set of units and you weren't allowed to take it off. It was against the law. I just used to rip it off and turn the power back on. And I was like, yeah, that'll pay it. You know, I just had no idea what I was doing, you know, and then so much so I didn't even know how to get my shopping because I've run out, I started to run out of money because I didn't have a job when I first got over there. They promised me all these things and none of it eventuated. I had to go out and go get my own work. Never been in a job interview, never knew how to do any of those things. So I started to go down to the Woolworths and take in plastic bags because I noticed at the butcher they'd give you plastic bags for your for your meat, and then I'd go and get the meat out of the meat aisle section in Woolworths, go down the aisle that I noticed didn't have a camera, rip them out of the styrofoam containers with the plastic, and then put it in the plastic bags, buy a couple of products like I don't know, like head and shoulders, let's say. And then as you're checking out, they're like, Oh, I'll just be like, Oh, yeah, I just bought this at the butcher. Okay, no worries. And I was walking out with free meat. Yeah, and that that's how I was feeding myself. I was just basically stealing. So yeah, so so I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was just it was just thrown into the wolves, you know. And then but I learned still 17. I was still 17. Oh, I would have been 18 then. Just turned 18. Yeah, because I joined the army at 19. So yeah, so I spent only a year over there, ended up getting into construction labouring. One of the boys got me a job, which I was really thankful for because once again, I didn't know what I was gonna do. Complete naivety on my part. But then yeah, I just realized this is too hard, you know, because a lot of the guys that were over there had support, you know, they had their parents paying their bills, they had, you know, someone hooking them up over there that was giving them a hand. I didn't have any of that, you know. I was I was all on my lonesome, and that made it difficult. So I'd go to construction labouring in the morning at 6 a.m., let's say, driving in Sydney, had no idea what I was doing, how to get there, used my old, you know, navigation as best as I could, and then come home at the end of the day, quickly throw some toast down my throat before getting to rugby training, train at rugby for a couple of hours, come home, try cook baked beans on toast, jump in bed and do it on repeat. And I would do that every single day. And I just remember just going, man, this is shit. Like, this is really hard. You know, if I'm if I'm gonna make it in rugby, and there's so many talented players in Sydney, you know, like in Perth, there was one grade of cults. I got to Sydney and I was watching them train, this group of boys trained. I was like, fuck, these guys are pretty good. And they're like, yeah, that's fourth grade cults. I'm sorry, what?

SPEAKER_08 38:41

Fourth grade.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Fourth grade cults, and I thought they were pretty decent. Like, you know, they definitely weren't setting the world on fire, but I thought they were decent. And then here I am trying to make it in first grade cults. And I was I was playing first grade cults and second grade cults, so I was kind of mixing between the two. But one of the things I noticed when I first moved to Sydney, like when in Perth, when I was playing in a playmaking role, I could throw a pass and no one would touch me. Sydney, every time I threw a pass, I got jammed every single time. So I learned pretty quickly throw a pass to protect yourself. Oh man, they're lining. I'm playing 10. Yeah, so their job is like kill him. Yeah, you know. Where in Perth, no one did that to me. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I mean, I've got a bit of cheap stuff on the bottom of a road.

SPEAKER_06 39:22

Not too many islanders out that way, too.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Not as many at that time. You know, there is now because of mining and things like that. There's a lot more.

SPEAKER_06 39:27

But Sydney was full.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Sydney was full of it, and quality players, you know.

SPEAKER_06 39:30

So, like, yeah, I remember I started stands and fucking Samoans and Tennins.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Our first trial weekend, we were playing against Eastwood as a round robin. And I started in third grade, and then they plucked me out of that. They said, no, he's too good for third grade, put him into second grade, played second grade, played really well in second grade, and then they were like, no, let's put him on the bench for first grade, came on for first grade, and I straight away the first pass, bang. I just got jammed and I was like, oh, okay, second pass, jam. And like even if it was late, they would be happy to take the late tackle. Yep, sweet, I'll take the penalty. But they just wanted to prove to you like I'm on you all day long. So it was pretty cool. Like it was a real sharp learning experience of like, okay, if I'm gonna play at this level, it's got it's completely different. So yeah, but that's where I found that learning curve difficult was because I was jumping between first and second grade for that reason. Sometimes I'd have games where I'm super on and I'd get it, and then other games I'm like, oh shit, man, I'm just a little bit behind the pace here, you know. So but I was always in the mix anyway.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Was it looking promising?

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Oh, I wouldn't say in Sydney it was, and to be honest with you, it was a stupid move moving to Sydney because I'd made a name for myself in Perth.

SPEAKER_06 40:38

Yeah. At age group level.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

So you probably should have stayed in Perth and they didn't have a super rugby team at the time, sure enough. The year I leave, bang Western Force raises, and here I am.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

Could have been a defeat, mate.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I I would have I would have been in the mix of at least being in more of the recruitment because I was already in the shadow squads there, but then I decided to leave because I didn't know when it was actually all going to kick off, and then it did. You know, I thought it was all talk, but then sure enough it did, it kicked off, and here I am in Sydney with this massive pool of talent, and then over in Perth, it's like they're shipping talent over, but they were also looking after homegrown talent. So then I kind of feel like I missed the boat on that, you know. But but it is what it is. Like, I mean, I have no doubts I probably would have reached the limit. I don't think I would have ever reached top, top level rugby, but I was still playing at a good level, you know.

SPEAKER_06 41:26

Yeah, who knows? Who knows? Who knows? That's it. Who knows? But you go back to Perth and you think 13, 1901, somehow that pops across the fucking the brain. And where like where does that where does that come about? Have you got any family history within defence? Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

No family history.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

How do you what do you think in in Sydney you're thinking about leaving, going back home, play rugby again, just get a job? But where does defence come into this?

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah, good question, actually. I and I honestly think it was like an advert. Like something as simple as an advert popped up. And I realized, especially after my little stint in Sydney, was I came back to Perth and straight away they were like, mate, we're so excited to have you back. We're gonna get you amongst all the you know quality teams again and build you back up because we know you've been exposed now, which is great. But then I kept thinking to myself, remember what it was like, Sean, when you were working flat out and then coming to training? That wasn't fun, like that was hard work. And because of my mind not being good when it came to academics, I knew I was gonna be doing a very laboursome, hard job and trying to do rugby at the same time. I wanted to enjoy what I'm doing, and then that was when the military side of things, I thought, okay, so I get to be fit and healthy, I get to shoot guns, I get to potentially defend my nation or at least represent my country. All right, sign me up.

SPEAKER_06 42:46

And 9-11's already happened.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Yeah, yeah, that's all kicked off as well.

SPEAKER_06 42:49

So any concept of what is going politically with all that?

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Not too much, but all I know is I fucking love saving Private Ryan. And I was thinking to myself, or Black Hawk Down, all these movies. I used to love them, you know what I mean? And like when I used to watch those movies, I'd go outside. I wasn't I'm an only child, by the way. So I used to go outside and I was the bad guy, the good guy, the good guy's friend. I was playing all of it in these military type scenarios, you know, clearing rooms. I just loved that side of it. So for me, I was like, Yeah, man, sign me up. Like, I'm keen. This is definitely what I should be doing. I should have thought of this ages ago. Yeah, and then sure enough, yeah, just signed up and so sign up, join defense.

SPEAKER_06 43:28

Did you again any idea what jobs were entailed or you just think it's so like soldier?

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah, infantry.

SPEAKER_06 43:37

That was it.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

So I remember being in the car and with one of my dad, my mate's dads, and he was driving me to the recruit interview, and he was like, So what what role are you gonna be? I was just like, soldier, like yeah, but like you know that's everyone, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can there's many things you can be. I'm like, no, no, no, it's just it's just fighting. Like, that's that's what I want to do. And they're like infantry, yeah. And they're like, Yeah, but there's other things, and I'm like, is there? I honestly was so naive. I just thought, if you're in the army, you're either in a tank or you're shooting, or but that's it, you know what I mean? Didn't realise there was QEs and all these different things that you could be doing.

SPEAKER_08 44:14

All the other losers, yeah, that's yeah, that's what I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

But yeah, for me, for me, I just saw it as like if I'm joining that, that's what I've got to be doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, there was no other option for me. Yeah. And all I was worried about was the aptitude test because I'm just like, how smart do you have to be distributed?

SPEAKER_08 44:29

Is this a triangle or a circle? That's a square. Yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

So I hadn't there was an element of me that I was genuinely worried that am I even going to be able to pass this? Yeah. Because you know, school levels failing. Nah, they're taking inventory guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:41

So that's with your criminal history. Did that come up at all within no?

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Yeah, I think I think it was fine. Yeah, nothing got flagged. Nothing, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:55

So you go through all the testing, you pass, you have to do testing, yeah. Uh, medical, physical, all that stuff, jump on the bus, yeah. On a flight, sorry. Yep. East Coast, Wagga, Kapuka.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:07

How was that, mate? Landing into Kapuka again, you kind of lived a bit of a somewhat not disciplined life. It was quite just wild at the end there, you know, quick trip to Sydney and just confused and lost in a way. How did you go getting into Kapuka? You know, the first thing you do is you get yelled at, screamed at, who's got knives, who's got fucking whatever, anything premitted laid out, blah, blah, blah. How'd you go?

SPEAKER_02 45:34

So I remember pulling up on that bus and just being like, What the fuck have I signed up for? Because I saw them all lined up, you know, you see everyone lined up in all their uniform, and you're just thinking, like, oh, this is legit, you know. Because you you know, when you go through that process recruit training, it's all kind of naive you know you you're just signing the dotted line you're saying yes no maybe to everything and then you're on the bus and you just realize shit I've committed like this is it for the first time in my life and I would honestly say I never committed to anything I used to not commit to going to school I used to pull out of everything that got hard you know what I mean I just that was my way of dealing with things if I didn't like it I just walk out you know I did end up but anyway but but what happened was they yelled at us screamed at us to get off the bus I remember getting out and then straight away the first thing they did was get get us into push-up position and they wanted to see how many push-ups we could crank out and your fit yeah I'm I'm like okay yeah you always were the pushup guy too yeah yeah yeah that that was my thing like you were doing like 90 to 100 at one stage yeah yeah I was doing yeah heaps of pushups like I think in the two minutes I think I got 112 yeah so I remember I remember like yeah it was I was just really good at pushups and chin up same with all that strength stuff and you know the running and stuff I was okay I was always like a nine minute nothing crazy but um yeah I remember yeah we did the push-ups and then you had to stand up and the person behind you would yell out your score and I remember listening to everyone's scores as they're going around and then they yelled out mine and I just remember that was the ego boost I knew that was the ego I knew I was in the right place like okay I'm one of the fit ones here I'm gonna do all right you know but where I was shocked was the day to day shit the barracks life you know like making your bed having a shave which you've never done like you said bake beans on top I was shit at all of that stuff you know I never made my bed even when I was living in Sydney you know what I mean I was a shit fight yeah you know what I mean yeah well that's my wife's brilliant so it's all bed right now yeah don't get me wrong she she gets me to just pull the quilt up I just I pay my kids to do it yeah yeah yeah there you go so actually that's a good idea I'm gonna take that one on but yeah so so I had no idea about that side of it and to tell you a funny story I remember in the morning routine remember you had 15 minutes to have your beds made because you they yell out hallway 15 I remember and you go outside you've got your sheets on your shoulders in the hallway and then they go right you've got 15 minutes to get ready go and you had to have your bed made socks and everything you know with the smiley faces you'd have to have shaved and changed ready for the day shit everything and your whole platoon would have to do that everybody knew in the platoon I was so shit at that that what they did was they're like right this is the plan boys and girls there were no girls in ours in the end they they disappeared in the first first two days but they were like boys this is what we're gonna do as soon as you're ready run into Presto's room and get him changed no shit so I would basically just shave taking my time because I never knew how to do things quickly then I would walk back to my room and I'd stand there in the scarecrow position and the guys would be just literally buttoning up my shirt and and making my bed for me while I'm kind of doing what I can in between trying to help out. But they just knew that I was gonna fuck over the whole platoon yeah I was gonna fuck the whole platoon over because I was the slowest. And even to this day my wife watches me tie my shoelace she's like fuck you're slow I am I'm so slow at doing those little monotonous things I just can't stand it. My brain just hates that type of stuff you know barracks life for me is just shit you know but you get me outfield and doing all that sort of stuff I'm all about it you know not when I say outfield I don't like doing all the sitting around stuff but we start patrolling fire and movement all that sort of stuff I'm all about it you know I love that stuff but yeah in barracks it was I was the joke of the platoon of yeah anyone uh in your section or platoon that we obviously go to singer with yeah because I did Kapuka uh two years prior because I was a Choco. Oh right yeah yeah you were too yeah yeah yeah so Aderwell oh yeah he was he was my mother goose right like he would get me changed he would hurry me up he would be the one to get me going in the mornings you know he's a nice dude too really nice dude absolute legend but also a pain in the ass and I'll explain why that guy used to get me in so much fucking trouble because I was Alarican right like I could not keep a straight face in environments where you're supposed to keep a straight face right so when we were in hallway and you have your sheets over the shoulder I remember he always used to be in the room opposite to me so he'd stand opposite to me and he'd always make faces and shit to try and make me laugh because he knew I had no filter. I could not block that out I would just start giggling laughing and getting shit you know every single time and so much so remember we used to get given those set of uh uh pajamas yeah and and they've got a hold right where your dick is and he would just have a fat and purposely have it out and be like presto and I fuck off Adewell please please you know because I know I'm gonna cop it and then he will just have it out and I'd start laughing my head off and then private Preston bang and I'd just cop it you know I recruit Preston at that time and I'll just cop it because I just had no ability of keeping a straight face in those environments you know so sorry Adwell but yeah your dick gets mentioned in this yeah but he was shocking for stuff like that yeah so but he was also my saviour he was also someone that really helped me through that period of time yeah yeah how long was uh Kapuga six uh six ish weeks 45 days or something like that yeah yeah 45 days yeah and the the rest of it you got guns and that was the other thing never shot a weapon before you know had no experience in that whatsoever so I remember being there and I think they give you like three rounds I think for your first ever shoot and I remember laying there I think it was Corporal Farley his name was he was laying next to me on the mound and he's like you ever done this before and I'm like no and he's like oh well you're gonna enjoy it and I'm like okay and then sure enough I start squeezing and I remember I'd like I was like closing my eyes because I'm like how loud is this thing going to be is it gonna kick me back I've got no idea you know and I just remember just feeling it go squeeze and then bang and I was like oh man that feels cool. Yeah and then sure enough you know by the third round to put the gun down and I was just cheering and I'm like man I've found this is my life like I want to do this forever. That was honestly what I had in my mind and yeah yeah I I really was convinced at that point of like I found my career I found my spot.

SPEAKER_06 51:50

Yeah right and then in your platoon that was all infantry guys or was it mixed? Just a bit of mix.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

It was actually yeah it was a real mix yeah it was a real mix but there was a good chunk of infantry which was good you know because then there was a lot of us sort of getting ready to understand what was going to happen going into IETs for example we're gonna stick together for the most part. Yeah so you march out of Kabuga did your mum come out to the march out my mum yeah my dad came out as well and yeah my auntie and uncle I think yeah yeah so there was a there was a few of us there yeah like uh both aunties actually came out so yeah it was awesome it was just yeah really good time where you just feel like you've done well I remember I even got the Ratter to Brook Award when we marched out which I actually got awarded to me by an actual rat of Tabruck. Oh did you yeah he came out he was like one of the last ones remaining what was that award for uh so that was basically the most promising soldier oh is it yeah yeah so so you know how you had all the other awards because our 15th platoon was the Ratter to Brook platoon I think that was what we were associated with and yeah sure enough they give out the other awards of like what what was the other awards it was like best at PT Best PT best I don't know yeah it was like best soldier all those sort of things so I didn't get that but then I ended up getting the Ratter Jabruk award so it was kind of like an award that you only got privately amongst the platoon I wasn't kind of awarded in front of all the families and everything but I remember this guy gave a speech about being a part of the Rats of Jabruck and how much it meant to him and then yeah I stood up and shook my hand and gave me the Ratter Jabruck Award from an actual Ratter Jabruck so it was that's that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_06 53:17

Yeah I still got the award at home so yeah from there go to singleton with all the other Ivree guys again this is where we meet up yeah uh you know there's there's Panna there's Pritchard uh Bryn Evans yeah yeah yeah Brynn Evans yeah fishy fish yeah Kyle Fish whole bunch of boys this is where we all first get together in in single and mate how did you find that transition from soldiering you know uh the the basic fundamentals of becoming a soldier to now the infantry school of infantry where we're doing infantry tactics specifics yeah now we're just with infantry guys like minded everyone is exactly the fucking same we're all coming from broken homes and abusive homes and you know just low economies and you know what I mean like it's just yeah yeah no I found it really it was it brought out the best of you because you were now surrounded by people that wanted the same thing you did and that was to be the best soldier.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

So where when you're in Kapuka you're kind of competing against people that aren't interested in war fighting they're not interested in that side of things but now you're amongst war fighters or guys that want to be so because of that it brings out another level but there's also a bit more of a pissing contest you know what I mean you're trying to find out who's who in the zoo you know and I remember your section in particular you were in like one section or something yeah with uh Corporal Mitchell yeah yeah we had uh big English yeah yeah that's first you guys had like west yeah and I thought you guys were like the elite crew you guys had a really good group we had a really good section out of all the sections I just remember you guys were kind of like the main ones to keep an eye on you know because especially when you're doing things competitively against each other there was fitness things against each other there were shoots everything yeah like you were unbelievable on the ropes I remember and stuff like that so I got best shot at single yeah yeah exactly so I remember your section in particular was just like shit man like we need to aim up against these guys yeah you were you really were studs but what I loved about that was it could have been one of those relationships where we envy you but we ended up getting really close like I I just all I remember from you was just you were the class clown. Yeah like you said like you was I couldn't take things seriously I hate everything we did was just pressed in doing something there was presto if it was if there was scenario to be serious there was presto on the corner just yeah yeah and I wanted to pull people in with me you know what I mean I wanted to have fun with others and I think it's that's that's that sport environment isn't it you know rugby like rugby players as well they're fucking Larricans you know what I mean they are they go on tour and it's a mess you know what I mean it's it's crazy the shit they get up to on those tours but I wanted to bring that same mentality to being a part of the infantry you we're a bunch of boys let's act like it let's have let's have some fun and we did bring out the kid yeah you know what I mean and and and maybe because there was a part of my childhood where I couldn't be that kid sometimes I felt like because I felt I was in a safe environment with good men I felt like I could do that I could really just muck around and find guys that wanted to fuck around as well yeah I remember guys taking shit in other people's dryers because they didn't like him. You know what I mean? Like then his clothes come out yeah with Lucy Litchfield man is it Lichfield yeah something like that yeah yeah poor bastard I mean how do you how do you recover from something like that shit in his boot yeah he shit in his boot and you know but I found that stuff great like this is this is awesome that's what I signed up for.

