THE DEBRIEF #29 Veteran Games - Hosted by Zero Limits Podcast Matty Morris with cohost Chris Katelaris aka Big Chocky with former guest Ep.188 Heston Russell

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It's time for the Zero Limits Podcast, hosted by Australian veterans. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world, we'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the kick to complete any goal you set your mind to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Um I come back to you, brother.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Sound, sound, sound, sound, sound, sound. Oh, all good, all good. Yep. Sounds good? Yep. Blink twice.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Blink twice if you need help. We've got our new producer here in the studio.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

New producer. You? What about the other one? You don't want to know.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Amy. I love that she blinks the whole face blink.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I need help.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Amy's off camera and we told her to blink twice if she needs help. And Amy blinks by going.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Her whole fucking face is blinking. All right. Zero limits of listeners. Debrief time. Jockey, how are you doing, mate? Well, thanks. No, good. We obviously just drove up uh here, the Sunshine Coast, all the way from I drove from Newcastle. Yeah. Picked you up. Yep. All the way here. We're tired. But side quest. We've come up here for a reason to head to Veteran Games. Yes, we have to. And we're here with the man, episode 188.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Heston Russell. Who's counting? Hello, gentlemen. Lovely to be sitting on the opposite end of a kitchen table from you staunch characters. But I appreciate you making the drive. I appreciate I'm out of arm's distance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

No, thanks for coming, mate. Like we we've been chatting for a long time now. And obviously that podcast you did with me, like we had such a great time at your place. And uh, you know, three and a half hours. It was good, it was three and a half hours.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

You know, I love the amount of people, particularly like cops and ambos and fieries that I, you know don't usually have an audience with or unknowingly, who like watch and listen to that and like devour your stuff. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

And they're good people, like they're the people you want to talk to. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yeah, exactly. Maddie's done great in capturing a really, really good quality. Yeah. Like just great people, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Well, it's just values alignment, eh? Exactly. And again, I've I love some of this. I'm like, hey, I didn't agree with everything you said, but I appreciate the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's beautiful stuff. Yeah, and obviously, like you know, coming on from your podcast, you know, I had um T-Bone on as well. T Bone obviously spoke about the man, the myth, the legend. Yeah, the helicopter incident with the actual shot. Yeah, that's it. The you know, the the JFK building. It didn't hit, but anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously that's the whole point of getting guys on like you to share the real story, Joe Len. First hand, exactly. Exactly right. Exactly. Less clickbait.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

But obviously, we're up here in uh Choctic Wings. For those who don't know, we've never met before. No, we haven't. I met it. It's actually much larger in person.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

I like it in the hole.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

You know that, Andrew Hastie. My arms feel small compared to Chocki. Oh, by the way, this is coconut water. This is not wine.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And this is zero limits. Oh, now it's now we're talking. Now, the reason why we're up here, we wanted to come visit Hesto, come see the veteran games because you've been putting this on for quite some time now. And yeah, four years. Yeah, four years. And like, let's let's let's crack off from the start of this. Like, where did this concept come in? And talk us what through vet games is.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Uh, yeah, no, the the legacy of it is so the veteran games came from. I obviously put everything on the line campaigning for the Royal Commission to Defense and Veteran Suicide, and we won that. And uh then I kicked into all my crap, taking the ABC to court. So 2022 ran for the federal election, assault charge two weeks before the election, naked pictures, ABC um defamation case, all this shit came out. My world got very, very small. I even lost all my money on the election, thinking we'd at least get enough money on the votes, move back into mums, all the rest. The world got very dark and quiet, and not a lot of people know about that. But so 2022 through to 2023, when we launched the Veteran Games, the interim report for the Royal Commission into Defense and Veteran Suicide came out. And it showed that the highest demographic of people taking their own life were young men and women under the age of 40, which is what I was at that time, who were still physically capable, but were suffering from a loss of purpose, a loss of community, and a loss of identity in that transition from defense. And there's fantastic initiatives like Invictus Games, that's for seriously wounded, injured, and ill, getting them back into adaptive sports. But what I was craving was the ability to get out there and do something. Particularly at that time in my life, the world was about talk. Everyone was talking. Media, sound bites, podcasts, all the rest, but there wasn't a chance to get out there and show what I can do with it. I was just talking about what I could have done or did do or could do in the future. So I developed this. And the Veteran Games literally is veterans getting back in teams, teams of eight, plus two reserves, and doing a section. Section, exactly. You know, the basic fighting brick. And doing mini military missions. So this weekend you'll see, you know, teams line up, do a hundred-meter obstacle course, but they have to do it with these stores and equipment and with these technique and teamwork rules. So if you just physically ug through it as fast as you can, you'll get the fastest time, but you'll lose because you didn't pay attention to detail of the mission requirements. There's a casual evacuation mission with a targetary shooting competition. There's an amphibious assault thing, you know, and have tailored this just like what I did my last job in the military running the selection course, with those little technique and team points to really require people to work together, problem solve. They received the mission brief right before it, all that good stuff. And having done this now for four years and had the same teams, the same five teams who started year one being here with the 12 teams that we have this weekend, seeing them just change. You know, last I remember last year we do this at the end of the 100-meter obstacle course, there's a 10-foot wall that's 3.4 meters or whatever it is. And you have to do like the team of eight drill or team of four drill that we're taught, you know, day one, week one military training. And I was standing next to this wife and kid on the sideline, they're like, How did daddy learn to do that? You know, and people coming back saying, Oh, I couldn't even remember I still knew how to do that, you know, and hearing the media saying, How do they know how to do that? Like these are the basic, and that's one basic little thing that everyone within our community knows how to do, but doesn't get a chance to show it, doesn't get a chance to remember that they can do these things. And just seeing the confidence that builds from that, the relationships that build from them doing it together, and have them then go and train with each other once a month or whatever it is in between. Dude turned up here, you know, hadn't left his house, you know, for more than a couple of days or whatever. You know, next thing the team's coming to get him out because he's in depression. This dude who last year was 120 kilos and this year is 90 kilos from training up. Like it's small things, bro, and it's stuff that I need running this to help me restore faith in the goodness that is out there when we when we just put up and shut up and let our actions do the talking.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

I want to interject there. You said it's small things for the individuals that you're giving purpose to, that's huge, man. Like someone to come from 120 kilos down to 90 because they're training purely for this, that's massive. Yeah, yeah. For someone's team to pull them out of their home because they're in a depressive episode, that's huge. Because it doesn't matter whether you're a veteran or not, most individuals don't have that level of support. Yeah. So what you're creating is massive. Yeah, it's huge, man. And that's hats off to you. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

And look, there's an amazing team to it. The the fantastic part for me was, and even part of this journey, you know, in in Australia, you can't fucking ring your own bell, but it's one thing that I've observed is like this was literally a plan on a page. I got the Royal Commission report, I got what I was feeling and what I craved. And I'm like, this is what I think is a solution to that problem. And particularly after doing it the first year, and it's a two-day event. The finals is a two-day event. I think you need that two days to wear people down, get them to that point of physical vulnerability where some emotional authenticity comes out and all the rest. Uh yeah. And it just even breaking down some of those barriers of comfort that we otherwise have in civic life. And for then at the end, you see people come up to you at the end of the two days with glassy eyes, and they'll be the person who was standoffish at the start who looks at, you know, oh, sandbags and jerry cans. Great, we're back to this in a paddock, and be like, I love it. The nostalgic, strong dudes who like dude, like I didn't know I needed this. I didn't realize what's happening here. Like, I'm bringing back a team next year, and they've done it and doing it, and you just see this spark, this fucking magic, this sparkle in the eye. And um, yeah, man, it's really nourishing, and it's what I need selfishly from a nourishing point. But it's so much and it's just great getting back around like-minded people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Well, that's the thing, and it obviously it brings you back to your military days and obviously being an you know an officer, commander. You know, you're establishing that environment within those teams over you know, over in two commando, but yeah overseas as well. So, what you're trying to do is obviously bring that into that world, especially with the veterans, because we know what veterans are like I'm a veteran, you're a veteran. We understand what you know, there'll be days where someone calls up, oh mate, I don't feel like coming out. Oh bro, I'm having that day today. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

For awareness, we're on the sunny coast, it's raining cats and dogs. I had a crew walk off site because it's too wet, trying to erect this arena at the Sun Coast, Sun Coast Stadium. And that's what I love is stepping it up. And again, showing people what we can do as veterans, you know, exactly. But yeah, it's it's a mission. And look, for you guys coming up here to support it, I know it's gonna be awesome. I know you've got such great support in the community, and just having heavy hitters come along to don't support me, don't support the veteran games, just come and support the veterans, you know. And that's what I love. The veteran games I built, so the charity's veteran support force, but the veteran games is a project where I go to RSLs, I go to any veteran organizations. I'm like, don't even sponsor us with money, sponsor a team to carry your banner to come in and compete. Because you know better than most, the veteran community, mate, is damned if you do, damned if you don't. Everyone is like competition and comparison. I'm like, the veteran games is a platform, bring your flag and come and step up and be recognized. Work as a team. Yeah, but some people still can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, who are the veterans? Like, where were these veterans coming from? Are they all from all units?

