Ep. 260 Stephanie Bochorsky WA Police - Australian Army Reserves

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It's time for the Zero Limits Podcast, hosted by Australian veterans. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world, we'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the kick to complete any goal you set your mind to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Zero Limits Listeners on today's Zero Podcast. Join in the Zero Limits Listeners. We've done about five cuts already. Anyway, I'm going to keep carrying on. Zero Limits Listeners. Uh inner mobile studio here in Perth. Now, recording a couple of per uh podcasts out here at the moment. On today's one, I've caught up with a 16-year veteran of the Western Australian Police Force. Pretty extensive career within the force itself, uh, doing multiple roles and doing multiple things, which we'll definitely talk about. However, she was involved in an incident in 2015. That's I it's just it's absol pure evil, pure disgusting. And it, you know, I I I guess we're going through this cli political climate around the world right now where the Lindsay Clancy thing, this is something very similar. This man, a bloke, set his two daughters on fire. And um Stephanie was off duty one night and uh you know ran to the ran to uh assist with these kids, but I'll let her tell a story later because it's just I know I'm gonna get pissed off, and I'm probably gonna go try and find this prison and find this guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

You couldn't be the first.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

It's just yeah, it's it's just wild. But uh Stephanie uh Bachowski, how are you doing? I said alright, but Bachowski.

SPEAKER_05 3:47

You did well done.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Got it. How are you?

SPEAKER_05 3:49

Yeah, good. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

No, I appreciate you coming in to the mobile studio. We've got the we've got the AFL Grand Final on right now, so it's half time.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

I'm trying not to watch, but at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

So we're gonna be watching this, we're gonna be watching this. But uh yeah, no, I appreciate you wanting to come and share your story because again, not only did you spend a you know a pretty extensive career within the uh Western Australia Police Force, you know, you were involved with this incident that again this the political climate right now seems to be surrounding this this issue. And you know, there was a uh a lady just in in Australia not recently just got let off, or not let off, but under the Mender Health Act. I'm like, Yeah, where where's this going?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

I know, and I just can't help but feel like uh especially in like today's society, there's so much talk about mental health and there's lots of awareness in there, especially on social media and that, but it almost feels like it's not getting any better. No. And you've got to ask the question as why? Yeah. Especially when you got so much information out there, you'd think that there's so much awareness around it, but essentially it's not getting any better because of too much information, I feel.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah, and and I think we're starting to use mental health as an an excuse.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

You know?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah, well, it's it's even like the word um narcissism, that's thrown around how much you see that on on social media, like narcissism. And you know, to be clinically diagnosed with narcissism, it's actually one in every hundred people. So the fact that that's thrown around so much, yeah. Um yeah, astounds me.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Yeah, it's it's mad it's to like everyone uh this is completely off subject here, but like people when the people go, Oh, I'm gluten, I'm gluten insensitive. It's like relax, mate. You're not, you don't even know what it is. Anyway, it's got nothing to do with anything. That's it. Uh, you know, before we crack on with your full career within the police force, the incident, and you know, the you've got multiple other incidents. I'll just imagine I'm staying here in Northbridge, it is the most junkiest place on this planet. I walked to the gym this morning and I dead set thought I was walking through Somalia. Yeah, there was blood everywhere, there was fight, there was domestics going on. I was like, holy shit, what have I done? But unfortunately, this this apartment is so good for the acoustics and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Anyway, you're in the middle of the north bridge where the shit happens.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Another one of my side stories. Now let's get back to your younger days uh growing up. Where did you grow up? And obviously, you this last name, it's definitely not Australian.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, no, no, it's not. Um, yeah, so I'm the youngest of of three. I've got a uh brother and a sister, older sister and brother. My mum's uh well, my mum was Australian and my dad's Ukrainian, so that's where the Bachowski comes from. So the only Bachowski in all of Australia. Yeah, yeah. That's probably why I haven't changed my surname because I feel like it's too much a part of my identity as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yeah. What when do they come from the Ukraine?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Sorry?

SPEAKER_03 6:59

When do they come from when did your dad come from the Ukraine?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Oh, so my poppy and nana immigrated over. Yep. And um oh god, I yeah, I can't tell you. Yeah, and from and here's a fun fact as well. Like my poppy, he was a bootmaker for Hitler's top men. Oh yeah, apparently. My Nana was an opera singer as well, so there you go. Some handy little information.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Still making boots?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Oh no, he's not no, and unless he's in the grave, so not he's not around anymore.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Not fair.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

No, that but um, yeah, no, my dad um he didn't speak Ukrainian. Yep. And um God, what's my old man getting on now? He's uh in his 70s now, so um, yeah, no, it's it's too I tried learning the language when I was younger with my manner, but or my poppy, and it was just it's too hard of a language to learn. It's too it's got like yeah, it's it's like a mix of everything, isn't it? Yeah. Like Russian and that's a touchy subject, but it is it is a bit of Polish and a bit of other things in there too. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Interesting. Where'd you grow up?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Uh so I grew up in uh little suburb called Craigie. So I grew up in Craigie and That's out this way, is it? Yeah, it's northern suburbs. Yeah, so I went to Craigie primary school there, and then um yeah, then I got into uh music near seven, eight, what is it, before we transition over to high school, and then I got into Woodvell High School in the music programme. Don't ask me what instrument I played.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Recorder. Oh, flute. It's the Yaz flute. Yeah, what uh family uh brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, yeah. So um older sister and my brother's the middle child. So yep.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Okay, cool. And uh, you know, schooling, you know, I think with a lot of my guests that have had on, where everyone seems to have that same schooling. Yeah, not so sm I wouldn't say not so smart, just never applied ourselves. And this is the reason why a lot of the people end up in the military or the all the cops or yeah, no, I yeah, I guess I was pretty much the same.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Like I was so focused on just having fun. And um, because I was so have on concentrated on having fun, I applied myself on sports and stuff like that. I guess that's why I was so good at my um because I played footy when I was um in high school, as captain of the footy team. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. I was waiting for that. So yeah, I did that and um played uh competitive netball. Um and also I guess when I got into high school, um it's gonna sound it sounds funny now that I say it out loud, but back then, obviously, when you're a young girl going through adolescence, um some boy thought it was funny because um of my husky voice. They thought it would be funny to start a rumour that I was born a boy. So, yeah. So they started a rumour that I was born a boy, and it just caught on that every time I'd walk into the classroom or every time I walked past a group of guys, they would just yell out, man, like this. And um at the time I thought it was just gonna slide and it just it it wouldn't phase me, but it just kept happening, kept happening, kept happening, kept happening, and um yeah, then it just really started to wear on um on me, on my self-confidence, on um applying myself um in the classroom and and trying to get ahead, I guess. And it wasn't until year 12 that that's when my mum first got diagnosed with um breast cancer. Yeah. So not only am I trying to navigate um school, I'm trying to navigate the fear of potentially losing my mother. Um so nowhere felt safe, and I didn't know where I was as a person, and you know what I mean? Like I'm trying to discover where I'm going outside of high school, and I felt like these challenges and these obstacles and me getting teased by being called a man, and oh and also apparently I was dating a guy called Timmo as well. Um so that's so it's fucking hilarious now, yeah. Yeah, um, because I can look back and and laugh about it, but at the time it was I get it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

But I don't get it from you know, as a boy sense, but you know, I've got daughters, yeah. And I I really think that obviously girls grow up a lot different, way, way different from boys. Boys don't give a shit about anything. Yeah, you know what I mean? Whereas girls, you know, I know my girls, my 19 and 17-year-old, they're very hypersensitive to the world, and that's just women in general.

SPEAKER_05 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

So this is are you are you having trouble finding friends or anything? Or is your is your brother standing up and putting some tissue chins or anything?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

No, no, my brother's not like that, no. Yeah, um, no, it it definitely because of my dad, um, if I come home complaining about it, it it just always can be the tough love. Um, and you know, this the uh the same old saying would go, um, sticks and stones. So yeah, my mum and dad were were big on that. And there was a couple of occasions there where I discussed changing schools and they said that's just it's not gonna happen. Like, no. Um, so yeah, I had I did have a group of girlfriends, um, and it just didn't have any boy friends through school. It wasn't until I hit year 12 I got um a couple guy friends, but um throughout the majority of high school it was mainly just the girl group that I tend to stuff to stick with. And I think I think because I I took I I stood up to myself a couple of times, and there was just once instance, this was actually after educ um outdoor education, we just did a kickboxing class, and I were walking and walking to our next class, and two guys behind me were you know the whole man thing. And I said to myself in my head, if I hear him say it again, I'm gonna lash out at him. And he said it again. I turned around and I punched him in the face, and he was you know, shocked. And his mates all went quiet, and I thought to myself, oh good, it's gonna stop now. Like, see, she is a man, she can fight. I'm like, fuck, I've just made it a whole lot worse. Yeah. Here I'm thinking I potentially shut him up for good, and I just made it worse.

unknown 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Oh, I was um I was I wasn't saying I was bullied in school, but I was always in fights. Most boys are and I was so skinny too. Like so skinny. People used to call me like toothpick and all this stuff, and I had a bowl haircut, and it was mum's fault. Oh shit. But uh again, boys are different. Yeah, just different because you know we just fought and didn't care. And again, sticks and stones are like whatever. I'm like that now, really. Yeah, too.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, I'm like that now. I just tend to go the other way now.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I've got a car, I can jump in my car and fuck off.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Yeah, I'll clip you in the face and then I'll drive away. Yeah. That's what I normally do. But anyway, uh so you said that your mum was uh crook as well with uh with cancer. Like was that was that a a a progressive thing? Like was that really fast? Because she did pass away uh was it that same same year, year 12?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

No, she passed away the day um I sat the police exam. So God sure that's a couple years later. So I can get to that in a bit later on, but um yeah, no, she when I was 17, she got first diagnosed with breast cancer. Yep. And um going through the whole chemotherapy um route, and then she had the ol clear for I think it was five years before it progressed into her bones and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Yeah, right. Um well before we crack onto that part of the the potty, where where's the the policing come in? Have you got any family history within police or obviously your granddad was making boots for Hitler?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Didn't know that at that time, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

Um well family history, but also pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

The wrong side of history. Um but no, no, no one was in the um the police force uh per se. My dad was a um a firefighter. So he yeah, he was a firefighter, mum was a patient care attendant. Um so I guess I came from my parents serving the community in one sense, in I guess in some sense you could you could say. Um I think when I was in primary school, I can't remember what what grade this happened, but there was a um a copper that ended up coming and doing a presentation and talking about the police force, and that's I guess where the idea came from. I was like, that's something I could potentially see myself doing because uh I was a kid that couldn't sit still, um, always on the move, always on the go. I guess that's why it explains my ADHD diagnosis that I've just received recently. So I guess that definitely explains some things. And um so I always said to my mum and dad that you know, once I leave school, if it's not the police, it's gonna be the army. So it was always gonna be either army or police. I just felt drawn to um serving either your country or your state and doing something and something that's gonna be different every day. That's kind of how it got sold to me.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Yep, yep. So you leave school, what year did you leave school? What are you how old are you in? 86. Now you're telling me. Halley's Comet 1986, by the way. Halley's Comet. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Oh, there you go. Um facts. Yeah, yeah, we're full of fun facts today already. Um 2004? 2000.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

2004, 2004? You would have been 2003.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Because my brother's 1986 as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Here you go. So you're yeah, don't ask me about maths.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Um I'm approaches. 2003, you leave school. Any like I know you want to talk about you join the cops and all the military, but you spend a couple of years obviously outside getting in a real job.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah. Um trying to. Yeah, trying to. Yeah. Um I started um, yeah, because then I graduated from high school and that's when I just started working at a barista out of um back when it's called Gloria Jeans. Oh yeah. Doing that. I think um I decided to do that at that time because my mum was still sick, like in and out of sickness at that time. So I wasn't really um looking forward um to join the police or the military at that stage because I was still, I guess, in limbo, wondering what was happening with my mum. Um, so that's why I just stuck to um doing full-time uh work as a barista first, just to wait and see how that was gonna pan out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

And how was that panning out?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Oh my god. Yeah, but you know what? Looking back now, I wish I stayed as a barista or actually went to the army first. Like that that would have been, yeah. Considering how things have panned out now, or yeah, gone to uni, it's probably what I should have done. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, mature age student now doing university. Fucking yeah, midlife crisis. I should have borne psychology. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, midlife crisis. People usually I should have got Botox instead of going to uni, you know. Or sports car, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Yeah, geez, how far are you in?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Um I'm three years in now. Oh shit. Yep. I got one more year to go before I get my bachelor, but need to get the good grades in order to get into honours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the hopes is to do a year or two honours to get into forensic psychology. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Yep. Oh shit. Yeah, we'll see. I guess your husband's gonna cop it.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, he cops, he cops, he cops it all now. I don't know why he's still with me. Honestly, I tell him this every day. It was in my vows and I tell him every day, I don't know why you're with me. I'm fucking not joined.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Uh like you said, where where when do you start the process to join the cops?

SPEAKER_01 20:44

I think I first applied was when I was 19. And I got rejected.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Oh, did you?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah. I I got in on my third go.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, um, they never tell you. They don't no, they don't tell you. Um so they yeah, they rejected me and they just they just sent you a letter just to say you've been un unsuccessful and you can reapply, and it's usually back then it was six months, twelve months, two years. There's usually a a limit. And I had a feeling it was probably life experience, maybe. So I applied again, didn't get um that's when I was in my when I was 20, I think. And then 21, that's when my mum got sick, and I applied again. And the day that she sat that I sat the police exam, that's when she passed away. Oh shit. And that's when and then they said um come back in three months. And I did, and then that's when I got through.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Yeah, right. So you pass you sat the exam. Your mum passes away and that morning, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Then the police give you obviously they're like Yeah, three month they said three months and then come back, do it again, which I did, and then I got in.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah, right. Far around.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

So you know, that would have been um, you know, I guess a tough period because you're trying to establish who you are, and then obviously your your mum's sickness and throwing, you know, it's absolute spanner in the works, obviously losing your mum, like well I just I applied myself and I tried to put it out of my mind that day because I essentially thought that's what she that's what she would want for me. Of course, yeah. Um she she would have kno uh known and I think she said it to me s several times, like um don't let that stop you from doing what you want to do. Um exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Mums get it, mum's get it, life goes on, yeah. Um so three months later you're back, you do the test again, you pass, then you're offered a position at the Academy. How's that? Like, how's that for you mentally?

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Oh god, the Academy. Fuck. Um, you know what? It's uh it was actually not too bad. Academy wasn't too bad. Um it's all fun and games, and yeah, a couple of um funny individuals. Um actually one of them, um when you go through the police academy, you have uh someone who's like a section section leader who gets selected. Like so you got your um your squad. Um, I can't remember how many of us saw there were, but then there's one individual gets selected, and they're the go-between person between the the lecturers and the um the academy staff to pass on information, you know, like pass on information at 15 minutes we got parade, or 15 minutes you got you got break, you know, things like that. So this 2015 incident that we're gonna get to, um one of the detectives that was at that scene was actually in my squad. Oh, was he? Yeah, right. Yeah. And I remember him at the time when um we were on the parade ground, and you have to have your hair perfectly and a bun, um your uniform has to be perfectly in place, you can't wear jewellery, that type of thing. And I had my mum's um golden ring on my finger. And we had a parade one day, and this he comes up to me and he goes, What's on your finger, Steph? I said it's a r it's a ring. And um he's trying to give me a hard time and not to wear a ring, and I've basically told him, Fuck off, you can't tell me what I can and can't fucking wear at the program. And um Yeah, and then I ended up going to um complaining. And uh I end up telling a story about my ring because they're like, oh well, essentially you're not supposed to have ring, you know, rings or jewelry on the programme, but yeah, we'll let that one slide. And then later on, I'm like, oh, yeah, the 2015 incident. Remember him giving me a hard time, but then he rocked up at the fucking scene in 2015 and still couldn't look me in the face, still wouldn't come up to me and talk to me that night either.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

So weird how things happen. There's some people out there like that. But uh so back to the academy, how long is the academy? And where's where where is it at here?