SPEAKER_06 56:30

Yeah yeah so anyway so we do the the 10-ish weeks at singo and you loved it love the whole experience I love the experience at single like it's just one of those places that you just can't you can't replicate anywhere else you just cannot we get our uh obviously preferences you know in the last few weeks of uh singo and what made you go to three yeah go to three I know yeah so five seven and three were on the line I think they were weren't the only thing I think it was yeah yeah and to me I was actually leaning to five seven because they were on the roster or the rotation. Yeah we thought because they were northern yeah they would go which which would turn out to be true.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Yeah it's true yeah they were they were going to Iraq and I was like well to me and I I have a lot of civilian people ask me why would you want to go to war? Now my theory is it's like explaining to an AFL footballer or a rugby player imagine just going to training from Monday to Friday and then there's no game on a Saturday what's the point? What's the point yeah yeah what's the point yeah so for me I was like oh I'm gonna I want to play the game we all now want to find out yeah am I am I actually one of the weak or one of the strong and am I one of the brave or one of the scared? Like and the only way to find out is by being in the game. And war is on. Yeah war is on.

SPEAKER_06 57:42

Iraq is on Afghan is on Timor is on Solomon Islands is on so defence force for us was busy.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Yeah yeah it was guaranteed trips like it was guaranteed to happen yep exactly and and I wanted to know if I could transfer that same mentality that I had of not being scared of things on the on in the real world can I can I take that into a war zone where people are genuinely trained and people want to harm you can I be a part of a unit that's wants to be like that you know and and fight together for a common goal so I wanted to go five seven but then my girlfriend at the time was living in Sydney and when she caught wind of that she was furious you know she was like how dare you like I've been waiting for you during this whole period and then you're telling me that after all of that you're gonna disappear into a different state and then I might not even see you at all. So I got thinking about that but then other people were telling me of like yeah but it's airborne you know you get to be airborne battalion that's cool you know and I was like yeah that does sound pretty cool you know Marone Berets and then all the studs did go to three hour hours yeah yeah well that's what I thought yeah all the all the pretty cool guys yeah credit chart me At well everyone yeah so so that's probably what turned me was realizing all those good guys I did get tricked into it yeah did you like oh who wants to get paid an extra hundred bucks a footnum yeah me you're a paratrooper I'm like I don't know what that means yeah yeah that's right and and and look honestly I didn't know anything about that side of it either I just knew that the title sounds pretty cool like all of airborne you know you hear about all of that and all the movies and things like that airborne division so I was like oh yeah that's that's the life I want to be a part of then all right yep cool sign me up so that that was when I jumped on and went to three hour yeah so from there we all you know I I I don't really remember but I'm assuming we all jumped on the bus headed down to uh Holesworthy and marched in with our crap hats on and I remember I do remember staying above the shat in the in the transit see I was lucky I was one of the ones that were like I need a work party for 10 people and I put my hand up because I was like oh look I'm probably gonna have to you know show that I'm not gonna just sit in the wings here and put my hand up for things. I put my hand up and they're like congratulations boys you got a room oh no way so I was one of the few that got like their own private room where you guys had to start in the comedy of a bitch and thought oh yeah you know I was it worked yeah and it worked we stayed above the shot and it was it was fuck mate. Yeah I know I remember coming to visit you guys and I was like hit the jackpot yeah I was like in a fucking cupboard just shaking most of the time yeah yeah it was wild yeah cool because yeah you would have had all the full fledged diggers like the right above the seasoned vets coming up and just going who the fuck are you guys yeah no fuck that that sound like fun that's a baptism of fire if I ever uh and obviously we were in our company yep alpha trans I'm pretty sure pretty sure we went on exercise pretty much straight away didn't we remember getting to the battalion and hearing like oh when you get to the battalion it's all different you know all of a sudden now you've got your own life you just turn up to work but then you knock off and you can get to do whatever you want we literally arrived and they're like guys we're going to Qatar yeah I was like for fuck's sake man like we've literally yeah we're in the same section in loopy section yeah and I just remember just being attached there and I'm like oh looks like straight into it like yeah baptism of fire again and yeah yeah we just went straight on to Cata didn't we get to Townshore for and I remember we did a live fire not a live fire but we did a section attack the dry fire section attack as soon as we got there with Loopy and I remember you know you you want to prove yourself and he was abusing the fuck out of us you know but he was trying to make a point you know I get it now but at the time I was so intimidated I was like man we we're shit like we're nowhere near as good as these guys and they were purposely making their section attack way quicker than what it probably would be. You know what I mean? Like they were making it rapid to try and show us how far behind we are and they did it for a reason you know like they would have had a meeting I have no doubts of like let's show these new digs yeah how it's done. Yeah you know and they did like they it was rapid pace and I remember standing up and he pulled us aside and he was just like you guys are nowhere fucking near up to it you better fucking aim up if you're gonna be in my section.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:51

Yeah and it just left you there just wow I know this is a new level again and we we got tasked to do the retran security up on a feature and this is this which is pretty the easiest thing it was it was great because we're like oh fuck this was great. Just eating rat packs ended up on that on that hill and it was my birthday too I turned 19 or 20 I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:12

Mick Albright was in our section and I think Della Matthew Della was Was Matty Della in there was I'm pretty sure he was I remember um was a Balsey Balsey Balsey was at two I see so we're doing this it's it's it was just such a pressing thing to do. We're on this readrance and we're up there for two or three days easily had my birthday blah blah blah the loopy put me on or um Balsey put me on picket at midnight so I could watch my birthday tick over. Mick Albright made me like a pudding out of fucking just ration pack stuff. It was awesome. Mick great guy absolutely great guy still speak to him now and we had a healer a black hawk come in to do a resupply remember Balsey coming around to each of our pits and I was in the pit with you because we were expecting an attack because there was an attack I mean do you remember they they gave us a card and you put the card in your top pocket and that told you what your injury was so after the firefight it'd tell you you'd get the card and go and I ended up getting shot in the side of the head or something and so they had to bandage my head anyway. This helo comes in Balsey comes around and goes Boys just there's there's a black hole coming dropping off supplies make sure you harness everything pack everything up we all pack everything up except for one person.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

Guess who that one person is Sean Preston Sean Preston you still had your puff mat out and your sleeping bag yeah I'm pretty sure I was busy making a rat pack I I think I even had my hexes out everything I was just keen sweet make beans again I'm used to this the black hole comes screaming in kicks out its thing obviously this draft mate my went everywhere and we're on a cliff edge we know it was gone and I was like yep sweet we'll have to buy another one of them when we get back yeah and we still had a few more days to go so I was sleeping just on the rocks by the end because I had nothing left but yeah so and I just remember once it took off Loopy comes stormy over and I'm like oh fuck here we go I've already shown him I can't do a section attack according to him and then here he is straight into me is just like you're a shit fight Preston Whoa was your shit still out and I'm like oh honestly you didn't hear but I I don't remember hearing Balsey say I'm sure I'm not stupid enough to leave a hex in my tablet burning yeah everyone else did oh I must have just zoned out for that period of time but yeah once again I just realized pretty quickly of like see get me to sit up here doing fuck all I'm useless if you get us on a patrol and get us moving that's when you can call on me but anything in between I'm useless.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:43

And then to end that X we got attacked at the end and it was Joey LeBreton's section that came up and attacked us on the hill we'll talk about there's a name out there like everyone everyone listening from through hour will know that name I remember yeah and I think that was NX once I think what once we got hit that was it it was just NX for some reason and I think we spent two bat two days two or three days back at the at the at the base camp and I don't remember getting back to Sydney but that was kind of like our first real exercise with the third batane well we weren't even sure about getting attacked because I remember you had to have your webbing on to get a registration of a shot remember because we were wearing tests the test gear yeah yeah and I remember I wasn't even wearing my test and and they were coming up shooting and then they realized they're shooting at us and it doesn't register.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

So then they started yelling out shoot at their webbing shoot at their webbing and my webbing was still set up near my pack I was chilling out I didn't realize there was a firefight coming I was just chilling out because I honestly thought retrans I'm like this is a joke yeah like what sort of soldiering is this what people actually do because I didn't realise it was just purely for comms like it literally fire a signal fire a signal to the other side of the protecting a signal retrans uh transmission station that that's it yeah so I I just thought we were there just a like a camping trip yeah and I and I took it as such you know credit to Loopy because Loopy was you almost talked down a black hog with your puff mat. Yeah well Loopy was on his way out as well you know I think that was his last kind of thing so I think even for him he wasn't taking up joining the WA cops I'm pretty sure yeah so I think even for him he was I think he's still in Ru. Yeah I think he might be yeah yeah so um but he was great for us like I mean even even looking back he was hard on me but he was exactly what I needed because there is that element of cockiness that comes out of IETs where you think oh now I'm a soldier you know now I'm ready and you realise pretty quickly of like oh no my ready and their ready is different.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:38

Yeah yeah yeah so it was good for that so we get back to get back to half coming in I don't know if you remember the the dining innight and then we had our first dining in night and this was this was insane this is that was when I learned how to piss into bottles. Yeah I know we all pissed in fucking jugs under the table but that was just an experience that I'll never forget because it was just the wildest thing I've ever experienced in my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

Crazy yeah it really was yeah because on one hand it's very formal and then on the other hand it's an absolute it's a pack of bastards like they say in three harrier it really was it just got messy it goes yeah yeah it was clean and then all of a sudden it just we're doing toast to the queen and the next minute you know we're pissing in bottles and fighting punching and drinking yeah end up with Shat and then it's just destroyed. Yeah yeah fuck mate good time it's like an epic kangaroo caught yeah it's crazy now how did you find that first um first few months in the battalion yeah hard to remember but I just remember okay we're in amongst it now but I just remember feeling like fresh meat. You know you're walking through the battalion You've got the lines and everyone's pointing at you going, these are the new guys, you know. And every guard duty gets thrown your way, you know, like so everyone everyone's just looking at you, just going, right, easy target, easy target. Now, where that was hard for me was I've still got that, don't fucking bully me. And and I found that really hard because I knew that there was going to be consequences. I'm the new kid here, I can't kick off. But there was an element there where guys are going out of their way to bully you, and sometimes they weren't even the good soldiers, they were just shit fights. But because they felt cool because you were new, they thought that thought that gived them a little bit of power over you.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:25

LeBretan.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

Yeah, well, no comment.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:30

Fat sack.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

But anyway, guys, but guys like those sort of people come up to you and just like really big note themselves against you and try and make you feel belittled. And I and I found that hard because I had I had to bite my lip and just say, no, you know, bite my tongue, just don't say shit. It's just not worth it. Yeah, yeah. But there was that element of me of just like, no, I need to also show I'm not a pushover, I'm not one of the weak. You know what I mean? Don't do that to me because I will fight back. And I did it in a different way. It was probably the first time where I started to just go, okay, fuck off. You know, like, and not in not in a way that I used to in the past where I'd fire from the hip and then see what happens later. It was more of a just like, I'd give a look and I would say just fuck off. You know, and then nine times out of ten, you can tell 90% of them are all Barkney.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:15

But that was always at the other companies as well. It wasn't the elf company, it wasn't the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

Yeah, but even within elf company, like there were some pretty domineering personalities, wasn't there? Like, I mean, Tom Pauline, right? Love the guy. Like, honestly, love him now.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:26

Listen to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

But I remember, yeah, at the time, I was so fucking scared of that guy. He was a big dude. Yeah. And like he would just give you that look and look over, and I was just like, fuck man, don't make eye contact with that guy. You know what I mean? Like, he just had that look about him.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

Yeah. And and once again, though.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:41

Jeremy Keely.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

Yeah, but you had to prove yourself, right? And same thing, yeah. Like, and Burjo's and all those guys, Petco's, yeah, all those guys, they they used to just give you that look, and you just had to know that, like, all right, the only way this is gonna go away is if I prove I'm one of the strong. You know, that I'm not someone to be fucked with. And in a section attack, I'll be your guy. If if a fight kicks off in where we're at, in Nauties or wherever it is, I'm your guy, you know? And I felt like that that was my uh my duty. I felt like I had to go out there and show that, like, hey, I don't want to fight with you, but I'll show you I'll fight. Sorry, I don't want to fight against you, I want to show you that I'll fight with you. You know, and then I feel like it didn't take long for people to kind of realize that was that side of me. And then I started to feel like people just let off the yeah, the chain a little bit and just be like, all right, cool, you're one of us. Yeah. So because three RER was like that. You know what I mean? You had to be someone who could stand up for yourself because you got bullied. There's no doubt about it. It was a bullied culture, and if you couldn't stand up for yourself, no one was coming to save you. No one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:45

It was it was a different. I don't know, you know, I never experienced any other battalion, but it was just a different vibe. Being a paratrooper, yeah, being in the third battalion, wearing the Maroon beret, and just the culture. Yeah. Drinking, fighting on the weekends.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Yeah, like the shap wasn't a safe place, was it? No, like you go drink at the shap. Definitely not. And the ruling was there's no rank at the shack. Yeah. So I remember you didn't see officers there. You didn't see them because it was like fuck. Like don't don't come in here because you're not safe here. You know what I mean? And I remember thinking to myself, well, fuck, if an officer isn't safe here, what the fuck am I? You know what I mean? Like, but but there's that element to you where you have your heckles up all the time because you realise like you can't be one of the weak here. Because if you are, you just don't come to the shat.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:30

You know, so but then you had strong sections and you had your strong platoon, like you said, there was always that guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:35

You find your people.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:35

Find your people that are just back up no matter what. It's like a prison. It is.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:38

Really, when you think about it, it's like in the prison yard, you find the guys you want to be associated with so they don't fuck with you. Yeah. You know, and that that was what we did. We found groups of people where we realized, like, okay, these guys are gonna protect me. They know I'm gonna do the same in return. Perfect, we're safe here now. But there was a period there, like you know, you you don't feel safe there. No, no, definitely not. But but do I dislike that? No. No, there was a part of that that I was like, okay, that's what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:01

This this is soldiering, it's life or death at the end of the day, isn't it? Which I wonder, yeah, well, that's what you're going to war, aren't you? Well, this yeah, eventually you do, you know, you go to Iraq, which we'll talk about shortly. But at this stage, you know, 200 uh five, we've got the Solomon's trip. Uh Jamie Clark has uh passed away in the Solomons, uh, which was a bit of a turn for the for the Batane because this is our first, you know, I guess uh deployment uh death and crazy, and then obviously 2006 uh um Jake Kovco as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:33

So we're obviously we're in our company. I we we end up getting stabbed to go do a mortars course. We do mortars course, you absolutely fucking flunk it. I get posted down there.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:43

I love the way you say that. It's such complicated.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:45

If you think I remember just sitting next to you, and you'd be just looking, we'd be doing like a polar fire mission, you'd be looking at just going, what the fuck are these cunts talking about? What are they talking about? I don't get it. I just don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:58

And I remember when we started to do the dry fire stuff, and I just remember thinking the angle of my mortar right now does not look safe. I would have fucking killed all of us, there's no doubt about it. So great call from 3RL to kick me out of that course eventually, but yeah, anyway, we'll leave that one there.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:14

So from the you stay because you I go to Support Company with uh Steve Penner and all those boys, and you stay in our company, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:22

Go back to ELF Company, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:23

Yep, and then 2006 Timor kicks off.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:27

Uh goes crazy. Yep. You deploy with Timor?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

No, I didn't deploy with Timor, actually. So actually, that's a great question. What happened there? I think Bravo Company went with Timor, and we were supposed to go to Solomon's, or we did go to Solomon's, Elf Company went to Solomon's. I can't remember. Yeah, Elf Company went to Solomon's, and I actually went to my uncle's wedding that week.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:50

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:51

So I missed Solomon Island's because we weren't preparing for Solomon's, it was just a random event. Clare up bang, and then off we went. But because I was at my uncle's wedding, I remember I was stoked to be at my uncle's wedding, but I was also like, that was my first trip, and I've just missed it. You know, that's your first gong, that's your first, you know, did you miss the phone call or something? Or no, they they called me and then they just said, Yeah, presto, we're heading off to Solomon's. You're too far away. Yeah, you're too far away, mate. But don't worry, Iraq's coming up. So I was like, oh, okay, okay. So I'm not completely missing out, and they reckon that there's a good chance Alpha Company is gonna get Iraq. So I remember being a little bit okay with that, but uh, but at first I was devastated because I just remember thinking that could be the only trip. And then what happens if I leave the army? I don't even get a medal, nothing like no sign of me being here. I wanted to make an impact, you know, I wanted to be a part of it. So yeah, so ended up missing that. But then you're right, because then when they were there, Timor kicks off.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For the whole battalion.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

For the whole battalion. And then I'm getting told I'm gonna get attached to Timor, but then that means I'd miss training for Iraq. It means that I'd miss Iraq. I was like, nah, no, no, no, no, no way. I'm not missing the thing that I signed up for. Yeah, that's what I wanted to be a part of. Because there was no Afghanistan then, you know, it was like Iraq was the trip. Yeah, that was the one you wanted to be on. So I remember Sarge Jenkins called me, and he was our platoon sergeant at the time, and he goes, Presto, what's going on? I've heard that you're being reacted. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm going to Timor. Like I'm here, I'm with Bravo Company, getting ready to go to Timor. Like, what's going to happen with Iraq? And they're like, Well, look, if you go, it's over. Like, it's not going to happen for you. And I'm like, Well, so what are you, what are I gonna do? He goes, Well, leave it with me. And then he just made a few phone calls and then a few things got moved around. And luckily enough, just as they were boarding the plane, I got told presto, you're off.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:47