SPEAKER_03 11:56

And mate, so we did uh this year we stepped it up. We did a Heats uh on the Gold Coast for Water Parkland and the Veterans for Youth, they're a veteran organization that help youth, believe it or not. Um they won that, so they're sponsored to attend. We did one up on Darwin on Robertson Barracks with one brigade and one combat engineer regiment, first combat engineer regiment, one CER won that, and then Mad Snakes on a Plane, which is the local Mad Snake Veterans Cafe that they all trained up. They've also been sponsored. So we've got two teams from there. Uh, we did an UK expedition event this year over in the UK. Oh, I saw you were doing that.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Mate, so good. And like we talk about that Spark. The um what were they called? They're now called the Veterans Can Warriors. They they won that Heats event and they've like fundraised £30,000 for the whole team of 10 to travel down here and compete. And mate, they're using LinkedIn like Facebook, it's hilarious. But like there's a dude on a worksite he's found a bar doing chin-ups. They went down to a creek line that's full of water and they're all going through it. You know, they're putting these training videos of them together. You know, they won, I think it was $5,000 from Valhalla Tactical as a prize. They went and split it up into two $2,500 prizes and went and gave it to two other veteran groups in the UK. And that's what I'm saying. Like, you see, I just know there's this spark. And once we we set that fire, like the dudes are running with it, and it's awesome to see. We also have a team coming from the US, um, Combat Recovery Foundation. Our plan is to take it over to the US next year, and they're sending a team over here. Yeah, they're based out in Loveland, Colorado. Yeah, um, about now north of Denver. Yeah, and getting the model sorted here in Australia so we can take it to the US. So as when we do this. Make it your world games. Well, it's just cool, it's veterangames.com, mate. When I first acquired that URL for $12,000 back in 2023, it was always going to be an international event because I knew from my time, deployed with the US, UK, Canadian, and NZ guys, like we deploy as a fire-by's community as coalitions to kill people. We need to come back together as those coalitions to help save and support people. And particularly for me, the pessimistic um, you know, why do we even need a military or veterans um stigma that a lot of Australia has from the blissful ignorance we have could be so much well supported, better supported by what they have in the US. And it's not the same levels, but by cross-pollinating some of that experience for our veterans, hopefully we can help our veterans feel a little bit more accepted, understood, and celebrated as well. So that's the plan. Bring them all back together. That's awesome, man. Take it to the US, where you know, this weekend you'll see the guys start off, go over an A-frame, save it casually, then shoot these optical rifles to do that. In the US, I can land a helicopter, go over this, and then lie of fire, shoot it, and do all the rest. You can do all the rest. And that's what I want to do. I want to step up the um complexity of the veteran games to actually truly show off some of the true skills and capabilities that unfortunately we can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

It's not uh it's like those SWAT games. You never seen those SWAT ones in the US or divine stuff. But they're and they're all very like they're all very fitness focused to me.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

It's the problem solving tactical pieces. Of course, yeah. That's the fun part, really. Yeah, yeah, really turning up. So like, yeah, you can be where they that's like where they go up the ladders and stuff. That's incredible. It's amazing watching some of it. But I want to like I want to turn it up and make it more complex in the problem solving and communication and leadership piece.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Well, it's cool, man, because at its core, right? What you do within the veteran community is you rebuild that sense of community, right? Yeah. And as a Civi, like I've always said it to Maddie quite often, like learning more and more about the veteran community, it seems awfully tribalistic. So many people have little quarrels with this guy because they did that while they were over there and they did this.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

What you're doing is giving them a platform to come back together and hopefully rekindle relationships that could be lifelong if they got over that minute issue that had occurred during their time in.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

And that's for Australia now, like right now, we need unity, especially within veteran community and people supporting veterans more than anything.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

And it makes them put up or shut up. Exactly right. That's what I love. Like you've got to show up, essentially. Any of us can do this and fucking gob off from the sidelines. Yes. Not as good as you, but any of us, but as you know, the our country and the world is full of talk. Yes. And what I love for this, people can heckle from the sideline, but unless you're in there doing it, yeah. It's like put up or shut up. And that's what this is about. And I hear people bitching and carrying on the sidelines, and then they get in there and do it, and they're like, book. I get it. There's a real litmuses. Well, mental health 101, how do we bring people to live in the moment? You know, anxiety, depression, thinking forward, thinking back, all the rest, which in the moment, focus on solving a problem, also under physical duress, these are the trigger points that we need for healthier and happier people. And like you said, mate, reassembling the tribe and the community through a higher purpose. You know, the one thing that we don't have in this country at the moment is a higher purpose. And I've said this 4,000 times. If without a higher purpose, the war, sorry, without a war outside the wire, the conflict comes within. Without a higher purpose, people will find purpose. And too often it's turning against each other. And the art of leadership is uniting people with a higher purpose and a true authentic purpose that inspires them at an intrinsic level. So we're doing that at a micro level, but at a macro level, mate, absolutely. It's like, how do we get people to work together by providing them with a higher purpose? And if we can put physical outcomes, problem-solving elements to it, that's how we bring them into the moment and help them in that mental health journey.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

What about the cost? Like, this is obviously that's not me. It's not a free thing it's not a free thing. There's only there's only so many photos you can sell. Do you know why? Do you know why? That wasn't the past. That wasn't the past.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Oh, that was a joke about my Heston Russell was caught taking a photo holding his erect penis that a judge. Do you want us like doing a legal case where your lawyers go say, hey Heston, just so you know, last night we had last night we had to go and review the photo, so the whole team has seen your photos. Only for the female bar should say, and you should be proud of like even better when we were like uh because that was released just before the election, even better when you're on like the pre-polling thing and a lady older than your mother comes up to you saying, I didn't know about you until I saw those photos, and I'm voting for you because of those. Mate, the cost is huge. Yeah. And uh shout out Chockey is blushing. I think I think that's blushing. I've never seen such a dark man blush so red. Um shout out to Veterans First Consulting who have ponied up to be our presenting sponsor and allowed us to do this. Like we literally, the last three years, we were out at the Numman Bar Valley at a mag an amazing purpose-built location. This year we went and bought and built obstacles to put in two 40-foot containers to transport Gold Coast, Darwin, and here on the sunny coast. And we wouldn't have been able to do that without their support. That's huge, man. And you know, there's been a lot in the media about you know, um advocates being paid this, that, and the other, and not a lot being on how much they're actually these guys, Veterans vs. Consulting, are investing back into this. And I have their back equivocally for unequivocally for that. The cost is huge, and uh, particularly uh one of those fascinating parts we talk about is going from working for a for-purpose organization in the military to a for-profit life outside. Yeah, and uh, you know, even if you're a charity or whatever, it's been so fascinating seeing people just flocking to you for the money and just squeezing costs out of you and all the rest. But hiring the stadium, we're live streaming it. We're live streaming the whole event this weekend. Wow, massive costs, yeah. Wow, like video um like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars for this event. And you know what? I love that because one, the cost on the impact we're having for just those small examples I told you, now magnified to the 120 competitors we're having, plus families and all the rest, um, plus you know what we're helping to demonstrate that veterans can do, etc. etc. It's worth it. Um, the sad part for me is that or this is part of it. I've been so frustrated the last four years that we haven't got government buy-in, we haven't got the big corporates, the big banks, whatever. But nearly every single one of our sponsors come from a veteran-owned business, a veteran contact. Yeah, you know, uh, it's been awesome seeing the commercial and corporate village assemble to support it as well. And they're actually sponsors and donors who care, as opposed to just simply want the jersey on their wall.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

You think of it this way, right? Let's say the government bought in, they gave you a grant, or they started saying like we'll get behind it for X amount of years. Yeah. I agree that they should, but let's say someone competes a questionable veteran, something goes wrong and they pull it. Yeah, then you're stuck in this limbo without the funding there. So essentially what you've built, in my opinion, is far stronger and better long term. It shows obviously the government have no interest in helping veterans, which we've seen time and time again. Yeah. But you're actually building something from your community as a whole, yeah, which is powerful.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

No, and I'm I'm with you, mate. My my frustration comes from what we could be doing. Of course. And what's it called? Comparison is a theft of happiness. And I just live in this terrible world of comparison where I see other organizations, uh, you know, like Invictus is great at what it does. $10 million of funding over three years. Yeah. $10 million of funding over three years.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