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Uh Jindelop Academy, yeah. I think it's six months.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Six months.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah, six months, I think it is. But it's good over here because at least we get paid.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Yeah, and I think you say Wales have started doing it. Good. For now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Oh yeah, for now.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

But it yeah, it's a smart thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, well, hmm. I don't see why you wouldn't pay it in strike. Six months. How is anyone meant to look at it? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

Imagine if I did that with my company. Pay just you know what I mean? Six months, no pay.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Yeah, yeah. No.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Anyway, it's well, fuck government. Don't get a start.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Can't can't win. Can't fuck up.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Can't win. Uh throughout that six months of the police training, do you you enjoy it? You find all what about the I guess the the study side as well, because it's quite in depth into law.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, you've um yeah, there's um there's periods like um the first half you do like just law, and then there's another half where you do like driver training, and then oh yeah, we're gonna we're going back now. But um, yeah, the the the law side of it was actually not too bad. Um, I mean, I passed. I wasn't like top student. I didn't stand out in any sense or form, but um, I was definitely passing. Um I was definitely competitive in relation to the to the running and the fitness and the obstacle courses, so I definitely wanted to make it known that I was fit. Um, so there was another girl, um, sister squad, we'd say. So we're gold squad, and then there's another squad that goes through at the same time of you. So that's what's called your sister squad. So sister squad, there was another chick in that other um uh uh squad, and she was very fit. So it was always competitive, like with her in relation to the beep tests and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, tactical training and stuff like that. Oh that's reminded me of um so before you get your real firearms, you get given your little fake plastic Glocks that you get given. Oh yeah. So you um before you go into the range, you gotta learn how to like um pull from your holster and draw and fire, and you just gotta practice that. So you practice that muscle memory of picking, dry firing. And there was there was this um instance where I don't know how many times we're even practicing this. This is a stupid thing. Um, like okay, draw. So I went to draw and then went to punch out my Glock and I threw it across to the fucking wall. And I've just put my head down in absolute fucking shame. And I've gone, oh no, I'm I'm gonna get fucking ruined here. And um he calls the guys to okay, okay, clear, safe, reholster. So everyone re-holsters. I'm standing there still with my hands out, looking like a fucking canary. And um, then the um ostria instructor, they're called, so the ostria instructor comes right beside me, breathing heavily down on my neck, goes, pick up your fucking clock. I'm like, Yep, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Didn't do that with your real one.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

No, thankfully I never did. Thank fuck I never did. Um but yeah, the amount of um death stares and looks I was getting from the guys in the unit thinking what a fucking idiot. Like it was, yeah, I felt like a Well you live and learn, you never did it again.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Never fucking did it again. God, yeah, that was Was there any um any placements during your six months where you go to a station?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

No. Um I think when you have to do oh, we went into Northbridge and the city. Here. Yeah, here yeah, here. Somalia. Yeah, Somalian land. Um yeah, we have to actually yeah, we did have to do placement out of uh two shifts in night shift. Um, but that's towards the end of um your training because because you have to be qualified in your Glock and your taser, in your driver training, in making sure that you've passed all your your legal studies and stuff like that, so you can recite um legislation and stuff like that. So yeah, that's towards the end where you do yeah placement.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

So you do your placement, then you come back to the academy and march out. Is that how it is?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah, it was only like two two days, I think it was. It was just like a weekend. Yeah, it was just like a weekend, and then you um graduate, and then you're pretty much like the next day or the the following first day of the week. So Monday is when you get your placement for wherever you sent off.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

Did you get any uh selections? Do they give you a preference?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

They give you preference, like you can write down preferences. Um as far as I know, no one usually gets what they want. But um my first pref I think I ended up getting my second preference actually. So yeah. So my first placement was um a police station, which was good because usually your first placement is like booze bustle traffic, so no one likes the jellybacks that we call them. Um but you know what? I kind of wish that I did go to booze bus first. I end up going there second, but I kind of wish I went there first because the way you're treated is just so much different compared to where you go to station. Oh yeah, they treat you like you're an absolute piece of shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

At the station? No, at booze bus.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yeah, they treat you like you're a dumbass, yeah. Yeah. There's this one guy um when I did go to booze bus, there was this one guy um where you're doing, yeah, the booze, um, the breath testing, and um pulled a car in and just to check over a vehicle, and she was meant to be on her pea plates, and she um had one P plate up at the front, but she didn't have it in the back. And um I said to her, Oh, you you realise that you're on your P plates? And she goes, Yeah, and I said, Your back P plates fallen down, and she goes, Oh, I'm really sorry about that. I said, No, it's okay, it's all right. I'll just let you off with a warning. And then um one of the head ponchos ended up coming down, marching down with his traffic book. Steph, you're giving her an infringement? Uh no, I'm not giving her an infringement, I gave her a warning. And um his um nickname, by the way, was Fig Jam. Fuck I'm good, just ask me. And um, he ended up writing her a fucking infringement in front of me, and she's looking at me with um her her eyes welling up because she's only a young kid, and I've started wording to her, I'm so sorry. Like there's there's nothing I could do about it. I'm just a proby at that stage, and here's this um senior Connie, just absolutely taking advantage of and it just undermined what you did, yeah. Yeah, and that's that's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Which is what it should be. Yeah, benefit of the doubt, like fucks they do fall off.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, exactly. It's a young girl. And it's discretion. We all have discretion, maybe not not for the serious of things, like other serious offences, but for traffic matters, there's yeah, there's a bit of discretion there. Yeah. So yeah, that shit me. So that's why I wished I did go to Boozebus first, because then I had a really good team at my first placement, which was at Ellenbrook. And then going to Boozebus was just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

So let let's talk about this first uh Ellenbrook uh police station. Let's run me through your first first arrest, and you know, like I always ask cops that come on the podcast, you know, your first deceased, you know, though, and you know, whatever whatever. First bit of trauma.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, w was that I don't know if that was at Ellenbrook. I can't remember, but my first um exposure to sexual harassment actually happened at Ellenbrook Police Station. So by another cop. Yeah, he's now been kicked out of the job. So I won't forget that. Can't remember the first arrest, but I remember that. Like um, yeah, I meant to help, I was meant to help him go out to process a scene or something like that. And then he just straight out asked me, do a spit or swallow. And again, I'm a young proby, like, you know, how do you act? And you kind of just like snarl it off, and you kind of just yeah, mate, no, you can't be asking me that. No, seriously, it is spit or fucking swallow. And that's when I had to say something to my sergeant at that stage, and he was really good. And um, he I ended up being asked um if I wanted to make a complaint, and I said, Well, yeah, because I don't know if I'm the first. I don't I I doubt I'm gonna be the last. And unfortunately, um I wasn't the last because apparently did the same thing to a girl who was a cancer patient trying to recover cancer patient, and she he was making inappropriate comments about her breasts, and apparently made um um try to have a go at a cadet as well. And that wasn't until that happened that that's what kicked him out of the job. I said he shouldn't be working with females ever again, but look, we we knew that was never gonna happen. But you know. Um but no, maybe it was Ellenbrook three um police station would have had my first three three eight. What's that? Uh sorry, sudden death.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

338. 338 to sudden death. Code 338.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Code 338. Um, so yeah, 338 was oh God, was it Ellenbrook? It all blends into one, but I it is my I do remember my first. My first was uh was around that suburbs, but um there was a guy that used to come into the station all the time with his young little girl, I think she was four at the time, and he'd always come into the station making complaints about in his complex that he was hearing things, he was hearing voices, and coppers need to do something about it, and his little girl that he had with him was always so quiet and always just so calm, and he'd always get sent off on his way because obviously people probably well, I think the copper thought he was probably schizo anyway. So call comes in one night a day that um next door neighbours have woken up to little girl banging on the door. Um police need to attend as I think that the dad's deceased in the living room. So that's all we get. So then we get there and we get told which apartment to go into. You walk into the door and you see him, he's cut a hole in the roof, and he's tied a rope to the highest beam of the roof, and he's hanging in the living room, and yeah, you can see that there's he's there's definitely no life in him. But then as you're wal looking around the room, you see that the little girl's got her porta potty over there. You see that there's some some notes that have been like um chopped up, like she's trying it's so there's it's almost like she was trying to get his attention. That's kind of how the room read. And um yeah, so then I ended up going next door to where the little girl was as my other colleague went to take statements from other witnesses. So as I'm in the um the living area with her talking to her, she's um colouring in, she's having she's having uh, you know, a I think it was a veggie mite sandwich at that point, and she um wanted to show me her hair in the mirror. So I took her into the bathroom to show her her hair, and then she turns around and shoots me a smile, uh a big smile, and she goes, Daddy's fixing the roof like this, and tried so fucking hard in that moment not to cry because obviously she doesn't understand what's happening. I found out in that moment as well that her mum is a drug addict, but she lives in Sydney, I think, at that time, doesn't even know it's her mum. She only refers to it as a sister, and I was told as well that apparently she might have to go into care because there's no one that can take um take ownership of her since he killed himself. So here's me and my partner like looking up at him, going, You absolute fucking piece of shit, you know. Um, it was horrible. So I remember going to footy training that night, running laps, and just that vision of her in my head going, Daddy's fixing the roof. And one of the girls said something to me at footy training, I said, Yeah, fuck off. And what the fuck's wrong with you, Steph? I'm like, no, just fuck off, leave me the fuck alone. I remember just running laps and laps and laps and laps that night. I didn't I don't know what time I stopped, but I couldn't get that out of my head. Yeah. But I think that's why I'll never forget my first 338, because that one and just her, like she was beautiful, beautiful little girl. If I wasn't 21, I probably would have taken her home. Yeah. But luckily, grand there was grandparents. I don't know if they were estranged grandparents, but luckily they took um yeah, ownership of her.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Hopefully they were estranged because they're probably normal. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

So fuck man, that's just sad. Horrible.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Uh some people should just I don't know. Fuck, it doesn't make sense, does it?

SPEAKER_01 39:19

No.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Fuck this podcast is gonna annoy me the whole fucking way. I'm sorry, isn't it? It's just again, this is your first um your first experience of trauma on the job, and it's pretty, pretty, pretty heavy. Yeah. Pretty heavy. Pretty pretty heavy. Um so how how long do you spend at this station for?

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Um so when you're in when you're on probation, which means like when you um leave the academy, you're on probation for I think it's like a year before you get your set placement. So when you're on probation for a year, you can get moved several times. So I was at Ellenbrook for I think I'm gonna say three to five months, I think. And then Boozbus, that was that was only uh three, four months. And then Chiara Police Station before I went and put my um that's when I first put my posting in for country policing.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Yep, so yeah, February 2010 to August 2010, you're at uh Kiara police station. Yep. How how far is that from where you were?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Where I was living at the time.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Oh, or how far is that from the other station?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Oh, um Ellenbrook. Ellenbrook and Kiara. Yeah, they're not they're not too far.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

So it's really the same areas type thing. Yeah. Ish.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Ish. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

And how'd you find that? The other police station? Um because I you know, I I've never been a cop, but I understand that a lot of stations have their own little cliques and they they operate differently in a way.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah, well, I was glad to get out of Ellen Brook after what that happened with that officer. Like he just absolutely ruined it. Um Boozebus was obviously oh nothing, yeah, there's nothing to report here in relation to as far as I mean traffic's traffic. Um Chiara was yeah, I had a really good team, to be honest. I had a really good team. Um so there wasn't anything I can think of off the top of my memory that really stands out other than that that 338.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Yeah. So that's the 2010. From there, from that station, Chiara, you moved to Meridian?

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Meriden. Meriden, that's the one. Yeah, Meriden. Yeah, that was um the Wheat Belt District.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

So that's the rural station.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

How far is that from so from here, Meriden? Um, it's about oh, it's it's honestly it's only that far. It's like three, three and a half hour drive. Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_03 42:04

So it's still remote though.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah, so it's still not too bad.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

How many cops at this station?

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Oh, Meriden. Um God, at that time would have been ten.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Oh, so a small station, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah. Yeah, pretty small station. Yeah, it's a majority of it's just um yeah, traffic highway stuff. It was very slow paced. Um yeah, it was probably a bad move, to be honest. Yeah, it was a bad move going to Meredith.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Everyone's screaming for a footy. If you can hear that in the background, there's yeah, people scream because I think they're about to kick her. Let's just watch this for a sec. Let's see if he kicks it. He he misses it. He'll miss it.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Nah, he'll get it. Yes. Oh, I think they're gonna give you a run for your money.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Um, yeah, right, so you're obviously you're at this this country station. How long do you spend out there?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Um, so I was out at Meriden for a year. I think it was like a year.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah. Yeah. Before I um because I was really not enjoying it out there because of how slow paced it was. And I got onto the uh what's it called? The D the DTS, DST. So D D Wheat Belt District Support Team. Support team, that's it. Um the Wheat Belt District Support Team, they're like um, so if an incident happens out there that usually gang crime or TRG all that would deal with, we can go in as like a backup support.

unknown 43:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Essentially. Yep. Um, so I at that time as well, I think I was the eighth female to in the WA police to be trained in the AR-15 at that time. And I did do um firearms warrants out there, and that was good fun. Um, but yeah, as far as Meriden went, nah, it wasn't wasn't that great. Yeah. And um that I think that's probably why I ended up putting in for the Army Reserves at that time too. Yeah, right. So join the Army Reserves at that time too, which yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yeah, sorry, just on that uh support team stuff. So that's technically like a you know, advanced policing seed or all the all the tactical stuff. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Again, that act as the rural enforcement out there. That's right. So um you get extra training in um that I did they didn't do it very often, but you get extra training down at um Northern Barracks where you do like um clearance room type training, colour-coded, quiet clearance training. You get put into like scenario and you gotta deal with that. There's riot training. Um, yeah, there's lots of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

You enjoy any all that stuff? Oh, yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably why I was like, yeah, definitely want to get into the reserves. Because someone, yeah, I think it was someone from actually, I think it was someone from the um district support team that told me about you know that you can still do reserves while you're in the place. I was like, can you? And that's why I thought I would do it.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Yeah, tax free dollars. Yeah. So you join the you joined the Chocos. That's uh 2010. 2010-ish.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

I'm gonna say 2010.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

And what what are you joining as? And here we go. The lines are over. Well what a terrible time to do a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

I know. Oh my god, they just kicked a gold to his shit. Um well when I when I put in my application for it, um, because my ex, who I won't say his name because I'm pretty certain he's still in the regiment, he always talked about how shit MPs were. I remember when I did get put my ref like recommendations down, and I got through to the interview stage and they s and they pretty much started talking about MPs and oh well done, you know, you've gotten through, you got choice also, and then they started talking about MPs, and and I said, Well, hang on, I I didn't put down MPs. And then they looked down at my paperwork and I said, You but you're a cop. So, yeah, I am. Doesn't mean that I want to join the MPs.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Fake cops.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I'm I've got I got my ex in my head going fucking MPs. So I'm like, No, I don't want to join the MPs. And then he goes, Oh, okay, or what do you want to What do you want to put down then? And oh I regret it now. Um, because I probably would still be in if I didn't do it, but I just said just put me in the 13th brigade, so transport and um hated it. Loved the people, loved the guys.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Job sucked.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Job sucked.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Driving just driving.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Fucking geez. I mean, it was it was cool. Like with the um the Unimorg courses, there was one that was really good. But as far as making a career out of it, no. Like I I shouldn't I should never have chosen. I should have just done what my best friend said um who was in it, who's in still, and just went with the sap as a yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Engineers. Um did you have to do like any sort of recruit training or anything, like a Kapuka or just you know, yeah, uh yeah, I went to Kapuka. Oh, you did go to Kapuka?