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

Yeah. So he he made it. So you were just about to get on. I was just about to go to Timor and I would have missed the arc. Yeah, yeah. Which I ended up going to Timor in the end anyway, later in my career. But yeah, it was lucky that yeah, I had good people around me that pulled me off. And once again, I think that's that's the key of I was I was a good soldier in regards to the soldiering, fighting, the stuff that I wanted to be good at. They obviously valued that enough to go, no, no, no, we need we want this guy in our section, you know what I mean. So, and I was with slats and all that, real good guys, so it was awesome that at least I managed to get pulled off that, stayed on the Iraq trip, and then sure enough, we went to Brisbane and started doing my pre-deployment training.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:28

So, you do pre-deployment training because I was meant to go to Iraq, but I did my shoulder, so I got taken off.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

Yeah, that's what I was thinking because I remember.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:36

Which fucking tore me up because that whole that whole 2006 man destroyed me because did my shoulder, got taken off the Orbat for Iraq, Timor, the whole battalion deployed to Timor for like six months, and there's like 30 broken dudes just And you're just stuck stuck in Delta Company, yeah, and there's nowhere worse to be than Lincoln.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

No, man, did nothing too.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:58

It was just sadness, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Absolutely sadness, and especially for quality soldiers like yourself, you know what I mean? You're the guys that should be on those trips. And there's so many good like Penner's another one, Penner Penner's section sucked, yeah, right. So Penner missed out, yeah, you know what I mean? But Penner was a fucking good soldier, yeah. You know what I mean? And I remember just thinking, thank fuck. Same as you, like when you said in IETs you're in an elite group of soldiers, eight section for us was elite. Yeah, like everyone was great at push-ups, chin-ups, all so all the fitness testing, because they said that they were gonna grade us based on our results, you know, for fitness testing, all the numbers. So we were cranking out high numbers for all of the pack marching, everything that there was, shooting, all the stuff that we needed to be in the top category for. We were in the top.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:43

Who's in your section?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:44

So I had myself, Dawsy. Bad Dawes? Yeah, so Josh Door. Yeah, so Josh Door. Uh, who else do we have? We had John Z, rest in peace.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:55

Who else do we have? Uh Johnny Ferinder.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:57

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

Yeah, Johnny Ferinder, Stegs.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:00

Went to Commando.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

Yeah, yeah. Stegues. Who else is there? Slats, obviously. And I'm sure I'm missing a couple of others. Oh, Woody? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Woody was in our section as well. So, and all of us were super fit, you know, super fit. Yeah. And slats, credit to him. It was just an awesome secko where you couldn't be unfit and be in his section. Like we were after after work, we were going for runs. After work, we were doing boxing. We were doing things because that was the mindset. If we're gonna go on this trip, we have to leave no stone stone unturned. We have to be elite. We've got to be one of the best.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:36

It was a fit battalion.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

It was a very fit battalion. Yeah. Alpha Company in particular. I remember when I used to look around at some of the other sections or sorry, the other companies, I never really saw anyone doing what we were doing. You know, like it was, and and you know, the whole Elfa Traz came in was because it became a place of like you're imprisoned here and you're gonna do it our way or no way at all.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:58

Yeah, I remember one time we did a fucking free beer phase back to back.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

Yeah, yeah, it was just purely smashed. It was just to smash you to be the best. Like that's what it was to do.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:08

20 clickers, 40 clickers.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:09

Which once again, because I was good at those things, like I felt like, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be. You know what I mean? Like, because a lot of those other battalions or sorry, the other companies weren't really as focused on those things, and that would have probably left me being a barracks soldier, which I'm not good at. You know what I mean? I would have I would have stood out in another way, which was probably a negative, you know, where because Elver Company was so dedicated to that, and with Iraq coming up, that just meant that we had to be good, and that just suited me fine. I was like, all right, cool, I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:41

2006, Iraq comes along. This is your first deployment overseas, this is what you wanted to do. Yeah, live ammunition, live guns, live bombs, live live everything. Iraq is this is 2006, Iraq is like in full fucking swing. Yeah, there is no go zones in Iraq. The US Marines, the US Army in general are just turning it on within that space of Baghdad as well. Yeah. You go to Kuwait for your pre-deployment?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:10

Yep. Pre-deployment training, yeah. Just that ground training, get that acclimatization training into you, and yeah, that that was awesome because yeah, you realize now, okay, we're getting closer.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:22

And this is the machine. Yeah, this is the machine.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

Because you're with the US, the US Army, yeah. We're with the US Army, and we're around bombed-out bunkers in Kuwait. So you're seeing where the Kuwait war happened, you're amongst it. You're starting to see all these things you've seen on the news. I'm here. I'm actually seeing this first hand, you know. So for me, I was super excited. I was like, oh man, this is exactly what I've dreamed of. And as you know, I almost missed out on the trip altogether.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:46

Let's go back to this.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

All right, can I go to the toilet first?

SPEAKER_06 1:20:49

Yeah, I'll go to this too. Uh, yeah, right. So just a quick break there. Presto's got a bladder of a fucking grandma.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:58

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:59

It's always been the pain of my existence. Even when I was on picket in Iraq, I remember I used to bring bottles out on the picket with me when you're standing around chicks who are on picket with you from the American Army, the medics, and I would have to duck around the corner and quickly piss in a bottle just to stay on picket. Yeah, it was shocking.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:17

Or the boys even remember in my room rather than walking in the middle of the night when it was minus five degrees. Yeah, I just had 10 piss bottles sitting by my bed. My kids are gonna listen to this as well, so don't get any ideas.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:29

Piss bottles under your bed.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

Yeah, honestly. I did, yeah. And I'd walk out the following morning and it'd be like Christmas. I'd be carrying all of the bottles under my arm out to the toilet and empty them all out, getting them ready to go for another week. What a shit fight.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:42

Now, Iraq almost didn't happen because like I said earlier, not only were we soldiering by day, by night, and by the weekend, we were either in hang on, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:17

Okay, we'll go to the podcast.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:26

That's cute. Yeah. She's got uh two front teeth are gone now, because she's got the two new ones coming through.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's nice. Yeah, it's always a funny stage. Oh, yeah, because we're gonna talk about um how I almost missed out on her own. Well, that's what I'm coming, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:40

So we're coming up with that now.

unknown 1:22:42

I just remembered that.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:43

Like I said earlier, not only that we that we not only that we were soldiers by day, we were partiers by night and by the weekend. So we'd without fail, Wednesday nights was like at at Wollongong, Monday nights was like Scuba, Tuesday nights was Scruffy Murphy's, you know, like there was every single night we had a night, because majority of us were single. Yeah. So we'd just stick together and even we if even if you weren't single, you'd come out with the boys and we'd just get on the piss every night without fail. And then next morning we'd get smashed with PT and just I don't know how we did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:20

Well, I remember how we did it. We would drink beers for a while, and then it'd get to like one o'clock in the morning, we're like, right, are we gonna go home now and wake up horribly tired at the end of the sail through, or we'd kick into the Red Bull vodkas, yeah, give us a bit of a heart spike so that when we hit PT, we're geared up, we're good to go. And then we'd get to PT, we'd blitz it because we're full of Red Bulls, and then you'd finish PT and you'd crash. Yeah, like all of a sudden, I remember having that hot shower, and all of a sudden you're like, Oh man, I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:52

Some idiot had the idea of all right, let's do some TOETs and see how our skills are going.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:57

I know, and like we said, there's there's nights we had planned nights for each location we'll kind of go to. Friday nights generally turn out to be uh Northeys, and Saturday we'd go probably maybe Sydney into the city, and then Sunday we'd be back to Northeast again for the Sunday sesh. One happening Friday night, and like we said earlier, we'd never go out looking for a fight. We just wanted to go out, have fun, pick up girls, have fun, do whatever, go back to barracks and fucking talk about it the next day.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:27

But trouble always came to us because we're in you know, somewhat groups of you know, there's five or six of us, cleanly dressed, yeah, always always always nicely dressed, shaved faces, yeah, yeah. We stood out like dogs balls, they knew who we were, kind of. So it always came to us. So one night, what happened? What happened that night? And I was there, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:47

You were there, yeah. Which I only found out today, honestly. I just remember, I remember the story vividly, but at the same time, you kind of like who was there, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:55

I remember the spin kick quite vividly. Yeah, I don't know what it was. I thought it was a fucking that was actually pretty sick. Yeah, it felt good, it felt good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:01

But yeah, I just remember I was at the bar at Northeys, and then I was just ordering a drink, and I was talking to a girl that I'd liked at the time, and while I was speaking to her, this guy kind of stumbled and stood on my feet, and pretty hard too. And I remember I was just like, fuck. And I wasn't a prick about it at all. I just said to him, I was just like, hey mate, just keep your distance. Like you just stepped on my feet, and he goes, Oh yeah? And he just gave me this look, and then he looks over at his mates, and I'm like, What is he, what is he about to do? So I remember just kind of thinking, like, surely he's not gonna throw a punch here or whatever, because it's way too early in the piece. And then he just decides to stomp on my feet, like just start stomping on my feet like five or six times. And he just goes, How do you like that? And I just go, I'll be seeing you in a minute. And then I took I walked outside and I said, I'll see you soon, yeah. And and I kept pointing at him like and waving him over, like, follow me. And these are one of those instances where I should have walked away, could have walked away, chose not to. And we ended up waiting out the front, and you you must have come out the front with us because obviously he was with a group of friends, so I was thinking to myself, right? I remember it, we all came out, and his mates were all laughing, like they were all thought it was the funniest thing ever. And I was like, okay, well, you're gonna find out how funny this is in a minute. And then he came outside, and I remember as he was walking past, he obviously must have forgotten about it already, because he wasn't looking for me like I was looking for him, and then as he started to walk out, I just go, Oi, and he looks over at me and I go, Remember me? And then he goes, Oh yeah, and then he starts walking towards me, and then as he was walking towards me pretty aggressively, I just for some odd reason decided to pull out my spinning heel kick out of nowhere and jammed him right on the jaw and dropped him, and then he stood back up, and then his mate put down their kebab because they had a kebab wherever they'd just been, and bang, it just kicked off like it was just I remember we were on the main street of where Northeys is, and it spilled out onto the streets because the guy tried to tackle me onto the ground, and good old rugby lessons taught me of how to stay upright in contact. So he's obviously tried to drop me to the ground. I've managed to push him down to ground level, and I just remember standing over the top of him and just raining down punches. And a lot of it was panic, to be honest, because I didn't like the fact that he had my feet wrapped up or he had my legs wrapped up, and I was like, I do not want to hit the pavement here. Because obviously things like jujitsu and stuff wasn't as big as what it is now. And I remember thinking to myself, I don't want to hit the pavement. If I'm on the ground, I'm out of control, who knows how many friends are going to start running in and laying boots in. So I just remember just my priority was stay upright and just start raining punches until he lets go. And I remember, I don't know if you call it credit to him or not, or just stupidity and stubbornness, but he wouldn't let me go. And I just kept punching and punching. And I just remember at one stage, every time I started to pull my hand back and cock it for another one, my hand was just getting wetter and wetter by the second. And I didn't realise what was happening. All I know was, shit, I'm inflicting damage. Like, and there was like blood all up my forearm up to my elbow, and I just wouldn't stop. And I just remember thinking nothing at all, other than I'm not gonna stop. And I just kept going because it was it was the fear response, but at the same time, I think it goes back to what we spoke about before that belittlement and that taking the piss out of me. It really caught up with me, and it was like a moment in time of where it's all gonna come out at once, and everything that I've avoided because I didn't trust myself of controlling myself, and for the first time, no one had come over yet to stop me. And I remember his girlfriend was on my back and started clawing at my back, trying to stop me, and I just wouldn't stop. And then eventually, finally, I think it was a police officer that came over and tackled me off him and put me on the stairs, and I could just hear the chaos of what had just happened after the fact. So I just remember, and you could probably touch on this more than I can, but I do remember him just screaming out, my eye, my eye, like I just want my eye. And this sounds really gruesome, right? I don't want to come across as like a hero by doing these things because I reflect back on that kid and I just think, fuck, man, you know, you just needed a mentor. You needed someone in that moment of your life to make you realize this isn't cool. You know, this isn't the way to deal with shit. But I didn't know, you know what I mean? And you don't know what you don't know. And at that time, I was just hellbent on if I felt like I was threatened or someone intimidated me, I had to do something. And I did go too far in that instance. And I remember sitting on that pavement and hearing the screaming and the yelling, ambulances arriving, police arriving, and even a police officer was getting right into me. He's like, Who the fuck do you think you are, mate? Do you know what? You've done. And I honestly didn't know. I just knew that, like, yeah, there's damage, but how much I don't know. But yeah, I just remember just sitting there and I remember a few people were trying to get me out of the situation, going, is he under arrest? Because if he's not under arrest, you can't hold him. You know what I mean? And they were like, No, he's under arrest. And they're like, Well, he's not in cuffs. And then sure enough, by someone saying that, which was probably not a good call, they put me in cuffs, put me in the paddy wagon, and then I spent the night in the cells. But because of that night, and I did with Pritchy, Pritchy was there in that fight with me as well, and he ran off into a different direction because he was also in his own level of trouble at that time with the law. And once again, like you said, all these people seem to find each other and come to the same battalion at once that have got all these childhood issues. But yeah, I just remember being in the cells for the night and having to answer all these questions and get cross-examined, and then sure enough, the following day it was the realization of I'm gonna miss Iraq because of this. And yeah, sure enough, when they used to call the names out for the orbit, they kept putting an asterisk on my name of like private Preston if things work out when it comes to you know criminal charges. So credit to the guy that I got into a fight with. He had admitted that he started the fight and he caused it. And he also heard that we were going overseas. He obviously didn't know we were soldiers, and he apparently did take acknowledgement of like, look, I obviously messed with the wrong group of people. I acknowledge that I did start it, so I don't want him to miss out on his Iraq trip because of something that's what he said. That's what he said. Fucking hell, yeah, and I remember being on leave and getting the call from the constable at the time, and she just said to me, She just goes, Look, you're very lucky, but yeah, just take this as a warning, you've got to pay a fine now of disturbance of the peace, and hopefully you can move on with your life, and that'll be the end of it. But I could honestly say that's probably the last ever fight that I got into that extreme.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:50

It shook you up.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:51

Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:51

I remember it, yeah, because it shook you up.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:53

Yeah, because I because what shook me up was every other fight I'd ever been in before that, I felt like I was in some level of control. Control, yeah. Yeah, but that was the first time I felt like I completely lost control.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:03

I I only remember the the spinning heel kick, but I don't remember. I don't remember the after though. Yeah, I don't remember any of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:09

Well, because that fight spilled out into four different directions. It did, yeah. You would have probably just said I was fighting with someone.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:14

I was fighting with someone, but I can't remember. Like it just and then I think we did a runner. I think when Pritchy did a runner.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:19

Well, Pritchy, Pritchy did I took a call away, yeah. Yeah, I got caught by the coffee.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:23

I remember we all we all fucking dispersed. Fled fucking quickly.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:26

Yeah, and main reason is because there were trips coming up, there were things you didn't want to miss, you know what I mean? Like there was a lot on the line, but at that time, I just didn't have the tools in my belt to walk away and and deal with it appropriately. I didn't, you know, and and once again, the consequence of the past still wasn't sinking in, it wasn't ringing home, and yeah, I found myself in the same sort of situation, but far worse, you know, where like this time I've probably gone a little bit too far.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:55

Yep. So obviously a bit of time passes, get the phone call, everything's clear, happy days. Yeah, moving forward. We get to you know, you get to Iraq, well, get to so a Q8 mate, do a bit of uh climatization um training, and uh yeah, from there you do your your week in Q8 and again just getting used to the atmospherics and doing a little bit of CQB and obviously a bit of a vehicle training from there, jump on a another Hilo, a Hilo, or a It was Chinook, it was, I think it was. Yeah, I think it was a Chinook, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then we got choppered in with that. Yeah, I just remember we were flying in at night as well, because they normally would do it at night so you're less visible. And then yeah, I remember they set off the countermeasures, and I I just like fuck, are we are we being fired at? Like, but apparently we were just over a hot zone where like they've been renowned to be fired at, so they let off the countermeasures just in case. But I just remember just going, man, this is sick. Like, this is everything you've been waiting for, you know. So yeah, I just remember that moment, and yeah, it was pretty cool, it's surreal moment.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:58

Let's get my laptop, sorry. So you land into baggers. Yep, how is it? Again, again, like you're flying in, all these countermeasures going off. It's you know, I know what it's like because I flew into Afghanistan. Same thing. You're like, oh fuck, this is this is the real deal. This is what we signed up to do, and this is what we volunteered to do. How did you feel? How were all the boys? Everyone's just smiling and everyone's just palmed.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:21

They were to begin with, and and the funny thing is, you know how I keep alluding to the baptism of fire, is I feel like that exposure to all these different things, you're just constantly just in wow, another moment, another moment. Like, you know, those moments in your life where you're like, I'll never forget this. And I remember when we were walking to the mess for the first time, it was like the following morning, we were walking to the mess, and because we were attached to the cache there, which was the military hospital, all of a sudden, as we're walking to the cache, this American soldier is on the back of a gator where you know they take in casualties, and clearly they'd just been involved in IED, and this guy was burnt to a crisp, and his mate was on top of him, giving him CPR as he was shooting past us to get him into the cache ASAP, and this guy was lifeless. You know what I mean? Like there didn't look like there was much to hold on to. But I just remember seeing moments like that and just going, if my family knew what we'd just landed in, they wouldn't be so comfortable. Because I I just you see those things or hear about those things in movies, but you're seeing it for the first time for real, yeah. For real. And I just remember seeing that guy and just taking a moment going, that guy's family is gonna be getting a phone call home today. And and that really hit me strong of like, my vigilance here has to be next level. You know, I can't come here and treat this like I have other things in my life of like, you know, check in, check out when you feel like this is something where I owe it to my mates, I owe it to myself to come home safe and make sure that I've got my head on a swivel at all times. And I really did. I remember even just being in every guard box or whatever, like I was just constantly wanted to make sure that when I was checking in vehicles, doing mirror checks and looking for things, I was taking it seriously because I knew that if I get that wrong, it's not just me, it's my mates' lives that are in my hands. Exactly. And what a responsibility to have, you know, like when I think about the fact that we're 21, you know what I mean? We're just kids, checking for bombs, checking for bombs, you know, and you've got bombs on you, you know. Like I I was the grenadier, so I had all the 40 mils on me and everything. I just remember walking around with this stuff. You feel like you're you're on top of the world, you're in control, you've got such power, and it's just crazy because you're 21. You know, now I'm 41, and I think back then, 20 years ago, I'm just like, fuck, man. Like I knew nothing. Nothing. Yeah, absolutely nothing about the world. But at the same time, you did feel like, right, this is what I'm here for. This is what I trained for. I'm stoked, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:53