And um there's an there's an international Invictus once every two years. Uh, now they've stepped up literally on the same weekend as us, an Invictus Village thing over in Perth. I've asked them from year one to collaborate with us, but anyway, we don't have Prince Harry's royal backing and all the rest, but we are targeting those people that the Royal Commission said were the highest demographic, killing themselves. If I was even able to acquire one million dollars a year in guaranteed funding for the next three years, it means that I could hire a full-time team. So my team is me, my EA ops manager Katie, and a bunch of casual staff. Because you can imagine, I am too afraid to full-term hire people when we are fundraising right up until the point of running this event, and then have to go straight back into are we able to, like at the end of this year, between the end of this event and the end of this year, my job is to raise enough funds to be able to secure that we can at least do one event next year, let alone the rest. And we, like I said, we've amassed a great group of sponsors that are still with us. But if we want to grow and scale this, you know, that's where it comes from. And for me, it's having the predictability to know I can hire a team of people to do the job. That's the shit that keeps me up at night. And I'm sure you guys know the worst type of stress I've ever felt in this world is financial stress. 110% the worst. And the clarity that comes from not having that cortisol in you and being able to guarantee, especially in this climate, mate, I can't I'm not gonna hire anyone like unless I can guarantee them the next two years.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Because you could be giving them a golden ticket, and if anything goes sideways, you then take it away from them and you feel horrible as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

The first three years of running the veteran games, there were points where I was personally putting money, and I don't say that to do any, like we're in a good place now, we've got good people come on board, but I remember what that was like. Yeah, and I had yeah, I had two full-time people relying on me, and I will never ever be in that position again. So, yeah, it's an interesting place. And look, you just learn throughout life, but fuck it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Hopefully, hopefully, then this episode lands on some ears.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Like, how does someone veteran games.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Like, this is it, like, even from a marketing perspective, through I established this through campaigning for the Royal Commission, but first and foremost, campaigning to retain the unit citation when they want to remove that. Of course, yeah. And I built a database of like 95,000 people. So we have an amazing reach and we're live streaming to this audience and all the rest. Like, we have all the metrics. So they want to get on board, veterangames.com. We have a whole sponsorship prospectus. You have to meet like our um our value set and all the rest. Like from day one, I said we are not taking sponsorship money from any um alcohol brand or any gambling brand. Good. Why? Because the Royal Commission said these were the Two things that were affecting our community the most. Yeah, they do. You know, and if I had done that, then we would have probably been in this place.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

You come back to mental health as a whole, not just the veteran community, gambling, alcohol, and drugs.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

They're the biggest. And this is it. Like, I'm sorry, but we're not going to be the RSL who happily rakes in a guaranteed amount of money, but based off profits from alcohol and gambling. Gambling, yeah. And look, there are some RSL sub branches out there who are fucking amazing and have supported us from day one. Ringwood RSL, they've sponsored straight away from year one, they put the call out. They've sponsored a local team of veterans. One year they actually sponsored two, fully assembled, sending them up here from Victoria. They're coming up here every single year, good to go. Yeah. Um, whereas, as we know, there are others who rake in $200 million a year from a national lottery.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Ridiculous amounts.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Won't even support. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

So sponsors can obviously That's the T. Sponsors can also individually sponsor each team as well.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Mate, if you are a sponsor and you want nothing to do with Heston Russell or the veteran games, but want to sponsor a local team of young veterans and directly help them do it. Yeah. And you can put your their label on your shirt, label on Instagram, whatever. That's what I care about.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

How do they go about doing that? Is that still through your website?

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Through us, through us. And we will link we will link you in directly with a team and you can sponsor away.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Just for the listener, what's it cost ballpark for a to sponsor a team? Or does it depend on how much they need, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Yeah, for example, like for example, uh one of the teams traveling from Darwin, um, yeah, it costs them $19,270 to fully transport that team of 10 here to the Sunshine Coast to put them up, etc., etc. And you can imagine our community is not staying at fucking, you know, I don't know, what's a good hotel? The Ritz Ritz cell to know what a good hotel is. But you know, like they're staying together in Airbnb houses, and you can imagine half of that's the the journey as well together. But so yeah, Northern Territory Government sponsored us this year. Northern Territory Government sponsored us and paid 20 grand for one CER to fly here. And I only know that figure because One C E R being the amazing, like high-integrity people they are, they CC'd us on an email saying, hey, just so you know, this whole trip's only cost us $19,298. How do we refund the $800 or so?

SPEAKER_04 25:50

I was like, lads, go out to dinner.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

That's awesome. Yeah. So it like, and that's traveling from Darwin, you know? Um, there are local teams here to Southeast Queensland, all the rest. Yeah. But mate, this is me. If you want to support our veterans, I will put in the effort to build the platform and raise you up with that. Because, you know, assembling the community, assembling the village is the participants, the families, the friends, the corporates, you know, the businesses and brands. You know, we've got our team, Bravo 6, the guys from Jericho, the owner owns that Jericho brand that's like beard oil. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Judy, here's a story. I have to tell you a story. Uh, last year at the Veteran Games, there's this team called Team Rober, which I love them, but like we had a 62-year-old veteran down to, you know, um, this lovely lady, but she's the most uncoordered person I've ever known in my life. Um, she's literally dangerous, but she's so much fun. And the team, uh Bravo 6, the Jericho guys, they are all big, like they're all guys who served at like six hour hour together. And they have like big lumberjack beards and they're big dudes. And at the very end, we have the tug of war. And we kind of put the teams we knew were gonna go through against the weaker teams to make sure we had the stronger teams to pick in the end. This team Rober of the the beautiful misfits, like held these guys in the sand to almost a stalemate, and like the entire crowd, and like so everyone's around this, like it was just the most incredible underdog journey. And everyone cheers for the underdog, right? Oh, but it was just it was incredible. Like, again, my lovely uncoordinated lady was like just dug in, mate. Like, you know, like she was protecting her cub from a line. It was incredible. And at the end of the Veteran Games, the captain and the owner of Jericho came up to me and he's like, hey, we would like to put together a uh $1,000 prize for exactly this, and we want it to go to Team Robert and we want it to continue on to be awarded to basically that underdog element. Like that's the shit that comes from this. And you know what? Like, instead of being like, you know, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Embarrassed or or too proud about, you know, this, he's like that. Not only is that amazing, but as a veteran business owner, I'm gonna put a thousand dollars to the name to encourage and support exactly that. Yep, he gave it recognition. Mate, yeah, instead of me and me and Sam were just like like this is what the veteran games does. You know, and it's not shouting it from the rooftops. He was just like, hey, we would just love to put our name to a prize to support exactly that because that's what it's all about. That's awesome. I was like, fuck, you know, I get a goosebumps from that. That's what it's all about. And it's beautiful to see that happen in real time, I think. Yeah. So if so head to veterangames.com.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

The long and short of veterangames.com. But if people want to turn up and watch, what's the case? Yeah, tomorrow come on. Sunday, Saturday and Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Come on down to Sunshine. By the time you listen to this, yeah. Have an Amy, you're on it. Um producer Amy. Producer Amy, producer Amy's in the side, blink twice. Come down to Sunshine Coast Stadium. Sunday and Sunday? Saturday and Sunday. Saturday we start at eight o'clock, Sunshine Coast Stadium. Uh, just there, it's like right near Bokarina. I can't pronounce the actual suburb of it, but it's a giant football stadium. You can't miss it.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Eight o'clock, we kick off Saturday with an opening ceremony. Uh uh, and then we go through till about five o'clock, and then Sunday we start at 8:30 and again go through to awards ceremony should be about four o'clock. But you can literally come down and sit in a grandstand, or you can actually come down onto the field to these areas to watch every single event, mingle, meet new characters, handing out your amazing pre-workout with full public liability. Um we got some things for the kids. We got, you know, the Ringers Western crew are coming down, we've got all our merch stuff, we got we've got all this stuff, and we build this village and have some of our brands there and all the rest. So we've got a recovery zone with ice bars and protein and also good stuff. So it's a fun occasion. That's awesome. Um, and yeah, you'll get to see these lads and ladies in action. Yeah. Um, showing what they can do. Um, and just the conversations and the great people. We've got a lot of celebrities coming down, yourselves included. Um, and a lot of them are quite fun. Like, they don't want to be publicized that they're coming, they actually just want to come um and do that. Having said that, then there are those who want to come and demand to talk. And I'm like, your government hasn't sponsored us any money, so you don't get to talk. Yeah, yeah. Which is fun. They probably won't sponsor us again next year.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

But anyway, yeah, yeah, well, that is what it is. But uh definitely head down. Accountability, mate. Check check it all out. Veteran games. Yeah, we're gonna be able to do it to come down. Now, mate, moving forward.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Let's do it. Sorry, I get very excited. Good, you should. You shouldn't. This is yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

And it's obviously getting bigger every year.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

This is the best part about it. It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's trying to find that balance, mate. So next year's our fifth year.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