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Yeah, I went to Kapuka.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Let's quickly talk about because again, you've come from that policing world where it's a little bit more relaxed. Kapuka?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

No, no, it was pretty much the same. I think that's probably why I got in trouble a lot because I laughed all the time.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Was it just reservists on the cho uh the at Kapuka?

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Yeah, it was just reserved. Yeah, just um what what were we? Yeah, we were um hallway 45. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, hallway 45. Um so yeah, it was I think from from memory, it you still got screamed at. You still got yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not as um a couple of guys that you've had on your podcast about like beds being thrown out the windows and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

I've seen it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we didn't we didn't have anything like that, but we still got screamed at and not moving quick enough about it, you know, in the comments, you know, fucking hurry up. Uh you you know, my grandparents fuck quicker than you move. Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

He's just mugged it.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Oh we should not have this on.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

I know, but there's literally one and a half minutes. We've got to watch this. We've got to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Yep, yep, yep. He's got it! Oh my god. They've done it. Oh, he was oh no, these frame male supporters. I feel bad for him.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

I feel great.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

Sick I feel. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

Brisbane be going mental right now.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Oh, look at them. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Oh, there's hundreds of them, thousands. Crying. Yeah, fuck. I know that feeling. Follow the Brisbane Broncos. All right, uh, listeners, we just took uh about a 10-minute break just to watch the Brisbane Lions win another premiership. Uh crazy finish. Crazy finish there. That was uh interesting. Fremantle will go a bit wild now. Oh yeah. Burning.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

I look good on them for getting this far. They they've this whole year, yeah. Apparently they've played pretty good. I haven't to be honest, I don't really watch the AFL anymore, but it looked that was a good game.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

It was a good game. It was a good game.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

All right, let's try and figure out where we were. Where we were. Uh we were speaking about uh Chocos. So you've done your I uh your um training, yeah, posted back to your unit. So you you're doing policing, you know, as per your normal shifts, and then you do chocos every Tuesday night.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Was that yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it. But um, yeah, I think we're talking about Kapuka.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

That was good. Yeah. I enjoyed Kapuka. So you enjoyed it, yeah. I enjoyed it because I liked the humour. I loved the humour. I loved listening to the corporals, um, especially uh the young guys, if they weren't moving quick enough and you know, yelling out their awesome little one-liners, like my grandparents fuck faster than you fucking move, and even one kid ended up spraining his ankle and had to leave because he just wasn't moving quick enough. Um, I had one of the actually one of the female corporals um on when I was going through Kapuka, she was a hard ass, but I actually really liked her. And we were on our way to do um it wasn't STIRE training, it was the other one, Minimi. Minimi training. And prior to going, she wanted me to she called me up to do her laundry. So I put her laundry on and then we went out to do the um to the Minimai course, and then as we're marching our way there, then she she's marching beside me. She goes, Thanks, Private Pachowski, for doing my laundry. I'm like, No problem, Corporal. She goes, You didn't fucking sniff my underpants, did you? I said, I had to fight the urge, Corporal. And she's the first time I saw a crack of smile through the whole thing. I was like, ah, gotcha. But um, yeah, whenever there was like little smart ass little comments or one-liners, it was I was the one that was always laughing. And I even on um graduation day when we all uh yeah were marching out, sergeant um went to say something, and here I am chuckling in the back, and he goes, Fucking Pachowski, is that you again? No, no, sergeant. So yeah, no, I loved it. Yeah, yeah. I've still got mates to this day from there. It's it's so different. Like the army mateshift compared to police mateship, it's it's different. It's different, it's so different.

SPEAKER_03 52:01

Yeah, yeah, certainly is, certainly is. Um so you come back, obviously, like I said, you come back, you've got to go back to policing. That's your that's your real job. That's my full-time job. That's your real job. Yeah, and then you do the uh the Choco stuff on the side. So from there, 2011, uh you you move police stations to a two-person police station. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Yeah, Dalwallon.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Where's that? Look, you gotta break this down for me because how do I explain that to you?

SPEAKER_01 52:29

That you don't live in this state.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

No, Western Strays. Is it north or west? Oh south?

SPEAKER_01 52:34

See, I don't even know directions. I'm not I'm I'm that bad. I'm a chick. I'm blonde. Um Dalwally. Um, so on the way to space. On the way to Mora, on the way to oh God. Yeah, it's it's honestly, it's not even that far. It's about an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

But it's only uh hour and a half from June L up.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

So it's not even that far. So it's still country, but it's honestly.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

No, it's definitely country. It's like dirt.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

It's still country, but in the same sense, um, it's only an hour and a half, and uh, it still gave me the um time to be able to drive down to make it to Tuesday night parade night and be able to drive back up the next morning. So it was good.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Yep, yep. And there's only two cops out there. It's fucking a tiny town. That's like probably the same size as my suburb. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

It's smaller than a suburb.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

It's all brethren town too.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

It's a mitre ten there.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

I'm kidding petrol station too, yeah. Little bakery. That yeah, it's a it's a it's a bum fuck town. There's nothing there.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

And how how long have you spent out there?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Uh a year. I sent I sent I spent a year out there because I was obviously enjoying I was enjoying the army stuff. I wanted to come back. And also when you go and when I went to Meriden and then to Dalwan, Dalwallin, I'm single at that time because I went through like a really bad breakup. And when you're in those country remote towns, you can't really blend in. Yeah. You can't really, you know, be with the locals as such, because you're the copper in town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So being single and in those remote areas, it was really it was hard. Yeah, it was hard.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

Yeah, and what's what's the population out there? Oh god. Like a thousand or less.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

In in Delhi? Yeah. Um let's have a look. Yeah, like I said, it's like a brethren town, so it's it's not much. All you do is um highway patrol type work, really.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

Seven hundred people.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

No way. I chose to everyone knew everyone.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

I chose a good town, didn't you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

And like how does that work for a two-person police or two police station? Like how how do the shifts work a year? Either swapping or is it uh you're just on Monday to Friday and just you're on you're on call.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

No, yeah, that's pretty much it. You're pretty much um it's just me and the sergeant. Um, again, like 16 years of policing, right? There's not many people or bosses that I can say were were good. The one that I had out in Dalwalony, he was he was legit, good. Good dude. Like he was a good dude. Um, so it was always me and him on shift, like day shift, but say that something happened that that night.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

It's like a call out.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Yeah. I mean, because people rock up at your front, because I know where you live as well, people rock up at your front door saying You're living at the police station?

SPEAKER_03 55:40

Is it one of those ones?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

No, I had a I had a nice um brand new four by two house. So I was lucky. I I I walk I could walk to the police station from my house. So but um, yeah, I remember when I first when I first arrived in town, this is how this is how small the town is, right? Like when I first arrived in town, because I had at that time I had my sights on wanting to eventually maybe going into TRG. What a joke now, but yeah, I wanted to go into TRG, so I was really big on my fitness then. And I asked my sergeant where there were some, you know, tyres that have been thrown out. So he he told me where to go and I got one, and then I'm doing tire flips down my road, and then someone goes into the police station where Weldie that's who's my sergeant was Weldie goes in the station and goes, Oh Weldie, there's some fucking loony flipping tires down the street. And he goes, Oh yeah, uh, was what does this look like? Oh, she's like blonde and this and that. And goes, Oh yeah, that's my new constable. So okay, just thought I'd check.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Yeah, we don't do that in country towns.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

What's she doing? Working out? What's that?

SPEAKER_03 56:59

So you spend a year out there. Is any like again, these small country towns, not probably too much happens out there, maybe different again, different rules out there for the country, for the country folk.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, like I said, it was Brethren town, so they're they're a whole new breed, those ones. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, it was it was busy. You've got to make you busy. He, my sergeant, first got me introduced into doing up drug warrants and stuff like that. So that's where I first started doing um regular drug warrants, and I really I really liked doing that. It was, I mean, it was mostly cannabis back then. Yeah. Um, traffic stops, because you find that most people um traveling on the highways and that, they actually do have quite a bit of gear on them. That was good. Um, and whilst you're working out of the because you're in small country towns, um, when say like your next connected uh sorry, so say your next country town across whatever direction you're going. Um, so say for instance, Wongan Hills, which is a three-man station that was about a 50-minute drive from us, if someone goes on annual leave, they'll need someone to replace that person for the week. So then there was lots of that happening. Like if you could um replace someone for a week at at other stations, you do that. So I'd do that. I'd um I'd relieve out of um Wonken Hills, I relieved out of Mora, I relieved out of um Corda. Oh god, that's an that's a station I think probably has less than 700 people. There was no one there. Um but yeah, no, it was it was actually really good. It was like I said, it was just very as a single person, it was just very isolating. So that's why I was only there for a year when I was like, I I have to go back to Perth. I have to do something else that's gonna stimulate me a bit more than what I'm doing now. Yeah, because I was getting I mean, the like I said, the drug warrant stuff and all that was good fun, good practice, um, as well as the DST stuff, but it wasn't enough, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

Yeah, of course. So from there you come back to Perth, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Yeah, I put in four liquor enforcement unit, which is um undercover.

unknown 59:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Yep, that was good fun.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

And what's what's that doing?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

So liquor enforcement is uh essentially you go to your um your districts or uh licensed premises. So pubs, you know, nightclubs, one of those.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

There we go. I know finding pubs for not having their gambling cards up.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Yeah. Or bouncers having their cards around the wrong way, you know, things like that. Yeah. No, but it was good. It's mainly just um standing back and watching and observing more than anything. I mean, look, you go to the pub, you're gonna get fucking drunk, right? Like, isn't it? Yeah. So you can't you can't really police that to an extent of okay, who served that person? Okay, they're pissed, okay, who's the person that just served them? Okay, we're gonna give them no, no, it doesn't work that way, not to that extent.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

It's more about the dodgy operators.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

Yeah, that and keeping your registrar up to date, making sure that people are on the books, that's another thing. Making sure bouncers and security guards are working within the parameters of their work. Some of them can abuse the system a little bit. Yeah, of course, yeah, dodgy operators, yeah. Yeah, just like I get that, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it was mainly just about observing and keeping the peace and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:41

So that was good. What area is this? Are we talking like C B D?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

Yeah, I was C B D. Yeah. Yeah, I was out here too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

I guess um tell you what, there's blood everywhere. No, I was gonna do it. It's wild. Yeah. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

But the but there that was a when back when I did LEU, you weren't you weren't supposed to really intervene as much as well, which was hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

Because your job is literally just licensing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Yeah, unless unless obviously something's happening on your watch, you intervene. But technically they told us like you you shouldn't unless it's absolutely necessary. Yeah. Which I found very hard because if someone was having a fight in front of me, of course I'm gonna step in. I can't not.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

Yeah, it is your job.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Yeah, yeah. Well, even off duty, I can't. Yeah, I can't let things slide. We had a couple of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

That's uh that's that's crazy. So you spent how uh what about a year in that?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Um I spent, yeah, it was only a year because um unfortunately I had another instance of sexual harassment again. Another one, another one, the boss, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

So he um whenever I mean there was instances where I would drop off my case files or anything in his room, uh, sorry, in his office, and he'd just make the comments like, thanks, babe. And I'd that's what can you do? I was the only female at I was the only female operator at that time there as well. There was another other female there that was working, but she wasn't part of the um the teams that I was in, so I felt like I was the only well, I was the only female at that time during those teams. Um, and also because of my surname that you pronounce so well. Um Bachowski. Well done. My social media up until now, I never had my surname posted because um obviously it's unique, it's there's no Bachowskis in all of Australia, so I always had like a alias name on on social media anyway. So apparently I posted a photo of me in my bathers or something, and then that's when he called me into his office one day and and he said, uh Steph, um, the guys are talking about uh you and your profile picture on your social media. I was like, Okay. And he's like, um, I don't think it's really appropriate for you to be um posting photos of you and your bathers, do you think? I'm like, that's my social media accounts like an alias. Like I don't shouldn't you be having the conversation with the boys, like not me. Like if they're making inappropriate comments, shouldn't you be talking to them, not me? It it just it just singled me out to feel like I've done something wrong. Like it's not like I was in a flashy pose and like my leg up the goo ha. I don't know, I don't know, like I wasn't doing anything provocative. Um, I just had a photo of on my bathers and yeah, so then he was making you know comments about that, calling me babe, those type of things, and then um it just got yeah, I I just got really uncomfortable in the environment there, and he just made it super uncomfortable. And then yeah, I think he ended up getting um getting booted as well for something else. Yeah, putting um tracking down.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

I've I've heard plenty of these stories, and like it's just creepy.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:14

Yeah, just yeah, just let me do my job. It's all I wanted to do, just let me do my job. It just felt like you know, from Ellenbrook to LEU, and I think LEU is when started things just started to really fall apart for me career-wise, because in the in the cops, um it's not like you get your next placement and it's like a clean slate. Everything follows you, everyone talks, everyone makes comments or has an opinion about everyone, so you never really have a um yeah, a clean slate. And I'm the type of person that doesn't take shit, and I stand up for myself. So if I'm gonna stand up for myself and I'm not gonna take shit, then I'm gonna be labelled as the difficult one. And that's essentially how this starts to progress down the line. I'm the difficult one.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, so from there you transfer to Bayswater police station. Bayswater.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

Um that is it's near Perth. Near the water, I'm assuming. Yeah, it's near Perth. Bayswater, yeah. Bayswater was um, yeah, it wasn't too bad. And what's it what's that as back to GDs or Yeah, that's just um uh yeah, patrols and inquiries officer. Um and that's when I started looking at okay, now I really need to focus on where I want to go with my career, and that was I did want to go down the canine route. Like I I joined the I actually joined the police because I really did want to get into canine be a canine operator. It just hadn't happened yet. Um, so that's when I started focusing again on my um my fitness um and I went to a martial arts seminar, I think, and this was in between my crossfit training, running, netball, and yeah, went to a martial arts seminar, and then the next morning I couldn't move. And then when I got up to go to the doctor's and get a scan, I had a sli um, so it wasn't just it was a bulging disc, but then turned into a slip disc, but then I had cortisone injections. This was my whole time whilst I was at Bayswater. Um but because the cortisol injection it was bulging, it was bone, it was essentially bone on bone, and I had to have back fusion surgery. So because of all that happening, I was taking so much leave from the army reserves because I was in so much back pain. So essentially I ended up being um let go from the reserves as well. So I didn't even get to do as much time as I wanted or transferred to another unit, which I'll which I planned on doing. Um so yeah, then I ended up whilst I was at Bayswater police station, that's when I got um back fusion surgery, which I was gutted about because I was on a um the selection course of the mounted police section. So I was really looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:36

So you how how long do you spend uh on recovery?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

At Bayswater.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:41

Oh yeah, well obviously after surgery. You got a few months off.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Well fuck. I was um I was I was pretty much told I had to go back to work.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:52

Um just like restricted duties.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

Yeah, but the thing was, like I was on um oh what are they called? So what are those wicked painkillers called? I'm having a brain fog.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

Codeine.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Codeine. Tremadol. You're rattling off.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:09