And what was the role? It was uh sectet, correct? Second, and just just to listen to explain what the sect debt was?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:59

Yeah, so security detachment. So basically, we were looking after the Australian embassy and all of their diplomats. So basically, when they were going to meetings, our job was to escort them, drive them to the meeting, usually be at the Department of Defense, and we would stand outside the meeting and make sure that basically nothing would kick off. And if it would, it's our job to protect them and get them out of there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:19

How long was the deployment?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:20

Uh, six months.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:22

And how'd it go? Talk me through this deployment.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:24

Yeah, look, it was a it was a good deployment in the respect of I felt like we had a really good mix of freedom but soldiering at the same time. So we were allowed to drive around in the green zone, go to shops. Like I've got Saddam Hussein notes and things like that, because I just thought, I mean, this stuff's gone. You know what I mean? Like, what a part of history to be a part of. 100%. And a cool part of history that I will touch on is while we were over there, and it was on my picket, I was on the um Mag 58, and Saddam Hussein, his convoy, drove past me for his hanging. And I was on picket at the time. And I remember watching that convoy go past, and Slats was on the radio, and he goes, How does that feel, boys? You're a big part of history. And I thought, wow, like that's that's a cool moment, you know what I mean? Like, because it's one thing to be there, it's another thing to see, like, this is why you're here. Saddam Hussein is the biggest part of why we're here, the biggest part of the jigsaw puzzle. And you're about to watch his convoy go past, and what a convoy it was, it was huge, just to yeah, end his life. That's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:27

I've had a couple of Delta guys that were there, yeah, yeah. A couple of Delta guys that were contributed to catching.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:32

And isn't it amazing that from different eyes at the same time, at the same time?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:37

Different stories, different people, different armies, yeah, different perspective, like you said, yeah. It is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:42

And I just remember, and equally, what I found really interesting, the days after, when you'd go to the embassy, oh sorry, not the embassy, the Ministry of Defence, you would speak to local Iraqis, and I remember I was like, Oh, so you must be happy, you know, like Saddam Hussein's gone. They're like, No, this is bad. I'm like, bad. And they're like, Yeah, like he he keeps things in order. Like, there's a reason why ISIS and all these terrorist groups were kept at bay, yeah, was because he had reigned. Yeah, he might have overstretched his reach. Just a little bit, just a little bit. A little bit, a little bit, but I mean, when you compare to what's happened since, yeah, it's fucking chaos. You know what I mean? Now it's like it's the wild, wild west. You know what I mean? And once again, I'm not gonna get into the diplomacy of it all. However, when you speak to the locals and they're not happy about it because they're scared now more than ever. I found I found that really interesting because I thought it was gonna be the complete opposite. I thought he was this massive oppressor who everybody under him was unhappy and oppressed. But clearly there were elements there that wasn't good.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:52

Oh, for sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:54

And once again, maybe they were bad people too. So maybe maybe that's why they were enjoying the rain while it lasted. However, you know, you look at the subsequent fallout of that, yeah, it does show that it wasn't all what we thought it was.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:06

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:08

So anything um like how often you're doing jobs? Is it is it a everyday thing?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:14

Is it a yeah, everyday mostly? So when we were in the embassy, all our job was to be on picket and basically just guard the embassy itself. And then when you were at the cove, which was another location in the green zone, that was when you were doing more of your diplomatic sort of escorts where you were escorting them around the place, for example. So yeah, so and you were there with Berjo, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:35

Obviously, you had Berjo on uh previously, and then he went through the totally, yep. Uh obviously Berjo went through the scenario where he unloaded a 58 into a truck. That would have been uh how was that?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:48

Yeah, that that was a pretty intense time, you know, because you're in the green zone, you know what I mean? So for the most part, we're not doing what the special forces guys are doing. You know what I mean? You feel like you're kind of babysitting a little bit more than anything. Don't get me wrong, you're still in threat. Like there were rockets that were landing in the green zone all the time. However, from small arms fire or anything of the such, you didn't feel like you were immediately under threat, you know. They'd have to get through so many checkpoints to get to that point. However, yeah, when you hear it go off, you do think to yourself, what the fuck's happened? Like for it to get here, something's got to be pretty bad. You know what I mean? So, yeah, and sure enough, within our zone there, we were in charge of this checkpoint, and the rulings are pretty clear in the checkpoint. Do not go past these points because you're at risk of being shot. It's very clear. From what I understand, this guy obviously went away on leave and the checkpoint had changed. So there used to be the checkpoint was at the end, they realized that's not a good idea. We need to make it that the first checkpoint's at the start, so that they have to hit these three bumps before they get to us to slow them down. And then if they don't pay attention to those bumps and don't wait to be called forward, it's very obvious. Because especially at night, you'll see their high beams tilt up and down. So you know they've already gone past a certain point without permission. So this guy obviously wasn't paying attention and yeah, cost him his life. So, and it just shows that that's the thing of being in a war zone, is like there is no guarantees, you know. There is no guarantees.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:14

That's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:15

So yeah, and that's what you kind of sign up for, isn't it? And that's why my family, I don't know what your family like when you went to Iraq and Afghanistan, but they cried at the airport. Oh, yeah, definitely munditch, yeah. Yeah, you don't know, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 1:42:27

Like well, there's the dudes at 41 dudes that didn't come back.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:29

Yeah, well, there you go. From Afghan, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:31

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:32

Yeah, yeah, just going to do their job. And yeah, yeah, I remember, especially when Jake Kovco that incident happened, we were sect at 10, they're sect at 9. So we were going to replace them. So I remember when I heard that story, I just remember thinking, I've just been trying to sell my family, it's okay. Like everything's gonna be okay. And then you hear over the news that we've lost a soldier. It's hard to explain that now, you know what I mean? Because yeah, it just shows that at war things can happen, like it's not a safe place to be.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:00

Yeah, uh what else happened in during your trip?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:08

Yeah, so I guess there were always moments like and and I feel like when you when you're in places like that, and I'm sure there's a lot of guys that will attest to this, it's it's about wrong place, wrong time. You know, so so you could be doing everything right. And what scared me the most about Iraq, if I'm being honest, wasn't being in a firefight, it was the IEDs. IEDs, yeah. That threat scares the shit out of me because it doesn't matter how trained you are. You know what I mean? Like you're trained to look for IEDs. Like we did this amazing course with the Americans over there where they showed us what to look for, the diggings in the side of the road, you know, like even dead animals and cuttings of the grass to show where they've got a clear walkway or a pathway, or even things like power lines they could use or power posts they use as a marker of that's when they're going to detonate. So very clever of what they do. I think a lot of people think when we go over to places like that, that you're versing these uneducated people that don't know how to fight. These guys have been at war since the beginning. You get good at something when you do it long enough. In your back yard. In your backyard, you know what I mean? And you know exactly, and they start to learn your SOPs and everything. They know all of it. So they know what you can get away with and what you can't. But I remember when we were over there, that was my biggest fear was that something was going to detonate and it would be over before I even have a chance to fire a bullet. So that really, really scared me. And even there was a couple of times I remember I was at the Ministry of Defence. Um, we would always have one person staying by the room that the diplomat was having a meeting in. Then there would be someone in a vehicle ready for to react if we needed to to pick them up and get them out of there. So you'd sit in the car park in the car, ready to go. And I remember sitting in there and you just got your radio on. And I remember I was playing on my PSP at the time. You know, they were the I was playing fight night for anyone who loved that. So, and I was just chilling out, and the next minute I know, I just I'm parked against this wall, and on the other side of the wall, this massive explosion. Like it was big, like the whole car rocked and jumped, like it was huge. And I just remember standing there holding onto my PSP in the driver's seat, just still, like waiting. Like, is this bracketing? Like, is someone gonna fire another, whatever the hell that was in our direction? I just went there dead quiet, and I remember Woody was in the you know, the diplomat side of things, he was standing next to the meeting room, and I just hear this radio, presto, are you okay? And I'm like, Yeah, I think so. And and it was just that moment of just pause where you just don't know, like, you know, is there another one coming? Or more to the point, the only thing that stands between me and whatever landed on the other side of that wall was a wall. You know what I mean? So, and it was a thick wall, like it's a big compound, yeah, yeah. But still, it just shows you, you know, and when we were driving out and you could see the decimation of what happened, you're just like that just shows you. It doesn't matter how good you are, you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's over, you know. So, and there were there were a couple of instances of things like that, but ultimately I would say, you know, besides going down Route Irish, when we used to go down Route Irish, which I think at the time was the most dangerous road in the world, to me, that were they were cool experiences because I just remember you're not gonna feel that level of anxiety, that level of intensity, that adrenaline in anything else you do again, you know. And I feel like a lot of people they go and seek that when they leave the army, they go and do like free diving out of planes and things like that, or go shark diving and things after because they're different. Yeah, they want to chase that adrenaline junk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, their adrenaline junkies after that because once you feel it, it feels so good. You know, no different to you still shooting now. Yeah, it's a thing that keeps you somewhat connected to something that for a period of your life it did feel good.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:01

100%, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:02

Yeah, and and I remember doing room entry drills and all those sort of things, and I just remember while I was doing it, I just felt so alive. You know, I just felt so good. And then when you come out of that, and I remember when I got out, I fucking went into fantastic furniture. You know what I mean? And I'm just carrying fucking couches.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:16

Well, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:18

I'm carrying fucking couches to people, you know what I mean? You're thinking, you're sitting there thinking to yourself, is this what I've become? You know what I mean? Like no one would know I've shot a bullet, no one would know that I've I've done anything in my life worth talking about because all I'm doing right now is handing people furniture, shitty furniture, shitty furniture that people were complaining about because they paid 20 bucks for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:41

We'll talk about that transition to fantastic furniture after. Sounds good. So your rack trip ends back to Australia, man. How'd you go uh getting back to Australia? All cashed up as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:53

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, same thing. Fuck, you know, you've got all this money. Piss it up, little wall. No one's told you anything about, you know. I I remember that they had a meeting with us. Hey guys, be careful. Don't buy a home in WA at the moment because there's been a mining boom. You'd be spending at top dollar. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:08

Which is stupid because you should have.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:09

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean In theory. In theory, yeah. I mean, a lot of people lost money through that period because they bought it at peak time and then their housing prices dropped. So decent advantage.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:17

But which is now four or five times fucking less than.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:20

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it still would have been better. You would still would have been better off. And and more importantly, okay, if you can't do that, what can you do with it? You know what I mean? Like, why not teach us about shares? Like, why not teach us about putting it in? Speak to a financial advisor, like a good one that everyone knows.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:35

Here for young players out there. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:37

And and that's what I'm doing now in my this second part of my life. With my money, I'm maximizing my money. You know what I mean? I'm not just letting it sit in the count like I did. Even for 90% of running my business, I let it sit there. Now I let the money work while I'm working.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:51

Compound.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:51

Yeah, 100%. And no one teaches you that. You know what I mean? Like I remember someone pulled me up on it, and I'm sure we'll go into that the post-military career stuff. But yeah, I had all this money in my business account sitting there, accumulating what I thought was wealth, and it was. But I remember someone going, What the fuck are you doing with this amount of money sitting in an account that's not even a high interest account?

SPEAKER_06 1:49:13

Because it could do so much more, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:14

Yeah, and I'm like, Well, what should I be doing? They're like, Did you know this could be yielding you 10 to 15% per year? And you think of 10 to 15% and you're getting in the millions. What the fuck could you do with that?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:26

You know what I mean? Like what a stupid thing. You know what I mean? So you're doing well, but you could be doing exceptionally well. So, and even for young diggers, they should be getting taught you're getting decent pay, you're getting your food paid for most part, you're getting your accommodation paid for by most part, you've got some spare change. Why isn't someone telling you what to do with it? Invest.

unknown 1:49:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:46

So to anyone listening, if you are a young digger and you are listening, please go speak to financial advisors and make sure it's a reputable one because just like any other industry, there's some shit ones out there that'll take you fucking for everything. But there are also some really good reputable ones, and that's what you're gonna find.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:00

Sports pet is not a financial advisor. That's exactly. But I'd also do say go punt because I love a punt.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:06

I'm not good at it.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:07

I'm horrible at losing money. But yeah, don't go to don't go to sports pet. That's right. Or neds. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, right. So you get back from get back, all cashed up, blow your money, spend it, do have fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:18

I bought a Jeep Wrangler off one of the boys on base. I ended up buying all this furniture for the apartment we were living in. No, blue one.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:25

Blue one, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:26

It was Pims's. That's right, yeah. Yeah, so I bought his. Um, and then what else did I do? Yeah, I just bought all this expensive furniture. I didn't buy just fantastic furniture, furniture. No, I bought these leather couches, I bought all the best cutlery, everything for the apartment that we were staying in. You know what I mean? Like, not realizing like I'm going to be moving another 13 times after this, and it's all going to get damaged and wrecked. You know what I mean? So, yeah, everything. The beds, TVs, I bought all of the most expensive shit I could find. Not to mention just pissing it up against the wall, like you said. You know, I went on a holiday and I stayed in like a presidential suite for like, you know, five grand a night. I was just, you know, just doing stupid shit. Don't get me wrong, enjoying the fuck out of it. But then when you get to the end of it all and you've got nothing to show for it, yeah, it's a bit scary.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:12

Got memories.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:13

Yeah, you got memories. That is true. And luckily enough, I did well at the end of it all. But I mean, like, if that was your moment to invest and build off that, you could that could have been your moment.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:22

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Timor kicks off. Yep. This is where you get your trip to Timor. Are you back to ELF Company? You stay in our staying in ELF company. Stay staying in ELF Company. T More kicks off 2007. Yep, two thousand and seven, yeah. Yep. What when did you deploy? Two thousand seven, two thousand eight, yeah. Was it two thousand eight, was it?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:39

It might have been, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:39

I honestly went two thousand and seven with Bravo Company.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:43

Oh, yeah. So it might have been two thousand and eight then.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:45

So you yeah, you I think you would have been the replacement for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:47

Well, we Got reacted because of the shooting of the president over there.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:53

Yeah, yeah. So we were there for the presidential elections.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:56

Yes, yeah, yeah. So we actually got reacted because of the shooting of the Koch. And then we were going to go over there as a show of force. And what I thought was going to be we're going to go over there and go do some soldiering. You know, we were going to go get them, deal with it, come home nice and early. But I have to remind myself I'm not in special forces and I'm not going to do all the cool shit that I'd like to do, right? Which obviously touches on why I really had that regret of not trying to go further with my career, you know, and wanting to be. In saying that, would I have done well knowing that I'm fucking pretty average at working out navigation? I was pretty average at mortars with the math side of things. And I know to be a soldier in the special forces, you've got to have those other elements to your game. You know what I mean? You've got to be exceptional at those things. Could I have done that? Yeah, for sure. But I also was still a kid in my head. I still hadn't matured to the level that guys had when they're going to that level. You know what I mean? So I had all the attributes fitness-wise and everything. It just wasn't that wasn't the side of me that had really perfected yet.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:55

Teamwall trip comes up. You deployed a teamwork. Is it the company thing? Is it a particular company?

SPEAKER_02 1:53:00

Just the Alpha Company got raised to it.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:03

All the same dudes that went to Iraq with.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:05

No, no. And that was the problem. Yeah. Like it was just a lot of new diggers coming through. Because a lot of those guys got posted out to support company. Yeah, supporting support company. And then you know what it's like? When you've got the trick you want, you leave. Yeah. Like some of so, and you know what they say, like anything, right? The worst thing that can happen to a football team sometimes is winning a premiership because then everybody leaves because they've won a premiership. Yeah, and that's what it's like with Iraq and Afghanistan. Guys go and get that big trip and then they're like, sweet, I'm going home. Support like that's it. Yeah, or support company, whatever the case may be. Yeah, like you said, support company is that why, yeah. That's where everyone came.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:35

Like Manny Jacobs, all of them from our company, and I was already down there.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:39

Yeah, yeah. And then there's cool guys there, you know. So like that, that becomes like an awesome place to be. But then if you're not in that and you're an elf company still, like I was, you're an alpha trust. Yeah. You're still in like high performance, like having to go somewhere, but not places you necessarily want to go anymore. And I remember I was getting so close to finishing up my four years that I was just like, do I really want to go to Timor? You know, like, because I know now that I've seen what happens in these peacekeeping missions, you're not gonna want to do, or you're not gonna do the things that I really wanted to do. But I was told, look, it's gonna be an awesome trip. We're gonna go there, we're gonna have some fun. It's not gonna be as green as you think it's gonna be. It's gonna be just like a boys' trip. And I was at that point in my life and career where I just wanted to have fun with the boys, you know. Like I feel like I've done the soldiering side of things, not to the level that a lot of people have, but a decent enough level to be satisfied. And then I went to Timor thinking it was gonna be like that, and it was far from that. Like we were eating rat packs, like we were, you know, out in the field doing things that, you know, once again, some people might love that shit. I was over it. You know what I mean? I really was. By the end of getting to four years, I was honestly over it. I just felt like the whole barracks life, the whole, you know, doing as you're told, because I felt like after Iraq, we were gonna get treated differently, a little bit like senior diggers. These guys have been placed now, they know what they're doing. New lieutenant comes in, won't mention his name, hate his fucking guts, and he just made the place fucking hard again. You know, where it was like you've got to prove yourself again. You're back and, you know, step one again.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:07

And I was just, I was done with that shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:09

You know what I mean? I felt like I'd done that, you know. Like you said, you've been treated like shit, you've dealt with all that shit. Now you're getting treated like shit again. And I remember a lot of guys were starting to leave and go to special forces for that reason. Because they were recognising that we're back to square one again, you know. So they were going to special force because they wanted to be treated like a fucking adult, you know, where where we were back to being treated like new diggers, kids again, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I was just done with that. But you know, I did my best over there in regards to trying to be a senior digger and lead by example, but then I was also having that side of me of I was getting strappy and I was getting the shits. You know, I was really getting the shits with the place.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:46

But you get sent home, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 1:55:47

I do get sent home, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:49

So interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:50

Well, before that trip, I went away to South America for playing for rugby, yeah, ASRU. Then I get injured on that trip, and it was a significant injury, like a sublux shoulder, so it popped out and popped back in again. Never was 100% right, got the surgery, so it wasn't it wasn't really right. But I went over there anyway because, like I said, I was told it was gonna be a great trip. And I'm doing my rehab over there, but I'm still having a lot of pain and I'm not doing too well. And they were gonna send me home, and I really should have probably taken the ticket to go home, right? But instead, I decided to stay because someone told me, hey, we've got connections with a guy over here, we can get some steroids, and you can start working on it like that, and this thing's amazing for repair, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:31

So what was that?