And I have this grand idea that I don't think we'll do the footy stadium again. The footy stadium is amazing, but for those who are unaware, the amount of like turf protection and all the things you have to do for these A-grade fields, it's the juice might not be worth the squeeze. But for the experience and for the veteran participants to feel valued that they're in a football stadium doing this, that's what it's all about. Yeah. And mixing it up is where it's at. But next year, I want to do a full veteran games festival. Like, I want to be able to have an arena where we can set it all up. But I want everyone, regardless if you're a sponsor or not, if you're a veteran-owned business or brand, I want you to turn up and bring a marquee and set up a whole big village. I want a live performance Saturday night, Sunday night. I thank you for your service. Like food, trucks, everything. Bring it, bring a team you've assembled that week to come and take on the obstacle course or whatever. Perhaps a less full, formal, stringent competition and a celebration of the community. Awesome. Um, and all of our events are dry, no alcohol's allowed. So we might see how we can.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

I'll be there. Yeah, yeah. We'll say we won't see if I renegle that next year.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

But the whole idea for this was to have a veteran expo celebrating veteran businesses and brands where other businesses and corporates and rich people can come down and see what we're doing. Have the veteran games and then finish with a thank you for your service concert where we have a celebration of that. So next year I want to try and put that together. And if you're a business or brand and wants to get involved, head to veterangames.com. Check it out. But it takes it takes a team, it takes a village, and I need the team to do that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah, mate, you're doing well. You're absolutely doing. Yeah, I've been following your journey for a long time now, and mate, you absolutely ability to do this on your platform, both of you.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Of course, man. Yeah. Now political world. Oh, who cares? What's going on, mate? We've got to bring this up. You're down in the you know, Parliament House and just getting shit trying to get shit done. Yeah. So, mate, the story is a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

I'll have a dead donkey on the water.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

So, give me a is is there is it a political horizon on the are you throwing your hat in the rain?

SPEAKER_03 33:25

I am torn between the lack of competence and accountability in this world that I see at the top and the realities of is that a job that I want to do for my long-term health and wellness. I see that place filled with people who are not what Australia should be scraping as the bottom of the barrel to represent us. But are those people who need it? I say jokingly that most of the people I meet in parliament are the kids who were not picked on the dodgeball team and are now back to use that chip on their shoulder for the affirmation, the authority, and all the rest. Prime Minister. And there are a handful of politicians I talk to, yeah, and the rest I'm talking to their fucking staff who came straight out of high school and are hyper-intelligent but don't have the lived experience for me that meshes to form actual education.

SPEAKER_05 34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

So I'm like, I could do a better job. I don't know politics, I just know my work, ethic, my competence, my fast learning, and all the rest. You'd learn. But do I want to sit down there and deal with every second week sitting week, living in Canberra, wearing a suit and all the rest? But hey, it's the higher purpose as opposed to the personal sacrifice. Uh, I have said I would seriously consider and happily run in the next federal election. I put together a party and ran in the 2022 election. And I rapidly learned the difference between popularity and winning votes as opposed to the actual requirement of running a country and governing and doing all the rest. And elections are a game where every single person in Australia has to vote, and the media gets carried away and turns it usually into this whole red versus blue piece.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

And it comes down to on the ground people at pre-polling locations and ballot boxes to get your message out. Unless you have an entire army and resources behind that, your chances of getting in are slim to none. So um I would run, it's just with who and how and the compromises that need to be made.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

But it's on the radar.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

It is, but I don't have a plan.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

If it's meant to be, it'll be as cliche as it is. Well, you have to make it happen too though. Yeah, I agree, I agree. But sometimes things work out for the right reason.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

No, you're and you're spot on, mate. And you're spot on. Yeah. It's like Maddie assisting it. Big black thing in his face. We'll let that one slide through the two. No, no, you're right. And you know what? The thing I learned campaigning wildly for the Royal Commission, beating ABC and all the rest, I was kind of left with so many people um creating distance from me just simply because they were uncomfortable with the uncertainty and with the perhaps aggression and all the rest. And the more that I haven't pushed things, the more they seem to fall into place. So I would love for a party to come up and say, Hey Heston, we want you to run for us, like I had back in these days. Um I'm a member of one nation, I've had those conversations, but they're playing games with me where they're like not selecting their candidates and doing all this. And it's like if you want to you need to set your life up. I don't know, man. Ask Pauline, she'll be there on Saturday. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Jockey's maze with that. There you go. Yeah. Oh, good. I mean, I'm not mace with any politician.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

No, I'm not mace with any of them either. Yeah, but uh Pauline and Malcolm had my back since day one.

SPEAKER_05 36:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Uh they changed it, vote on the spot for the Royal Commission. And again, all I have seen them put actions behind words.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

So they have my respect for that. Yeah. And like I said, if I was going to go back into politics, Pauline and Malcolm and Barnaby, because Barnaby and Lou O'Brien were the two on the floor who changed their vote to help us win the Royal Commission. Yep, um, they are the people I would work with.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

And I don't agree with all their policies and all the rest, but they're people I know I can respect and have open conversations and we've got and we've had plenty. Yeah, very important.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

What would your focus be? What would your like if you had your own policy, what would you bring in to make this just you know, your top two three.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Well, the funnest part about putting together the Australian Values Party, mate, was I sat there with some good people and came up with amazing policies. So, like Veterans Affairs in particular, massive done. Of course. Like, for instance, this is one of my policies. So two of the keys, key issues are like the education system in our country. And you're having, for instance, kids coming out of school, getting degrees and going back and being the teacher. Over here, we have, I think there's a hundred thousand veterans in Australia who are on a cat A pension, which they could get a hundred plus grand a year, you know, with with only just waking up. And the issue is if you then go and work a job, you can actually have that come off your pension. Of course, yeah. So you're incentivized not to work. And what we've learned is that provides people with idle hands of the devil's work, and too often that turns into substances and all the rest. So could you imagine with these incredible community of 100,000 veterans with lived experience and all the rest, saying, hey, if you want to go and become a teacher, we may even subsidize part of your degree. But at the end of the day, if you become a qualified teacher, we'll let you work as a teacher and keep your pension. Regardless, Australia's paying this money, plus we pay this money for this job. You're providing a service where, hey, you can give the educational curriculum to someone, but then bring the lived experience behind it as well. Fast forward to also the struggling things we're having in society with an aging population. Last year I looked after a lovely gentleman, Nick Hobson, DFC AFC, won his distinguished flying cross, flying Hueys in Vietnam for SAS patrols at the age of 24. And then less than a year later, won his Air Force Cross, rescuing people off roofs in the New South Wales floods at the age of 25. He died last year at the age of 81. Um and he nearly died in his little apartment in King's Cross, having fallen over with COVID and no one checking on him for 16 hours, unless I called the police and they came and broke into his apartment and found him. And going through the process of trying to get him out of a hospital, into an aged care facility with $10,000 to his name, needing a $600,000 deposit, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_05 39:20

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Because this dude was living isolated and alone with no living family, and with two friends, one who lived in the Blue Mountains and one who lived elsewhere. Reconstituting purpose and engagement with our elderly population, harvesting the information from them, doing things like, and I can't believe that I mentioned this, but ABC did this show about old people's home for four-year-olds. We still don't like ABC. The gunshots. Hate the ABC. Kids in Kin Gun. Mate, pairing up elderly with our young to help them remain mentally and emotionally engaged and providing them with, you know, that second or third wind in life. Super important, man. Having your assistant teach. So again, same thing. Elderly people get the pension. Incentivized not to work. You know? How about how to be get them into being assistant teachers in schools? Yeah. Getting them into supporting kindergartens. Getting them into supporting youth programs, whereby if you are engaged in a schooling or youth program initiative, you don't lose your pension because you're investing back in. That's a really good idea. Just more trying to get a wealth of experience, you know, draw the loop. Draw the loop, mate. Like this TV show showed, you know, they linked this old person uh in a nursing home in with a kindergarten person. And they did all these physical and mental cognitive tests at the start. And then at the end, and you saw these people lit up. This kid's like, why are you so grumpy? You know, that authenticity the kitty brings out. And the end they're like, this person's like, I'm in this home to die. Now they're like, I have purpose again.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah, well, you're right. Like a lot of a lot of elderly, they end up in homes and that is their last stretch, right? They lose their hope to live. Yeah, they they they think to themselves, well, this is it. I'm not going anywhere else, and they give up. I've watched it with grandparents of mine, I've watched it with family, like family friends, etc. Yeah. They as soon as they're in that home, they think to themselves, food's covered, bed's covered, someone dresses me, someone will feed me if I need, and they give up. Yeah, bro. What you just suggested is actually genius, right? Like I watch my 99-year-old grandmother, she lights up when my kids hang out with her, she does crosswords with them, she teaches them how to do Sudoku, and she's 99, right? So that's the biggest thing. Like it brings them back that sense of, like you said, the second or third win.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