They're my favourite, they're my favourite ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Um God, what was it? Um, yeah, I'm having a mental fart. Umxycode. That's it. Oxy. I was on the oxy. Love the oxy. Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

But addictive.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

No, well, you know what? I I got told that from the doctor that you would stop that don't stop cold turkey because you they are addictive. I did stop cold turkey and I was fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

But man, when I was on it, I remember sitting there at the police state because they pretty much Said you need to come back to work because I've had you know too much sick leave. Yeah. And I'm at the desk on Oxy, like uh, and I'm thinking this isn't safe. Like, what you forcing me back to work to still be on medication with a gun. Well, no, I was on light duty, so I didn't have a gun.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:59

But still, be throwing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Yeah, that's muscle memory, isn't it? But um, I I still had to deal with the front counter and the public and stuff like that. So it's cooked, yeah. Absolutely cooked unit. So you can imagine like someone walking and me just uh yeah, that was bad. And driving home. I had to drive home as well while you're in your oxy. That that can't be safe. It's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

It says it on the box.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:25

Yeah, it just says it on the box.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

Don't operate machinery or drive vehicles or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:29

But hey, this is the police, they need their people.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

Yeah, that's it, isn't it? It's yeah, again, it's not it's not the first time I've heard stories like this. It's um on the regular, which is wild. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Yeah, um but don't want to retain their offices. But hey, let's send it back to work because they're short officers.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:48

Just quickly in between this time, so you've been a cop for how many years by that time? About three, four years.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:58

Yeah, 2008 to 2009. 2008 to 2012.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:01

Yeah, so three three, four years. Obviously, we spoke about that first, you know, that first uh code 338.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:09

I'll write that one down.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:10

I'll save that one. Um anything else significant happened within that first couple of years? You know, crazy arrests or more, I'm sure there's more trauma, especially in those uh remote areas.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

I'm sure I don't know, road traffic accidents and there probably is, but there's nothing that really sticks out just regular stuff to me right now. Yeah. I mean, because it's every day is there's a common occurrence, you know, with um uh domestics and children getting caught caught in the crossfire of it. That's what I didn't like about it. Bayes water was actually an interest actually, Bayswater. There was one before I did have my back surgery. There was a a call. Um, my I was in the office, I was on night shift, and my um partner, I think, called in sick, who so I was in on the office by myself, and the call came across the radio that the next station across needed help because an officer had been stabbed.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Yeah. So that's when because we're not supposed to go one up. Of course. Um, but I felt, well, it's female, it's a female offender, maybe because you know, with these strip searches and stuff like that, maybe I could be useful to go out there. So I ended up going um clocking myself in and um getting the car and saying that I'm one up heading to the scene. And um she's um having a full-on blown episode after she stabbed the officer. He he's off um to get um assistance to get some help, and she's absolutely going mental, and one of the girls that was already there said that she's already been um searched to make sure that she had nothing on her. And um, I said, Okay, well, she needs and she's obviously being got to be conveyed to Greyland Hospital um due to mental health assessments. But prior to her going, I got her assisted in a strip search again, and that's when I found two razor blades strapped to the thighs, her inner thighs. And I remember saying to that other female officer, I was like, I thought you said that you strip searched her. Oh, I searched her, she goes, I did. And I was like, Well, I've just found two razor blades on the side of her thighs, like and it's it's instances like that. You think, fuck, if if you don't pick up on these things and say I was the one conveying her to the hospital when she was in the back of the paddy wagon and she pulled those blades out. I'm gonna be seriously scrutinised for that because I was one up as well. So thank God I found found that.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:01

What did she have them there for?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Don't know, probably she I think she was a cutter as well. Yeah, right. So she just she just um she just like I said just stabbed an officer in the chest. I think he I think he he was okay, thankfully, because of the um the armor. But yeah, she probably just wanted to self-harm as well. I think she probably intended on doing that because it was a proper proper blades, yeah. There's cutters there.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:29

I don't know. I've you know like I know it's side side quest here, but you see the people and you see all the cuts in their arms and all their legs, I'm like, fuck, like I don't know. Like I I can't pain, yeah. I don't get it. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

I'd no, no, I uh yeah, I couldn't give an answer. I would I didn't know either. It's I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:49

I think it's less probably less these days. I remember growing up, you know, yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

I don't know if it's because they're just so numb that they need to feel some sort of pain or relief. I I don't know, that's just my assumption, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:03

It's horrible. Yeah, dunno, dunno. I used to do smileys with the lighters, that's bad. Or the links together and the cold burns. That was the extent, but uh, I suppose that's probably the same mentality in some way. Um so from that 2014 period, like you said, you're you're recovering from this uh injury, still on restricted duties, but from there you get stationed to Perth. Yes. Station.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

Yes. I got sent there because that's when um Carla Canahan thought it was a great idea to bring in the frontline 2020 reform model.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:42

Who's Carl?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

Carl O'Canahan was the um Commissioner. So he was the commissioner uh up until 2017. Yeah, 2017. Um so the 2020 frontline reform was when they so each district, so every police station, you have your police station and you have your offices, right? And when you're on duty, you're on duty. You respond to calls, you do inquiries, you things like that. The 2020 reform, you had LPT teams and RT teams, which means you had so you'd have your team, so say you had a team of like uh 10, they'd be split in the middle. You got your local police teams, which do just follow-up inquiries and stuff like that. So instances and uh things that have already happened, and you've got to do follow-up inquiries about, so statements, CCTV footage, things like that, that's that was LPT's job. And then you had RT jobs, so response teams, and they were the ones that when a call came in, they responded, they just go to the jobs. And if there was um, say that they responded to a domestic violence incident, and then um there was more that had to be done on it like the following day, they'll compile the case file, give that to the LPT teams, and they follow up. Gotcha, gotcha. So you never followed up on things, it was essentially you respond to jobs, that's it. So yeah, when I got to Perth, um, because the reform came in in late what rolled out to Perth late 2014. And then yeah, I got to Perth and I was on the LPT teams before I went to the response teams. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

Yeah, right. And like you said, you're just following up on things that have happened. Essentially, like it's like a it's like a it didn't work a poor detective.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

Yeah, yeah. Pretty much. And it it didn't work. It didn't work at Perth police station because you needed coppers on the beats to do the to walk through this lovely North Bridge here. So we had to do um, yeah, it was um we so we had to do night shift pretty much every week, um walking the beat um when we had around the nightclub districts and that. So how we meant to attend to inquiries when we're doing that all the time. Meant to police. Yeah, it didn't, yeah. It didn't it did not work, so that's why when um Chris Dawson came in changed, uh he got that was the first thing and got rid of it and that was probably the best thing he did. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:25

Uh during that time you're on the what's it called again? LPT?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

Yeah, I started on the LPT teams and then I went over to the response teams, and that was I liked I liked my um uh team at at um response teams, that was good.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:47

Yep, yep. However, during this period of 2014 to 2016, this incident like I spoke about right at the start of the podcast, uh with this guy that tried to set his kids on fire. Run me through this entire story because eventually you are awarded a um police bravery medal for award for it. So let's let's run through this. And and I find it really applicable because I I believe if you're a cop, you're a cop 24-7.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:21

Absolutely. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:22

You know, there's there's no shift, there's no you're you're a cop 24-7. So yeah, let let's run through this this this incident because it's yeah, I think it's all too applicable this day and age too, especially with all that bullshit that we're going through. Yeah, women's hormones and all this stuff, but this was a dude, and obviously you know yeah, anyway, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:43

Yeah, so um I finished night shift at Perth um the night before, and it was around midnight where I'm sitting in uh the front room. I was actually before I came in here, I was actually trying to to look up these two comeback fighters. So I was watching a UFC comeback fight interview. I I still can't find who it was, but anyway, they were two of my favourite at the time. Um, I was watching that in my living room, and my bedroom is situated at the back of the house. So I had a movie on pause in my bedroom because I was so intrigued and watching the doc uh the comeback interview in the front of the house. But anyway, so I'm sitting there watching this UFC interview, and I hear screaming and yelling across uh across the road. So I opened up the wooden door and I looked out the fly screen door, and I can hear it sounded like a couple arguing, and then I see this woman pacing in her pink dressing gown from the front door, and she's like, No, don't be silly. The kids are asleep, and then I hear him saying something to the effect of the Maris are out to get me. She knows the Mauri's aren't out to get you, don't be silly, just I love you, and I'm thinking, okay, well, it's obviously is probably two drunk people and it's a domestic. That's kind of how it sounded. So I'm standing there watching, listening, and and then that's all at the sense of it at the moment. So then I thought I'll go sit back down, but I'll leave the front door open. So I sit back down, and not even a minute later, um, I hear this like blood-curdling scream. So I run out onto the my front porch and I yell across the road, Are you okay? Do you need help? And she yells back at me, setting my kids on fire. So I start running towards her, and as I've run past her, I've said, Call the police, no one is to come in after me. So then I open up the door and I don't know where I'm going because I've never yeah, I don't know where I'm going. I can smell petrol in the air. My eyes are diverted to the right hand side of the room, and in that room you see like a light flickering, you know, it's almost like a candle flickering. You know, when you see that. So I start making my way towards a room, and then I get confronted with a three-year-old with a whole head engorged in flames standing in the cot. And the first thing that comes out of mouth, my mouth is, Oh my god. I see a blanket and a cot, so I've thrown it over her head to put out the flames, and as I'm doing that, I felt a presence behind me, and I've turned around, and there is the fat who I know to be the father now. He's staring directly at me, fully naked, dousing his seven-year-old in petrol as well, whilst he's looking at me. And I'm I'm I'm only gone by um ages because I think that their names are still sense uh sensitized. So I I can't, I don't think I should say their their names out of um out of privacy because I know that it's still um I know that their names are still very sensitized. Um so the three-year-old, she's after I've put the flames out on her, she's grabbed me like really tightly around the neck, and she wouldn't let go at that point. So all I can smell is the petrol and the smell, like that smelling flesh. That's all I could smell as well. And I've turned to him as he's pouring the petrol on the seven-year-old, and I've gone, get the fuck away from her. Because I'm thinking, I'm in my pajamas, I've got the three-year-old hanging on around my neck. What else can I do? I don't have any recruitments, I don't have any backup. I'm gonna have to fucking try and put on the tough exterior. So I've said, get the fuck away from her. And he goes, Why don't you take your clothes off? And I said, What the fuck are you talking about? Get the fuck away from her. He wasn't listening, and I thought any moment now is gonna set her on fire. So I started to creep closer to the bed, and I've said, come to the seven-year-old, I've said, Come on, sweetie, get up. And she wasn't listening, she wouldn't get up. So then I've had to creep further forward, um, not realizing he had a butcher knife in his other hand as well. So then I've grabbed the back of a collar of her pajamas, dragged her out of the bed, and managed to run out of the run out of the bedroom with both of them. And so managed to get the two girls out. I got the seven-year-old with the mum. Um, there's neighbours that are now here around the front, and they said that the police are on the way. I told um the three-year-old's mum, I'm really concerned about your little girl. I'm taking her to my house. So then as we walk we're walking towards my house, and I'm telling her it's okay. Um during this whole time, she's not screaming, she's not yelling, um, she was just sobbing. And we get into my bathroom and I put her onto the bathroom bench, and I get a towel and I go to wet it, and I start to pat around her chest and her face, and it's so swollen and red at that stage. And then as I've gone to unbutton the top of her pajamas, I can see it's like black. And then I thought to myself, um, this towel's not going to do anything. I need to get her into the bath. My bathroom, it has it was one of those old school bathrooms that had the shower over the bathtub. So I started to fill the bathtub, and I've gone to put her down into the bath, and she wouldn't let go of me again. She just kept on hanging on to me again. So I started taking my socks off with the full intentions of getting in the shower with her, but then she saw that the the bath was starting to fill up with water, and then that's when she finally let go. And I kneeled down on the floor with her, and I'm telling her that it's okay, and I'm wondering why she's not like looking up at me, and then it wasn't until I realized then that her face had melted into her chest, and that's why she wasn't looking up at me. And um, I also noticed that her right ear had completely singed off, and her hair was starting to singe off and fall into the bathtub as well. And while I'm sitting there trying to be as calm as I can for her, um, that's when I heard my name being called, and one of the coppers came in and she comes around, she goes, Stefania, I said I was in the bath, I'm in the bathroom. She comes around the corner, and you just see her. I just I didn't realise it in the moment, but it wasn't until I looked at her face and seeing that the colour just washed from her face and how pale she went. She just turned into a complete ghost at the sight of looking at the three-year-old. And I said, It's all right, just let the ambulance know that I'm in here. Just please let them know that she's here. Um, and then that's when the ambulance um soon arrived, feels like forever, but yeah, came and took her, and that's when I went back outside, and that's when yeah, detectives and the police ended up rocking up. And yeah, I won't forget when he was being handcuffed, like when he was walked up the driveway in handcuffs. It'll always stick with me, the fact that he said, Oh, here she is, here's that UFC fighter, as if to know what I was watching at that time. That that will not I can't make sense of that. That how could he have known that? You know? So the one thing that always gets me the most is the fact of that she didn't she didn't scream, she didn't cry, she entrusted me, and she was so I think she was so brave. If I if I think about bravi, or if anyone ever talks about bravery, I always think I always picture her. And um it kills me to know that because of what he did to her, as well as as well as his seven-year-old little girl who had severe autism, by the way, and she was non-verbal. The three-year-old was put in an induced coma. Um she had 13% burns to her body all upper body. Um she had to have um uh general aesthetic just to have special wound care. And she um had to have investigations into the damage of her vocal cords as well as um her right ear. And she has to she can't go out and play like normal kids. She has to have like ongoing surgery for the rest of her life because of the extent of her injuries. And what kills me the most is someone that's meant to be your ultimate protector, your father. And she's gonna have to stand there and look in the mirror every day and be reminded of who did that to her. Um, I can't think of anything worse for her. It just it's it's unimaginable what she would be going through. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:27

Um what happens over the next, you know, I guess a few days for for yourself? 'Cause it's pretty traumatic, I guess. One thing You know, being a police officer, seeing all the regular shit that police officers see. But to the extent of uh dealing with something like this where it's forced upon by someone else, it's and it's it's pure evil.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:58

This bug should be should be put down. You know, that's the the way I see things.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:02