SPEAKER_02 1:56:32

Decca. Decca, yeah. Yeah, so it was like decker and sus tablets. It was a bit of a nah injectable, yeah. Yeah, so I basically took it upon myself, yeah. Fucking oath. Like, and then there was a big group of us that started doing it, right? So I just started injecting it, and sure enough, injury fucking healed. I'm getting very strong, very fit. And you were already pretty fucking. Yeah, I was pretty, I was pretty elite level already. Oh, I think I was anyway. And then now it's taking you to the next level, but it's starting to get obvious, you know what I mean? Like I'm popping out of my shirt, like things are starting to happen where it's just like, okay, this guy. And and that's my fault that I should have stopped when the injury was feeling better.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:07

But you weren't the only one.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:08

I wasn't the only one. That's the thing. No, definitely not. And I just remember I was just starting to enjoy it because you're feeling a million bucks, you know what I mean? You're training hard, and I was training hard, I was training twice a day and just you know, doing all that sort of stuff, trying to be, you know, as fit as I possibly could. And then all of a sudden it got leaked. And then next minute I know, we're keeping an eye on the listings of what is expected to come in for the day for choppers, for example, and sure enough, there's a chopper coming in that wasn't expected to come. And I did catch wind of like, hey, I think we might be in trouble when it comes to you know testing side of things. Sure enough, they came in, they tested me, and my testosterone was off the charts, and they were like, Look, it's clear as day you've been taking steroids and yeah, we're we're gonna send you home. I'm like, why are you sending me home? Like at the end of the day, I'm still good at my job. You know what I mean? I can still do my job. And I ended up having an argument with one of the CSMs where he goes, Well, I don't see it that way. I see it as no different. Steroids is no different to taking illicit drugs. I said, So let me get this right. I'm in a trench with you, a firefight happens, and you've got a guy who's souped up on testosterone, ready to go, or you've got a guy that's pinging off his nut, doesn't know what the fuck's going on around him, is partying and dancing in the bullets thinking it's rain, and you reckon you'd rather that. And he was like, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm like, okay, cool. This isn't the place for me. So yeah, so straight away I'm just gonna be. So that said the bad tone of that uh yeah, that that was where the bitter bitterness started to kick in. I was I was really shitty. Don't get me wrong, complete fault of my own. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know how many in the end. I remember there was around about 10 of us that got sent home at once or something like that. From Timor, yeah. From Timor, yeah, for the same reason. And it was just, yeah, to me, it was just bullshit. And to me, it's a case of if that was a war zone and shit was actually happening, would you really send those guys home knowing that they're good diggers and that they're keen to be there and keen to help out if something kicks off? But the element was that there wasn't a threat, it wasn't that bad, and therefore, what the fuck do we need these guys for? You know what I mean? We need to set a tone here to the rest of the crew that this isn't acceptable, which I fully accept now, you know. Like I I get, but at the same time, I see it as it's yeah, pretty pathetic way to get go out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I got charged and everything, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:25

So I was doing I think they should make it legal.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:27

Yeah, mate, if if you're if you're taking testosterone and you're at elite levels, you know, like I can tell you right now, the moment my testosterone goes down, I'm doing something about it. You know what I mean? So, but I just see it as yeah, it is what it is. I I learned a valuable lesson of you are just a number, and at the end of the day, you make a mistake, you pay for it, and you know, it it held me in good stead in life of realizing that when you do these things, you you gotta pay for it somewhere.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:53

So you guess it sent back to Australia, what's happening? Is there a process investigations and blah blah blah?

SPEAKER_02 1:59:59

Yeah, investigations, and then it basically got to a point where they're like, they got us to speak to a lawyer, and they were giving us the option of like, look, you can fight this and stay in, you know what I mean, if you want to. And I just remember I was like, nah, my four years is here. I'm like, what do I don't want to be here anymore? I didn't want to go on the trip in the first place. And I know I some people might see that as like, that's really poor, you know, like from a soldier not to want to go somewhere, but it was just more of what the trip was, you know, and what what I thought it was gonna be. And to put that into context, there was a period there where we got sent out on a sentry mission where apparently a convoy of the guy that shot at the president was gonna be coming past us. So we were sitting on this hillside waiting for him to come past, and we were told we're gonna detain him. And I remember thinking to myself, oh, this is good. Finally, we're gonna be doing something that I can't wait to do. So I'm I'm a part of the group, I'm the leader of my group, and I just say, Boys, action, let's get ready. So we all hit action, ready to go, and as they're coming up the hill, we get radioed in, don't touch them. Apparently, they're going to hand themselves in. I'm like, apparently they're gonna hand themselves in. So sure enough, I'm standing there going, so are we doing this or not? And I get told, no, no, no, stand down. We are not going to do anything because they are going to hand themselves in. These guys see us standing up on this ridgeline and are waving at us as they drive past. Now tell me, is there anything more demoralizing for someone that's apparently been told you're a war fighter, watching a guy who literally started what could have been a war, driving past you and nothing gets said. Nothing gets done. He doesn't get detained. And by the way, do you think he handed himself in?

SPEAKER_06 2:01:39

No, no chance.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:40

He didn't. No, he didn't. So that that was three months into a trip that should have been three months sent home. We ended up staying there for further months because mission technically not complete because we have to stay there and keep an eye on the joint. I don't know what happened there in the end. Maybe they sent in special forces to actually go deal with it. Probably, yeah. Yeah, probably. You know what I mean? And yeah, and they're the things that you look back at and you're just like, God, I should have done something more with my career, you know. But at the end of the day, like I I also don't know if if I would have been cut out for it or not. Who knows? And that's the stuff that leaves the bitterness in you, is because you did have that feeling of like, what if? What if? So, and that's why I I honestly listening to your podcast and the stories of what these people go through, like I have the utmost respect for anyone who's done these things served in general, absolutely, because for a period of your life you are giving everything to that, but also the people that have gone in and dealt with the shit. Because I just think to myself, like, yeah, that's you've had that question answered. Am I one of the weak or one of the strong? The answer is you're one of the strong. And I think that's you know, you can hang your hat on that, you know, with a fair bit of pride.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:46

100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:47

Like I said, you're back in Australia, getting investigated, blah, blah, blah. Obviously, you're just stuck in a bit of an admin loop hole, and obviously with that comes a lot of guard duty.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:58

Yeah, yeah. And that and that that was where like you just get to the point of like, nah, this is fucks.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:02

And if anyone's experienced a three-hour hour guard room, yeah, it's just a dingy, disgusting place. You're guaranteed to have the hive straight away.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:09

Yeah, that's what they used to say, the guard room give, you know, and you come out and you just feel sickly. Yeah, because it's just like a stank-ass place. We're standing for HIV. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. So it was just a horrible place to be. And you know, you're waxing the floors for the 40th time for the day, and yeah, it's just not a fun place to be, you know. So, but that's what I got stuck with, you know, like yeah, standing at attention and being yelled at again. I just felt like I was back as a recruit because they treat me like shit, you know, because they they see you as like you're a linger. I'm not a fucking linger. I got sent home. You know what I mean? I didn't want to be here, you know what I mean? So, but then I just decided, like, you know what, fuck this. And this is where we go into the A-Wall side of things. I decided to get a thrifty truck. Did you? Yeah, just loaded it up on base. And I remember load your room up. Yeah, I had Sarge Higgins, I think, walk past me. He might remember this now. And he just goes, Private Preston, what are you packing for? I'm just going, I'm going, A-Wall, Sarge. And he just started laughing. We both started laughing. I was telling the truth. I was telling the truth. I had a straw hat on and this and straw in my mouth, like as a joke, because I was like a truckie getting ready to like go on a trek. And then yeah, I drove from Sydney to Perth. Not in Thrifty Truck. I just got that set up and sent it to Ridgeway. Oh god, yeah, shipped it over for one night, made up my mind.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:28

You didn't tell anyone?

SPEAKER_02 2:04:29

No, no, because I was worried that oh, I told Penner. Yeah, because he was my roommate at the time. And I just said, hey, Penner, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:37

I know what Steve's like too. He'd be just like, uh, don't do that, but anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:41

Yeah, no, he he was honestly like, no, fair enough. I know he's like, that's what I mean. He's that he's that sort of guy. Steve's that sort of guy, you know that movie, oh, I can't remember the one it is, where it's like, we're gonna go hurt some people. I don't want you to ask any questions after all while we're doing it. Yeah, but I need you to come with me.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:56

Yeah. All right, yeah, where's the keys? Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:58

Yeah, that's that's what kind of got henna with, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, and and that's why we were such close friends, because I just knew when shit hits the fan, he's gonna be there for you, you know. And he just said to me, Yeah, no worries, can you just do me a favour? Just leave the keys here and do that, and yeah, I'll I'll be in touch. And yeah, that was it. Just drove all the way across the Nullabore. What happens?

SPEAKER_06 2:05:18

Like, I've never experienced this before, and obviously, you're only that the only person I know, you know, that's been through this process. Like you leave, you don't come back. I'm sure your name's getting caught up. Private Preston.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:30

Yeah, yeah, and they did that for weeks. Everyone's just looking going, When's the thing? They did that for weeks and didn't think I was A-WOL. Yeah, so I kept getting paid by the military, but I wanted my time because apparently there's like a timer where like 28 days if you're A-WOL. Once you reach 28 days, you're off the list. Like it's over. Nothing to investigate. So for 28 days, I was in hiding, thinking like so. I stayed in this rental.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:51

Just waiting for MPs to rock up.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:53

Yeah, just waiting for MPs to rock up. But I knew I cut all my credit cards off. I did everything, like I full full went off their brick. Yeah, just thinking like I need to do this. Now, now I realize no one gave a fuck.

unknown 2:06:03

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 2:06:04

But I at the time I thought I was like some sort of vigilante that the whole world was gonna be looking for me. So then yeah, I was just in hiding playing PlayStation flat out and waiting for the timer to start. And then all my mates were reporting back on parade ground. I'm like, hey man, they haven't they haven't even realized you've left yet. I'm like, can you fucking tell them I've gone A-WOL? Because I want the timer to start so I can start counting down the days of which I've got to be in hiding, you know? And then sure enough, I got a phone call from someone, it was like an MP or someone, I think. And they were just like, Private Preston, we're aware that you've gone AWOL. Look, just come back, you know, we'll sort it out, and everything will be all good. You know, we just want to sign everything off legitimately. And I'm like, okay, can you ensure me that if I do come back, I'm not gonna be doing any jail time? They're like, oh well, we can't we can't assure that. And I go, well, then I can't assure you'll be seeing me. And they said, Oh, okay, I get the point. So you're not coming back? And I'm like, definitely not. And that was it. That was it. That was the last phone call. That's it. Yeah, that's it. Job done. Don't let that be a lesson to anyone out there that's surfing right now.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:04

That's how easy it is.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:05

But yeah, like it's just leave and go into hiding. Yeah, that that that's what it was at the time, you know. Like, and and you know, far out. There's so many soldiers to choose from. Who am I? You know what I mean? So, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:16

So that's so that was it. You say your 28-day hiding period was over.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:20

Yep. And just went back into normal.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:22

Come out of the sunlight, and you're just like, fuck, what do I had? Fantastic furniture right there.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:27

Well, yeah, well, I was still in Perth, and then that was when I was kind of like, you know, do I try Kickstarter back into rugby again? Now I'm in sort of like early 20s, and I'm thinking to myself, I I could probably do something with the rugby again. But it's been years since I've played full-time rugby, you know what I mean? So try to get back into that, but fuck man, I was getting injured flat out because obviously your body's just not primed for that. It was primed for soldiery. I could do a million chin-ups, I could do push-ups, pack marching, all those things. But high intensity sprints, angle changes, hitting contact, like all of a sudden now my body was just not prepared for it. So I was just getting injured flat out, just trying, and who knows, maybe the steroids had something to do with it as well. You know, just yeah, muscles just or tendons not as strong as what your muscles were, whatever the case may be. But I was just having lots of injuries. And then yeah, just decided to go find a new career. And then I ended up doing personal training, a course, and that's where I met my wife. And both of us had separate relationships at the time, but yeah, I just really liked what I saw and just decided to pursue her, and then we ended up having a common interest in each other, and she lived in Victoria originally and wanted to move back, and I just figured, fuck, you know, what have I got going on here at Perth now? You know, yes, I've got my family and great mates.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:39

Because you started a bit of a PT backyard business, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 2:08:42

Yeah, I did in personal. Yeah, I started I started.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:44

I remember when it was all going on, all talking.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:47

Yeah, but yeah, and and yeah, so I I did that, but once again, mate, I had no idea what I was doing with the business at that stage of my life. I was just taking cashies and you know, like no idea about scheduling and programming and like I just knew how to train people and push people, you know, and that's what I was good at. I was good at leadership, teaching leadership, and making people push harder than what they thought they were capable of. Because as you know, in the military, that's what you were taught. You realize fucking limits are just what you make of them, you know what I mean? And your brain will give up well before your body will, you know. So I just knew that's that's what I wanted to teach people is push people. So I was doing that, went to Geelong, Victoria, because Leachy was living there, and so was Woody. And they were living together, and I was like, look, my wife lives in, or my girlfriend at the time, she was living in Dandenong, which is the complete opposite side to Geelong. And I just thought to myself, well, I don't want to move over there in with her straight away because that's a bit full on. We've only known each other for a matter of weeks. So I'll just move in with my mates in Geelong, and then she can come and visit me, and vice versa. We'll do that. But we were traveling two hours each way, and yeah, uh the plan was that we were gonna start a business, a boot camp type business, with myself, Lichee and Woody. And then sure enough, Liche and Woody had a massive falling out, wanted to kill each other, and that stopped that whole thing. And then I ended up working out fantastic furniture just to make ends meet because I found myself full circle, like I used to be, of I haven't got enough money to pay the rent, I haven't got enough money to pay for my bills. Like I am in trouble, I don't have enough enough money to pay for my food. So I found myself going full circle to what I was when I was a kid when I moved to Sydney.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:28

So the army gave you stability, yeah, massive stability, because you guaranteed a paycheck, but no life skills. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 2:10:35

Like as in my and that's where I was lacking, and I always lacked, you know what I mean? Like I said, the boys were fucking dressing me. And and I found myself, I was dressing myself now, but I still didn't know all the other shit. You know what I mean? Just slowly, yeah, yeah. So yeah, just very slowly. So I'd get up a lot earlier, you know. So, but anyway, yeah, so I just found myself working at Fantastic Furniture and I just had that epiphany moment of fuck, is this what I've become?

SPEAKER_06 2:11:00

How long were you working there for?