And they just read contributed to the whole thing. It takes a village. Yeah, I went to look, I'm dangerous at knowing the executive summary and running with it. But like I went to India last year for 10 days with friends. And again, I love to dive into the culture of places, and I was seeing, you know, they're so like efficient in their businesses and all the rest. But I kept witnessing and asking them about how they live. And a lot of these places I went to, they basically lived in these three-story houses. Ground level were the grandparents. One, they didn't have to go upstairs, all the rest. Middle level were the parents, and top level were the grandkids. Middle level parents would go out and work, earn the money, and do all the rest. But the grandkids were there helping to raise the kids, and then the kids were helping to look after the grandparents. And this passage of information and knowledge and pass through this ecosystem was there. Whereas then and that was their measurement of success and working in the family business. And the definitions of success included health and happiness on the home front. I look at what we've been convinced through commercial profit or whatever, the definitions of success in the Western world is moving out on your own and setting up your own home. Like the number one people I believe we need to be supporting in Australia are people who choose to have and look after children. Yes. There is no manual on how to be a good parent. But what there is, you know, are grandparents who've at least done it beforehand. Exactly. And helping to reconstitute that as a measurement for success, you know, there's a stigma of like, oh, I've had to move back in with your parents. Go over to India, a country that's going to have the greatest economy in the world and a billion plus people. A measurement of success is living with your parents still and helping the family ecosystem.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

It's the same as China as well. You look you see a lot of Chinese grandparents always with the super young grandchildren, and they pass on all of that experience of the lived experience that they've had to the grandkids. And they remain smart, they're always well spoken, well-mannered. Same with Indian kids as well.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

Passive information, mate. You know, like we're in this housing crisis and getting people taking out, you know, 5% loans and all the debt, as opposed to like, hey, if you choose to live with your parents or your grandparents, we will subsidize this or do like how do we solve social problems with economics and policy? That's the stuff I love. Through to like one of my policies was made, hey, it doesn't have to be the first line used in service, but every bullet and bean and bolt that goes into a military has to be able to be manufactured in Australia. For sure. Because we're a which we island nation. We're an island nation. Yeah, yeah. War breaks out. Like you're gonna keep flying in or boating in, like and we've got the resources.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

I don't know, but we haven't incentivized it, you know? So it's simple stuff like that. And it's just basically saying and even identifying and incentivizing through grants and all the rest. Like every single thing that goes in our military, this is where we can provide it if need be. And we make sure we invest in these business and these capabilities to maintain them, even if we're getting it cheaper up here while we can. Simple shit like that. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Super smart stuff. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

But but for me, what are the problems? How do we solve them once? And I immediately I say this not having a relationship, you know, with a other with a billionaire, not having a relationship with this brand or that brand. You can see where the corruption or influence comes in, essentially. Yeah. Whereas just lay it on the table. Where is the best plan? How do we fix the problem? And that's what I know. Offer solutions. Solutions that fix problem ones. Exactly. And that's what I find so attractive about politics. Yeah. Because that's the part I love. But then you go into the place and you know there's a hundred and fifty senators or whatever it is, is that 150? No, 150 lower house and 70-something senators. I can't remember. I should know this. Sorry. I've been focusing on veteran games. I can tell you about a fucking 10-foot, 3.4-meter wall, but I can't tell. But like the powerhouse, like I walk through there and there's all these party rooms and all the rest. Whereas I go back to my special forces days, mate, I'd bring in all my team commanders and this person, that person, we'd have group planning sessions.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Every party, send in your best expert on defense policy, and let's put out a defense policy that we all agree on is the best. Of course, there's going to be difference on the edges, particularly you've got a relationship with this company, you've got a relationship with this company, the corruption piece comes in. But this is the best one for our people.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

For the people.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Absolutely. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Do you know what the problem is? I see with what you're saying, right? So when you're in the military, obviously lives are on the line. Yeah. The problem is now is if you did that, they only think about the wallet.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

And this is the this is the full purpose for for profit. It's not even if lives on the line, it's like your motivation is achieving the best outcome. Yeah, yeah, of course. And also, like, and this is the part I was saying to you before off camera, like this is a standard I'm willing to put my name to. Yeah. Like I will not, the other ones aren't. I will throw fireballs at this government's last budget where Keo and his team released a crazy set of policies like the five thousand dollar cap and all the rest, and said we will then conduct a consultation process. Yeah. Like, excuse me, sir, Captain Russell, I'm gonna land on the target, find the enemy, figure out how to kill them, and then get back. Approve, and I'm gonna spend all these taxpayer dollars to do that. Are you fucking Serious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But this is the standard we are allowing to be those who are literally putting out a policy that all of a sudden sends this veteran who has one psych and one physio appointment and in three months' time will reach their 5k. They burn it. And is writing me an email saying, Heston, what am I going to do?

SPEAKER_02 46:57

I want inundated myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

The anxiety and mental health issues that's causing those people, like for those who aren't aware, I go to physio like when I choose to, once every two weeks or something, and I'm allowed to catch an Uber there. Let's say it costs $17. And because I'm DVA goal card, I'm allowed to have that paid for. So I get, you can't screen you, I have to get the actual fucking PDF and I upload it to my government of DVA. It takes at least eight weeks for that to get approved and that $17 to get reimbursed.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

In an age of AI where it should be able to say, that's embarrassing, man.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Because you have to select this is my approved provider I'm going to, this is my approved condition I'm having seen. Done. It takes eight weeks for the Department of Veterans Affairs to, in the age of AI, approve a $17 Uber fare. And you're going to tell me that old mate, who needs to see his psych every week when he hits $5k, can then apply to DVA to have that cap increased. Like bullshit. Yeah. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

And we're under the squeeze, is under the squeeze at the moment, obviously, with the cost of living. No, there's going to be a lot of veterans out there with families as well. You know, like then they need that $17 to, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

And that's what that's what that's what kills me. I I have become a lot more um private with my time. I used to jump on every veteran issued that comes through. I get hundreds of emails from all people with all different causes, and I could fly around the country cutting ribbons, but I just can't. But when that budget came out, mate, the amount of people who were literally on their last legs, like emotionally, yeah, man, yeah. Just saying this may be the thing killing me. You're just like, regardless if you have a big fanfare saying we're walking back on it, the fact that you didn't do your job, didn't consider these people, didn't consult, and then try and tell us it's for our best interest, like you've caused trauma to this person. You've literally caused cortisol and all the rest and sleepless nights and them to have an angry outburst at their wife, like all these things. Yeah. And it's just people sitting in a fucking ivory tower who are so detached from the people and think that that's okay. There's no connection to the people at all, man.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Like I even said I did a reel when they walked back on it. I said, okay, great, they've walked back on it, but it shouldn't have even been a fucking thing. It shouldn't have even come to the point where they say we are going to cap our veterans of how much they can get.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

And it's just anger. So anyone who, through incompetence or just blind ignorance or pride, does something that causes harm to someone else's life, like, is what I hate. Yeah. You know, I get it if some people are just incompetent, but that's just a failure. It's gross incompetence.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

But it's just a lack of consideration.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

It is.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

You know, how how do they even sit there at a table and go exactly and you know piss paper slides across the table and $5,000 veteran cap? Like, who sits there and goes, Oh, that's a great idea. We might be able to save $2 billion now.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Even everything we look at with what the government is doing, like you look at all of it, it is gross incompetence or lack of care. 100%. There's no other way to explain it anymore. PM.

SPEAKER_04 49:47

And I love to.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

No, we need a president to lay accountability.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

Because your dad's gonna be messed up. No, no, I wrote Do the voice, do the voice. I wrote no no no.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

I wrote, look, there's no secret, mate. I wrote my book. So the two key issues I have identified in our political system are a lack of real leadership. We've replaced diplomacy and leadership with politics and I fucking misspoke and all the rest. But at the end of the day, it's a lack of accountability. So we currently have a system where the party can elect the prime minister. If you had a president, so we have the governor general. If you had the governor general that was directly elected by the people, he's directly accountable to the people. And with the powers to sack the prime minister or to sack a senator that breaks the law and or pulls the king, like all these sorts of things, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yes. Essentially, if we're not happy with them, they can do it.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

At the moment, you can get elected as a senator and literally not turn up to parliament. Look at and unless you break the law with the condition that has you know for a minimum year's imprisonment, you have to be voted out or choose to not. But literally, that is not.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Look at the stuff she's saying.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

I was implying that without saying her name.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

I'm saying it, I don't care. But I want to run justice, but she's not running against them. They need to be caught out, those type of people, because it's disgusting what they do. But and like you said, the governor general just sits here and just goes, mate, this is it.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

So but the prime minister is elected by the party, and then when comes politics time, you're electing the individual seats, and even though the media runs it like it's Albo versus Pauline, it's not, you know, it's actually individual seats. So for me, and also Australia is an island girt by sea, and we had like um, you know, uh what upwards focus and inwards focus. Like you've got the French system, you've got a prime minister and team, a president and team who are working up and out on international diplomacy. Then you have a prime minister and team that runs the country. I'm not saying it's perfect. Let's look at what's going on in France at the moment. Got it? But there's a proportion of power, and the president at the end of the day is going to be held directly elected, directly accountable to the people. Whereas we don't have that. So I have a whole idea of, you know, even these conversations about Australia Day, this, that, and the other. Australia's suffering from this identity crisis, this lack of purpose. I say this as a fifth-year, uh, fifth generation veteran. My family came to Australia in 1833. Yeah. The first Russell landed in Ben Diem's Land. I think the natural step should be for us to be able to appoint our own governor general, our own president, become an independent country. I'm not talking about republic, but like become Australia and make those decisions as a new democracy. And I think that would actually help us all buy into a higher purpose.