But like how do you how do you go over the next few days and I'm sure you've get some time off and yeah, and um I always said as well, like um I don't know if you've seen I don't know which one of the movies of Batman, but you know when they throw them down in the hole and they have to defend for themselves? I said that's where he does, I said that's how it should be. For people like him, throw them into a hole and have them defend for themselves. The ones that die, or the ones that end up getting killed, just fucking put them up in the middle and send them right up. I wish there was something like that in place. Yeah. But yeah, so after that had happened, um I obviously I obviously didn't sleep. And the next day I went to the hospital to check in on all of them, and that's when I spoke with um mum, and she told me about how three-year-old was still in the coma, how seven-year-old had um she got uh checked over for smoke inhalation, and she was okay, she was gonna make full recovery. Um and I also didn't know, but there was a little boy in the house too, but he slept in a separate bedroom and he got he got out uh thankfully, and uh when after I got the two girls out, uh a neighbor who got uh accommodation as well, rightfully so, he attacked him with a knife, and as that was happening, one of the other neighbours got the boy out of the house, and apparently she heard the father yell out, Don't worry, I wouldn't have lit my boy up. So he was at the hospital, he was okay. Um but I remember the mother having a conversation with me, and she's just rightfully distraught, and then she goes, I have to leave him, don't I? And then she's looking at me, waiting for me to say something, and I've gone, well, yeah. And she's like, Oh, okay, like as if to get um what's the word I'm thinking of? Um yeah, it's almost like she needed to be convinced that she needed to leave him after this, and I remember walking away from that thinking, why did why does she need to talk that over from me? Of course you would. I mean, you tried to kill tried to kill your kids, but then it was in it wasn't until I went to domestic violence later on in my career. It's like, oh you know what, when someone has been with a piece of shit father like that for so long, where they're trapped essentially trapped, where they're gone through all types of drugs, it's it's hard to think that there's any other way or any other way out, because that's all you know. So a normal person would be like, Yeah, of course. But to those people that are in the thick of this, it's it's hard for them to see a way out and to know what to do when it's kind of already been the path has been paved for you, so to speak. Um so yeah, I couldn't see the three-year-old because of that, and I I told the mum um that I'd give her my mum my mobile number, which I did, but then I broke my phone, so that's why I've never been able to get in touch with them again, which I hate because I wanted to. Um, and yeah, I did take a couple days off work um to catch up on sleep, but then I had the media pests on my freaking front lawn. That was great. Um, and essentially between those couple of days, I was told by detectives that my house wouldn't be covered on the news and things like that, but then that happened, so then I had to move because other things happened from from uh dominoes effect from from that happening. Um and yeah, I did a media conference, I think a couple days later, and I just presented at work like I was fine because you know it's hard enough as it is uh being a female and a male dominated career, because let's face it, it is. So if you are portrayed as weak or you can't get over it straight away, then you're useless pretty much. So I essentially went went into avoidance, like anyone that tried to talk about the story, about what happened, like that the I wouldn't have been able to get through this conversation back then. Like I I couldn't tell the story. I'm at a good place now where I can. But um yeah, back then I went to avoidance. Um I had to move house because yeah, like I said, the um media weren't supposed to cover my house, which they did, and then I ended up having um uh intel guys calling me up saying that oh because of the because of how much um coverage this case has had, we need to know who you're dating, where's your dad live, do you go to the gym, do you where do you go outside of work? So that obviously freaked me out and started to make me even more paranoid um that I had to move within a couple months, which I did and yeah. Then I moved um to an apartment block down the road from the station actually. And I wasn't sleeping, I was having nightmares, I was being aggressive, I was very short-fused, just you know, behaviors like that. So then I went to the doctor and they and they said, You need to take a couple weeks off. Um just don't worry about work, just focus on doing the things that you enjoy doing, and we will reassess then. So with the four weeks I had off, I think it was like the last day of sick leave when I was meant to return to work, and that's when I ruptured my ACL and broke my ankle at the same time. Just to top it off, just to fucking top it off. No, this is just the start. This is just the start, and um this is yeah, and I remember the doctor saying to me, goes, Oh, I haven't even seen an athlete do this well done. I'm like, yeah, I don't do things half-assed, that's for sure. So yeah, so hadn't properly compressed um what had happened yet, took some time off, and to top it off, now I've got a broken ankle and a ruptured ACL. I only just met my partner at the time, um now husband. And yeah, so we were only dating for like a couple weeks, and then I had to move in with him because I had no one else to look after me, because my apartment, there's no um, there was no lift or access to the top floor, it was only stairs, and I obviously couldn't get to the top floor, so I had to deal with paying for my uh apartment at the same time as my hubby looking after me. So God, I don't know how he's stuck, I don't know why stuck with me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:19

Just back to the incident. The guts it takes to run in an unknown situation. No firearm, no knife, no baton, no OC spray, no nothing. And for you afterwards to think you had to just balls it up and just say, you know, oh no, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. It it doesn't, you know, I think you were fighting a battle within within your own head as you as you were doing. Take some fucking balls to run into a house like that and then deal with a fucking nutcase like that. With the you know, he had the the meat cleaver in his hands. And if there is God out there or something, maybe it was lucky that it was a woman that ran into that house. Maybe if it was a dude, maybe he would he might have reacted differently. So I think you've got to look at it that way as well. It's um that's gutsy.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:20

You know what?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:21

But that's what police should do is also that's the way I see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:25

I mean, if you're gonna serve to protect, you do it as you said at the start, 24-7. And I've always had that mentality. I've never been the type of person that that shies away or I mean, even here in Northbridge, I always said to the guys off on duty, like whenever I was on duty, I was like, if there's ever gonna be a fucking fight tonight, I'm in, I'll have your back, in the hopes that someone would break my nose so I could get my nose job, but that still hasn't happened. So or you're boxing there. So it was a secret alternative, yeah. But no one's broken my nose yet. So that was a secret motive there. But yeah, but yeah, if you're gonna sign up to serve and protect, you need to be able. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:09

It didn't even cross your mind though.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:11

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:12

Your next step was your balcony inside that house. There was no in-between. You already made your decision.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:19

Yeah, and I don't know if it's to take action. Yeah, I don't I don't know if it's also as well like I think it hits differently as well when it comes to kids, elderly animals, yeah, you know, I think it just hits differently.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:33

I think but that mother could have been lying. You know, it turns out they're all druggers, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

Like, yeah, that scream though. When you hear that type of scream, you kind of just you yeah, you know when you when I heard that scream, I just I knew. Yeah, I hadn't heard anything like that before.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:50

Yeah, obviously, yeah, the next year, two years, there's I'm sure there's a lot of court appearances and getting this scumbag. Edward John Herbert.

unknown 1:42:03

Ugh.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:03

Your time's coming, mate. Your time is coming. Pretty fucking sad to hear they're only got 15 years.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:10

The justice system, you judges wake up to your fucking selves. You're destroying this country, you're killing people. Yeah. Fifteen years. That's that's that's life.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:23

I know our justice system over here is pretty weak.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:25

It's it's gutless. Yeah. It's gutless. These judges are gutless. I'm gonna find out this judge's name, I'm gonna call him out. Him or her, whoever it is. And I I've been doing it with all these judges lately because it's disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:35

This guy should get life. That's it. Life or eye for an eye. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:41

And that's the thing will set you on fire. Yeah, yeah. And I would.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:44

Good choice of life. I would, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:46

And that's the thing over here. Like when people well, it's it's different with the American system. When you hear um life sentence, people think it is life, whereas it's out it's actually 20 years over here. It needs to be actual life.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:00

I've said this, yeah, I've said this before on the US ones. They'll do life, then they give you life in the afterlife. I heard it somewhere, like it was on YouTube. This judge is like when you die, you'll get another sentence, and when you die again in that life, you're gonna get another sentence, like, oh my god, yeah, I love this guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:17

I wish it was like the way it should be.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:21

And again, like like I said, we're going through this scenario. Lindsay Clancy, there's that woman here in Australia that just got let off with the mental health and killed her two kids. Disgusting. Lindsey Clancy kills three kids. And then there's all these people supporting it. I this is the part I don't get. What is going on with this fucking world? What is going on? No, it's enraging.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:48

It makes me fucking angry. It does as a fucking woman, especially hearing these women support a fucking murderer. She fucking murdered her three kids with let's with a exercise band. So she would have watched the life come out of there every single one, every single one of them, not just once, three times. That takes a lot of effort in order to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:14

That's a lot of evil.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:15

And that's and how how you how you can this is what I mean. I can't fathom it. I can't fathom that we're having these conversations that there is women that do support this. Because it are we really at a point in our lives now where this is sane, where this is acceptable. And I said I said to you before as well that well, if you think that if you're gonna blame it on hormones, then it's like blaming men with testosterone.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:41

Yeah, exactly right. Same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:42

And saying they can get away with rape. It's yeah, you know, if and if the tables are turned, if this was a bloke that had done this to their three kids, can you imagine the uproar?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:51

It's it's well like I said now, with there's that dude in Brisbane that killed his whole family. Yeah. Set them all on fire in the car. It's just there's not a single dude out there that backs that shit. God, you know what I mean? Like there's not a sing there's not a single person that I think there should fuck, man. I don't get it. It's fucking I knew this was gonna enrage me.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:12

Yeah, no, I don't get it either. That's what I mean. Like, I don't understand where these women, the the supporters in third commas, where these supporters have come off saying, Oh yeah, it's just mental health. Like fuck, I had postpartum depression. I had postpartum depression. I had to go to the Marian Center because I was fucking struggling. Not once did I ever think I want to kill my child.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:38

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:39

If anything, it was I need to go get the help because I don't want her having to get therapy because of me. Like every other sane woman out there would think. So this is this is I can't understand it either. It's it's it's doing my head in because I'm trying to make sense of it too, like where these supporters are coming off, thinking that it's okay. And and this is where we get back to the point with mental health, um, about how much it's spoken about and how much it's seen in the in in the in the media, and how many people are you know self-diagnosing as well. And they're also there's lots of people out there that are also um they are getting confused with feelings as opposed to a mental health diagnosis, if that makes sense. So if you say, Oh, I'm feeling a bit sad, I'm feeling a bit a bit down, or you must have depression. No, that's feelings. That's everyone goes through that. Oh, I have a bit of anxiety. Everyone has a bit of anxiety. Anxiety is a good thing, it's not so much a bad thing. Everyone needs a little bit of anxiety. Everyone does, yeah. Uh especially for you know, me at the moment for exams. Like everyone gets anxiety.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:58

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:58

But it's a good thing, it's not a bad thing. But and this is where we're starting to get um really can like people out there really starting to get confused, is everyone has everyday stresses. It's when everyone starts putting labels on things, is when it starts to pass a dangerous path. And you know, and with my, like I said, with my recent diagnosis with ADHD, and my my my little girl also has ADHD, and then you explain some things to people, and they go, Oh yeah, I think I think everyone's a little ADHD. Oh, fuck off. It's it's not that simple. Um I have it's it's ongoing day-to-day practices, behaviors, it's not feelings. I'm not talking about feelings. Yeah, anyway. Now I'll go on a tangent. No, no, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:49

I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:50

Yeah, I just I think it was Judge Jenkins. Was it that makes yeah, Judge Jenkins. Yeah.

unknown 1:47:59

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:01

Yeah, I'm I'm pretty sure it was Judge Jenkins.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:04

Even then even their their defense teams. How how can how does someone work for Lindsay Clancy? How do you even like even if you were appointed, you know, as you can be appointed a defense? If you are that lawyer would be like, this is not happening. Not fucking happening, guilty, shut your mouth, not doing it, lose my job, don't care. Not doing it, not doing it. It's like defending Hitler. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:32

Money, money, money, money. Money, money, money.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:36

Like I said, over the next couple of years, you know, you still gotta you go back to job as as a cop, you go back to living the police life, and you still gotta do the policing thing. So I'm sure you're arresting people and dealing with traumatic scenarios more traumatic scenarios and doing all this, but then also now you've got all this court stuff that's gotta come up, and you I'm sure you're in and out of dealing with this and presenting evidence and all that jazz. That I'm sure that's all taking a toll and reliving that that you know the the face of that that child.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:10

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think there was only like two months later when there was a bomb threat at the hospital, actually, after that incident. Was there? I remember dealing with that one. That was a good that was interesting. But um, yeah, we got called out to a potential bomb that was sighted at the Royal Perth Hospital. So my partner and I get called in. So we go there, apparently he came in with a suitcase, and we got to the the nurses show us his room, so we got to his room and then I look through his suitcase um uh after asking him if I can go through it, and then he goes, Yeah, and then you see like a little pipe bomb. And I've gone, oh shit. So I said to my colleague, we need to call bomb squad, we need to evacuate. So prior to doing that a hospital too. Royal Perth hospital.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:11

How do you evacuate a hospital?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:13

I know. It was like two there was a floor that we're on, the floor above and the floor below. So that's what we had to do at the well, that's what the decision was made at the time. And but first, one of the guys from uh regional operations group, so another guy, another copper came to come do an evaluation or come to evaluate it. I said, and I pointed it to him, and he picks it up and just goes, tips it upside down. I'm gone, what the fuck are you doing? And he goes, Oh yeah, I think we'll need to evacuate. You think after you've just tipped it upside down, this residue is coming out. I don't even know what that is, but you need to put that down. You idiot. Um, and yeah, then bomb squad ended up coming out, and uh I don't know what the end result was in relation to that, but I know he got charged with something. Um but that yeah, that happened like not even a month, two months after that off-duty incident. But um, yeah, I just ended up kicking on and trying to, you know, do as best as I could, but then yeah, that's when my knee and my ankle, and that's where I ended up um where I was forced to sit with my feelings and forced to sit with um what happened, and that's when the uh PDSD side of things started settling in, as well as the depression, having my partner having to look after me, and I ended up gaining I think 19 kilos, so I was fat as fuck. So um, yeah, quietly. If you put a fucking photo up of me from the court appearances, I'm fucking coming for you. Please do not put those up. They are the most atrocious court appearance fucking photos in my life. Oh, yuck. Anyway, so um, so having to deal with all that and then yeah, because I couldn't, because I couldn't, yeah, because with my knee, because my knee and ankle was the same leg, I had to have re manipulation surgery because my leg wasn't doing the rehab it was supposed to, and then it ended up getting like stuck in a position. So then I had to get what the doctor explained it as is opening the knee back up, removing like the chewing gum side of the ligament and cleaning it out. And then you're on a you're pretty much on a a machine like this for like 72 hours after surgery. So um after that had happened, I couldn't walk far, I couldn't drive. So that's when essentially I had to get posted to a station closer to where I lived. Um, so I was working a little bit out of Forestfield Police Station for a little bit, and then that's when I put in for Armadale Police Station because that was close to where my husband um built his house. And that's when I transferred over to Armadale Police Station, and it was during my time there that I decided to put in for detective training. And I got in to detective training, and whilst I was at the academy, that's when the trial went ahead for this case, for the for Herbert's case. And I missed one day of trial, but then I had to go in and obviously give evidence and testimony when I was at the academy. And yeah, the day that I was going to give testimony, one of the lawyers was telling me that uh Herbert said that he was gonna try and play the Tard card. So try and act like a retard and didn't know what happened. So hearing that pissed me off because he's trying to claim that as a defense. Um but it didn't work essentially. So thank God it that didn't work and got thrown out. But yeah, um being confronted like when I went into the um uh the courtroom to give evidence, it was pretty confronting to see that all the back room was just completely all the seats were filled with just media.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:56

Was it?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:56

Yeah, I didn't yeah, I didn't like that. Yeah, it was all me. So I had the whole time I couldn't look at anyone whilst I'm giving testimony because I just I I was too nervous and I just couldn't look at anyone. So yeah, the whole back room was full of media. And then after I gave my testimony, pretty much the whole back chamber just got um uh they all left. So um, and then being confronted with the media at the front of the of the um the courthouse was yeah, it's not fun. Yeah. Um but yeah, that's when when I heard most of um the stuff I didn't know at the time in relation to the seven-year-old having severe autism and non-verbal about how the little that the little boy was there and how he um he said, Don't worry, I wouldn't have lit him up. And he said as well that the only reason why he set her on fire was because she was too beautiful. That was his excuse. I c I yeah, I can't understand that.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:10

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:11

I set her on fire because she was too beautiful. Eerie.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:21