SPEAKER_02 2:11:02

Like six to eight months. Where? Yeah, it's a big, you know, just and I used to joke, friends would call me, and I'm just like, whoa, fantastic. Like when I answered the phone and they were laughing, and inside I was crying. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I'm just like, this is fucked. This this is nothing to be laughed at. You know what I mean? Like this is a joke, and I'm and I'm the butt of the joke. Yeah, so that's how I felt. And you know, no offense to anyone working at fantastic furniture, but fuck. Like coming from what we have to that, like talk about extreme. Yeah, you know, what a change. So yeah, and I just found myself wanting to talk about the army all the time because I just had nothing else. Like that's that was my identity, and my identity was gone. So I just felt like who am I without it? So yeah, for four years, you know, you it's not a job, it's a lifestyle. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:48

So what's happening here? Obviously, you're making a bit of money, at least you're you're paying for your own stuff now. Obviously, you're six to eight months in of fantastic furniture, you know, it's only so much you can be.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:57

Yeah, that'll be oh, fantastic. Yeah, and then sure enough, while I was working at Fantastic Furniture, and I'm a big believer in this, call it kooky, but I believe life sends you messages. Are you paying attention? And this guy was walking through filling up rodent bait stations at Fantastic Furniture. And I bumped into it this is where it comes from. And I bumped into him with a trolley with a couch on it, and I was like, Oh shit, sorry, mate, I didn't realise you're there. And he's like, Oh, that's okay. And I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm filling up all the bait stations. I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, for rodents, and I'm like, what do you do? He's a pest control. I never even knew that pest control was like a job, you know what I mean? I just thought you'd just do your own pest control, you know, like at home. You buy more fundings products. Yeah, and and then I was like, Oh, is it a good job? And he's like, Yeah, I love it. I'm like, what do you like about it? And he goes, mate, you're essentially your own boss. You get your schedule for the day, you get a car, and you just drive around job to job to job and you're on your own. He goes, mate, I carry a PSP around with me and just between jobs, just play a bit of PSP and just chill out. And I'm like, fuck, I used to do that in Iraq. So I was thinking, like, this is perfect. Yeah. So I was like, oh, what's the name of the company? It was called Acacia Pest Control. It was a big company in Geelong or small. When I say a big company, it was just like a family-owned business in Geelong. But they were the biggest at the time. And yeah, I got their phone number, sent in a resume, and I didn't get a response for a bit, and I was desperate. I called him up and his name was Cam, was the boss, and I said, Cam, please let me come in. I really want this job. This is exactly what I need. Went in, had the interview, gave me the job, and yeah, just did it for about a year or two. And about a year or two in, I just realized the military had fucked me up of like, I don't want to receive orders from anyone anymore. I don't want to be told what to do and how to do it. And I thought, I can do this better. Like I really think I could do this and do it a lot better. But I still had that fear behind me. Of I don't want to do it on my own. And that was when I rang Penner and I was just like, hey mate, I've got this great idea. There's a hole in the market over here. There's only one major big company here doing it. And I think they're doing good, but we can do it better. And I think we can bring that military element in of discipline, integrity, all these things that we've learned, timings. We could really smash this out of the park, you know? And he he thought about it for about a week or so.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:17

Because he's living in Hoppers Crossing.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:19

Yeah, he's living in Hoppers, yeah, yeah. And and I really wanted him to do it. And then I remember calling him like a week later, and I was like, Yeah, so anyway, have uh you thought any more about this opportunity? And he's like, Yeah, man, I'll do it. In such typical penner fashion, you know what I mean? Not like, oh, look, mate, I'm thinking about it like that.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:37

Little laugh as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:39

Yeah, all right, yeah, why not? In that voice. Yeah, yeah, why not? And I was like, serious. And he's like, because I like who the fuck would join something isn't he's not qualified in it. We're starting from scratch, we've got no money, you know what I mean? I'm like, why would you? You know, typical penner. Yeah, all right. And then, yeah, sure enough, his parents gave us like a $20,000 loan. I used my wedding money to buy our first Ute, which was like $14,000, like a high lux work, mate. And then that was our office. Like, that's how we started. And we just started driving around together, advertising, started a website, and then just grinding. Like we were knocking on doors, we were dropping in pamphlets, we were just doing an amazing job. Social media just constantly marketing the shit out of it, really going to the papers, showing ex-military, this is what we do after life. You know what I mean? Give us a hand, we'll help you, we'll show you what level of service is, but give us a chance. You know, give us a chance to enter your house and show how much we respect it, just like you respect us. And sure enough, it just took off like wildfire. And don't get me wrong, the first 12 months was a real grind. And I feel like Penner felt that. And he was kind of at a point where he was like, oh, look, honestly, it's not for me. And when he said he was leaving, I'll be honest, I was petrified because I was like, fuck, man. Like he was my rock. Like he was someone that was so stable, so relaxed. I'm held to skelter. I'm like extremely driven for success. But at the same time, like, I know what I'm I've been like in the past. I quit when it gets hard. You know what I mean? And not, once again, not when it came to the hard shit of fitness and things like that, but when it came hard to the admin side of life, I didn't want a part of it. You know what I mean? Because I didn't believe in myself. I really doubted myself. And that was the first time I got thrown into the fire of like, well, sink or swim. You know what I mean? And I read a book. The book was The E-Myth, by the way. Anyone starting a business, highly recommend reading it. Because it goes into basically the mentality behind how to run a business. And one of the things that talked about in there that triggered me was if you don't decide to grow your business, you will forever be needed by your business and you'll be working hard for the rest of your life. And I just thought to myself, well, I've got a choice here. I can be a one-man band forever and do okay and work really hard and never see my kids or my family, or just accept that I'm gonna have no lifestyle. Or I could have the mentality of growth and build an empire and then eventually step back and watch it work. And then from that moment, I just decided that's what I'm gonna do. Like I'm just gonna build this thing up and go for it. And I did. I just started working harder than ever before, sacrificed a lot of time with family. I had two young kids. I literally started the business on paternity leave. Then within 12 months, get a phone call from my wife telling me that we're pregnant and we're having another kid. You know what I mean? So she's pregnant, we're having another kid. So yeah, so within 12 months of a business, I realized like, fuck, there's only one way here. Like single swim. Single swim. Yeah, and that's it. And yeah, I was petrified. I remember just like working so hard, so much so that like I didn't realise how much time I was missing out on at home, but I was just so dedicated to the pursuit of making sure my kids don't grow up in a world that I had to experience trying to figure it out for myself.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:50

And this is only five, six, seven years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:52

Uh well, when I started it, it was 13 years ago. The business ran for 13 years. Yep. And I remember when you started it.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:59

I just remember, and it was just you and Penner and 2013 is when it started. Yeah, because then Penner left and he went and did that search and rescue stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:06

Yeah, so he he wanted to do more, and it just shows you that military thing. You're still longing for it. Yeah. So he was still longing for that, where I was kind of like done with that, I feel like, because I was a bit more bitter. So that was where I was just like, no, I need something different, but what's going to make me excited, you know? And running a business to me was exciting, you know, because it wasn't pest control, because I can tell you right now, there's nothing sexy about pest control. But I find running businesses sexy. I find that like the pursuit of excellence, that's and teams, driving teams, that's what I found awesome, you know, something that I wanted to bury myself in. So yeah, I did. I just went to hell for leather in it. And so much so there were times where I just remember driving home, so stressed from dealing with invoicing, you're you're doing everything, absolutely everything. You're juggling a million things, you're wearing all hats and calling Matea up on the way home and just going, Hey, can you just have a whiskey in the shower waiting for me? And when I get in the door, I don't want to see the kids yet because I just need a moment. I just need to get through the day. And I would I'd just have a whiskey sitting on the shower floor, just zoning back out to zone back in and then come out and be like, hey, dad's home. But yeah, internally it was it was suffering. It was hard. It's a lot of work. It was a grind. It was a grind. Yeah, exactly. And no one sees that shit.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:17

Domate, man. Yeah. Starting a business is that's what it is. Yeah, and that's that's what you're doing. You're exactly right. You've got to prepare to sacrifice everything. Yeah, your financial freedom, your family, everything has to be sacrificed. Because you are, like you said, you are the the guy on the ground, you are the invoicing guy, you're the payments received guy, you're the banking guy, you're the receiving component department, you're happy to be able to do that. You're HO, you're everything. You're everything. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:42

Yeah, and and that's one of the things that you when you're in the zone, you don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? Like you really find yourself in a point of like, I don't care, I'll do whatever it takes. And I really did. I was just in the zone. I was just wanted success. And when you start seeing success, you want more.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:58

When do you start seeing that success of business after that 12 months?

SPEAKER_02 2:20:02

Yeah, I reckon Penna left and then I started implementing new systems and procedures and really dialing in how I wanted it to be. And I reckon within six months to 12 months after that, I just noticed the phone was ringing off the hook. And I was in roof cavities, you know, doing powder up there, like permethrin-based powder, up in the roof cavities for spiders and shit, and having a headset on, and just while I've got my mask on, like just stopping what I'm doing, answering the phone call, taking in a booking and keep going. And I was doing all of it, you know, and I was basically then hired two to three guys within 12 months and then just started loading them up with work, loading them up. And then once I got my third guy in, I just went, right, I can step back and step back, but I didn't take a foot off the pedal, I just went harder because now I was like, I need to keep these guys busy. So then I just started pushing that, keeping them busy, and then it just kept growing and growing and growing. And we ended up, I think, towards the end there, around about 13 or 14 staff members by the end of it.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:00

Which is a lot, isn't it? For a pest control company.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:02

For a pest control company, just what that 13 cars pretty much. Well, it's a multi-million dollar business. Yeah. All of a sudden, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:10

Yeah, because I remember like I knew you were getting successful when you opened up the the shop.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:15

Yeah, yeah, when you buy the warehouse.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:17

You buy the warehouse, the shop, and then you're getting all the videos done on social media, like something's happening. He's making it, he's making it making it happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:24

And a lot of it is perception, right? Because I was also selling that before it happened. You know what I mean? Like you've also got to show that you're big enough to handle it even when you're not. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because people aren't gonna use you if they think you're a one-man band for big jobs. So to get big jobs, you've got to look big, you know. So the one three hundred number, all of that, it's all a facade, you know, to make you look bigger than what you really are. Yeah, and they're thinking that I'm sitting in an office. Fuck, I'm sitting in a roof cavity right now talking to you.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:49

Sometimes I'm under a house and I'm talking to you on the phone, you know what I mean? But they don't know that. Like, yeah, but that was what I was willing to do to kind of get it to that point.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:57

Yeah. So there was really only one way that business was going.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:01

I think so. Yeah. And and I feel like that's the message to anyone out there is just if you have a belief and you've got to believe in it before it happens. You know what I mean? You've got to have that desire before there's any reward. And that's what I did. I just remember being just so dedicated to the pursuit of that, that yeah, eventually those little one percenters just add up, add up over time. And they did, they accumulated. And love Geelong for the fact that it's very parochial. It's somewhere where people will, if they like who you are and like what you're about and you're local, they'll use you. They won't use the big companies, you know, they'll they'll be dedicated to the space should be in it. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And they they would ignore the big franchises because they wanted to stick with the locals. Yeah, yeah. So it was great for that.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:45

And then you totally screwed them and sold to a big franchise.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:50

So, but it's one of those things. Look, one thing I did learn about franchises as well is that they ultimately wanted to buy Geelong pest control and the people in it. So we were still local, you know what I mean? I live local. All of the people that worked for me were local. It's just the money, the pool of money is now starting to go to the CEO in the UK. You know what I mean? Like that's where they start to clean up the owners and shareholders, you know what I mean? So, but in regards to the service and the people, same, same level.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:19

What was the hardest thing throughout all of that building this company?

SPEAKER_02 2:23:24

I can honestly tell you the hardest thing was recognising that when you've hit all the success success that we did, recognising I I was about to lose my family because of it.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:35

Is that because of uh minimizing the time with them?

SPEAKER_02 2:23:39

Yeah, yeah, and I feel like um you're so dedicated to that pursuit of excellence that you become a dictator a little bit, and my wife was working in the business with me, and I find it funny because towards the end of my time with GPC, Geelong Pest Control, people thought that my wife had it easier than everyone, and that we had it easier than everyone. No one saw how hard I was riding her and myself into the dirt to try and get us somewhere that was almost unachievable, unattainable. You know what I mean? Like that level of just a huge business, a huge business. But Matea would experience that day in and day out, you know what I mean? And there was no knockoff for her. We'd come home and I would still have that mentality. Have you done this yet? No, why not? And I was talking to her like we were spoken to in the military.

SPEAKER_07 2:24:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:30

And I didn't even realize it, Maddie. Like that's the thing. I didn't even realize I was doing it because I just snapped back into that drive for excellence that we had an alpha company, for example. Do whatever it takes. You know what I mean? And and at that time, if it meant speaking to you like shit to get things done, you did it. You know what I mean? And you either copped it or you left. You know what I mean? And for her, massive credit, I take my hat off to her, love her dearly for it. She put up with a lot because she believed in my vision, but it wasn't necessarily her vision, it was mine. You know what I mean? And she used to constantly call me out, going, at what point are you going to be satisfied? And my answer to her was never. So for her, she started feeling like, well, when do I get off this train? You know what I mean? Like we've already achieved so much. We could have so much life of flexibility, and you're choosing to go deeper and deeper and deeper, and you're dragging me in with you. And I was I was pulling us all in, and I was missing out on everything. My kids, all these different things, because I thought I was doing the right thing. Because I saw achievement for me, not being a father of like necessarily hugging and kissing and and telling them everything they needed to hear and a mentor. I saw it as I'm gonna give you a life that I wish I had. You know what I mean? But I also realized like they're missing out on probably the most important thing, and the most important thing is is obviously just feeling safe and secure around the family. And time with their dad.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:59

But that, you know, it derives from that military, like you said, that military mindset. We sacrifice so much in the defense. Yeah, you sacrifice six months of training just to get overseas. Yeah, and when I say sacrifice, you sacrifice everything, everything. Time with family, time with anyone. Yeah, you're just with your boys training, get overseas, do your thing. Same thing, you deploy overseas, you sacrifice, you could be sacrificing your life. So we leave defense and we maintain that mindset. That's the way I see it. I I did the same. Yeah. Started my security company, same thing, mate.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:32

Like I grinds in the success because of that. And that's the hard thing. I don't know how to do both.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:40

I didn't know how to do both. Yeah. How do you balance that?

SPEAKER_07 2:26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:42

You know what I mean? I know now, after the facts, but getting there was a completely different story because I only saw the military and went from military to basically joining into a business, and I still had that heavily within me. Yeah. Even so much so when I went to rugby coaching and playing, I remember I was so hard on people at training sessions because that's all I knew. It was the only way to get results from what I saw was you would fucking demand it. You know what I mean? And and if they didn't want to give it, you'd fuck them off because they're toxic for you, or they'd get dragged along whether they liked it or not. And that was the way it was. And that's what I did to go back to where it I felt that where it all came to a bit of a oh shit. I'm playing with elements here that I don't understand, was when yeah, I felt like my relationship could have come to an end because I was pushing too hard.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:36

Yep. So from here, you know, you're at this stage in the last couple of years, you get the offer from this large uh multinational corporation. I guess for you, this is where all those thoughts come into play. Like, fuck.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:50

Did you ever think, yeah, you know what? Nah, fuck that. I might turn this. I might like my my my mindset always sets with me. I'm like, no, fuck that. I'm gonna make it bigger than them.

SPEAKER_08 2:28:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:01

You know what I mean? And then, but then that family other stuff comes in, you're like, fuck, maybe I should just maybe should maybe I should just sell it.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:09

That's exactly what happened. Yeah, exactly. You nailed it, yeah, you nailed it right. I'm fucking in that world. Yeah, that's right, that's right. And that's what happened was okay, how much further can I go to get there? What sacrifice is that gonna mean? Which I've already sacrificed a lot. Then I think to myself, I could get what I've always been chasing, which ultimately was freedom because of money, I could get that in one lump sum and change our lives forever, and then walk away from this and have time with my family, make up for the lost time, but more importantly, show my wife that it wasn't just about the business, it was about us and building something that we can be proud of and have a life together where we can explore life now together without yeah, missing out on the rest of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what it's done. Like, honestly, I'll look at what I missed out on and I don't think I change it for the world because now I still have those connections with my kids. We love each other more than ever before. And don't get me wrong, like I was talking to you about before the podcast started, they're at those teen years where it's really difficult because they don't want you as much. So I feel like I missed out a little bit of that period where they want you all the time. But I feel like I'm also there for the pivotal moments where if they really need me, man, I'm there. You know what I mean? And I don't know if I could have done that if I stayed in the business and kept kept grinding like I was. Where now I know hand on heart, I can take them to school, I can pick them up, I can be there if they need me at the drop of a hat.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:36

Yeah, which like I don't want to talk specifics or money, but when uh you know a a large business comes in from international, yeah, they're offering big It's life-changing.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:49

It's life-changing, yeah, it's life-changing money. It's it's it's the sort of money where you you can drop tools and you can live life now. Yeah, enjoy and and enjoy life where you're which is wild. That's what you've built. Yeah, that's what you built. Yeah, and and it's the sort of money in which you also don't have to change your life in regards to you can still go on holidays, you can still do all those fun things that used to cost money to do, yeah, but without the pressure and the stress and the anxiety that you know, which I really want to touch on the anxiety piece as well. For sure. For sure. When I when I did sell through that period, what people don't realize, we negotiated for nine months straight. It was like intense negotiations, it's a large quantity of money. So you're really in the thick of that intensity of I think I'm worth this, they don't think you're worth that, but you've got to prove you're worth. But you're also running your business in the meantime, and you've got people that they've got problems. You know, I've got staff members that are going through mental health issues and all sorts of things, but you're also going through things, you're also struggling. You're struggling with the balance of losing your family because you've pushed too hard. You're going through the struggles of still trying to manage a business that looks so healthy that it's sellable. You know what I mean? So I was dealing with all of that at once, getting pulled in all directions. And then I just remember towards the end of that nine months, I wasn't sleeping. Like I went days with only an hour sleep, one hour. And I went days and then weeks, and then it just started to become a thing of like, fuck man, am I ever going to be able to sleep again? And it was all anxiety. I didn't even realize it was all the things that you refused to deal with from your past had finally come to the surface and just reminded you of like, oh, you forgot about me, didn't you? And and it's because, and I spoke to a psych about this as well, which I highly recommend people doing if you're going through things like this, not to mention doing your own homework. But all of the stresses that I had throughout my whole life, like I didn't realise I had my first panic attack when I was like eight years old. So I had anxiety in my system forever. You know what I mean? I did a fucking great job at hiding the anxiety from staying super fucking busy and staying super dedicated to things, sports, all these things distracted the shit out of me. Having kids, being in a relationship with my wife, like you were so distracted by all the things happening, your business is going crazy, you don't have time to think about that shit. But then when I realized time was going to slow down, I'm too old to play rugby at the level that I want to play now. I could play masters and stuff, but I'm also one of those people I want to play at the top, you know. So I feel like because all those things had finally slowed down, no more sports, the kids didn't need me as much. The business was about to be sold, I was about to lose my identity there as the boss. All of a sudden, all the things that I'd refused to deal with or thought didn't need to be dealt with were hitting me full frontal. And yeah, I just remember it just got to the point where I just driving, I was scared. Like I just felt these heart palpitations. I was going to emergency like every second day thinking I was having a heart attack. Like they were doing all these tests, and of course, there is no test necessarily for anxiety, you know what I mean? Like you can be presenting with all these anxious things and that create physical sensations, but you go to a doctor and they're just like, no, you're fine, but I'm not fucking fine, mate. I'm struggling, like I'm really, really struggling. So, and they were like, Oh, yeah, but you're ex-military. And I'm like, Yeah, but there's nothing in my service that made me that way. You know what I mean? Like, something's happening here, and all it was was just uh such a high functioning level of stress for such a long time, the straw broke the camel's back. Yeah, and then all of a sudden I started having like intrusive thoughts of like, what happens if I wasn't here anymore? You know, like got that deep. Yeah, it got that deep. Yeah, and and the hilarity of that is people are like, Sean, you've just been given a fucking deal of a lifetime. What the fuck are you talking about? But I can tell you one thing, if you don't have mental health, you don't have anything. And that that was one thing that I really noticed was like I was losing it. Like I felt like I was losing it, you know, because the intrusive thoughts were so strong about like you man, you can just walk, you can just stop this now. You know what I mean? You don't have to feel like this all the time, these sleepless nights and et cetera. But thankfully, I've got amazing people around me, and I really envy people that don't. And I implore anyone who's going through something like this, find your people. There are people out there that will help you, and you need to find them. That's what you've got to do. And I know it's hard because when you're in the thick of it, you feel like there's just nowhere to go. You're you're engulfed by it and you're drowning in it. But there are people there that genuinely love you and care for you. And if you think there aren't, you'll find out pretty quickly if you just admit to how you're feeling. And and I was lucky enough that I just had amazing people around me that just came to the rescue and started having deep conversations with me. And then I started doing all my own research and literally started to go to work on my anxiety and all the stresses, all the things that I haven't dealt with in the past. I just hit it head on. And I can't remember who said it, but they say, you know, when the demons are chasing you in the night, turn around. And that's what I had to do. I just had to turn around and start facing all the shit that I've been running from. So yeah, so and from that, yeah, I can honestly say I'm I'm on the other side of it, you know. But it it took easily 12 months, 12 months of feeling like I just can't do this anymore. Yeah, so pretty crazy. Like, you know, just to see how from what could have been the most happiest moment of my life of what people would perceive is no one knows what you're going through. Yeah, no one actually knows what you're going through. Must have to do that.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:28

You've got a lot to lose because you've you've built a successful business, so you've spent money, you've bought houses, bought cars. Yeah, at the end of the day, it falls through, the business deal falls through, the business fucking collapses, you lose fucking everything. That's the stresses there.