SPEAKER_05 52:21

That's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

But you can imagine, and I've published that in my book, and a lot of people don't believe in all that, but um, that's me looking at how we solve problems once. Um, you know, even look at our political system. We went through federation, we were states, we came to be with the federation. You, your kid can be taught a different curriculum if they live in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria. It is, yeah. You know, our we're on one island, but depending upon what state, you have a different driver's license and you know, all the rest. So there's just so many inefficiencies for a country of 26 million people, which is one state of the United States, yeah, but three layers of government and all the rest.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

So yeah, and you you just spoke it, you know, you brought up a really valid point about Australia not identifying as you know one country. Yeah. You recently criticized stuff that was a protest that was going to happen on uh Remembrance Day. Yeah. Mate, speak about this because obviously this is man, I didn't even know about it until the already told me. There's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

But this is what I hate. Like we're actually giving them air talking about it. I know we need to call it out as well. That's what I'm saying. But the simple fact is like Remembrance Day in particular, November 11th, you know, 11th hour of the 11th day, the 11th month, yeah, you know, when the guns fell silent, uh, is not just a day held insteadfast in Australia. It's so many other countries do it as well. Countries who actually used to fight against each other now all pause on that day.

SPEAKER_05 53:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

Um, and for the simple fact for me that people kids at school, young people at school, don't appreciate that and think it's an appropriate day to protest for starters, I think is demonstrative of the errors in the system. But um yeah, I I just sorry, I lost my train of thought completely.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Fight them all.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

You know, you know what it shows though, like it shows that so many have lived such a cushy life in Australia, they're actually picking on things that they don't truly understand at all.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

That's it. I'm sorry, and people are angry. Exactly. People are angry, yeah. And this is what I said before because they don't have a higher purpose. Exactly. So young people in particular are emotional and angry. Probably not a popular decision, but having lived through that age, I wouldn't allow anyone to run for political office in Australia until they turn 30. No, true. Just knowing you're all about agree. There's some very mature, smart people out there, but there's just this evolution in life that we're even getting younger emotionally and older and yeah, correct. People need something to put their emotional power into, particularly when we are on a beautiful island nation where we don't have the big world problems, we don't have gun violence, we don't have all these things to the levels that nearly every other country in the world has. So idle hands are the devil's work, and particularly when people are in beautiful cities like Sydney, Melbourne, and all the rest and have time on their hands and see things on social media and have this energy and emotion want to put it into something, we don't currently have an agreed patriotic way for them to help us nation build. Yeah. So they turn against each other and become tribes in conflict because our elected leaders aren't bringing the tribes together under one flag.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

It's it's crazy to me, like obviously speaking on civilian level, you two have served under our flag for Australia, right? How do these children or even young people, adults, not understand that while you guys were in, or anyone that is currently in now, you would lay down your life for them just to know that they could live another day. How don't they fucking understand that? Like why even try and protest against it? They just don't care.

SPEAKER_03 55:38

One, they don't know, two, they don't care because they're not empathetic to that, they don't connect with that. I suppose they don't they've never understood it either. They never have to, and they've never had to. And uh school, the curriculum has changes as well. But that's their prerogative. That's also they're they're allowed to do that. Yeah, but where is the rest of society saying that's wrong? You know, why is it us that has to step up and say that's wrong?

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Well, it comes from their parents. It is not the crime, it's the home. It's youth crime, it's the same thing. It's generally home. A lot of those youth crime you know scenarios, it comes from their parents. Their parents are generally criminals as well.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

Sacks of shit. All I've learned is people are projecting or protecting whatever's going on in with them. And these people are angry and they need an outlet and they see what's going on here and they connect with this. And it's easier to be angry than it is to be happy and loving in the emotional world.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

So it's a simple, it's the first reaction that people get, isn't it? Anger when they don't understand how to process things straight away.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

You don't usually want to jump up and hug someone.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

No, you're like, oh fuck this guy.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

Yeah, and it is it, yeah, it is angry world, it's much easier to be that. So I I completely understand where they're coming from, but yeah, there's just a failing at schools, homes, all the rest, and yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Wild times ahead, man. But yeah. Well, that's a really good uh political play right there, mate. No, I'm telling you what, that was not just played your deck.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

That was just you know, but this is it. I fantasize about going into politics from a place of having a staff that I don't have to worry about paying their salary, you know, that I could actually put them to work and not have to worry about winning work for them. Where, you know, I could actually walk into an army base or walk into a department and submit questions and actually get not be blocked out. You know, the amount of work I do at the moment outside of the veteran games is essentially, you know, a whole bunch of what a lot of politicians should be doing. Um and I feed politicians, like when, you know, the government's budget came out, I wrote a policy response. I've written policies, I've written speeches, I've done all the shit behind the scenes for senators and parties and all the rest, and not for anything other than to try and get the best information to them. I have senators call me up or send me emails before Senate estimates asking for my opinions on this and all the rest. To be paid to do that, to not have to worry about the first three levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and others as well, and to build a team, you know, I I will say it. I know that I could get elected for the Senate and have six years to not have to worry about pandering to people to be elected again and build a fucking army of the right people to then go into politics after that. But it's breaking into the target before you can conduct the exploitation. Of course, yeah. And it's for the right reasons, and like I would fucking kick people out if they ever compromise any of those standards. You've got pure intention.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

That's what's that's what's amazing about it, right?

SPEAKER_03 58:15

And you know, could I be corrupted or the rest? It's like I'd be the first person to remove myself from politics if I felt shamed for what I'd done.

SPEAKER_05 58:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

And not because of someone else's opinion, but it's like, hey, I truly did the wrong thing and did the wrong thing intentionally as opposed to made a mistake.

SPEAKER_05 58:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:31

Um, that's Heston Russell speaking here to you in October 2026. But I've been through all I've been through very publicly, from naked pictures to being accused of being a war criminal and gunshots and all the rest, yeah, to kind of figure out who I am and to have that protection of authority and a team and financial stability is just fascinating when I think about what could be achieved and then what so many of these people should be achieving, in my opinion. If they truly get if and everyone has their families and things like that, I get it. It's just my brain doesn't work the same way. And I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

So if you had a magic wand in 90 days for the government to change something, what what would be? That's a mighty good question.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

A genie popped out of the No no is it a wand or a genie? Um I'm trying I'm visualizing. A genie with a wand. I'm a visualiser. Uh voting would not be compulsory.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

Yeah. Voting would not be compulsory. True democracy, you want to engage in it, you can. And we would avoid the situation where everyone is forced to vote and therefore goes into the red versus blue. I'm voting for Alba, even though I'm voting for my local member down in Geelong. Um, step one.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Step two would be. Which leads to false voting as well, because people just go in and tick this and you know why they don't know why it always leads to voting.

SPEAKER_03 59:54

You know, we we are the only Western country where voting is compulsory. Correct. Yeah. Do you know why? Because over a certain percentage of votes, every party gets four dollars or five dollars something per vote. That's right. So governments go to banks before elections and draw out a $10, $20, or $30 million loan based on what they got last year. It is a money making. Of course it is. Sounds like the government. Excuse me. Also, sorry, quickly talking about elections. Everyone wake the fuck up when it comes to election time and stop fucking believing people off their policy promises. Because they can legally rely on it. If that Albo and his team have taught us anything, like there's the election going on in Victoria at the moment. It's like we will cap toll to $30 a week. Yeah. People are voting for what will be as opposed to hold on, what have you done?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

What have we just been through?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:40

Ben Carroll, you stood up and said, How can I look my daughter in the face if I stab my female leader in the back and two weeks later you stabbed her in the back? Yeah.

unknown 1:00:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Like you forgot to pay for your petrol prices, but you're gonna run a state.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

Like they change their position. Done the elbow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:55

Move on. Done. CGT. So people change my position. But it's up to the but it's up to the people, mate. It's up to the people. I've said it 50 times. I've said it 50 times. That's what I don't understand. And I don't understand how these politicians can't look themselves in the mirror. And they said, like, oh, no, if the situation's changed, like, hey, I fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

I was wrong. Exactly. That's what I man. I actually set it on record with Maddie after Bondi as an example. Imagine if Albo came up and said, everything that I fucked up on and my government fucked up on has led us to this point. It's our fault. Imagine if he said that right. I would have shut the fuck up that day and said, you know what, man, that takes sack. Yeah, mate. You know, like Asio let us down, AFP let us down. They all let us down under the guise of the government. Yeah. Imagine if we had a leader that just stood up and said, hey guys, I fucked up. I'm sorry. And we're just going to make it better. And we're going to fix it. We're going to make sure it never fucking happens. Okay, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

This is the difference between the skill that is leadership and the game that is politics.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