Fucking eerie.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:25

Yeah, so um I had yeah, so during that time I was gone through detective training, I had three days left and then that was it. But then I ended up getting pulled aside by the OIC of detective training, who said we don't think that you're up to probationary standard, but we think you should come back and reevaluate in like 12 months time. And yeah, that pissed me off because I got through I think it's it's six weeks. Yes, it's six weeks. I only had three days left. I essentially passed everything. Well I thought I did, only to be told three days out, no, you're not um signing, you're not getting signed off as a probationary detective. So that felt like another stab in the guts. And um I won't forget the call that I made to my husband on the way home. I said, see, I just I fucking suck. I can't I can't get ahead in my career, I can't fucking put this behind me, trying to put it behind me. I don't know what the fuck to do. Um so then when I got back to Armadale Station, I I begged. I begged for a mentor um in uh with my detective training book. Uh one wouldn't one wasn't allocated to me um for whatever reasons. And I approached a female inspector, told her about how I want to develop, how I want to improve, tell me what to do, I'll do it. Um, and then she recommended that I go to the station that's just a just down the road, uh Gosnells Police Station, and that was probably like the worst move. That was the worst move for me. Um it's like three years ago. Yeah, yeah. Female boss here was horrible. Have you coped? She always made comments about my looks, always had something to say and recognise that it wasn't okay. I had an incident there where um um there was a disturbance happening in Cosmos. And I have such bitterness when I rocked up there, there was a boy he was gone off, and because he looked at me and he goes off. I got awarded the National Christmas slut or something award. And I've just gone in close proximity, and I said, Yeah, that's award that I've got to lunch that was intended as an 18 as if to stop him so but because of the height difference and I said to him and um pitch black. He was one that at that time standing for him was his mother from the Federation of Police camera. So I couldn't get in call and I said, Oh Steph, congratulations, it's um great and such from great federation of police. Um you're the first to be awarded strength. Every award and I said this is a fucking joke handy. But this is a scam. Like, who are you? This is a scam that ended up turning into a scene. And it's got some background going, no, no, no, it's it's um no, it's it's legit. And I'm and so I'm looking at him going on because I thought it was like a scam. Because I'd never heard of this award, I've never heard of who they were. And that I need to go. But um, someone nominated you for this award properly after being into North. And you might be standing sounds like he's standing right beside you. And I told and I said, Oh my god, okay. And I go, We'll be in contact with you, but we're gonna get you flown over to Canberra in um sitting in September, so next month. Yeah, we'll get you flown over next month and come to Canberra to receive your award. So then I get off the phone and I said, Scott, what the fuck was that? And he said, Well, um, I put your name forward because you deserve it. And I I still hadn't it has still hadn't sunk in yet. And then we get flown to Canberra and I meet Alan Sparks, who was on the committee for it. He's a um Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:53

He's got the Cross of Valor.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:54

Yeah, Cross of Valor. I met him and he he's a really nice guy. And he told me that um it was I was one of I think it was like 75 applicants or something like that. And I said, Well, who how many nominated me? And he goes, just your husband. I was like, what? So it was only just Scott that nominated me for that award, and we yeah, got flown over there. I got awarded by um Dutton. Dutton gave me my award, and the next day we got to go to the House of Representatives when um Bill Shorten and Scott Scomo got to have their little say in um Parliament House though. But I didn't get to meet Skojo, but got to meet um Bill Shorten. The funniest thing about that was do you remember when we had that incident where there was needles being found in strawberries?

SPEAKER_03 2:01:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Because we when we were going through I remember actually just on that when it was all happening, I remember buying strawberries and cutting every single one before we gave them to the kids, like cut every single one just like because we thought there was gonna be a fucking needle in there. Yeah, yeah. That was crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:15

Yeah, so Bill, well I remember sitting in his office and sat down with um Bill Shorten, and he he just starts talking about the strawberries because that was what was happening at the time. He goes, So what do you guys think is happening? And Scott was spot on. He goes, I think it's a disgruntled employee. And it was.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:33

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:34

Yeah, it was a disgruntled employee. But yeah, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the strawberries and um and then yeah, the next day I'm at How did your partner know that?

SPEAKER_03 2:02:48

It's like he's a de detective or something.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:51

Yes, he's an oh duh, I didn't get to you at the start. He's an arson detective.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:56

Is he? Yeah, right. Funnily enough. Oh shit. Is it what he's done most of his career?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:01

He's done it for the last eight years.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:02

Yeah, shout out, mate. Shout out to you.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:04

Yeah, he's good on you. He's very he's very good. I'm not just saying that because I'm his partner, but very good at what he does. But um, yeah, whilst we're at the then, and then the following day after the um we meet, we're at the Parliament House, I'm at the airport waiting to go home, and then I get a phone call, and it's um Commissioner uh Chris Dawson. And I was like, Oh, hi sir. And he goes, I just want to congratulate you and congratulate you on your award. Um when you fly back, um, I'm putting your name forward for the Commissioner's Bravery Award. I'd oh, thank you, sir. That's that's nice, thank you. And hung up the phone. And I don't know how I feel about that because I don't want to sound ungrateful.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:59

Um but they were jumping on the bandwagon.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:04

Yeah.

unknown 2:04:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:05

Whereas it should have been should have been, you know, they should have nominated you, so you know, you uh one of your inspectors or should have.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:12

And when this incident's happened, when this incident happened, Carl O'Canahan was the commissioner. I didn't get a phone call from him. I didn't get anything from anyone. Oh, going back though that night though, like the following day, I was getting lots of phone calls from inspectors, superintendents, I I can't even tell you all the names. But one thing I won't forget is this I'm gonna say superintendent, phone me up and he goes, Steph, congratulations. It's nice to have female no it's nice to have police in the media for doing something right for once. It's like okay, yeah, I'm doing good, thanks. Like that's all you have to say. It's good to have police in the media for doing something good for once.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:05

I not hey, Steph, great job. You smashed it. Nah. That's what police officers should be doing, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Um when I got that phone call from the commissioner, even though it was nice, it's it's kind of like okay, well, three years, three years has passed since the incident happened. It's nice to be recognized, but it's come three years too late. Three years too late where I've had to try and process these things myself, and at not one point has someone taken notice and gone, shit, is she okay? You know, not not once. Apart from probably my colleagues and that, maybe my good sergeant, like one of my one of my two sergeants, was very, very good. But you'd you'd think that, yeah, I don't know. I don't people that congratulate you for your medals or your recognition of metas and say, Oh, you're a hero, or you're um what an honour. To me, it it's it doesn't feel that way, that it's not the right word because I have like I said, three years too late because I've processed so much in between that time, it almost feels like it's not the right way to say it. I don't know, you know what I mean? No, I get it, yeah. It doesn't feel right. So yeah, then I yeah, then got the um after the Australian award and then the uh commissioners award. And then what year is that, 2018?

SPEAKER_03 2:06:50

Yeah, 2018. So you're at uh Armadale police station.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:56

Go back to normal policing, doing your thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:59

Yeah, then I went to um yeah, I oh yeah, um that was like Armadale Family Violence team at that time. Because after that award, that's kind of when the chain reaction started happening. That's when I started to get um then I had to go I had an interview with the current affair, and then it was when's Women's International Emergency First Responders Week. I was in the Women's Weekly for that. So th there was a big period there where it was all just happening at once, and then it then it slowly just then it slowly died down. And um yeah, then I went on maternity leave, had my little girl, and it was a hard pregnancy with her because she's been through the through the absolute wars, that poor thing. Like she's had three surgeries already, she had severe colic. Um and I think that when you go through um having a baby as well, that's I was in remission with my symptoms with my PDSD and uh MDD. But I think with the on offset of your hormones changing, the sleep deprivision, your loss of identity, um trying to figure out new routines, you're not having much family support, it just everything just started to go to shit again. And my poor partner copped the absolute crazy cow of a woman that I was and um and it was when I was meant to go back to work because I only had maternity leave for a year, and then it was during that time that I was supposed to go back to work in October 2022, and I went to health and welfare because I told them that I wasn't coping, and I went to the um health and welfare doctor Perto, and I said to her, I don't think I'm coping. I haven't coped for a long time. Um, I'm gonna be upfront and honest. I haven't been um fully upfront and honest in the past because of sc I'm scared of what it was gonna do than my career. I'm scared that the opportunities were gonna be taken away if I was gonna be upfront and honest. I said, I'm I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you and say that I'm okay because I'm not. I've even got on my phone um my departure letter from my husband and my daughter. And she looked at me and no word of a lie. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and get on with it.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:04

And is that what she said?

SPEAKER_01 2:10:06

That's what she said. This is the police doctor. That's why I said Perto. Um she she says that she didn't say it, but she did, because I have documentation of me going on a full blown email wars with all my treating doctors saying I need to have an appointment, this is what was just said to me, I'm not coping, this is how I'm getting treated. Um, and she also made reference when we're talking about depression, she also made reference with that. That's one someone easily can get over as well. But I've spoken to lots of coppers from then from now on, and apparently they've gone through similar um conversations as well. And when I walked out of the office that day after I told her about the suicidal ideation, um, and not being taken seriously about the how I'm feeling and how I'm not in a good headspace to return to work, um, that's when I went to my psychologist and my psychiatrist and who made the recommendation for uh medical retirement. So then that started to get put into place in January 2023. And that took three years. So I've only just been medically retired January this year. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:31

So since 2015 it was just a bit of a fucking spiral. Yeah. Spiral of everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:38

It it it is a lot to take on. It is a lot to take on, and um the circumstances that surround the whole scenario. It's something you'll never forget. But pretty pretty disappointing to see. And again, you're not the first. It's pretty disappointing to see how the police deal with this these issues. And you're not again, you're not the first. I hear this so many times. I've had cops on and I had a cop on that had a noose around his neck and he fell asleep on a couch and he woke up and he's like, Oh fuck, I better not do this. I have I've had other cops with pistols in their mouths on shift and it was never treated correctly. Like I don't I don't get this.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:23

No, you get treated as though it's something it's almost like you're the default, like something wrong with you. Like you can't cope. There's something wrong with you. We'll just replace you and go on to the next person. Yeah. Next b I mean, because you are you're you're a number, you're replaceable the next day. That's that's that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:42

I shouldn't look at it like that though, because it's it's you know, it's it's a cost thing too, isn't it? I'm a taxpayer. Last thing I want is some fucking cop not getting treated. I want to see a cop that's treated and looked after for the next 20 years on the job. Yeah, they stay in the job for 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:56

That's what I want. I don't want a new cop coming in. It's gonna cost the taxpayer more money, put more people to the academy. You know, it's um but also for for mental health, like for the health of the for the cops.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:07

Like uh Well, that's all they want. They just want to feel like they're supported and heard, and you and you're not supported and you're not heard, you get treated. I mean, I was looking over some of the documents before I came here, and I got told and reading the documents about I I don't have PDSD apparently. According to them, I have adjustment disorder, which adjustment disorder is essentially the same symptoms as PDSD. However, when you remove yourself from a stressful situation, those symptoms disappear pretty much. That that's adjustment disorder. If you're struggling to adjust to a situation or whatever, so if you remove the situation, so remove me from Waypole, then you're gonna be okay, you're not gonna have a disorder anymore. Anyway, that's that's kind of how I interpret it anyway. But where else I go on with that. What does what I don't understand about that is that they pay for when I was in the police and I was on these medications for PDSD and MDD, they were covering the costs for it. So it's so for them to turn around and say, Oh no, she doesn't have major depressive disorder. It's like, well, you were paying for my medications, so you can't fucking turn around and say you didn't know you weren't aware, because you've been paying for my medications since 2018. It just it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:39

Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely doesn't. Definitely doesn't. And you know, again, I I I see it coming from the military world. Yeah, we've had, I don't know, two and a half thousand suicides since 2001 or something like that. Some fucking madness. Like it's just I'm I'm not understanding it. I just don't get it. I don't get it how they treat people and these governments and the commissioners and hierarchy. A lot of them are weak guarded individuals.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:09

And you know what? You find that those are the ones that are running away from their own issues as well. Yeah, exactly. You know, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Someone who has put their hand up, gone and got help, and said, Yeah, I've had a trauma, I've been exposed to a traumatic incident. I know what tools and what coping strategies work for me. I'll happily work alongside that person than the one that's in denial. The one in denial is more dangerous. Because the one that's gone through the help, he knows the tools and strategies. He knows how far he can push himself before going, oh Bali's. I gotta, I gotta cut it here. I I need to do this strategy. You know what I mean? Or I need to uh apply this tool. Um and that's what these bosses forget. They think they they hear these words like trauma and PTSD and um TBI, and they think uh that they're they're a lost cause. They're not. Just give them the healing, give them the path to recovery.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:12

Yeah, help them maintain a healthy life. Like you've got to live alongside of PTSD, not you can't get rid of it, it just doesn't disappear.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:20

No, absolutely, and that's a hundred percent right. But but it's it's a multi-million dollar company, isn't it? That's it. Keeping people sick.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:26

That's it. That's yeah, it's all insurance companies, isn't it? It's there's a lot of private companies making a lot of big bucket out of uh out of police officers and first responders in general, fiery's handbows, yep, nurses, doctors, yep, all the lot. It's funny why the reason why they probably won't change to a Department of Veteran, you know, DVA style. Because it is big investors and in these insurance companies that are making bank out of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:52

I want people to stay sick.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:53

It wouldn't surprise me. Wouldn't it not fucking surprise me?

SPEAKER_01 2:16:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:57

Um You know, I've only been just doing this, we've been doing this podcast for and a half hours, and I'm I'm fucking just pissed off with this dude. Like it's it's fucking burning me right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:10

Fucking tell. How far is this present? I can tell. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 2:17:14

Like a oh fuck, I just don't get it. I don't get it. Like you said earlier, like parents are meant to be the ultimate protectors for their kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:25

The ultimate protectors. Give my life my kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:29

Same. Fucking same. Yeah. Those weren't even my kids. No, I'm the same, yeah. Yeah. And I should also mention as well, even though I've said that the mum got a lot of um scrutiny um in the media about how she should have gone in there and why didn't she go in there and get help and blah blah blah. Let's not forget that she came outside and screamed for help. She did what she could. Yeah. Um, so I just got hacked up. Yeah, exactly. So I just wanted to mention that. Like she she received and copped a lot of hate on social media, whereas she did what was absolutely right.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:09

Um you did what was extended instinctive as well, because of your training, because of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:15

A police officer.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:17

You hear danger, you run towards it. That's what police officers do.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:22

Bondi. Cops ran to the towards gunfire.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:25

Cops do this everywhere. They hit gunfire, they go towards it.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:28

There's not many other jobs where you've got to run towards the enemy.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:33

It's um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:34

That's what you're told. That's 100% true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:41

Where's the prison?