SPEAKER_02 2:35:41

Yeah, that's the stresses.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:42

That's the stresses there.

SPEAKER_02 2:35:43

And and and you would know this better than anyone, it's the what if thoughts. 100%. What if this happens? What if that happens? And the only thoughts I was giving myself was negatives.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:35:52

If this happens, I'm doomed. If this happens, my kids aren't going to have what I hoped for. I'm going to find myself homeless. I'm going to find like all I'm going to be begging for food and going down the aisles of Woolworths again.

SPEAKER_06 2:36:04

Which was never never going to happen. Yeah, never going to be the scenario.

SPEAKER_02 2:36:08

Yeah, never going to happen. But an anxious mind doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. It tries to send you all of the things because it wants you to be aware of them. But problem is if you don't switch that fucker off.

SPEAKER_07 2:36:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:36:18

You know, or more importantly, you can't stop it. But what you can do is you can also, just as bad as you're getting the bad messages, you can replace those messages with, yeah, but Sean, you've been out of this a million times before. Why can't you do it again? So if you start sending those messages, then it starts to change. The narrative changes. All of a sudden, you're back in the driver's seat, not in the passenger seat anymore. And that's what I was doing. I was in the passenger seat, letting anxiety drive. And I was just letting it take me where it wanted to. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, once I started to realize what it was, and finally, it took a GP to turn around and just go, Sean, you got anxiety. And I was like, fuck off, mate. Honestly, I was so pissed off with him. When he told me I had anxiety, I was so pissed off because we were brought up, you know, through the military as well. If you were even having time off for mental health or anything like that, you're a weak cunt. Excuse the language. But you were, you were weak, right? So I I'd never thought of myself as weak. I'm not a weak person. I didn't think of myself like that. But it wasn't weakness, it was just you just had something that you were just not dealing with. There was a faulty alarm system, and you need to deal with that alarm system. And nothing's more brave to me than facing the alarm system that's trying to basically tell you to fuck off and get out of here. You know, so for the first time ever, it was when I started to realise like I do see things through. I don't just run away. Yeah. Like I'm actually running towards now. You know, so out of it, I feel like anxiety taught me some life lessons that for the second half of my life I feel like I'm so much better equipped to deal with everything that comes my way because of the shit I've been through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:37:49

Well, it's the first time you've actually um pushed through something. Yeah, yeah. Military, you fucking just packed up, left. Yeah, now you've got to actually live this and live through it. See it through. See it through and do it, which you did. But it's why? Because a lot of this pressure is put on you by the government.

SPEAKER_03 2:38:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:38:07

ATO, fucking insurances. Yeah, yeah. It's all that pressure. Just mounts. Yeah, yeah. Just mounts, P A Y Gift. G S T.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:15

You think that once you sell your business that's yours, like what you've earned?

SPEAKER_06 2:38:19

No chance. They're taking a chunk. They're taking a thousand. They've already fucking they were reaching in fucking years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:26

And that's what you've got to consider when you're when you're dealing with the negotiation side of things. You have to take all that into account. Because if you actually go over a certain threshold, it's actually not worth the stress because they actually take too much. And then you're actually not earning anywhere near as much. So you've got to find this weird threshold where you're maximizing what you're gonna get, but also paying less tax. Because they're they're just hand in their pocket. So we sold our factories, they take tax. We sell the business, they take tax. But we've been paying tax our whole business life. You know what I mean? But that's not enough. Like they just want every which is the pressure, which is where a lot of the pressure comes from.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:02

That's where all the pressure comes from. And then, like I said, if it fails, guess who comes after you?

SPEAKER_02 2:39:06

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:07

The fucking ATR.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:08

That's right. Even though you've kept 14 people unemployed, like employed full time out of unemployment.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:13

Yep.

unknown 2:39:14

Where's the things?

SPEAKER_02 2:39:14

No, I get it. I fucking get it, mate. Yeah, where's the thanks for that?

SPEAKER_06 2:39:17

But they'll sting you with a bit of payroll tax as well. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:19

Payroll tax, yeah, yeah. Just to add to it. Yeah. So it it is a mess. You know what I mean? And that's why you've just got to be smart. Like you just got to, and that's where it goes back into the investing. If we go full circle, that's where you've got to understand the tax office isn't going to help you maximize your money. You've got to do it yourself. You've got to find a way of like, right, I'm building this money, but there's no point in it sitting here for the tax office to take. You need to find a way to make it work for you.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:42

Invest. Yeah. Invest, make more money, and the taxful tax man will come and take some of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:46

Yeah, and he'll take some of that as well, but it's more. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's how you've got to look at it. All right, I'm still building more than what I would have had.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:52

I think, yeah, you're definitely at a point where it's really good because now you can just sit back and go, fuck you, ATO. Yeah. You know what? I'm not I'm not going to contribute to your bullshit no more. That's right. Yeah. Sit back, relax, go on holidays, drink pina coladas. Yeah. Fuck the ATO.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:05

Yeah. Enjoy life a bit. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 2:40:07

No, good on you. And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to get you on this podcast, not only for your military career, but the business side, because you've you've made it. You've made something of yourself. You and you grind it. You you know, you sacrifice, you did this, you did that, and you come from a pretty rough upbringing, you know, especially with with with that bloke involved. And it's just it I love, I love, I love seeing success stories, blokes leaving the military and gals leaving the military and making businesses and starting things, investing and doing this and doing that. What's the worst that can happen? I think that's one of the things that we look back and I look at and I go, fuck, what's the worst that happened? What's the the absolute worst? I lose everything. Fuck, I'll just go live, you know. Well we'll my wife's living the house. I'll just go get a normal job there.

SPEAKER_02 2:40:56

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And when you think about it, at the time that we got out, you're in your 20s. You can take a risk and recover.

SPEAKER_06 2:41:01

Take a risk.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:01

You know what I mean? You can take a risk and recover. Like, don't get me wrong, you don't go in well over your head. There's calculated risk.

SPEAKER_07 2:41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:08

But there's still an element there of like, mate, you're young enough, you've got tenacity, you've got drive, you can get out of whatever you did yourself into. But do it in a way that whatever you do, and we talked about this before with the podcast, about sinking the ship's mentality. When you get to start a business, you've got to sink all your ships because there's no departing. You're not getting back at the docks and leaving. You're here to stay and you're here to fight.

SPEAKER_07 2:41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:31

And if you have that mentality, you cannot go wrong. I can assure you. Don't get me wrong, you can start to get lazy and complacent. And we all know complacency kills in everything you do. But as long as you don't do that and you stay committed to the pursuit, you will you will do well. And and you know, to anyone listening to this that has come from all of those backgrounds of police defense, you have skills that people spend a lifetime reading books on trying to understand thousands to learn that through money in college and whatever. Yeah, it's within you, and you've just got to unleash the thing because it's in you and those things do work. Yeah. Those things do work, but you've just got to bring your own flavour to it, your own element to it. Because let's face it, there's things about the military I also fucking hated. You know what I mean? Like there were pathetic things that we had to do that to me just didn't make sense. But that's where you bring those strengths with your own strengths, and you could make a superpower out of it.

SPEAKER_06 2:42:24

Yeah, I mate. You fucking live alive, just presto. Just you want to wake up at 5 a.m. and take three hours to get ready, you can do that now.

SPEAKER_02 2:42:31

Yeah, I can. I can. I don't need anyone to dress me. Don't get me wrong, my wife still stares at me and laughs at me when I take my time doing those things. But yeah, ultimately I've got time to actually do it now. I'm not being scolded for it.

SPEAKER_06 2:42:43

Mate, I I yeah, we've I guess we've come up to that final part of the podcast. And uh, you know, I guess you kind of we almost answered that final question or the first question and that final part of the podcast just there. But before we do, mate, again, like just kudos to you for what you've you know, how you've just come out the end of this, and hopefully, someone out there listening it just inspires someone to go, you know what? Fuck it. Yeah, I'm gonna start a pest control business. Yeah, I'm gonna start a candle making business, which I've thought about.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:12

Yeah, I remember. I remember you doing the shirt, pressing, yeah, still doing it, still doing it. Mate, you're an entrepreneur. Still doing it, still doing it. There's no doubt about it. But but even to yourself, mate, like I have to give a shout out to you as well because I think even with this podcast and the things you're branching out to, the supplements, I just think it's amazing to see people just take risks like you have. And and but I mean, even for the podcast, you don't realise the impact it's having. I mean, I've had people reach out to me, and I've reached out to people from these podcasts because it triggers a memory of a time that you some people just want to forget. And for me, it's just made me go, oh no, those times weren't so bad. We were having what makes you yeah, yeah, that's right. We had mateship, we did have that camaraderie, we have those things that you shouldn't turn your back on. And people listening now should reach out to a mate that you haven't for a while. Because there were mates that I reached out to, like Dawsey, for example, right? He went through a lot himself after the military, mental-wise, and so did I, and I had just called him off a whim, and we spoke to each other off a whim, and he had just come out of what I was going through, and he talked me through it all. He was amazing for me, he really was. And Leachy is another one, like these guys were going through things, and no one was speaking about it when they were going through it. And I was probably the first one out of our little group that actually was in the middle of it at the time, and you speak to these guys, and you're just like, oh my god, like I needed these guys, yeah, and I hadn't needed them for however many years or thought I didn't need them for however many years, but just shows that camaraderie and that mateship is something that you can just never take away.

SPEAKER_06 2:44:44

It doesn't matter how long it's been between drinks, it's there and it's built-that's what you relied on in Kapuka. That's right. Standing there so people help you fucking get dressed. 100% same the same fucking scenario. This is what these people do, they kind of help you get dressed for the business world.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:58

Yep, and and that's where that whole brothers by choice comes from. You know what I mean? It's just like these people chose you, you know what I mean? Like they chose you to be in their lives, exactly. You know, like it's not, you know, the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb, they say. And and that's the reason because it's it's built by spilt blood, like you've worked hard together to get to that point, yeah, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:19

Yeah, yeah, BBC, not the other what not the other one.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:22

Yeah, yeah, well, that's true, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:24

Let's not go there, right? Shout out Jeremiah Gilly. Yeah. I like that, yeah, yeah. Uh mate's uh first question, what advice can you give to people just to keep on keeping on, completing any goal they set their mind to, and just to crush it in life? And a couple of business tips. Like, what do you if someone is out there looking to start a business, what do you recommend? Because I you know, my tips get a good accountant, get a good bookkeeper, get a good financial.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:52

That's great advice. I obviously I said the same thing. You know me with numbers, right? I'm not gonna be doing my accounting. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like if I did my accounting, I would have killed us years ago. So yeah, I agree. Yeah, just get a good team around you. I think the biggest thing is mastering the art of showing up. You know what I mean? When things get hard, keep showing up, you know, because I feel like a lot of people like like I was, I put my hand up when I'll be the first to admit when things got tough, I ran. You know what I mean? Like I just didn't want a part of that life. Once I realize that no, the honor is in being there and pushing through the perseverance, that's where you have your wins, you know what I mean? Because it would have been easier to walk away. But when you don't, like when Penner left the business, I stuck it in. I dug my heels in and just went for it, you know. So yeah, I think mastering the art of showing up, I think just recognizing that it is going to be a grind, preparing yourself for it and not giving a fuck either way, just going, yeah, that's what I'm willing to do. I think they're the main things that really stand out to me in that sync the ship mentality. I think is just, you know, once you decide to go for something, whatever it is, a gap in the market, I think trade-based industries can do exceptionally well because a lot of trades, there's a lot of trades, but not a lot of them are doing it well. And if you do it well, little things like sending a quote off first. So you get an opportunity to quote a job, send it first. Be the first to send that quote. You'd be shocked at how many jobs I won because the other teams didn't quote. You know what I mean? Like termite jobs, for example, four or five thousand dollar jobs in a day. And people would accept the quote because they waited two weeks and no one got back to them. But we we got back to them within 24 hours. Yeah. You know what I mean? So they held on to your quote, waiting for someone to call back and no one did, and you got the job. Yep. You know what I mean? So that happened over and over again. So I think for anyone who's in trade-based industries in particular, be first. Get there first, book them in, prioritize them, show that you're prioritizing them, and then send off the quote first, and you'll probably get 90% of those jobs. And you've got to think, if you're doing that over and over again and repeating that process, over time it accumulates.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:54

So that's probably the biggest thing's there.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:55

Yeah, 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:57

And find your tribe. I think that's the thing. Yeah, like and it's not just like your accounting and things like that, it's also your people. You know what I mean? People that inspire you, people that get you up in the morning and make you want to be a better version of you. Like I'm a part of an amazing group of people called the LDB. We made it up during COVID, lockdown beasts, we call ourselves. And honestly, none of us were training, none of us really were committed to our businesses or doing that well in our businesses at the time. Some of them didn't even have one. About a year into doing that group, we had to send in all of our workouts, we had to send in how many books we'd read for the month. We had to do all these things, and all of a sudden, those things manifested into people having successful businesses and being successful as in better family men, better fathers, better than they were 12 months ago. And you've got to think now we've been doing that for six, seven years. It just shows you over time you're you're kicking goals. Yeah, you know what I mean? So definitely meet people, find people that have those similar goals and interests, and they will push you along and pull you when you don't want to be.

SPEAKER_06 2:48:58

And that comes down to uh starting businesses with people as well. Yeah, if you start a business with someone, find someone that is just like you because you're gonna go through business dealing with other people that just don't have that drive or don't have that spark or you know that just fucking tenacity to get shit done or make things happen or get contracts and go door knocking. Yeah. So yeah, one advice from me, find someone because I haven't found that person yet.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:26

It's so hard to find. It's hard to find the same person.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:29

And do you know what the beauty of that is though? It reminds you of how rare you are.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:32

100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:32

You know what I mean? Because if if it was easy, every fucker would do it. You know what I mean? But they're not. And that and that's something where you can hang your hand on a little bit of like, oh, okay. I was willing to push through shit that some people weren't.

SPEAKER_07 2:49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:42

You know what I mean? And once again, what I love about that is when I reflect, I wasn't that guy always. It took time to build that person, you know what I mean? So for those people who want that advice, is just build build who you are, your credentials, and what you're capable of. Because you've got strengths. We've all got strengths. Like we know, Mortars wasn't mine. So once you find your strengths, though, you know, build on that. Because those things that your weakness is in won't matter when your super strengths become superpowers and you can start building off that. Mate, you're unstoppable. You really are. I mean, I can tell you right now, Elon Musk is fucking shit at sport, but he didn't have to be good at it. You know what I mean? So there's things in you right now that you're fucking good at. Focus on that, build on that, build your repertoire, be a better father, be a better husband, be a better role model to people, but equally educate yourself so that when you do go into the market, people see something about you of like, this guy's got an edge. And if you've come from those backgrounds, police, army, navy, air force, all of these things, you've already got an edge. You know what I mean? Build on that edge. Because yeah, I think you can go exceptionally far with it.

SPEAKER_06 2:50:48

Those, just quickly, those super successful people like Elon Musk. One thing I've noticed with them, they they they sacrifice everything. Yeah, they live and breathe their businesses like Elon has his own room inside of East Office. Uh Dana White, same thing. They pretty much just live and breathe. Mr. Beast, same thing. Has his one thing. One person here in Australia, um, the blue wiggle, Anthony Wiggle. When we went to do the podcast with him, he's got a room that he pretty much lived in when he was, you know, when the wiggles was getting off because that's just dedicated to their cause. They're just dedicated to their cause, which again it's the sacrifice of family. So yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the trade-off.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:33

Yeah, that is the hard thing. Don't get me wrong, you can find a way, it just takes wisdom, you know. And for me, it took 13 years of running a business before I started to recognise it. You know what I mean? Or 12, 12 years in. So I do think that's another part of you that you need to figure out. Yeah. But you need to figure that out on the move because if you stop moving, you lose that momentum. You lose the momentum, you start to lose what made you so good.

SPEAKER_07 2:51:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:57

So yeah, and and like any business, you know, once it becomes stagnant, it's time to start moving it on because yeah, that's what that's where you lose your edge.

SPEAKER_06 2:52:05

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mates out said question, what scares you the most in life? What are you most afraid of?

SPEAKER_02 2:52:11

I think even, you know, even when I mentioned before about my family losing my family, it brought a little moment where I was like, shit, that hits hard. That's it. I think that's what it is. Just just living a life without my family just scares the shit out of me. Whether that be from something as simple as, you know, divorce or just not being here from health concerns, health reasons, or whatever, just a you die suddenly, for example, that scares me just because the fact like I just want to be in their lives. Yeah, I just want to be in their lives because I feel like even though my kids are at that point where they show they don't really need me right now, I know one day they will, and I feel like I am a good mentor in that respect, and I want to be that person for them. You know what I mean? So so not being able to be that person would be a fear of mine for sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:52:54

Yeah, yeah, cool. Uh, third question, tell us something about you that people don't know. Guilty obsession.