Politics, precisely, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Mate, when this phrase came out, I misspoke, or the or we've changed our position. Yeah. It's like, bro, just take accountability. If you knew true leadership, you'll know people will connect with you better if you admit your mistakes. Exactly. If you repeat them, we will hold you accountable. But if you admit, like we stuffed up, this is how we're rectifying this, you know, you'd win people over there.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

It's like old mate uh Warren Pickering from One Nation when they did that big dirt piece on him saying that he was once upon a time an addict of this and that. And then he came out, man, and did a presser and said, that was me. Bro, crushed. Man, hats off, bro. That guy. With his daughter and with his stepson, who's like who stood up for him over their mum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

Like, I wouldn't be the man I am today without Warren. Bam. It's like, also, dude, he then went and served in the army for nine years after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

Precisely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

I feel like that was almost released by One Nation to make Warren. I loved it. I had all my like gay on the fence voter mates in uh in Melbourne during that one. And particularly when Warren finished, like, you know, everyone thinks, you know, the nuclear family is family today, like this is the modern family.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

And I was they were like, Yeah, these guys. Put that on a fucking t-shirt.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

That's right. Yeah. But that's it, mate. And it's so funny. Authenticity. Exactly. And the truth.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Yeah. But isn't it crazy that we're at a place where that's the bare minimum we're hoping for? It's ridiculous, man. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Like you're literally asking for the most basic morals that individuals should be taught to be shown.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

But bro, it's values, it's morals, and ethics what we handle as a society, you know. Basic building blocks. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

So you're giving us one thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

Or you've given us one. Well, yeah, you give us one thing you change. What's the second one you want to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

Oh, there was a second part. You got 90 days for the government. You're the president right now. Maddie really wants to do that. You're gonna build a wall. Absolutely tremendous.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

Bro, I I I I mean, I Daddy Trump. I appreciate it. Takes time to get to this place. You just need to win the trust of the people first. But like going to the referendum uh for Australia to become a truly independent country is something that I would do. Number two. Um yeah. Uh and with that would come the mechanism whereby politicians can be removed. Um, you know, through Which they can be. They can like but you have government, like think of this. Every state and territory has a governor or administrator, and then you have the governor general. Like, there's automatically a group that you would turn into the president and the people who could then provide preside over a council to remove senators or ministers if they'd fucked up and be accountable to that. And then they're directly elected by the people to be fucked up. So um what there was something else. Nah I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

I think that's a really good one. That the holding them accountable is the point they can be removed, like right now. No accountability. None. So regardless of no one can do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

That's it. Regardless of whatever standard you have, they don't care, it doesn't matter. So this is what we learned with ABC, bro. I've literally proven that the ABC won, beat them in the court, federal, the Australian federal court for defamation. Then the motherfuckers went and edited footage, added six gunshots. Also, they zoomed in, circled two people. Everyone's like, oh, it's just an editing error. They were allowed to appoint a former head executive of their news branch to come in and do an internal review and write that it was an editing error. What? And then Matt Keogh and the government are like, oh yes, but the ABC needs to be kept impartial, but they have a charter. ABC has learned they can do whatever they want. Exactly. And no one's gonna hold them accountable. And better yet, they're gonna pay and taxpayers' dollar. Like they, Mark Willisie, the same motherfucker who got done for defamation for me and was responsible for that short editing story, released the shit on the Warmore, and then ACMA, the governing body, came and said, yes, they went against their charter and broke these standards. ABC responds saying we disagree with ACMA. Because there's no stick, it's all carrot. So where are we at? Where where it's not a true democracy unless there is absolute accountability. So how do we my whole thing is how do we bring accountability in the system? And also then, how do we demand for our leaders to actually be taught and understand leadership? Yeah, yeah. So I'm leadership. And the best part is I think anyone and everyone should be able to be elected into government, which is democracy, but there has to be a formal training mechanism. Back in the day before you guys are doing podcasts, I did a podcast. Um, and I interviewed Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard back when fucking things were pleasant and good. And I asked them, what formal training did you have to be prime minister of this country? And none. They received media training after media training after media training, and Julia Gillard told me, you know, they appointed her a yoga instructor when she became prime minister, which I love, looking after that side of the house. But they haven't been taught, you know, the basic, you know. I hate this because I had to spend four years down the road from Parliament at AdFort RMC learning the fundamentals of leadership and planning before I was allowed to command a platoon of 30 people in the infantry. And they fucking look after the customers. And we have no professional planning or leadership training course apart from mentoring from other politicians and all the rest. We're just breeding this system of incompetence. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

It's like we look at Albo, he's got 59 advisors, man. As a perfect example, 59 fucking advisors, which would cost the taxpayer a mozza.

unknown 1:06:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

And they still can't teach him how to be a leader.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's wild. Because the focus has become on the game, the media soundbite, all the rest. But a professional training system where everyone has to go through it. 100%. Yeah. And you know, that can be assessed by you know whoever. But yeah. And if they fail, get the fuck out. Yeah. Well, and this is the hard part. I get this the hard part. Like they're meant to they're meant to be elected and all the rest. But like, for instance, you're not allowed to receive any form of ministerial appointment unless you pass this. You can be an elected member, but you can't have a ministry. Yeah, that sort of shit. You know, just it makes perfect sense, man. Taking it to the next level. Exactly. Such a mediocre level, mediocre level. How do we increase performance?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Yeah, yeah. Just don't take it too far like North Korea. Yeah. We don't need any of that shit. Tell you what. Are you dead? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

I heard about that the other day. No, that motherfucker's got clones.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

I don't feel like getting attacked by North Korea. I'm not making it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:49

Yeah, leave veteran.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Please leave veteran unit. It's not the movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

Send a team. Send a team.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

The license. Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

I'm out of here. No comment. Mate, Esther. What's next on the list? We're done. Yeah, no. What are we doing? Yeah, no, we can get going. We can get going.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Who can we throw some fireballs at? I mean, whoever we want. No, I talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:20

My biggest issue, accountability piece. Uh the two shit. Oh, we did this. Hang on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

We've got a bit of robotics going on. This is picking a larger.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:30

Pick and a larger. I love that. That's a real right there. Pick it a larger. What is that? A PowerPoint? Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. Gangster. No, that's good. What's next for you guys? Mate, well, we're going to start doing debriefs together.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

How often how many of these have you done? A couple now. Yeah. We've done a couple now. You also be the first to go out though. Yeah. So that's the first announcement. You are the first. The first announcement that we're doing them together. I've also another announcement.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

I'm a co-owner of Zero Limit Supplements as well. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:01

So uh tell me more about this. Could you guys uh thank you for coming down? Our competitors are all gonna get one of their pants. They're gonna be are they gonna have heart palpitations? No, it's not that strong. No, no, they won't sleep.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:11

It's yeah. If they take it at 7 a.m. No, I'm joking. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's not overly done, man. It's a pre-workout. It is a pre-workout drink.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:21

It's a pre-workout.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

It's a pre-workout drink.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

And you've been drinking it during this podcast at seven o'clock at night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

And I've been up since like three this morning. But you know, the whole reason why, you know, I come up with this because obviously the podcast, like yourself, you've come on the podcast and the inspiration that you give to people that listen to it, you know, and like you said, there's heaps of cops that reached out and boris, and they they love it. And that's the whole point. I wanted to manufacture that and put it into a supplement and continue on with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

That's a good brand story. Is that on the label? I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

It smells like that's what it is. Yeah, good. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Get it can. And I personally I got involved because I believe in I believe in Maddie for one. Yeah. Because I've seen what he's built. But for two man, I understand how important fitness is when it comes to keeping obviously fit when you're a first responder or veteran, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

But for mental health, arms in the in the in the business. The mental health piece as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

The mental health piece as well, man, it's huge, right? So if we can make this as big as Ben Hur to push people into fitness, and obviously for first responders as well, to stay fit. I was actually speaking to a paramedic in my gym the other day, right? Young, young fella, fit as a fiddle. And he was telling me how many cops and paramedics he sees that are well and truly overweight, unfit, and just can't do their fucking stuff. Exactly, exactly. Right? And that's like like Maddie always says, like, don't be a sack of shit, don't be a liability, do something, right? And and it goes across the board, whether it's in whether you're in construction, whatever the fuck it is. Yeah. Just don't be a liability to your team. So I truly believe in the message. Yeah, good. And you go further winning your team, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:50

Yeah, absolutely. So the goal is to make it as big as well. No, it's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:52

Biopowers combine. Big difference between uh uh being mates and having good conversations and entering into business together. Yeah. Are you two gonna stay friends? We're not gonna see it. Fucking I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Yeah, I resent. I resent. Love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

He's like realistically to the listener, he's like my big brother. So I'm happy to learn and meant be mentored. Love that. He's been in business for years. Yeah, good. So I'm it's a learning curve for myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