SPEAKER_01 2:18:44

I don't know. I just want to just say good age. I just want to say hi, just sign in and say good day.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:49

Just want to say good day to the prison officers. Free merch packs for anyone out there. Um so I guess that kind of leads us up to the current day. You know, you're you're you've just now, you know, as of January this year, completely separated from the police. How are you traveling now? Obviously, uh, you know, I see you on social media and you're doing a bit of boxing now, just punching on with people.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:20

Yeah, and that's you know that's you know what? Anyone that doesn't do martial arts or doesn't do boxing, it's anyone who sees it thinks it's such a violent sport. You know what? It's the most calming, peaceful, violent sport ever, if that makes if that even if that even makes sense. It's peace and the violence, if that yeah, if that connects. Um and I did compete in kickboxing when I was 19, um, and I did a do a bit of jiu-jitsu throughout my policing career, but um boxing I essentially started in 2018 when I was a fat when I was a fat fucker after that appearance. Don't even look it up, please. Fucking fat cunt. Um seriously, I can't even look at the photos, but it was essentially just for a bit of because I've always loved martial arts. Um, but lately it's been my absolute go-to. It's the only thing that clears my head. Um, because it's the only thing in the moment where you don't have your phone on you, you have to be fully focused on what you're doing, and you feel so good after you do it. So yeah, I have been um competing a little bit. Um I've honed it back lately because I've just changed gyms recently. Um and there's a masters, um, there's the world um world emergency masters, uh, sorry, world emergency games next year that's actually going to be here in Perth. Oh, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so everyone around the world and emergency services is competing and boxing's actually in it. So I'm working my way towards the boxing tournament that's happening. It'll be a Mandra. Uh, I think it's March next year. Yeah, hopefully don't take on any SWAT um American girls or anything. We'll see. But um, yeah, no, box boxing's the only go-to at the moment. Um, obviously um raising my little girl, like seeing her absolutely thriving, she's awesome. And uh good kids. Oh, she's it's honestly she's awesome. Want another one, but I think Hubby's too traumatized to have another one. But as I said to him, you're not you're not gonna have a choice. It's yeah, you're not gonna have a choice in the matter. But um yeah, studying psychology. But as far as since getting out, um not gonna lie, it's been a really hard transition with the um the identity thing. Um because you know, policing's all I've known since I was 21. I'm turning 40. 40 in two weeks.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:23

That's half that's half an 80. Just letting you know. I get it, trust me. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:31

I don't know. It's like, where's my life gone? You know, and that's the other thing too. Like, I wish I started boxing when I was like younger because I'm really loving it. But I'm I'm too I'm essentially I'm too old to do the amateurs, so I have to go into the masters events now. But there's not many women in in boxing. Nah. No, the the last uh the girl that I usually compete against, I've fought her twice now. So there's not many in your weight division, let alone in the in the age bracket. You have to travel interstate in order to do it. Um, but yeah, the the identity thing is um I'm having a tough time with, to be honest, because I do feel like I'm out of the loop. And I briefly mentioned before about with um mateship. It's I've only got like one copper mate now. Whereas I don't know, I I've listened to a couple of your podcasts and you've got some great, great people that have come onto the show, and you hear about, you know, once they get out and the mates and the mateships and the bonds that they still have. I policing, I don't I I don't know if anyone can relate, but policing, as soon as you're out, it's all it's almost like, oh no, you're out, um don't want anything to do with you anymore. So that's been the hardest is people that you thought were your mates aren't. And essentially you do get treated like you are an outsider because you no longer have the badge anymore. Um and even though psychology is where I want to pursue things, I can't help but feel like, is is that where I want to go? So what's next? I don't know. I don't know. Anyone got any jobs for me out there? I don't know. Yeah, like I I don't know. Anything's possible. Anything's possible because I've always been the type of person a solicitor for the good guys. Oh my god, a solicitor? No, not smart enough for that.

SPEAKER_03 2:24:30

Oh psychology's gotta be bringing in in in depth.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:34

It's yeah, it's hard. It's all yeah, well, it's all about terminologies and referencing and it theories and oh it's it's just death by theories and referencing, which is I don't like about um about the units, but it is interesting, don't get me wrong. It's just I'm more of a people person. I've always been I think that's probably why I got into the police to begin with, is I've always been a pe a a people watcher. I've always been curious about why people do what they do. I noticed the subtleties in what in people, like I know if something's off, like if I could toot my own horn, that's probably the only thing I was able to really focus on in the police. Like if someone's behaviour or slight change of body language, I was able to to know that something bad or good was gonna happen next. I yeah, I don't yeah, I don't know. So I think psychology is the distraction at the moment, whether it be my next career move, hopefully, but I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:37

Has it made just just quickly on that, on the psychology, has it made you see, you know, your last few years of you know, when you were spiralling out of control somewhat make you understand the brain in that capacity?

SPEAKER_01 2:25:54

Yeah, no, yeah, it no, it does. It does give you a big situational awareness to that. Um, and the cognitive development of why people do what they do, especially after trauma, stress, anxiety, and how what the body does in order to cope, it's it's very interesting. That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:13

Yeah, because I I think a lot of people I've you know, I've I've been to been to sessions and you know, the psychologist would say it's your body, it's not you doing it, it's just how the body copes. There's mechanisms in the body that overrides your brain, overrides everything. It just does it. Yeah. Because that's just what it does. Just like adrenaline.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:35

Pumps adrenaline when you when it thinks you need it.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:37

Yeah. And it's the narrative and the story that you tell yourself as well. That's the that's the biggest, that's the biggest indicator. It's what's your perception and the story uh that you tell yourself, you know, like if it's if you're bad about yourself, it's I'm a fucking failure, I'm fucking shit, I'm fucking this. And then when you start thinking that, that's when your body starts to react with I don't know what shakes, hot hands, flushes, you know, dep depending on the person. But yeah, it's inter it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:08

Yeah, I I think it is, especially again, like the psychology of that fuckwit.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:16

Yeah, drugs. He was on drugs as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:20

Was he on drugs at that at that point?

SPEAKER_01 2:27:21

Yeah, he was on um meth meth and chemical.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:24

Oh, so it was fucking a drug-induced psychosis.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:27

Yeah, but just still, I mean, how how many people are on drugs and wouldn't do that?

SPEAKER_03 2:27:33

Oh, 100%, yeah. No, no, I get it. It's already in his system. Like that hate, that evil was already in his system. 100%. I get that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:40

He was um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:41

The drugs just amplify.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:42

Yeah, but he was possessed, man. He was How do they like I don't get it?

SPEAKER_03 2:27:46

Like the again, do they teach this in the psychology world? Like, how does someone snap? Snap. Like again, like the Lindsay Clancy thing. Like she wasn't on drugs or anything.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:58

Um like how does someone's brain just turn into fucking evil?

SPEAKER_01 2:28:04

Yeah, I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:28:05

That evil.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:06

I know. Um I don't get it. I'm only my third year, so I know. I was probably wrong. I'm I'm not qualified for this.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:15

How many times you would have heard that as a police officer? I'm a third-year uni-degree fucking law student. I'll tell you how it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:22

All the time.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:24

I'm in my first year. I know, I'll tell you the law, all right.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:28

Enclosed lands act.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:29

Yeah. Actually, you know, I think I think that move I notice story I was telling you before, I think he was a lawyer. One of them I was thinking about. But no, yeah, came across people like that all the time.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:42

I'm a lawyer. You can't do that. I'm like, I okay, you want to play that? Or solverant citizens at the best?

SPEAKER_03 2:28:49

Yeah. Well, if there is a psychologist out there listening, which I'm probably sure there isn't a thing of fuck these these people are fucking retarded.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:58

Steph Bukovsky, Bachosky can't fucking say a stupid name.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:02

If there is someone out there, try and enlighten me in a in a DM on how these people just become where does it where does this like I'm I'm assuming we're all born somewhat the same. Our brains are developing the same, but where does that because you know how many evil two-year-olds have you seen? Three-year-olds.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:22

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:23

No, unless they're ISIS ones. But that's induced by their parents. But you know what I mean? Like you come into the world, I don't know, fuck, there must obviously chemical imbalance.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:33

There is such a thing as uh like um d DNA trauma. We learnt about that a while ago. Yeah, there is I mean, it's not to the extent of you know, you're born and want to kill. Like, I'm not talking that way or in that sense, but yeah, you are if so, say that your mother had like really severe depression or anxiety, and then you're born into the world, um you would have some of those symptoms and tendencies, unless you don't deal with them appropriately. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, just the same with like Dharma. Let's go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, Jeffrey. Dharma. Yeah, yeah. Who got him a good series? Yeah, yeah. But who got him into dissecting of the animals? Yeah. His dad. Yeah. What age was that? So that's what police do look into. If it's if you're um harming animals at a young age, they tend to pay close attention to that because that's tendencies to stepping it up later on on in life.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:32

Yeah, I don't know. I did. Not not what'd you do? Oh like hunting, you know, hunting pigs and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:39

Oh, well, yeah, but that's different.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:40

But it was also fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:41

I'm talking about trauma, like like doing picking up picking off like the wings off a fly and then burning it with a match and what you've never done that? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:50

I've done that.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:54

And then go into the next one.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:55

Yeah. We've all done that. Well, boys, most boys have, but yeah, no, I get it. Like if you're like torturing a dog or something as a five-year-old be like, and think it's hilarious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get that. Yeah, fuck the fly.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:09

That was the only that was the that's the only thing I could think of in the moment. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:14

Still do that now. I'll send you a picture next time. Fucking please do, please do. Oh, someone will whinge.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:21

You could be my case study, you could be my case study. Is this okay?

SPEAKER_03 2:31:25

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. If there's someone out there that can enlighten us, please reach out because I just don't get it. I don't get it. It's funny, like, I saw a picture of uh it's probably a couple years ago now, of Osama bin Laden's son, and he's fully dressed up in like this gothic outfit and he lives in the United States or something, and or in Saudi Arabia or something. I don't know. He just looks like a normal dude and pretty much is like, oh, I fucking hate my dad. You know what I mean? My dad's a piece of shit, which is fair.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:51

Next minute.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:52

But you know, like, and I'm sure he Hitler was a lovely young kid, you know, as a two-three oh, maybe like a cute little baby. He was a cute little baby once upon a time, then turned into a fucking dirt bag, piece of shit, psycho, evil, and this is what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:07

You know what? I'm probably gonna have to go away and research this.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:11

Yeah, it's making me think now.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:12

It's making me think now, because surely there has to be some sort of disconnect that I don't know, some can't pitch your little baby Hitler either. Know what I mean? I I can.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:24

He's just got the shit haircut and a little mustache. We'll stay clear of the talk, we'll end up in prison.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:33

Oh yeah, you're gonna go see him, mate? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:39

I know, yeah. But in fairness, it was the highest penalty ever handed down in district court. What he got still free. Yeah. Highest penalty, and that's the highest penalty ever handed down in district court.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:53

That should be the minimum.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:54

I know. Now now the words are coming out of my mouth. I'm like, ever?

SPEAKER_03 2:32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:00

I know. But still.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:04

Surely a judge can override that and just go, you know what, bro, like that's longer. That's at least ninety. You're already 40. I'll give you 90. Just to make sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:16

Yeah. Absolute menace. Anyway, we we went we went completely off track to fucking torturing flies.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:25

I should have used the fly analogy. I should have picked something else.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:28

And I was like, everyone does it for flies, Jesus. Fucking pest. Uh, I guess that moves on to the last couple of final questions, you know, I always ask with those podcasts. And I think, you know, this last, you know, the first question of these last questions what advice can you give to people? Just keep on keeping on, complete any goal you set your mind to, and just to crush it in life. And you know, for you, more moving on past or you know, working with your PTSD, you know, I've I obviously see that boxing has become part of that and study as well because it's keeping your mind active and you're obviously doing a lot better now. Yeah. So, you know, what advice can you give? And I'm sure there's someone out there, maybe a cop that's going through it right now, just going, fuck, just up against the wall at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:16

Yeah, and you know, when you're stuck in the thick of it, um and you're stuck in your head in in those moments, and I've been there, you know, I've been there with the suicide and suicidal ideation, you just have to change with your perception of what's not working now to what I guess. Um You need to you need to keep yourself motivated in what makes you happy. So whether that be, I don't know, taking walks, whether it be painting, whether it be uh sports, um, reconnecting with family and friends, um everything needs to have a balance and you gotta adjust and you gotta you make sure that you focus on those things first before you can get yourself right. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 2:35:33

Um Yeah, I get it, I get it. Find the things that that suits your way of moving forward. Find a hobby, find, you know, if you if you want to reconnect with your friends, reconnect with your friends and find purpose.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:55

Yeah, and you know, that's so hard to get out of as well sometimes when when you're really stuck in it, and it's like it's it's so easy to say just go catch up with mates and whatnot. But sometimes it just takes a phone call, sometimes it does just take stepping out of your comfort zone because it you need to want to create change and you need to want to change the narrative to what you were doing before, to if you want to be on that path to recovery, if you want to be on that path of being better, and I and essentially that's kind of where it changed for me. Like after I had my daughter, I couldn't be the miserable mum. In a pile of shit on the floor in a heap. What good is that for me? What good is that for her? That's I'm not gonna be a mother to her if she's gonna be seeing and being exposed to that. So you need to, like I said, you need to think, I need to be a better person, not just for me, but for my family, for my partner. If you don't have a partner, that's okay. You need just to find something that makes you feel good. So yeah, if it's not connecting with friends, get into a sport that you love, get into a club that you like, it could be anything. Um, yeah. That would be the best thing I can think of.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:27

Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:32

Yeah, it's a it's a hard one.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:34

It is.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:35

It is a hard one because everyone's so different.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:37

It is, yeah, 100%, 100%. You know, it's it's it's it's you know, you gotta take responsibility as well for yourself. But also your friends reach out. Reach out to your friends. If you haven't heard from so-and-so for so long, just reach out to them. Hey mate, how are you? How's everything going? And if you're in a le even in a leadership role, reach out to your troops. Hey Johnny, how you doing, mate? Uh you've just uh I know you just did a a death message for that for that uh 10-year-old child. How are you feeling, mate? You all good? Yeah, mate, yeah, no, I'm sweet. I'm sweet and I you know it did affect me, but um thanks for asking. Thank thank you. You know what I mean? Like just it's pretty easy. Doesn't cost anything, doesn't cost anything less than ten five minutes of your time.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:25

No, and those conversations are so fucking important too. And I think it's like I don't want to be intrusive, it's it's taking notice. If you know your mates, and like you said, good example there with the troops. It's like if you noticed Johnno is looking a bit down, he's not as bubbly as he usually as he usually is. That's all you have to do to to promote that that conversation about hey Johnno, you you're not looking as bubbly as you usually are. Is everything all right? That's all you need to say. Yeah, you just need to acknowledge something, and and then that will usually get the response that you want because that person will see that you've taken notice of something. Yeah, you know, and it takes as little it takes as little as that.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:06

Yeah. You right, Johnno? Yeah, mate. I'm just fucking hung over.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:10

Yeah, just fucking hungry.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:11

Just just celebrated the Brisbane Lions winning.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:13

Oh, god.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:14

I don't even like AFL that much.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:15

Yeah, me neither. I'm not even an I'm not even a free man, I'm surprised.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:18

I'm a mighty it's one of those state things, you know. Fuck I hate every estate, Queensland, Queenslander. Um, second question, what scares you most in life? Sounds like letting down your your daughter and your and your husband.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:33

Yeah, I just and this is gonna sound so morbid, but even to this day, I just I do feel like I'm a massive failure. I did I joined the cops with every set and intention of what I wanted to do, and I didn't get to accomplish it. So I feel a massive um not just a loss of identity, a loss of myself. Um I've lost um I've got I've come out of it and been damaged. So um I am fearful that I'm gonna let not just myself down, but my daughter, and I don't want her, as I mentioned before, having to need to go to get therapy because mum's broken. So that's why I'm real that's why I try to work on myself as much as I can to see what is the next chapter now. Because essentially I'm just a civvy now that I'm out of the cops um and not working. Yeah. What career path am I gonna go on next? It's it's scary. You'll figure it out. It's scary.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:39

You know, uh there's a key word you said there, chapter. That's all the policing was. That's all my military career was, that's all my private security career was. It's just a chapter of my life. There's a lot of guys getting on the podcast now. Like uh another guy that had on here in Perth, uh, Tom, former NZSAS, went through some traumatic stuff. The dude almost died a million times. Bullets flying past his head, blowing up multiple times. He's like, and I'm like, oh why do you want to go on a podcast? He goes, That was the previous chapter. That's over now. I move on with life. Simple.