SPEAKER_02 2:52:59

No, what do you um what do you do? Gaming. Like I love gaming at the moment, to be honest. Like Call of Duty, oh fuck, man. I love that shit. It's the most toxic thing in the world.

SPEAKER_08 2:53:10

What are you playing?

SPEAKER_02 2:53:11

Warzone, so I play like you know, Resurgence. Resurgence as well. I get amongst it, man. Every day? Yeah, every day. Oh every day.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:18

PlayStation?

SPEAKER_02 2:53:19

Play. Oh no, I've got a PC now because I take it more seriously, you know. I really have up to my game.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:23

You might have to step it up.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:24

Yeah, and if you're one of these pricks that's cheating, by the way, don't bump into me in a dark alley. I don't like you one bit, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:53:31

He'll roundhouse kick you.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:32

Yeah, that's right. Be a man and lose a gunfight and learn from it. You know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:38

So I play every night. Do you?

SPEAKER_02 2:53:40

Pretty much all.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:42

Yeah, one or two hours easily. Easily start to work.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:44

Because I can tell you right now, like, yeah, I once that's my separation from all the bullshit. Me too. You know what I mean? Like, I just get that moment where I'm just like, I'm not thinking about anything else right now where normally I can't stop thinking about work. I can't stop thinking about my family, the stresses of what's next and things like that. But gaming, I switch off completely.

SPEAKER_07 2:54:04

Yeah, you just get sweaty. Yeah, sweaty.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:07

GG's.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:10

Um, movie, TV show. What are you? You gotta piss again. I know, I'm pretty sure. Sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:20

I'm actually impressed with how long I've been.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:22

All right, uh Betty White's back from a toilet break. That's right, that's right. Um favorite TV movie show. Uh movie show. Favorite movie TV show. What do you what's your go-to?

SPEAKER_02 2:54:36

I do love saving private Ryan. I just think that's the ultimate. It is the ultimate.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:41

Which character are you in there?

SPEAKER_03 2:54:45

That's a good question, actually. Which character? Fuck, I don't know. Are there any real Larrakins in there?

SPEAKER_06 2:54:53

Nah, there's not. They're all too serious.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:54

They're all very, yeah, they're all green.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:57

Yeah, a bit too serious. Yeah, see, probably none of them.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:59

Yeah, yeah. No, there's got to be something else out there. But yeah, no, I love movies like that. To be honest, I like movies that inspire. Like if there's something that like I'm a crier. I honestly am. If I watch a movie and it hits me in the feels, like, man, I'll tear up. Like my my kids laugh at me. You know what I mean? Because I can watch a movie. They'll walk out into the lounge room and they'll see me tearing up. Uh here's another one for you, Rocky.

SPEAKER_07 2:55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:21

Like the Rockies. And I sit there and I'll watch those Rockies, man. I get so intensely into them, you know, like because it's that guy that started with all the reasons why he wouldn't make it, shouldn't make it, but find to wait. You know what I mean? Like those sort of movies really hit me. Yeah. So movies like that. Goodwill hunting's another one.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:40

Yeah. I love that movie. Yeah, a bit soft.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:42

Yeah, a bit soft, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:43

It's because once again, it's that whole, like, you know, you go back into childhood trauma and those sort of things and how much it can have an impact on you. You know what I mean? But it's still a choice. You know what I mean? Like if you allow these things to live rent-free in your mind, you know, really they're still winning. Those people are still winning.

SPEAKER_07 2:55:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:58

That's how I say it. And that's how I I've going further into my life now, I've realized that really the only thing that was stopping me and making me quit when things got hard, yeah, was because I was allowing the old Sean to still dictate how I think and feel. Yeah. You know what I mean? Where now a more complete version of that doesn't think about that anymore. I just think like, nah, I know what I'm capable of. I know what I can do. I just gotta back myself. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's it.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:26

Don't be pushover.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:27

That's right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:28

You know what you're capable of. Yeah, mate. Well, I've already booked the flight to Perth anyway, so yeah, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:33

I'll cook that one off. We're gonna go cooking.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:36

Yeah, that's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:38

We're big boys now.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:39

Yeah, well that's right, yeah, well, that's right. Yeah, that's right. It's true, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 2:56:43

Mate's uh music. What's your what's your go-to?

SPEAKER_02 2:56:46

Music, I love I love rap, to be honest.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:48

Yeah, I know. Well we're just driving around before and you had a bit of the old kitchen. Old school Eminem, though.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:53

Yeah, I like Eminem, yeah. Eminem.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:55

Late 90s, early 2000s Eminem.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:56

Yeah, because you know why he's he's pissed off.

SPEAKER_06 2:57:00

He is he's pissed off. Some of his lyrics are pretty that Stan song, uh I can hear that a fair bit because I put the internet radio on my computer when I'm when I'm in the office, and Stan always comes on and I listen to the lyrics. I'm like, fuck, that's deep.

SPEAKER_02 2:57:14

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of a lot of those things, you know, that I remember him talking about his stepfather and some of the songs and things like that. And and those things were ways and escape. They were things for me where like when I was listening to those words and those lyrics, it felt like rather than me acting upon it, it was coming out in words, you know what I mean? And and that that's what it teaches you over time is like words can set you free. You know what I mean? You just gotta find a way to kind of settle the beast within, you know, a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:57:38

And and that's something that takes, I think, a lot of time and good people around you to work out, you know.

SPEAKER_06 2:57:43

Yeah. Final question, mate. There's I don't normally ask this one, but uh I Probably should. What what is the plans for the future? Because now, like I said, you're you know you're financially stable, you you've got time to relax now. You don't have to rush back into the workspace, but I'm sure you're gonna get bored because you've spent the last you know 13 plus years building a business, being predominantly active 24-7, you know. Um as much as I'm I'm the same, uh as much as I'd like to just relax. I I don't think I can switch it just now. Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? You've got to always just maintain something small or what what what's the plan?

SPEAKER_02 2:58:19

Yeah, I guess at the moment I'm I've got back involved with Perth Roofing, which was another company that I was involved with that had shares in prior to you know everything finishing up with GPC as well. So I'm just in kind of a business manager role there. So that that's been great for me in regards. I'm super appreciative to those guys being keen to have me back on board because that's just kind of keeping me slightly busy where I'm just you know helping out systems and procedures there, making that place just work more efficiently and become more successful as well. And that's been good, but I agree with you. I I need a project. And and I remember even Burjo, he reached out to me and we spoke to each other after his podcast, and he was saying, mate, you've got yourself to a point in business where whatever you do next, make sure you enjoy it. You know, and and it's true, like I really want to enjoy it. And that's why I love helping people, and I've really thought of going down the track of life coaching, like something to do with mentorship, something to do with that, because I've been that lost guy. I've been that kid that hasn't had people around them that could have just, you know, given them a shoulder to lean on. You know what I mean? Like I I really feel like I want to lean into that, and and I don't think I've always had the tools to do that. I don't think I was always ready for that, but I feel like I'm at a point in my life now where I've got the tools, I've got the understanding of what people need and and how to get yourself out of the shit when you when you feel like you you just can't. So yeah, so I feel like something along those lines, health, fitness, and and mentorship, something like that, I definitely think that there's something on the right.

SPEAKER_06 2:59:43

Yeah, for sure, mate. Well, you got the resume for it. Yeah, yeah. Especially the business side as well, you know. That's one of the biggest things. It's really hard starting a business and not knowing exactly because I know like you said, like when I first started a business, I didn't even know how to send a fucking invoice. Yeah, mate. Yeah, it's P A Y G, what the fuck's that? I don't even know how, I didn't know. Like, I look back now, I wish I did got an accountant in sooner, gotten a bookkeeper in sooner, because the amount of money you waste, not knowing that you're wasting it, until a professional comes in and goes, what the fuck are you doing?

SPEAKER_08 3:00:09

But imagine if you didn't just jump.

SPEAKER_06 3:00:11

Yeah, I know, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 3:00:12

And that's what you're doing. Yeah, and and that's what I tell anyone who starts with talking to me about business, and they're in those infancy stages and they're not sure, you know, do I keep pushing, do I not? I'm just like, man, you haven't dived in yet. Like you you're dipping your toes in the fucking water. Yeah, you've got to dive in head first, and then once you've done that, you committed. You know what I mean? But so many people I see they've got that ship parked up at the docks, and they're thinking, if this fails, I'll go do that. Well, you've got to have the mentality, if this fails, I'm fucked.

SPEAKER_07 3:00:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:42

And if you have that mentality, you're gonna go do things. You know what I mean? Because there is no choice. Yeah, you've got no choice but to succeed. Where when you've got a choice to succeed or take it easy, easy is the most readily available thing you've got. You're gonna choose easy every time. But that doesn't mean you're gonna get results. No different to being in the gym. You know, you can show up to the gym, but that doesn't mean that you're doing things that are gonna get you anywhere, you know what I mean? And that's that's that's where it's the effort is earned. You know, like you have to earn that. Yeah, and the only way to do it is head first.

SPEAKER_06 3:01:13

Yeah, yeah. Exactly, mate. Uh for whatever reason people want to reach out to you. How can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 3:01:19

I'm on socials, like I do have breaks from socials every now and then because I just do find, especially in what's going on at the moment with things, like even the Ben Roberts Smith stuff and like all those things really it it ekes, it irks. Of course. It pisses you, you know, because it's stupid and it's just like, where's the support for these people? You know what I mean? Like these people, we train them up. I'm sorry to go into this, but I'll just hit this. Oh, for sure. But like it just hits me how there's these people that you've trained to be a certain way, you know what I mean? Like whether it be bully mentality or fucking, you know, bullet a gate type mentality, you've trained that, you've built that, then you're condemning that. I know there's a real fucking problem with that, you know. So for me personally, I to answer your question, social media is probably the best way to do it. Um that would be the uh the main way to contact me. Obviously, if for the people that are closest to me, they've already got my mobile number and stuff anyway. If there's super, super close people to me, they can reach out to me, you know, there's no doubt about it. I'll I'll answer any message and love to chat with anyone who needs it, including people that don't even know me. If you feel like you need a bit of mentorship or someone to just, you know, be on your side and just yeah, carry the weight with you every now and then. I I love that side of things, you know, I really do. And I feel like being at the point of life I'm in now, I if there's any time I can help, it's now. Yeah you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:36

So if you want any advice and get that new stuff, new little business, get it, get it cranking. At least start on Instagram and just get the get register an ABN and get the wheels moving.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:47

It's kind of that thing though, Maddie, of like you know, you know, when you've felt the grind and you're a bit scared of like, do I want to sacrifice again and go that deep? That's on my mind as well.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:57

Well, you don't have to this time because you can control it this time. Control it. You can just go, you know what, fuck it, I'll only take five clients on. That's it. I'm stopping there. Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_08 3:03:04

Five and that's it. True is the good way to put it.

SPEAKER_06 3:03:06

You had to grind with the pest control, you had to take as many. Yeah, now you can just go, nah, fuck it. It's five clients only.

SPEAKER_02 3:03:13

Yeah, yeah. No, it makes sense. It does make sense, yeah. Because I get a bit worried that that kind of McGregor thing's kicking in. You know how like before you get the riches, you're fighting like the fuck to get there. Then when you get there and he's got all these riches now, he doesn't want to fight. Yeah, you know what I mean? And if he does fight, it's just like, yeah, maybe. Yeah, you know what I mean? So it kind of takes that edge away from you a little bit. But I do feel like when I think about it, I only walked away from the business a few months ago. You know what I mean? So I feel like that's what it is. It's more of like there's a hangover period that I just need to calm down, relax, enjoy life a bit, and then when I'm ready, yeah, I'll be I'll hit the ground with it.

SPEAKER_06 3:03:46

I always get the Conor McGregor in my head as well. Yeah, yeah, it's especially when he goes, shut the fuck off. Shut the fuck off. When I'm thinking about something, what the fuck is that?

SPEAKER_03 3:03:56

Yeah, that's right. I know that was a shit version of it, but you get it.

SPEAKER_06 3:03:59

I hear it all the time when I'm when I'm like whinging about something. Yeah, Connor McGregor. Yeah, yeah. Short the fuck off. What the fuck is that? He is he's in our heads, don't worry about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, Nat, awesome. We'll uh you know, stay stay tuned, I guess, for the listener when if uh Sean starts his uh little side hustle.

SPEAKER_03 3:04:18

Yep, yeah, I'll keep you posted.

SPEAKER_06 3:04:20

Yeah, he might uh help you make millions, yeah. Squillions, billions. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:26

That'll be good, mate. I I love it, I do love helping people with that side of things as well because yeah, I I realise there are people out there that have got super strengths that they really could lean into. They're just probably like I was when I needed Penner at the time, they just need that one person to just go, mate, you can do this. Yeah, yeah, I believe in you. You know, like let's go. Yeah, let's do this. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 3:04:45

And obviously Penner's become fucking successful. He's got his for the people listeners out there, I'll have to find out what this motel is. But he's bought a one of those motel places and got a whole bunch of rooms. So if you need rooms, do you know where it is?

SPEAKER_02 3:04:57

Oh God, no, and he's gonna kill me for this because we were literally talking to each other just the other week about it. But yeah, I can't remember. It's on the river. I know it's on the river, it's a great spot. Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to find out where it is. Hang on, hang on, hang on. But yeah, but uh it's true. Like, I mean, he like Leachie is another person I'll mention, you know what I mean? He's living a great life now as well, you know. And and he was another soldier that used to get in the shit all the time, you know what I mean? Like he used to get in trouble, get in fights and all sorts of things, but he's come out the other side of that and done really well, you know.

SPEAKER_06 3:05:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:05:35

Fucking I guess it's all the time.

SPEAKER_01 3:05:39

Yeah, even um Maddie Delaroff spoke to the other week, and oh you call me washing linen, probably like a call is being forwarded into voicemail. The person you're trying to reach is not available at the time. Please record your message. When you have finished recording, you may hang up.

SPEAKER_06 3:06:09

Steve, uh, do you remember that time in Afghan? That monkey. We were patrolling that monkey. We've got video of it. It sat on your leg and then just started humping it. Yeah, anyway, you can't you can't reply. Hey Steve, sorry, we're just live on a potty now. I'm just with Presto and we're just talking about uh your new motel venture. We just wanted to figure out where it was so we could shout it out. And maybe there's a listener out there that needs some accommodation, but but you just missed the boat, mate.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:35

You missed the boat, so it's over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:06:38

Stay stay at the Intercontinental Hotel instead.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:41

Yeah, that's right. Bring me a drink, Long Island Iced Tea.

SPEAKER_06 3:06:44

Thanks. He'll call back and go, what the fuck's going on there? Uh yeah, no, I guess that's the end of the podcast then.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:51

Yeah, no, I appreciate it, mate. I really appreciate you getting me on. Once again, I don't I don't know if I was interesting enough to have on, but it just shows, like, yeah, you know, we've all we've all got a story, we've all got sides of things that have happened in our lives. And yeah, for for me to hopefully inspire someone on the other side of their military career as well is just yeah, it's true. Because I mean, if you knew me, and I hope the podcast has kind of really solidified here is that I wasn't someone that was destined to do great things when I left the military, you know what I mean? No, I I didn't have all my ducks aligned. Uh there were lots of things I still had struggles with, but I found a strength, I found something that I was good at, and I went for it. And I feel like yeah, anyone else out there can do the same.

SPEAKER_06 3:07:32

Yeah, yeah, mate. It's um again, it's the reason why I do the podcast is you not only to share stories from guys from their service, cop service, ambo service, fiery service, whatever, SES, etc., but it's also there to show that anyone else can do it. Anyone else can do it, anyone else can get through it. There's a life outside and there's a life outside of those four walls of the defense or whatever you're in. So you don't have to work at Fantastic Furniture for the rest of your life. You can start a pest control business because you just bumped into some dude with a fucking three-seater lounge.

SPEAKER_02 3:08:05

And trust me, life is sending you these things, they're sending you these messages. Are you paying attention? Shout out to that play.

SPEAKER_06 3:08:10

You should buy him a fucking counter.

SPEAKER_02 3:08:11

You need to buy a mistake. And he started a business too. You know, he ended up yeah, he started a business as well. I mean, I think it only lasts for around about 12 odd months, but once again, it was because he didn't have the same level of like commitment as I was gonna have. You know, I was gonna go for it no matter what. That's the biggest thing. That's the biggest thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:08:28

Worst case scenario, you can just fucking fold it in and you know, if you got no money, then I don't know, stay at your mate's house. Yeah, yeah. That'd be my worst case scenario. Absolute worst cut worst case scenario. Yeah, you know, I lose everything, divorce, family, everything. Fuck man, I'll hey presto. Yeah, but I just need somewhere to crash through.

SPEAKER_02 3:08:45

Yeah, you'll find a way. And then yeah, you do have those people around.

SPEAKER_06 3:08:47

There's you've got your inner sanctum of boys where you can just go, bro. Like, I'm I'm on my fucking last legs. I need somewhere to crash for two months just so I can get a job and get back on my feet, let me know. Yeah, that's right. There's there's probably 10 blokes I could call. Yeah. And they'd take me straight away. Easily.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:02

Well, especially even with this now that you've got the exposure to all this, you're gonna find more like-minded people than ever before. You know what I mean? And and I think that's where a lot of people do suffer on the outside of the military side of things is that finding your identity again. You know what I mean? Who are you without the the green jelly bean suit? Yeah, I I know they don't wear the same colours anymore, but it just shows you that yeah, you can really become institutionalized in whatever you do. You know what I mean? Like if you only see yourself as one thing, you'll only be that one thing. So invite yourself to look inwards and go, who else am I without this? Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? And and the answer is a lot.

SPEAKER_07 3:09:37

Yeah. Yeah. No, easy, mate. All right. Awesome brother.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:40

Appreciate you, brother. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_07 3:09:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:43

Bye.