Okay. And you you know what it's like, like when you come together with a like-minded human being. Oh, I do. Like you just you just connect, yeah. And we say that it's about ideas. Because I've been through business for a very long time now, and you have as well, you know, outside of the military. And you understand the people you mix with, there's some people you just don't. Yeah, some people have the same ideas, but you just don't mix, you know, chemically. It's it just, you know, profit. We we get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

Profit changes things, 100% it does, 100%. And then we we we've always come up with the idea. I feel like you're two are good at having open conversations. That's probably a thing, it's a simple.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

We're like in a relationship, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Yeah, my missus is actually jealous of him, to tell you the truth. We two talk every day.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

So many comments, but that'll be around two. Um what other stuff?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:50

Mate, we'll send them right back at you.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

What other that's what you think. Um I'm blushing. Uh, what other products are coming?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

Mate, we've got a pre-workout.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

We've got the roadside bomb. Roadside bomb? Probably. Is that we did have another one called War Crimes, but it was just a little too much. Oh, that's right. Someone messaged me that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Yeah, so we're too we're we're tweaking.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:10

It wasn't too much, it was just yeah, it was just is it needed?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were pushing the envelope just to get it. Just call it not guilty.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:18

But war crimes have a nice ring to it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

We're definitely working on a few other things, but stay tuned. Yes, we'll send you a whole bunch. No, I love it. I'll look for it. Can you try it?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:26

Hopefully, I have a pretty incredible red games next year. Sponsorship site. We could. Job's on. Job's on. We'll do it. I feel like we can turn a stand into do your pre-workout and then go on a bazer like a rampage.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Sponsor teams or whatever. Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:38

Don't do it. And this is this is it, mate. Like, you guys have a platform, like build a team. Who wants to come and be on the Zero Limits team or the big chockey team or the whatever you want to call it team? Yeah. Zero Limits.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

I want to see Maddie fucking do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:49

Hey.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:50

Tomorrow, come down. We might call it a lunchtime.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:53

You've just been called out, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:57

He can step over the three and a half.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

Mate, what else you got? You got anything you want to say? Yeah. What's what's your final thought? Hessen Russell's Prime Minister's final thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:06

Um PM.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

PM. President, sorry, President El Presidente.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:10

Likeability is not leadership, and it all should come back to purpose. And if only we had more competent people who know and understand people, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today. So for me, it's like, what can you do in your circle to find and affix yourself to high purpose and inspire people around you? Hey, like this is what I love. I go into corporates and talk about leadership. Like motivation is extrinsic, you know, carrot, stick, whatever. But it's that people who have served and people who have families and all the rest. It's when you tap into that intrinsic motivation where you're actually inspired to do something. That's that inspiration that pushes you past fear and danger and all the rest. And um, we were talking about those young kids and why they're angry to go out there protesting all the rest is because they don't have that inspiration or they're drawing that inspiration from evil forces, from from from dark stuff, from dark that's a dark force. I got it wrong. But you get it. So I think for me, it's do what you can to provide that motivation, inspiration, higher purpose in your circle, in your world, because without that, tribes turn into conflict and we attack each other.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:19

Um and the one thing I learned from campaigning for the Royal Commission to going down and door knocking in parliament, like the power is with the people getting people together, having a platform, providing them with a call to action. Go to veterangames.com, go to Zero Limits, like join a community that you are aligned on values.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:40

And when the time comes, take action. Be that, write an email, have a conversation with someone, not to win it, but to engage them in logical dialogue.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:49

Be active.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:50

That's it. Be active. And I get it. Being active, you don't have to turn off to rally. No. Like that's you don't have to have a platform like mine.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

You don't have to do what we do, but be active. Have the conversation. 100%. Um yeah, that's it. Man, I want to end on a note if we are wrapping up. Something really cool that I've gauged from this whole conversation with you. You you touched on real early that you went through a real dark time. What you've built with veteran games is what you needed then. Yeah. And that's really fucking cool, man. Yeah, 100%. Like it's a it must be a big full circle moment for you because you see people coming out of dark spaces and you're like, fuck man, like I could have used this, but instead you're building it for others.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:24

Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

The world got you.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:26

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

Unreal.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:27

Yeah. The world got very lonely. And even setting this thing up, there's parts where I felt like I didn't have want to have the response to setting it up, and I want to just get a team together and crush it. Yeah. And like laugh at each other and fall over and have fun. Um, but yeah, no, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:39

Laugh at each other and fall over.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

Oh silly view. You know what just came to my mind? Jitterbug. When they're in the gym.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:46

Why did you have to make a game? We went the whole podcast without a gauge.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

And it was just a I'll just part of it. I'll just pitch you as big.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:55

By the way, when I met these two men, I gave them both hugs, and I they both held on longer than I did for the hub. Yeah, you hug your brothers.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Look at those brothers. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:05

That's the running joke. People are like, oh, look at those biases. Like, mate, they're just good for hugging these days.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

That's all they did for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:09

Back in the day, they're a good choker.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Take that, you fucking bastard.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:13

Mate, you got some. Yeah. Anyway, we're sitting here flabbergasting each other. You both got big arms. I actually saw you guys recently did that um photo with Ben Robert Smith. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

Maddie fucking makes him look normal, so I am little. Yeah. Yeah, I'm wide. Yeah. I am little chalky next to Ben. But Ben said I'm a big cunt, so listen here.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

You can't use that word. Yeah, you can. No. Amy, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:37

I'm still I'm never comfortable with that word.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:41

Yeah.

unknown 1:16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:44

Just blinking again. The whole body blink. Gentlemen, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:48

Man, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:48

Love to bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Vet games, 24th, 25th national final, Sunshine Coast Stadium. International Finals. Bock Arena. Is it Bock Arena? Is it? It's a new suburb they built.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:57

Literally the Sunshine Coast Stadium. And then for those who are unaware, Saturday afternoon across the road on the water course, we're doing an amphibious assault task. Yeah. That's fucking fun. This is the new introduction to this year's Veteran Games. So come on down. At the moment, one thing, we have plenty of water.

unknown 1:17:15

Good.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:15

That's all you need. Yeah, come on down. Have a look. Otherwise, if you're at home, please live stream veterangames.com slash TV. We have Veteran Games TV set up veterangames.com slash TV. Awesome. Gentlemen.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:26

Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you, President. What's your sign off? No, President. You know mine.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:31

Oh, if you don't like it, get the fuck out of here. You change it. You're like, let me know what you're doing. Let me know what you think in the comments. Hey, let us know what you think in the comments. And don't hold back.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:43

Have a look at this. Is that what you do? What's this? It's all started. Anyway, fuckers. Almost like your flamboyant run. Remember that you were talking about that? He spoke about it on his podcast. You said you're in a gunfight and a little flick. No, you did not. He did. He did. Oh, you did. Were you waving too? Let's finish on this. Oh, you want.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:04

You gotta tell the crowd. There is certain footage that continues to be played.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

In a gun in gunfight.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:09

So we're in we need to see. We're in this fucking feature. We'd been there once and got a mid-good gunfight. So we went back there. We were back there. We literally later on the deployment went back there. Then at the very start of the mission, I had my pistol shot off my hip, all this sort of good stuff. And we got into some very close quarter engagements. It was proper good stuff. And there's this footage where we actually get arced up by a machine gun straight down this alleyway, and my J attack and one another stop and shoot. And but we're kind of in the line. So I want to go around for a flank and I need to run in front of their weapons. So I'm like, stop, stop, stop. Then I run in front. And I was carrying my 417. So I carry it in one hand while I run. Anyway, I ran and the footage, the footage. My footage shows my hand doing this. And I was still in the closet. This was 2012, etc. etc. The boys knew, brother. No, they did not. Because what I've learned is no one ever picked up on that until I told them. Whereas I saw this footage, and the first thing, even we then ran, we killed the dude. Like it was all very close.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:07

And a lot of people here I am running with one hand and we killed the dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:12

Who was trying to kill us? Uh but a lot of it's funny for me, and this is a great like self-review, interesting part of just why I have this appreciation of people who struggle with things like sexuality. Is my focus was I was petrified. People would see that hand wave of me and think of me in the negative con negative connotation I held homosexuality to, as opposed to blah. Um, I was fuck, I was mask as fuck, but I still had this little thing. Anyway, um, as opposed to like, no, I was in a fucking gunfight. Yeah, yeah. It fucking doesn't matter, no one gives a fuck. I've never run like yeah, it was just it's just so funny that that's where your mindset is. Yeah, and it's a fabulous mental exploration of where we put stigma and fear and all the rest. 100%. Um now I'm just like, fuck yeah, that's fucking fast. Fast as fuck, boy. Yeah, it's called fucking. You learn that in selection, if you're in selection, no. It's in page five of the commando officer school, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:12

Yeah, no, no, no, no, special forces school.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:14

That's that'll be taught one day in some fucking wax on wax office you're out. Southeast Asian fucking special forces pam called the Heston run.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:22

Anyway, two pages faster.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:24

It's been a pleasure, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:25

Well, mate, thank you. Thank you so much, bro. Ciao.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:28

Awesome.