SPEAKER_06 2:41:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:19

I think it's simple anyway. And I get it though, yeah. I'm still thinking about little baby Hitler. Isn't he cute? He's not, he's an arsehole. He could have been a little arsehole too.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:32

If you could go back in time knowing what you know now, I would have kicked his mum in the guts. No, no, the baby, would you have killed the baby?

unknown 2:41:40

No.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:41

I would kicked his mum in the guts for sure. Kicked her down the stairs.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:44

Pushed her down the stairs. She just fell.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:48

Miss Gilsey. Um people go, fuck. I'll probably get pulled up. You're still thinking about Herbert. I can tell you. I know. I can say that.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:59

What a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_03 2:42:02

It's and look, it's funny because again, I've had so many cops on the podcast, and there's been so many stories like this where the offender just gets to what not it gets away with it, but they get to live their lives comfortably in a prison cell, because we know what prison cells are like these days. They're quite comfortable. Not that I know. I know what a watch house looks like.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:26

But I think most of you army boys know what a watch house is.

SPEAKER_03 2:42:30

When I got arrested too much. And at schoolies. Um, but multiple cops I've had on the podcast, and they've always had there's just always been one that's just fucking multiple that have just grinded me. Like you know, I had a uh Detective John Bretter on from New South Wales um work for the child abuse squad. And crazy story. And for the listeners out there, head back and listen to uh Detective John Bretter's podcast. Um yeah, I I this is completely side to everything, but it's just just another story anyway. This girl was getting raped by a stepfather, and I think he's in prison, he must be in prison. I'm sure he's in prison. But she was keeping all her underwear in glad wrap bags and put all the dates on it and put it in a safe. And then obviously when John came, you know, we was all investigating all she's like, Oh, this is the pass over this safe, and just the the it just makes me think of this the the three-year-old, you know, the the trauma they gotta live with for the rest of their lives. Like it's just and it fucking just angers me.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:32

Yeah, that's what I hate about it too.

SPEAKER_03 2:43:35

Fuck this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:38

Because I didn't even get to to tell you about um when I was pregnant and did an internship with um child assessment interview team. Because I'm a um child interviewer as well. Oh shit. Yeah, yeah. So I um just quickly I had a I was interviewing um because you gotta go do your week internship out of it's called Kate. So anyone that's ever or any child that's ever been sexually abused or anything like that, it's not just any cop that can interview, you have to be specialized in interviewing, and my god, it's hard. It's so hard. I'd it's e it's far easier to interview a suspect than it is a kid.

SPEAKER_03 2:44:22

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:23

Um and before I get into this as well, is any parent out there, please teach your kids the right terminologies. It is penis and it's vagina. Because the amount of times that I've inter I've had to interview kids and they you they use incorrect terminology because parents say, Oh, it's your cookie or it's your fire engine or whatever, you have to negate that in interview first before you can go on to actually discussing the offence. So always identify the correct terminology. God forbid anything was to ever happen to any child. But you've got to learn the correct terminology. Anyway, when I was um pregnant and I interviewed a um, she was a gorgeous indigenous girl, who would have been about seven, and she she came in because she was getting inappropriately touched up by I think it was her boyfriend's partner, but she was in prison and he was looking after the kids while she was in prison. And after we I won't go into discuss what we're talking about, but after we um we finished um talking, she she pointed to my belly and she goes, Oh, what's um is it a what what are you having? I said, I'm having a little girl. And she goes, and she goes, What's her name? And I said, Oh, her name's gonna be Anne Marie. And she goes, Oh, sh that's beautiful. And I said, Yeah, it is beautiful. And she goes, Yeah, I'm ugly and fat. It's a seven-year-old calling herself ugly and fat, and then she starts like looking at me with her eyes down. I said, You are not ugly and fat. Don't ever tell yourself that because you're not you're beautiful the way you are. But then when she walked away after that, it cut sick at me because one of the um investigators told me that um that's how it was coercing her and gaslighting her, telling her how ugly and how um fat she was all the time, stuff like that, but really like killing her confidence. And oh yeah, it's just absol it pisses me off that there are people out there that just prey on the vulnerabilities of children, and I can't I I'm glad I guess it's a good thing that I'm out because I I I can't deal with with that. I can't deal with even just just hearing her saying that. It just oh yeah, when she said that, it's like nah. Yeah, fucking I need to get this interview right so I can put this dirt bag away.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:05

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, shout out to all the cops out there dealing with all the the child abuse squads.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:12

I'm not sure what they call it out here, but yeah, child child abuse, they go through some horrible, horrible stuff and the stuff that they have to sit through and watch. Watch. Yeah, that's just yeah, fucking it's just yeah, I I don't know how any of them do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:25

I don't know how they watch it and then you just put these people in prison. You I know I don't know. How do you not watch it and then go put these people in a grave? Like that's that's the reason why I'm not a cop.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:39

I used to think that too. Um but then you want to get it right because if you were to fuck up the case, then there's no I mean, justice is a funny word, essentially as it is anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:53

It's never just, is it?

SPEAKER_01 2:47:55

It's never just. But if you do do that, that person's gonna be essentially let off, and then there's gonna be another victim down the road if you don't treat that case the same thing. So yeah, I try yeah, trust me. There's been instances there where you're in a room with a pedophile or uh yeah, someone and you decide, I want to uh just leave me in the room with them, turn the cameras off for two minutes. You do, but then this but then you have something that takes over. It's like no, you need to get it right.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:25

That's the reason why you're a police.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:26

Well, not anymore. Well, yeah, we'll see I can do it now if you want.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:30

But that's the reason why you're police, because that's that that is the role. Leave it to uh other people.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:37

John Wick. John Wick. Um yes. Um they just killed his dog when he went on a rampage. No, I I get it.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:46

I get it, but I had skills like John Wick too. I'd do it too.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:50

Uh third question. Tell us something about shoe that people don't know. Guilty obsession.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:56

Food or he could have gave me these heads-up questions. No, that's the only reason why I do it. Oh my god. Something someone doesn't know about me. Oh. Like anything? Yeah, anything.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:11

Something that I enjoy or yeah, food or I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:15

It's gonna throw my partner under the bus.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:18

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:21

Um, do sorry mate. Not that he knows that was no the um sicko. Um when um I was younger, because I was obviously mum's I was mum, yeah. I'm gonna say it, I was mum's probably favourite. Um, we were inseparable, and we always used to sit on the couch and tickle each other. Like that's how we calmed each other down. Like we just tickled each other or tickled our arms, or she'll tickle my feet. My number one favourite thing to do every night is Scott tickling my feet. And he does it because he knows that calms me down. Yeah, he he knows that when I'm highly strung, stressed out, whatever, it's not back rubs, it's not messages, it's foot tickles. Yeah, yeah. So he touches my gross feet every night. Shout out to you, Scott. Like, thank you for touching my gross big long feet. Yeah, that's that's the that's the thing I look forward to every night is after she goes down to bed. It's like, oh, get my foot tickles.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:36

Yeah. Shout out to you, Scott.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:40

Shout out, thank you, Bob. I love you.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:42

The foot doctor. Um fourth question. Favourite movie TV show. What are you what are you watching?

SPEAKER_01 2:50:50

Favourite movie. Oh, who doesn't love their favourite war movie? I love my war movies. Like, I love it. Um love it. Um, what are we watching at the moment? We just finished watching Reacher. I don't mind don't mind a Reacher. TV show? Yeah. I haven't watched it. Well, it's good. The humour's good. I I really like the humour. So yeah. Um, anything like that or True Crime Um series, but yeah, Reacher.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:19

Chicks love TrueCon.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:21

I know.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:21

Like they watched like Jeffrey Dahmer and all these serial killer ones. Like, why are you all watching that? Like he just murdered 400 women and you're watching it. What was this is how you get murdered.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:32

Darma was just hungry.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:33

It was yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:34

Maybe that could be his let off. Maybe that could be his defense.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:37

Oh, I'm sure it'll pass these days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:41

Um, yeah, no, that's that's my favourite.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:44

What about a cop one?

SPEAKER_01 2:51:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:47

Brooklyn 99.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:49

Yeah, I've watched that. I've watched that on repeat a few times.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:52

Chicago PD?

SPEAKER_01 2:51:53

Chicago P no.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:54

I like it.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:55

No. What about Dexter? Do you like Dexter?

SPEAKER_03 2:51:59

Dexter was good, yeah. The original one.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:01

Yeah. Did you have you watched the resurrection ones? No.

SPEAKER_03 2:52:03

Is it good?

SPEAKER_01 2:52:04

Yeah. Oh, is that? Yeah. Really good. The resurrection ones are good. Interesting. There's a new one coming out too. Is there? Yeah. And we just finished watching Monster with um Lizzie Lizzie Barden. No Lizzie Barden. She was the axe killer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um that was yeah. That wasn't as good. Dharma, because I had, was it Dharma First or the um the the two brothers that got convicted of killing their parents and their parents were sexually assault uh molesting them. You haven't heard of that case? Oh, it's American. On Netflix. Yeah, but it's like a series and um it's true stuff, true story. Well, they try to interpret it.

SPEAKER_03 2:52:46

I can't watch them.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:52:47

I get too angry.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:52:49

I start ripping wings off flies.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:53

Well, that's okay, apparently. Um the yeah. That's that. Or oh god, people remember think of a fucking psycho or a thousand pound sisters. I watch that stupid shit. Yeah. I watch that have this. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, you know. You know.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:11

I haven't watched it.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:12

It's is it?

SPEAKER_03 2:53:14

Thousand Pound Sisters.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:15

You know, I heard it.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:16

I I've I've heard it, but I haven't got my way to watch it. It's on Netflix, is it?

SPEAKER_01 2:53:20

Um, new series has just come out on prime. Anyone that wants to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:25

Well, they do just eat.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:27

Well, they were a thousand pounds, and it's all just about their weight loss journey and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:32

Yeah, right. A thousand pounds that's like 500 kilos, isn't it? Oh, yeah, they were. That's a big mag.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:41

It's a triple quarter pounder, mate. Yeah, yeah, massive. So yeah. Um, but no, there hasn't been any movies out lately. But you know what? I actually did listen to your potty, like one of your potties the other day, um, and I had to watch um uh Hacksaw Ridge again.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:58

Oh, with uh Damon Thomason.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:00

Yeah, I did not know.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:03

What the just the what a legend. Yeah, exactly. And we you know, we speak about PTSD. Shout out to Tomo, he's an absolute mad dog. We we talk a bit. Um, but for him obviously to lose his legs in Afghanistan and then play a role in a movie where a dude loses his legs. Like there's no better, no better actor for it.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:24

Because he can he doesn't have to fake it.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:26

Yeah. No, it was really nice. But it's a good movie, too. Acting's fucking hard too, and he did really well. I loved it in his potty when he's talking about how he's saying to his missus that it's Mel Gibson, and he goes, Oh, who's she? But I I lost it, that was great. But yeah, no, that was a good podcast. But I had to I listened to that potty the other day on my movie and I had to watch it again because just to see where he was, I'm like, oh yeah. There he is, yeah. There he is. Yeah, oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:57

Um wild music. What are you what do you listen to? What's what's your go to?

SPEAKER_01 2:55:02

Oh, depends on the mood I'm in, um, especially when it comes to like boxing and that. But I like my indie, so I am big on iron and wine, um, Angus Julia Stone. Um who are these two American brothers that I've just started listening to lately that are amazing? Umstad, they're called.

SPEAKER_05 2:55:31

Yeah, never heard of them.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:32

Yeah, really, really good. Anything that's got to do with a nice guitar? I like.

SPEAKER_04 2:55:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:40

They're nice. Yeah. Like indie.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:43

Uh, for whatever reason people want to reach out to you, where can they find you? Social media? Insta?

SPEAKER_01 2:55:48

Yeah, insta I'm used, I'm just on Insta. I don't really use Facebook. No. Who uses Facebook anymore?

SPEAKER_03 2:55:53

Old people.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:54

Or you are old now.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:55

I fuck you. Yeah. Um, that's a good thing about Tune 40. You're going over to Bali for um boxing seminar for a week. Yeah, that's gonna be wicked.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:07

That'd be cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:56:08

Can't wait. But yeah, yeah, Insta.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:11

Insta.

unknown 2:56:11

Insta.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:12

Again, appreciate you uh coming on the podcast and you know sharing your story. I know we went off track a few times and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:56:18

That's the thing. You must have ADHD too.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:20

Talking about baby Hitler and ripping flies off people thinking, fuck these guys are psycho. They're the psychos, yeah. It's healthy psycho. Um, but yeah, then I really appreciate coming in and sharing the story because I know it's not hard. And you can see throughout your career, it's just it, you know, and you can see why you f feel like you haven't accomplished anything, but you have. You've did 16 years of policing. That that's an accomplishment, you know. And I'm sure there's hundreds of jobs in in between all that that you know again for a for an officer, that's just an a regular everyday character. What a domestic yen? Oh, here we go again. You know, a stabbing. Oh another one. What's that? What's that?

SPEAKER_06 2:56:58

Yeah, yeah, a fight.

SPEAKER_03 2:57:00

Oh, yeah. That that happened like three hours ago. We'll do another one. But I love getting cops on to share their stories because it just shows the real side of humanity and the the decline of it, yeah. The way we're going.

SPEAKER_01 2:57:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:57:16

But also that it it's a tough role. It's a tough role. And I feel like this day and age, they're just recruiting anyone and everyone, and it's only going to backfire on us in the next five, six, seven, eight years' time.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:31

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 2:57:32

So I think the people that are listening, especially the, you know, the civvies out there that want to get into policing, this is a good way for them to, I guess, somewhat, you know, hear the first hand knowledge from a cop, from a cop, on what the realities are. Because again, the the social media platforms of all these Western Australia's not too bad. Their social media's pretty some stuff they put up is pretty gangster, which is good. It shows the real policing, but a lot of it is still pretty gay.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:58:01

Which it r recruits the wrong person.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:02

Yeah, like dance clips and stuff like that. Cringe.

SPEAKER_03 2:58:05

Yeah, which recruits the wrong person again, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:08

So what's even like what was the media? Oh, that no, there was a shit one that was posted out not long ago, and it's like, oh, you're a gamer. Oh, you're good at gaming. Oh, join the WA police. I'm like, what the fuck was that?

SPEAKER_03 2:58:21

I saw it, yeah. It doesn't make sense. I'm a good gamer.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:25

Okay, let's let's get a gamer to come join the police and let's get people to try and resolve and use your verbal jujitsu because that's pretty much what policing is. You need to be able to effectively talk down someone. I know. Well, well, you know, we live in a world with so much AI and social media and influences, I guess. That's exactly. Well, yeah, join the police them. I've never been big into video games, but what I can admit is the old Nintendo 64 game of James Bond. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:00

You know, when you said Goldeneye.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:01

Yeah, and when you used to go, I don't know which one it is, but it's when you go up behind the cellar, like you come now, you come out of the the toilet to mountables up top.

unknown 2:59:10

I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:11

I can't remember either. And you gotta bl and you've got to blow up the um the cylinders down below. That one. Yeah. But when you're coming out of the toilets and you're coming around the corner and there's some guard there standing at duty, I always, always, always used to pull out another forearm, zoom right into the arsehole, yeah, and shoot him in the asshole and watch him jump up.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:35

That's what I used to do.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:37

That's psychotic.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:38

It's psychotic.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:40

And you're also showing your age playing Gold Knight.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:43

I know. I know. Oh my god. I thought we were sharing here.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:51

No, again, appreciate you coming on, sharing your story, and yeah, we'll stay in contact and we'll get this potty out. And hopefully pe someone gets something out of this. And all it all all it takes is one person to get something out of it. And that's that that's the goal achieved.

SPEAKER_06 3:00:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:00:04

You know, prefer a hundred people get something out of it.

SPEAKER_06 3:00:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:00:06

But uh, I'm sure someone will. All right, well, enjoy.